Why Female Lawyers Make Less Money
And not just female lawyers. I happen to be one of those women who negotiates, and pretty well, I think, instead of just taking whatever deal is being offered. I've successfully sold my own column and a number of other projects, and I tend to work as a team with my agent and/or lawyer to strategize what we want and what we can get.
But, from time to time, I talk to women who tell me that they've just gotten a job, and who never think to ask for more money or certain perks (within reason, of course). Nothing. Nada. They just take exactly what they're given. In other words, they start off meek (we could call this "meek-qual pay"), showing their employer, even before day one, that they aren't in the habit of playing tough or "thinking outside the box." I have to wonder: Are these some of the women complaining that they don't make as much as men?...men who are generally more likely to negotiate for more, from everything I've read and heard.
In this vein, Debra Cassens Weiss writes in the ABA Journal about a female lawyer's advice to other female lawyers seeking advancement: Study Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz:
"Dorothy was a true leader," writes Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe employment law partner Patricia Gillette in a post for the Am Law Daily. "She identified the tasks at hand, formulated a plan, and overcame obstacles to reach her goals: a brain for the scarecrow, a heart for the tin man, and courage for the cowardly lion."But Dorothy had a failing, much like many women lawyers. "When push came to shove, what did Dorothy ultimately ask for herself from the Wizard? Nothing," Gillette says. Too many women lawyers are like Dorothy, asking for no credit, reward or recognition, she writes. "And thus, no one knows what she has done and no one thinks of her as a leader."
Gillette says women need to take a more active role in managing and advancing their careers, in part by courting clients, socializing with firm leaders, touting their capabilities and pressuring firms to expand leadership opportunities for women.
Actually, I disagree on that last point. I think leadership opportunities should be expanded for all who earn them, whatever kind of genitalia they have in their pants.
Negotiation and speaking up not your strong suit? Well, boohoo. I have ADHD, and organization and concentration aren't mine, but I work really hard to compensate. As did Frank Ricci, who has dyslexia, but studied his white ass off to pass the firefighters' written exam.
A couple books on negotiating: Negotiation Genius: How to Overcome Obstacles and Achieve Brilliant Results at the Bargaining Table and Beyond and A Woman's Guide to Successful Negotiating: How to Convince, Collaborate, & Create Your Way to Agreement.)
One more I forgot: Ask For It: How Women Can Use the Power of Negotiation to Get What They Really Want.
Good advice for everyone - but difficult to do in a protracted economic downturn.
My guess is that many - especially those with families to support - will accept "meek-qual" pay over the next year or two at least.
As the Jewish sage Hillel said:
If I am not for myself - who will stand for me?
And if I'm only for myself - what am I?
And if not now - when?
Ben-David at July 14, 2009 2:06 AM
If it's true that women aren't taking credit for their work, aren't developing clients, and aren't generally in the habit of "playing tough", then I have to question whether they are really capable of doing the best work, both for the firm and for the clients. I certainly wouldn't want someone who's incapable for standing up for herself to be in the position of standing between me and legal harm. And it's an integral part of partnership to develop clients. If you fail in that area, you fail as a partner.
Robin at July 14, 2009 5:27 AM
Good leaders don't take credit for themselves, they build up their subordinates and their boss. Granted, Ms. Weiss was not writing about how to be a good leader, but how to compete with sociopaths. I favor the naive approach: it's better (for the organization and for oneself) to be a good leader in a lower position than to be a bad leader in a higher position.
Pseudonym at July 14, 2009 6:52 AM
Anecdotally, I hear that female trial lawyers in England earn more than their male counterparts.
The explanation I've heard is that to get there, they've worked hard and they can get an edge when a sexist judge is hearing a case.
Apart from the negotiating issue you mention, the financial cost of taking a break for child-rearing has got to be very steep.
But this sort of comparison only makes sense if we see jobs as a form of warfare.
A woman who takes a well-paid job in order to have the financial means to have an interruptable career and have children is probably not obsessed with whether she can make as much in her lifetime as another colleague.
A man who took three months off every year to pursue some private interest would likely not make as much as colleagues who burn themselves out either.
Antoine Clarke at July 14, 2009 6:56 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/14/why_women_lawye.html#comment-1658299">comment from Antoine ClarkeGreat to have you drop by, Antoine! And the childcare thing is often not or not usually factored in by women who complain that women make less money.
Amy Alkon at July 14, 2009 7:08 AM
Dorothy did ask for something - a ride home. She was just too dumb to know the plane ticket was already in her (stolen) shoes.
COOP at July 14, 2009 8:15 AM
"And it's an integral part of partnership to develop clients. If you fail in that area, you fail as a partner."
It is actually the primary part. This cannot be stressed enough to young people entering accounting, law, consulting firms. While a client list alone is not enough to be a partner, it is required. Without clients that are "yours" (i.e., you leave, their billings follow you), you are an employee of whoever does control that work flow.
Developing high-paying and quality clients desired by higher-end service firms takes decades of hard work and single-minded focus.
Spartee at July 14, 2009 10:27 AM
First thing, COOP - Dorothy EARNED those shoes.
"Granted, Ms. Weiss was not writing about how to be a good leader, but how to compete with sociopaths. "
This nails it. It's a universal condition too, even if sociopaths tend to cluster in law offices. Universal - watch Raise the Red Lantern again after all these years and see what you see. The only thing that has stayed the same is that Li Gong is still smokin'.
"I favor the naive approach: it's better (for the organization and for oneself) to be a good leader in a lower position than to be a bad leader in a higher position.
There was a quote in the Army somewhere that we had to memorize (clearly not too ermanently) to the effect that an army needed good lieutenants and captains much more than it needed good generals. The British Army is the main exhibit on that one - pathetic generals who were unable to hinder them very much.
Jim at July 14, 2009 11:38 AM
Solution? Ban ALL lawyers...especially Family law lawyers...
Seriously...I have never seen a case where a male attorney made more than a female attorney, everything else being equal. The business of law dictates that per hour rates are indicative of the quality of the attorney and how experienced they are, not their gender.
mike at July 14, 2009 1:41 PM
This advice really doesn't comport w/ my experience in dealing w/ female professionals. I interact w/ a lot of women in advertising and marketing, many attorneys I deal w/ are women, and one of my business partners is a woman, though she's Australian.
They seem to do fine. They're certainly not the wilting violets that the cited author depicts. The ones I know aren't shy about promoting themselves and are typically pretty eager to engage in the social aspects of their careers. Frankly they're better at this than I am.
and pressuring firms to expand leadership opportunities for women.
This is a sure track to a dead-end position w/ an inflated title. It's one thing to address company policies that explicitly thwart women (e.g. schedules that would make it impossible for a mother to advance). But set-asides are another matter - and that's exactly what tends results from pressure to 'expand leadership opportunities' specifically for a certain group.
Jack at July 14, 2009 1:52 PM
"and pressuring firms to expand leadership opportunities for women."
Interesting. Insisting on tokenism.
Jack is right.
Jim at July 14, 2009 3:51 PM
I am a single (never married, once engaged) female, no kids. A little from my perspective:
I worked a full time job (40 hours a week) while putting myself through school (two junior colleges and a private 4 year) to finish my Bachelor's. When all was said and done, it wasn't pretty, but I graduated at 25 years old and had already 5+ years of solid work experience.
The summer I graduated, they hired two young men (same college) who were at the end of their senior year (22 years old). No work experience. They were given offices, mentorship training, nice salaries and company cars, gas account, expense accounts - daily expensed lunches. At the time, this kinda stung.
Their jobs were in sales (I was told there were no available positions for sales a few months earlier). I was doing all the work while they golfed.
Looking back now, I think I was all the better for it. While they golfed, I networked through daily business tasks with clients and vendors, I did my work, sometimes this included 12 hour days with no overtime; all the while learning a whole hell of a lot about the business. Where I lacked in some areas, I could now have equal footing in others. I got the work experience and industry knowledge, which was golden.
I had one boss that dubbed me "The Silent Assassin" because I would get taken to client meetings, dress in heels and a skirt, smile, nod, take notes (and slip the sales guys answers and suggestions on notes during client meetings- since they were to busy golfing to know what they were selling).
Now, I am well paid (probably could be paid more...but I don't have long hours anymore). My boss steals my ideas and brings them back up as if they were his own (then asks me 20 questions before his “meeting” with the higher ups. But you know something? I'm still getting paid, my ideas are being implemented (albeit, slowly and not the way I would do it)...and there is a great satisfaction that comes with that. "Hey, my idea worked!!!! And they love it!!!"
I want to start my own business. Until then, I am laying low. I continue to broaden my knowledge base, while getting a paycheck in the process.
In my experience, it wasn't the salary disparity that was as much of the issue as was the opportunities (golfing) you get passed up on (e.g. girls don't golf) and that I've had to work twice as hard to get the same recognition or be promoted into a place I COULD make more money.
But still, I am getting all this experience. So maybe when others are working in a job they can't stand for a paycheck at 45, 50, 55 years of age... I’ll be doing what I love, and writing my own paychecks.
Not sure if that makes me meek...but I am happier for it.
Feebie at July 14, 2009 4:11 PM
Huh? All of Oz knew what Dorothy had done. Not only did she kill two Wicked Witches, she freed the Munchkins, the Winkies, and the Winged Monkeys. She exposed and dethroned a fraud as well as enthroning her three proteges as the new kings of the West, the Forest, and the Emerald City.
Conan the Grammarian at July 14, 2009 8:35 PM
(completely)
OFFTOPIC
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More photography! Theme: Paris!
First, an offering to the hostess, Paris circa 1900-1920.
Second, does anyone recognize this setting? This not-especially elegant vista is also seen in the 1959 film "The Red Balloon." Apparently in midcentury, the City of Light had some kinda smog thang going on. Anyway, I'm curious to find the spot on Google earth (which is cheaper than French lessons + an airline flight) but don't know where to start. It's the top of a hill, but the only hill I know of in Paris is Montmartre, which [A] seems like a better neighborhood than this and [B] I don't know how to pronounce.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 14, 2009 10:06 PM
And if you're the sort of obsessive person who saves pictures from the internet without remembering where they're from, this site is a godsend.
Lastly, the look on this little girl's face almost makes having a child seem worthwhile.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 14, 2009 10:09 PM
Back on topic: negotiation tips.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 14, 2009 10:13 PM
Thanks for the Paris shots, Crid. Not sure where the Doisneau is from -- probably Montmartre.
Amy Alkon at July 15, 2009 1:37 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/14/why_women_lawye.html#comment-1658403">comment from Amy AlkonHere are some hills in Paris:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topography_of_Paris
Amy Alkon at July 15, 2009 2:08 AM
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