Domestic Violence: Trying To Stop
A commenter writes:
Hello Amy,Like the fellow you posted about the other day I also have a sensitive situation that I wish to remain confidential and thus cannot post in comments, at least not under my usual moniker.
I think there is one more missing side to the treatment triangle: the abusers themselves. I am a domestic abuser. I am not proud of this or happy about it and I do not want you to think I am making excuses for abusers at all. But I want to tell you a little bit about how difficult it has been for me to find help with this problem.
Years ago I knew I had anger management issues so I contacted the local municipal court to find out where they send people for anger management training. When I called the local wellness center they referred me to (this is a town of about 15,000 people, only one provider) they asked what I had been sentenced for. When I told them I was actually trying to be proactive and get help before I did something to get arrested over, they informed me that they do not provide services unless you have been convicted and sentenced to AM training. Strike 1, fair enough, move on.
I began to search for psychologists/therapists through my health insurance network. It was not only difficult to get appointments but of the few in town, I knew 2 personally or professionally so they're out. At this point I ran up against the stigma problem. It's bad enough to have to sign out for a doctors appointment once a week, but HR also gets the Explanation of Benefits (EOB), I don't know how much to trust them but I kind of have to.
My next step was to just call 911 and ask the police to come pick me up. Bad move. Fortunately I did not tell them that I had actually pushed my wife over that night, just that I needed help. and to their credit, they did their best to help me. 1 night strapped to a gurney in the ER and then 2 weeks in the county mental health hospital. That was my one and only late mortgage payment. One Flew Over the Coocos Nest is no exaggeration. Not only could they not help me since their job is merely to keep people from killing themselves, they have no counselors who spend time talking with patients. Discharge was similar to the bus ticket out of town, they had no resources to help me build a support network. At that point in my life I literally needed someone to pick up the phone and make the call for me.
I looked into Behavioral Health clinics, once I learned that term, but they all seem to operate on the same model: 2 week intensive treatment, either in patient or out. Again stigma problem, I can't take 2 weeks sick leave and I don't want HR to get the EOB. My work is not cut throat corporate but this is still just not something you want your coworkers to even suspect.
Years later I've grown up and stopped accepting excuses in this realm. Everytime a door slams shut, I find a new one to open. I now have a psychologist who meets me after hours and an anger management support group, similar to AA. It's going to be a long road, and I do not expect I will ever be able to repair the relationships I have damaged but I am committed to this and will see it through.
The point is that it has taken quite a bit of determination on my part to build my support network. I think the trouble here is that you have a bunch of proud, insecure abusers and it is not going to work to put the onus on them to find help, especially if it is rare and or does not readily exist. There is so much shame and guilt after an episode of abuse, I cannot imagine that the abusers themselves don't also want help, but perhaps I am naive.
All this time it never donned on me to call a DV support hotline and see if they have resources to help the abusers as well. I guess now I have an experiment to try when work slows down.
I'll keep you posted on the results.
Let me throw the first stone from here on the west coast, where we're all about to fall asleep, and let the east coast strike back in a couple hours....
Those of us without problems like this –or similar/related debilitations such as bad alcoholism or bad sexual enthusiams– are made uncomfortable by the endless fascination our society takes in therapy. First, because it's not the responsibility of other people to give you a gentle landing from these behaviors. For our own part, we feel compelled only to insist that you stop misbehaving now. And feeling that way doesn't make us assholes. Because, and secondly, a dirty little secret about therapy seems to be that it doesn't work. The high frequency with which we hear it recommended these days has nothing to do with efficacy... It's more about our helplessness in the face of characterological weaknesses, which are all about irrationality and recidivism. When an alky falls off the wagon, we can righteously (if hopelessly) say "More therapy, buddy." We're not therefore compelled to provide it to him.
We in the rest of your society are not your family. We're not your Dad, we're not your friends, we're not intimate enough to worry about your pride. Stigma is not the problem you're having.
We're truly sorry that you're having trouble finding help that's conveniently priced and flattering. But meanwhile, we don't want to hear at lot of bad stories that begin with "Meanhile..."
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 12:29 AM
One last look before nighty-nite, and I hate it even more:
> it is not going to work to put
> the onus on them to find help
We don't have to put the onus on them... It already is on them. You're pretending it's our problem: It's not. We don't get violent with people, or drink and drive, or buy too many houses....
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 12:49 AM
Rage is an addiction. Addicts (alcoholics, abusers, ragers) who are not met with severe consequences, will not get better, will not move forward, and will not change. They are all proud, they are all insecure, they are all selfish and self centered. This isn't news...it's an excuse.
One thing you can take to the bank about untreated addicts (abusers, alcoholics, ragers), if their lips are moving, they are lying.
Therapy does work, but only if the addict is WILLING. That means at ground zero with no fight left - NONE. Any move towards therapy before that point is a waste of fucking time. There is no easy way around it.
Addicts are master manipulators, so it’s not surprising to me when I hear about therapy being ineffective. But if they are willing and honest, it *does* work. Most aren't, so the odds are grim.
Slammed doors are but one of the many gifts pulling you closer to your bottom.
Guilt, self pity and shame will keep you stuck in the cyclical self-made-prison some call Hell. They are also tired excuses. You can't change from there - and unconciously or conciously, addicts know that.
When addicts/alcoholics/ragers/abusers REALLY want help, they aren't saying "I need help"...they are DOING the deal. They shut up and just do it and stop Inconveniencing others.
Until then, no, they really DON'T want help, they just want to be enabled so they can get away with their con and expect everyone else to walk around the big elephant laying basketball sized turds in the middle of the room.
Any, and I mean any kindness, or coddling of active abusers, addicts, ragers, alcoholics will be in vain and just be "used".
Surrendering is the beginning. Humility is necessary. Responsibility a requirement. Forgiveness of self, a must.
Feebie at July 15, 2009 2:02 AM
Feebie - YES, YES, YES TO EVERYTHING YOU SAID.
Gretchen at July 15, 2009 5:00 AM
I was gonna stay out of this, but no.
Let me tell you a little something about rage.
It has medical causes too. And it isn't something that's easy to notice, until it explodes. You can't control it, because you aren't CAUSING it.
You can surrender, be humble, and forgive yourself all you want. But when your thyroid is misfiring, you can't do a fucking thing to stop it.
Maybe what this guy needs isn't psychological help, it's medical.
Sure, there are people out there who get off on being abusive. But we call that "being a dick". It's not an addiction there either.
brian at July 15, 2009 5:38 AM
Well, the nicest thing I can say is at least this guy is making some attempt. I would say good luck, but that would suggest this issue is not totally under his control. Don't hit people. Don't scream at people. There, problem solved.
One thing about abusers and rageaholics I have noticed is they only do it to safe targets. Those people who claim to simply "lose it" somehow manage to keep their tempers when that 250 pound former heavyweight boxer annoys them. /sarcasm
From that, I conclude they don't have an anger management issue, they have a "I-get-off-on-screaming-at-and-hitting-people-who-cannot-reply-in-kind" issue. When consequences for losing their temper will be a swift beat down from some gorilla, that temper never shows up.
Spartee at July 15, 2009 5:43 AM
"Those people who claim to simply "lose it" somehow manage to keep their tempers when that 250 pound former heavyweight boxer annoys them."
Gotta agree, Spartee.
Want to know what my dad used to say to us? When he'd be foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog, screaming, fists raised, and we'd telling him to calm down, and he'd say "You know, a real man woulda thrown you through the window by now." He thought he was doing us a favor by kindly refraining from actual physical abuse (it eventually lead to physical abuse. Shocker.)
Real men do that? Really? Enlighten me!
He wouldn't go at people bigger than himself, though, like my brother. Or maybe it was because he hates women. Who really knows. But I think Spartee makes a great point.
You don't say stuff like THAT, and MEAN IT, if you're raging it up involuntarily. That's a whacked perception of the world/attitude thing.
I agree with Brian that for some folks it's probably a mental thing with real chemical components that need to be treated with drugs...but there's gotta be an attitude-readjustment component. You don't spend years of your life full of anger and lashing out only to be completely cured with a pill.
Gretchen at July 15, 2009 6:23 AM
Boo fucking Hoo, he doesnt want HR to know about it.
Let me tell you something bud, court ordered therepy doesnt do shit.
My familly was sent to group therpy - though why we children needed to go to therpy with the hapry that beat us was never explained.
You know what we did? Played games with other kids whiule the adults watched TV.
The court therpist just signed everyone in and made sure the paperwork was filled out proprely.
lujlp at July 15, 2009 6:37 AM
>>Everytime a door slams shut, I find a new one to open. I now have a psychologist who meets me after hours and an anger management support group, similar to AA.
Good for him.
I also liked Feebie's comment - though I'm not sure it's always the case that "Rage is an addiction". I think it becomes an addiction - and that's where a support group can helpfully teach (counter intuitively) that rage leads to more rage - not catharsis.
On a lighter note, in poor taste! I once offended a good British friend in the US by bashfully offering to take her adolescent son with mine to Anger Management.
She agreed with ill grace, saying that while she trusted me - she still wasn't exactly thrilled about it.
It turned out she hadn't heard of the latest Adam Sandler movie. (She thought I was being tentative about hauling her son to therapy. In fact I was worried she disapproved of frat-style Adam Sandler comedies!)
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 6:48 AM
> Well, the nicest thing I can say
> is at least this guy is making
> some attempt.
He seems awfully well defended. The rest of us are expected to feel bad about the "stigma" and expense which prevent him from being assisted.
Besides, are we sure this is a guy? I don't want to read it again closely enough to find out.
> Forgiveness of self, a must.
Feebie, I adore you, but that last line is a sneaky lightning bolt of feminine energy that undermines all the rest. The pride for which this guy expects to be forgiven may well be a large part of a maladjusted interior life. I care much more about his conduct than about his feelings. It'd be OK with me if he lived the rest of of his life hating himself, so long as no one else was being beaten. That evil component of his life need not be forgiven, and until it's extinguished, I'm less concerned about the rest.
Correcting this behavior by the sort of therapy he claims to want will probably involve cutting out a large part of his personality, and will be as painful as cutting off flesh. Chatter about stigma and expense is a way for the sick tissue to feign wellness.
And already we've taken more interest in this person's interior life than I want to take. Everybody, but especially women, can sometimes be fascinated with feelings. But this is all about a boundary.
Don't beat people. If that means you have to live a lie, live a lie. If it means you have to spend a lot of money, spend a lot of money. If it means you have to go through a period of humiliation, then go through a period of humiliation. "Forgive yourself" or don't: Whatever. But don't beat people.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 6:49 AM
Are we supposed to think the LW is a hero because he acknowledges that he shouldn't beat people? He was so busy patting himself on the back for being wonderful that it makes me scared for the people he is around. I was married to a sociopath like that once. Don't want to start the whole gender debate by saying I never thought I'd get out alive......
Kristen at July 15, 2009 6:54 AM
That whole letter is about how he won't stop beating up his wife unless someone helps him, but he doesn't want anyone to find out he beats up his wife, so he won't get anyone to help him stop.
Robin at July 15, 2009 6:58 AM
K gets it! Robin gets it! THe midwest is reporting now, I can tell.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 7:00 AM
I wonder why I don't just beat anyone who annoys me, or just kill them? Could it possibly be because actions have consequences, and excuses absolve nothing? You can always leave, or choose not to be annoyed, or react and pay the price. It's your choice. You chose to react, just as I chose not to ram the guy in front of me this morning who was driving slower than I would have liked him to.
Among my parents, that awful religion thing, school and the Marine Corps, somehow it penetrated even my stubborn skull. Actions have consequences.
My sympathy is reserved for the victims.
MarkD at July 15, 2009 7:20 AM
>>Are we supposed to think the LW is a hero because he acknowledges that he shouldn't beat people?
Not remotely, Kristen!
But, maybe, he's a little better than the cowardly thug he was before the acknowledgment?
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 7:34 AM
Thanks for that, Kristen. I was involved once with a sociopath, too, although fortunately not married to him. Made it easier to extricate myself. But I have to admit, I was at first taken with his supposed "strength". He seemed to be such a "protective" person. How ironic to find out he was the one I needed protection from. I also had to look at the whys of my involvment with him. And then figure out how to extricate myself from those, too. I still keep my "Red Flag List", courtesy of HBI, in my files. It's a good reminder of the kind of people I don't want to be involved with. Male or female.
Flynne at July 15, 2009 7:42 AM
> But, maybe, he's a little better
> than the cowardly thug he was
> before the acknowledgment?
Nope. Still cowardly; still a thug.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 7:54 AM
>>Feebie, I adore you, but that last line is a sneaky lightning bolt of feminine energy that undermines all the rest.
Addicts need to forgive themselves. It was in reference to shame, guilt, self pitty. Those don't don't stop until self forgiveness is bestowed.
"I can't even look at myself in the mirror".
Yes you can. Forgive yourself, and start in a new direction. They can't be kind to others and be worthy of forgiveness from others (as he mentioned...his wreckage) if they don't forgive themselves and move on.
When addicts don't forgive themselves (give themselves a clean slate, well I am flawed - try again) they can't move up, on or anywhere. Who does that benefit? No one.
Just sayin.
(All hail feminine power) Heh. (grinz)
Feebie at July 15, 2009 8:03 AM
> It turned out she hadn't heard of
> the latest Adam Sandler movie
Anecdote of the month.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 8:04 AM
>>Nope. Still cowardly; still a thug.
Oh. Do you mean he might still be "cuntlike," Crid?
I know it's bad form to drag stuff between threads. But I'm genuinely snarly about you recently flinging "cuntlike" at me Crid. You want to throw unnecessarily offensive and out-of-character insults? Then do so. Lobbing cunt in a feebly fastidious paper napkin by adding "like" was pathetic.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 8:20 AM
Fuck it. Forget my last comment. It was self indulgent. Apologies, Amy. I'm over it.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 8:35 AM
I commend the letter writer. He is struggling to be a better person. We do not know his circumstances. I've been around enough to know that sometimes life deposits us into situations we never thought we would find ourselves in.
~~The greatest of victories is the one over oneself.~~ Pali Tripitaka
Eric at July 15, 2009 8:53 AM
I have zero, zippo experience with domestic violence, so maybe this is naive. But...
...aren't you guys being a bit hard on the guy? Is it not possible that someone has a behavioral problem that they want to change?
There are alcoholics who join AA before they destroy their families. Not many, perhaps, but some. Is it not possible that this guy is the DV equivalent?
bradley13 at July 15, 2009 8:55 AM
Men or women who rage at other people (who are always smaller than they are) are BULLIES, plain and simple. They do it because they know they can get away with it.
The LW should arm his previous victims with a taser and tell them to zap him if he starts into them in the future. That would be pretty funny.
Chrissy at July 15, 2009 9:01 AM
"The LW should arm his previous victims with a taser and tell them to zap him if he starts into them in the future. That would be pretty funny."
Sounds like some good cognitive behavioral therapy to me!
LW: "Go get me a glass of water."
Sorry sucker family member of LW: "Uh, you have legs, right?"
"YOU KNOW WHAT I OUGHTA DO?!"
*zzztttt*
"OW THAT FUCKING HURTS BITCH!"
*zzzt*zzzzttttttttt*
"SHIT. Jesus christ, ok already."
*ztt*
"Fine. Ok ok ok ok. I'll get my own water."
*zt!* [for good measure]
Gretchen at July 15, 2009 9:10 AM
>>There are alcoholics who join AA before they destroy their families. Not many, perhaps, but some. Is it not possible that this guy is the DV equivalent?
Yup - my take too, bradley13.
Also, Feebie wrote: "Therapy does work, but only if the addict is WILLING. That means at ground zero with no fight left - NONE."
Some might argue that the alcoholic has to wake up in "ground zero with no fight left..." before therapy can be effective.
However, the abuser's "ground zero" can obviously include the beaten body - or worse - of someone else.
So the AA analogy works - but I am willing to extend encouragement, fwiw, to a DV abuser who has taken what might be regarded as merely faltering, baby steps to recovery in absolutist AA terms.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 9:16 AM
> I'm genuinely snarly about you
> recently flinging "cuntlike" at me
You deserved it. You were using all your authoress powers to be haughty and self-aggrandizing and oblivious; this baseless, gratuitous snoot-tooting was precisely the topic of the thread. For lack of ironic awareness alone you deserved the bitchslap; That you dropped like a sack of spuds was the best evidence of your inattention. Nyah-nyah
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 9:24 AM
>>That you dropped like a sack of spuds was the best evidence of your inattention. Nyah-nyah
I guess hoping for a graciously witty & gallant response was too much!
(I did the sack 'o spuds drop because I was pissed at you, Crid. More fool me, obviously but don't be such a rigidly pompous twerp. Whatever.)
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 9:31 AM
> (All hail feminine power) Heh. (grinz)
Could always tell you were a girly girl.
> He is struggling to be a better person.
Well, he will be as soon as we make it cheap and flattering for him.
> I have zero, zippo experience with
> domestic violence
Ditto....
> Is it not possible that someone has
> a behavioral problem that they
> want to change?
We never said it was impossible, we said we look forward to his serious effort.
> They do it because they know they
> can get away with it.
Before you accuse Chrissy of being harsh, consider the rhetorical posture of the letter; The guy's not yet promised that he's thrown his last punch. Instead, we're asked for patience with his burdens.
Got none fer ya, dood.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 9:32 AM
> sittin' on your porch there with
> your whittlin' stick
...and I'm pompous? Shee-it, buttercup... Couldn't keep up with you on the fastest day of my life.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 9:35 AM
I'm not sure why I should care about this guy's problems. I'll save my sympathy for the people he's abusing.
MonicaP at July 15, 2009 9:43 AM
Empathy is touted as a good cure for DV. So got to the local boxing ring and go a few rounds with someone 2-3 times your size and or well trained. Should fix your empathy and face right up. On the other hand the fact that she didn't call the cops and get his ass hauled off to jail would speak of some level of enabling.
The medical rage is little different than being a fat ass. There are a small percentage of ragers that have a medical problem. Most just feel entitled.
vlad at July 15, 2009 9:48 AM
Crid got it down here when he pointed out that the LW has not promised he threw his last punch. Instead we are supposed to applaud his heroic efforts to get help so he can stop reacting to all these people that make him so angry and make him respond with violence. Blah blah and fucking blah. He should get off this site and call his therapist because I think I may piss him off soon. Post when you can keep your anger under control and realize that you have no right to ever take your anger out on anyone else and when you realize that you don't deserve a pat on the back for that. It always reminds me of when people say to someone looking to get out of a relationship, "He doesn't cheat. He doesn't spend all hours in a bar, and he doesn't beat you." Its like those are bonus points and not just a low standard in which to judge a partner.
Kristen at July 15, 2009 9:51 AM
>>...and I'm pompous? Shee-it, buttercup... Couldn't keep up with you on the fastest day of my life.
Calling a woman "cuntlike" makes you sound like Jay R's criminal cousin, Crid.
But as I said, I'm over it.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 9:52 AM
"However, the abuser's "ground zero" can obviously include the beaten body - or worse - of someone else."
Ground zero:
Is it jail?
Is it when the spouse and children finally, for realz ppl, kick the abuser out of their house and lives forever?
Is it being fired from a beloved job?
Killing someone in an accident during a bout of particularly bad road rage?
I have to say that most family members of people with explosive anger issues are shockingly tolerant - most people will put up with a lot more than they will ever admit to. That's a whole different topic. That means there were plenty of chances, before the abuser "loses everything" (family, plus a divorce probably). I almost think that for a lot of abusers ground zero is too late. There is definitely an awareness that the behavior is not cool and needs to change - despite not getting to rock bottom yet.
Which is why I promote shock and awe therapy, to break their egos down, much like one would do with an alpha dog who is uncontrollable. The person just needs to seek help, not actually hit rock bottom and admit his/her problems FIRST. Admission is part of the therapy. Therapy that may or may not include putting them into the octagon with Brock Lesnar. I'm only half joking. Pass the mouth guard.
Gretchen at July 15, 2009 9:56 AM
> But as I said, I'm over it.
We can tell! Me too! Apology accepted, no hard feelings!
--
Without knowing anything about an octagonal Brock Lesnar, I think I agree with Gretchen: Stop beating people, then (maybe) we can talk about your emotions.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 9:59 AM
And your pride.
And your finances.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 10:05 AM
If this guy is seriously remorseful and is desperate to stop his behavior, why hasn't he separated from his wife? I would think that would be the noble, kind thing to do to protect her while he is on his quest to seek help. I'm not saying get a divorce - just go live somewhere else and don't come back until you are 100% sure you will never hit her again.
Karen at July 15, 2009 10:14 AM
>>We can tell!
Loathe your royal we, Crid. Always have. (And there was no apology to you.)
>>The person just needs to seek help...
Which he is actually doing, Gretchen.
(Though he's not following the approved script, obviously...)
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 10:15 AM
"The person just needs to seek help..."
Sorry. My post was a fantasy laden hypothetical where my idea of therapy exists. As in, "if this therapy existed the person just needs to show up and have his face bashed in a few times. Then we can talk about his mental health."
If he goes home after with a broken face he'll be in too much pain to hit his wife.
But for the here and now it's clear that he just isn't able to get the right kind of therapy. My own dad can't, either. He's been to two shrinks and it's no use: he is still a certified jerk with anger problems! But they sure did give him pills, pills and more pills! It's a lot of pussyfooting around.
Gretchen at July 15, 2009 10:22 AM
This chap needs to get the aggression out of his system.
Not everyone with an agressive streak is a bully who picks on people smaller than them.
I can recall two instances in the last five years when short guys half my weight (17 stone 6'1" can easy press 180 lbs for 12 reps) have stormed up to me to have a go about something, because they are steamed up about something someone else did to them earlier and just lost it at some imagined slight from me.
A lot of people don't deal with other peoples aggression properly and repress it just to take it out later on a "soft" target such as a husband or wife.
Misdirection of anger is a huge problem in society and one that few people understand.
To this guy i would suggest he do the following - if you feel frustration or anger building, go for a run or a swim or train with weights - until you are tired. Avoid alcohol - it reduces your control. Find a friend you can vent to , preferably whilst doing one of the above.
If you find you are losing it whilst arguing with your partner agree a neutral ground where you both can talk. Somewhere open where the surrounding make you less likely to escalate.
You should feel ashamed of assaulting your wife - and do something about it. Examine what makes you start to build up to a rage and treat it in it's early stages.
Of course you could just be a bully who gets off picking on people who you think won't fight back - in which case one day you will pick on someone like me who simply isn't impressed by a red face and failing fists and is remarkably difficult to land a punch on (and rock hard if you do manage to) - in which case I will probably have the privilage of seeing you lose bladder control too like the last guy who tried it - but don't let it get that far eh?
Mr H at July 15, 2009 10:26 AM
Just a small clarification here, when I spoke of ground zero, I was referring to going to a paid therapist. Nothing in my post said you couldn't get help before that point.
Feebie at July 15, 2009 10:30 AM
Feebie,
I needed your clarification. I mistakenly took your "ground zero" to mean everything laid to waste, rather than a starting point.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 10:46 AM
Jody, lookin at it, it's easy to see how. I could have made it clearer.
Thanks.
Feebie at July 15, 2009 10:53 AM
Gretchen you made me laugh!
My favourite joke comment to my ex, who was completely non-violent, was 'you gotta sleep sometime, and when you do...'
Chrissy at July 15, 2009 12:07 PM
> Loathe your royal we
The 'we' isn't royal, it's editorial; and again your imperial origins betray you.
> If this guy is seriously remorseful and
> is desperate to stop his behavior, why
> hasn't he separated from his wife? I
> would think that would be the noble,
> kind thing to do
Word. Go Karen go.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 12:21 PM
>>The 'we' isn't royal, it's editorial; and again your imperial origins betray you.
Pity your definition of 'we' is self-servingly incomplete there, Crid.
Let us examine your own link!
The superscript note to the wiki 'we' entry reveals to us all: ...it's often used by editors, it's also known as the "editorial we". It's also called "the royal we" owing to its frequent use by royalty. Mark Twain once said, "Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'."
You're welcome.
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 12:38 PM
>>...again your imperial origins betray you.
A person's origins often fascinate you, Crid!
So I'll point out - not for the first time here - that if you trace back my origins, they are in fact colonial.
As yours are too, I believe?
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 12:52 PM
> It's also called "the royal we"
Right. I'm using it in the other sense.
> A person's origins often fascinate you
Only when they fuck up people's thinking.
> in fact colonial.
> As yours are too, I believe?
Naw, we're from Indiana. We bow to no man but Hulman: "Gennilmennnnn, start-cher-EN-gines!"
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 1:59 PM
>>Naw, we're from Indiana.
So your people were mound builders, Crid?
Cool!
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 2:17 PM
Oh, I gotta mound.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 2:55 PM
"Lobbing cunt in a feebly fastidious paper napkin"
Thread win.
Pirate Jo at July 15, 2009 4:07 PM
YOu stay outta this, Peej
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 4:21 PM
Okay Crid. I'll be leaving shortly to ride my bike to the start of Ragbrai, so it's all yours.
http://ragbrai.com/
You are doing great as Tressider's muse, though, so keep pestering her!
Pirate Jo at July 15, 2009 5:21 PM
Not at all... She makes it so very, very easy.
(Crossing Iowa on a bicycle in JULY??!?!)
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 15, 2009 6:11 PM
>>I'll be leaving shortly to ride my bike to the start of Ragbrai...
Good luck - and watch out for thorns that puncture, Pirate Jo:)
Jody Tresidder at July 15, 2009 7:10 PM
You guys are like an old married couple; it's oddly comforting.
Gretchen at July 16, 2009 4:19 AM
She has very special powers.
Did anyone else think Ragbrai was a village just outside outside Mumbai?
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 16, 2009 6:29 AM
To be fair, someone who calls the cops on themselves probably does want to not be like he is. I'll give him props for that.
Life in small towns can be hard. Those of us in cities tend to forget, and take for granted the anonimity we have with our personal lives. Going to therapy with someone he knows probably wouldn't be that helpful. I can see his difficulty. Doesn't excuse the behavior that does just need to stop, but I think he's trying more than most.
momof4 at July 16, 2009 1:15 PM
Life in small towns is hard? Yeah, I guess its easier when everyone knows everyone for you to be known as the asshole that beats people up because he has a hair trigger temper as opposed to being the man that is getting help for his problems. Now that I realize he lives in a small town and is just embarrassed to go to therapy with someone he knows because God knows he probably lives in a town with a population of 7 and there are probably no therapists that he doesn't know, now I understand why he would choose to remain a selfish bullying sociopath for all the town of 7 to see. Its a much better choice.
Kristen at July 16, 2009 3:22 PM
And one more thing cause this just is aggravating. He won't go to a therapist because he knew 2 and he was afraid of HR getting and explanation of benefits, but somehow its better to call 911, be removed from your home by the police and spend two weeks on a mental ward. Sorry, but this man is just not crying out to me that he is making any healthy choices. And on a side note, between the 911 call, the police assistance, and the mental ward, I wonder how much his reasonable solution cost the tax payers.
Kristen at July 16, 2009 3:26 PM
Being a victim of multiple abusers and having previously sought counseling to try to find answers to 'why?' etc...and possibly get assistance in coping with the trauma. I think it is a positive thing that the person abusing seeks out help and there should be more programs devoted to helping problematic individuals before something happens as opposed to helping in the aftermath of abuse.Events and life circumstances as well as learned behaviors and styles of coping can present personal obstacles or barriers that create stress, anxiety, or feeling down. Occasionally it is impossible to put one's finger on the nature of the problem. The description often provided is that "things just feel off" or "I just don't feel like myself". It is possible to gain insight into the nature of such issues, introduce change, and effectively manage such scenarios through individual counseling.
Alleviating anxiety and depression, becoming more energized, developing new coping strategies and styles of communicating help individuals build better relationships and live life more fully at home, and work, and at play.
cdimatteo at October 1, 2009 9:17 AM
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