What Does It Mean If A Man Sits Down To Pee?
Eugene Volokh blogged about a child custody case that led me to reminisce about a run I once took around the Champ de Mars, the park area around the Eiffel Tower. Paris firemen (the "pompiers," totally hot) were doing some training there...running and stuff. And, at some point, in bright shining sunlight, they all repaired to a wall in a big long line, turned their backs and peed.
This child custody case initially turned around the opposite -- pee shyness, and the above question, what does it mean if a male sits down to pee?
Eugene links to a Florida Court of Appeals opinion in which the court decided, as a matter of law, that "the allegations and evidence (were) insufficient...to satisfy the substantial change test":
[T]he father [petitioned] for modification of the final [custody] judgment, requesting primary residential custody of their [15-year-old] son.... [T]he trial court based its ruling on evidence that the father was more likely to ensure the child was engaged in productive, normal, and healthy extracurricular activities, and the child would benefit from a greater male influence in his life. The trial court concluded that the child's development was "disturbingly retarded." It went on to find that the child possessed unreasonable fears for his age, and had "unmanlike" toilet behavior.[Footnote: The child would sit to urinate and was self-conscious about urinating in the woods during excursions with the father.]
The Court of Appeals dismissed the toilet issue with "The child simply did not conform to either the father's or trial court's perception of manliness."
But, enough about what the court thinks. What do you think? What does it mean, vis a vis this case, if a boy or man sits down to pee?
The derogatory German term for a man who sits to pee is "sitzpinkler." It also means wimp.
But, does it really matter?
I was an outcast who didn't fit in for my entire childhood and a good part of my early 20s, but it eventually worked out for the best, I think, turning me into a beyond-voracious reader and maybe even making me more compassionate. But, I know it's really rough for kids who aren't socialized according to societal norms. They generally endure a lot of cruelty from other kids. And children of divorce already have it especially rough. And if you look at this particular case, I think these parents both sound like jerks, and sound to me like their kid is a bit of a pawn in a revenge match between the two. I don't have proof of that -- it's just my sense from skimming the case.
Regarding the pee issue, I liked this comment from Still standing:
Respect for women does not call for tolerating petty behavior. This really isn't about manliness, it's about boundaries. A man who tolerates petty, micromanaging crap from his wife is in for a rough marriage. I believe it goes without saying that the reverse (converse?) is true as well.When I got married, my new wife attempted to do what her mother and sister had done - make their husbands sit down to piss.
I told her if she wanted to marry a woman she had missed her chance. It set the tone for years to come, and yes, the marriage is still standing, as am I.
Randy R.'s take:
First, no one has produced any evidence at all that how a man pees has anything to do with his happiness in life or his manliness.Second, any father who thinks that he needs to raise a boy and dictate how the boy uses his body is an abusive overbearing father. What's the father going to do -- beat the kid if he doesn't stand while peeing? Good way to build a lifetime of resentment in the boy.
Third, the real issue here that everyone seems to dance around is this notion that if you sit while peeing, you are somehow a girl, ie., gay.
Trust me -- if they kid is gay, it doesn't matter how he pees.
Owen H writes:
It never ceases to amaze me the fascination so many have with what constitutes "manliness" in other people. I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. If I get up in the middle of the night, I sit down, because I don't feel like turning on the lights. How I pee has nothing to do with being "manly".If this kid is shy about peeing in the woods around his Dad, ever consider it might be his Dad that's the problem, not the kid and how he pees? He sounds like a truly judgmental sod.
Bruce Hayden writes (and I concur):
I think that part of the problem here is that the boy will likely be treated as a wimp, girly-man, etc. if he doesn't ultimately how to urinate in front of other guys. Or, at least in the urinal next to them in public restrooms. I think that it is just part of being a guy in our society.Ok, I did have four brothers, and then lived in a fraternity house. Not as bad as the military, but still enough that I haven't been self-conscious about it since maybe I was 10 or 12.
I don't think it has anything to do with sexual orientation. My memory of the restrooms in gay bars was that they had mirrors so other guys could see what other guys had. Rather, I think it indicia that the mother raised the boy too much like she had raised her daughters. And, yes, girls are much more private about this than boys are, even around members of their same sex.
And this guy's mom I want to meet:
u. saldin:I once witnessed my mother urinating out of a car window. She's pretty flexible.
>>>When I got married, my new wife attempted to do what her mother and sister had done - make their husbands sit down to piss.
LOL, simply amazing! The blue collar term for this is ball-less. If a man is going to act ball-less, life draining "micromanagement" just might be the result. In the cases I know of where a man/husband acts ball-less in the marriage, I have noticed two things: 1, the man grew up with domineering women around him (mother or sisters). 2, their sex lives will be even more dead than the average long term married couple (the sad classic, "I have to beg her for sex")
Social norms are not all equal. Some children can act/look outside some of the norms without too significant of consequence. This is not the case here. A boy peeing sitting down is setting him up for significant, and entirely unneeded, adolescent hardship. Any mother who teaches her son to sit down while peeing? Imho she has no business being a mother to a male child. Of course there are an astounding amount of mothers and fathers who have no business being mothers and fathers for all kinds of reasons.
TW at July 27, 2009 1:22 AM
I have to say that this is the first I've ever heard of this being an issue for anyone. I finally got out of a relationship with a controlling, domineering, micromanaging woman but peeing while sitting down never came up. She has 2 gay sons from 2 different fathers, btw, but I don't think that was part of her domineering demands of them.
It just doesn't seem natural to not pee standing up if you're a guy. Was there any mention of the mother forcing the kid to do it that way? If not, then I'd leave the kid alone. If the mother is forcing this then I think it's her problem.
Any male who is forced to piss sitting down by his wife is beyond whipped.
sean at July 27, 2009 3:30 AM
Seriously? My DH sits down to pee. ABout 6 months into the marriage, I told him his aim sucked, and he could either clean the toilet or sit. He chose to sit. And yes, he has balls. He chooses not to try to prove his manhood by making me clean his piss. He does it by actually being a man.
I'm sure he pisses standing up elsewhere.
My girls, on the other hand, frequently stand to pee when we're outside (and boy, can they arc it!). Does that mean they're manly?? What a crock of shit. The dad sounds like the sort of ass that forces his kid to kill animals to prove their manhood too, whether or not the kid wants to hunt.
momof4 at July 27, 2009 5:41 AM
Lazy bitch.
Jeff at July 27, 2009 5:49 AM
Guys have a talent that no gal possesses. They can write their names in the snow.
Roger at July 27, 2009 5:53 AM
Pretty sure Sitzpinkler isn't considered derogatory. Germans had their kerfuffle over tidyness and now sitting is pretty common. I lived in an international dorm 4 years ago while I was over there, with shared dual-sex restrooms, and there were signs in the stalls recommending the position (probably for the benefit of the non-German boys living there). My "Ami" friends and I finally got up the gall to ask someone about Toilettenkultur, receiving the impression that it's a non-issue these days and most young guys (under 30?) were taught to sit.
dulcibella at July 27, 2009 5:55 AM
I have no idea how my boyfriend pees (I assumed standing, but after seeing this maybe not) and I don't want to know, much less tell him how he should be doing it.
I don't understand this aim thing either. Who are these guys peeing all over the toilet??? While I've never been married or lived with a boyfriend, I grew up with two brothers and both of them managed to get it where it was supposed to go. And I've never had a problem with a boyfriend either. If you're going to brag you can write your name in the snow then I'm going to assume you have enough control over it to actually hit a pretty big target like a toilet bowl.
Fink-Nottle at July 27, 2009 6:06 AM
Boyfriend never makes a mess. He's a polite guy. I think he would consider it rude.
Amy Alkon at July 27, 2009 6:12 AM
>>a run I once took around the Champ de Mars, the park area around the Eiffel Tower. Paris firemen (the "pompiers," totally hot) were doing some training there...running and stuff. And, at some point, in bright shining sunlight, they all repaired to a wall in a big long line, turned their backs and peed.
Amy - are you saying it was a synchronized fire-dousing exercise then?
(It's a wonderful image - and firemen are often gorgeous - it's just mass peeing in a public park isn't that usual?)
Jody Tresidder at July 27, 2009 6:16 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/27/what_does_it_me.html#comment-1659936">comment from Jody TresidderIt was the mass peeing in plain sight in broad daylight that amazed me.
Amy Alkon at July 27, 2009 6:24 AM
"ABout 6 months into the marriage, I told him his aim sucked, and he could either clean the toilet or sit."
Psst. Momof4's "husband", this is the crisis intervention unit. We are ready to rescue you. Can you get the gag off and crawl to the phone?
Spartee at July 27, 2009 6:34 AM
It's amazingly easy to splash, or to dribble a little at the end. I frequently clean the toilet up afterwards with a piece of toilet paper.
I was shocked when a female acquaintance informed me that mine was not the only gender whose public restrooms have pee on the seat. Apparently some women squat, to avoid touching the toilet? OK, but there's a bunch of toilet paper right there. Clean up after yourselves.
Pseudonym at July 27, 2009 6:56 AM
But, enough about what the court thinks. What do you think? What does it mean, vis a vis this case, if a boy or man sits down to pee?
Sounds like a Howard Stern show segment where Howard reveales something goofy about himslf and everybody else laughs at him and picks on him.
John Tagliaferro at July 27, 2009 7:04 AM
I HATE the bitches who won't sit on the seat and squat over it, peeing on it and ruining it for the rest of us.
If you are a squatter please keep disinfectant wipes in your purse and clean up after yourself.
And if you are Amy, please post the fabled second letter. I am so jealous of all the other people who get to read them! Are they online on some town's newspaper?
NicoleK at July 27, 2009 7:34 AM
I think the trade-off is fair— if you stand to urinate, you get to clean the toilet. Privilege has its price. That's the way it worked for my sons. They are now very careful gentlemen who will make great husbands because they know how to clean a bathroom.
And regarding the toilet seat— to open a hornets' nest: the rule in our house is that EVERYONE has to close the lid. Men, women, everyone. That way everyone has to do SOMETHING after they finish their business. Totally egalitarian.
Deirdre B. at July 27, 2009 7:38 AM
"I was shocked when a female acquaintance informed me that mine was not the only gender whose public restrooms have pee on the seat. Apparently some women squat, to avoid touching the toilet?"
I cleaned toilets as a youth. The gals' bathrooms were always far more vile than the guys'.
"They are now very careful gentlemen who will make great husbands because they know how to clean a bathroom."
That is both the necessary and sufficient condition to be a "great husband"?
Spartee at July 27, 2009 7:51 AM
My ex used to sit down often - maybe not in public restrooms but at home. Granted, he wasn't the manliest of men, more the metrosexual type, but he said it was just more comfortable, and he didn't understand why guys were supposed to stand. Made sense to me. Where is it written guys have to stand, much less that this defines your manhood? I mean, so what?
I have no idea how my son pees. I haven't had any involvement in that since potty-training (when he was taught standing). Nothing in this case seems to suggest that the mom influenced the son's choice either way. Believe me, after a certain point, most moms aren't intimately involved with their son's bathroom habits, so I don't see how this is her "fault". Sounds like a dad reaching for absurd excuses to gain custody.
lovelysoul at July 27, 2009 7:59 AM
BTW, I think it was momof4's husband who was lazy if he couldn't clean up after himself. To imply that she is lazy because she doesn't want to clean up piss (while also caring for 4 kids) is pretty idiotic. Any guy who would leave that for his wife is a pig.
lovelysoul at July 27, 2009 8:05 AM
Why all the hate on momof4? Does anyone really want to clean someone else's pee off a toilet seat? She gave her husband a choice and he chose to sit. Not leaving your pee everywhere is part of being housebroken (Lebowski moment).
Pirate Jo at July 27, 2009 8:13 AM
It was more he'd never had to clean up after himself till me. Fuck yourself, Jeff, since I am sure you can't get anyone else to with that entitled attitude.
There is going to be splash-up when you are pouring liquid into liquid from 3 feet up. Period. Either on the bowl or under the seat. I'll do a lot of things in life-his laundry, cook for him, etc, but I stop cleaning other people's pee at toilet training. I ain't his mom.
It may be a generational thing. I can't imagine anyone my age or younger giving a shit whether a guy sits or stands, or defining manhood that way.
momof4 at July 27, 2009 8:13 AM
My husband definitely stands to pee... I caught him peeing in my closet two weeks ago. I guess he was sleep-walking. (I caught him right when he started, though, and sent him to the real bathroom, so the mess wasn't too bad.)
We were at a dinner party several years ago, where a woman proudly announced that she makes her husband sit to pee. She was making this announcement to let everyone know that she was the dominant one in the relationship.
Anyway, I just keep Clorox wipes in all of the bathrooms for quick wipedowns of countertops, toilets, whatever... Easy enough.
ahw at July 27, 2009 8:21 AM
This is funny, and it made my day. The court case confirms two bickering asshole parents making something out of nothing.
Incidentally, at my own house, I usually pee sitting down. Makes cleaning the toilet easier, and as a single father, that's my job.
My nine year old son pees standing up, but almost exclusively in the back yard (we live in the outskirts of town on a property where this is acceptable, and actually 'green' in terms of water savings).
My son said to me recently when coming into the back door to return to his XBOX, "who needs a toilet when you have a big back yard and a shovel?" I'm pretty sure he was making a joke, as I know from the skid marks in the toilet that he does number two sitting down in the house.
sterling at July 27, 2009 8:25 AM
I repeat. Any man that is told by his wife to sit while peeing and obeys, is beyond whipped.
It's fine to say you aren't going to clean up after him. Let him figure out how he wants to deal with that. But to order him to sit, like he's a dog, is over the line.
I bet Momof4 rubbed his nose in it a few times until he learned to remember to sit. Sounds like a real healthy relationship.
sean at July 27, 2009 8:27 AM
"Guys have a talent that no gal possesses. They can write their names in the snow."
They could always use a stencil.
Gordon at July 27, 2009 8:38 AM
Fuck you too Sean. Did you read my post? I told him he could sit or clean. He choose. Why do you assume I'd rub his face in it? Why would I even have to? Was that stated anywhere? Typical assuming a woman's a bitch. I'm guessing you're single. My relationship is healthy. He's happy, and tells me when there's an issue. I do the same.
Leaving it filthy till he figured it out is passive-aggressive: expecting him to read my mind and know what I want. That's NOT the recipe for a healthy relationship.
My last thought here: It's hard to want to fuck a guy silly when you're cleaning up after his pee just like you do your kids. I no longer have that problem. Something for you guys complaining you don't get enough sex to think about. (losing the chip on your shoulder might help too)
momof4 at July 27, 2009 8:45 AM
> "sitzpinkler."
Har!
"sitzpinkler."
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 27, 2009 8:56 AM
> if you stand to urinate, you get
> to clean the toilet. Privilege
> has its price.
Standing is a "privilege"? Naw, it's biology. I'm happy to stand and happy to clean as necessary. Dealing with one's own filth is a measure of character. But:
> Totally egalitarian.
?
Never forget: The seat is conveniently hinged. It won't get lost, no matter what.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 27, 2009 9:02 AM
"He's happy, and tells me when there's an issue."
Sure he does.
My ex comes from a family of domineering women. before I finally bailed I considered submitting like the other males in the family had. They just go with the flow and let the women run their lives. I don't know if they're "happy" but I know they don't complain about anything.
I decided that life was not for me.
You sound like you have some anger issues. Or are you just having a bad day? Maybe some tinkle got on the bathroom floor?
sean at July 27, 2009 9:22 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/27/what_does_it_me.html#comment-1659974">comment from seanThey just go with the flow and let the women run their lives.
I couldn't respect a man I could boss around, and I don't look to boss a man around anyway. Quite the contrary. I'm always amazed by people who ask me if I "made" my boyfriend get a Prius. I would never even suggest to Gregg what car he should buy. He figures out what car he wants, down to the floor mats, and then asks my opinion on the color he's thinking of getting (do I prefer the dark silver or the light silver, and why?).
Amy Alkon at July 27, 2009 9:28 AM
The child would sit to urinate and was self-conscious about urinating in the woods during excursions with the father.
I look at this as it depends on the length of the excursion and the whine factor. If you are taking a ten mile hike up a trail and you have five miles to the nearest toilet; the kid is whining (at age 15) that he has to go, but won't go in the woods, is scared to step off the trail, etc.; I look at that is an issue.
By age 15, I would say that you should be able to go behind a tree.
Jim P. at July 27, 2009 9:31 AM
>>...Maybe some tinkle got on the bathroom floor?...etc etc etc
Sean,
You've made the same general point three times in this thread.
It wouldn't astonish me if the author Muriel Spark is not one of your faves.
But there's a rebuke she used to quote in her classic memoir that your obsessive comments bring to mind: "pisseur de copie".
Jody Tresidder at July 27, 2009 9:36 AM
An ex-boyfriend of mine, on this very topic, used to say, "If I guy can't hot a hole THIS big, he's never gonna hit a hole this big."
MonicaP at July 27, 2009 9:47 AM
did you know that tha damage caused to the head of the penis from circumcisioln and the subsequent contact of the glans on fabric causes a thickening of the itissue which leads to a malformation of the ureatral opening?
$20 bucks says this boy in addition to being brow beaten by mom into sitting probably also asks for permission to use the toilet
lujlp at July 27, 2009 10:01 AM
Oooh, Sean is a bitter divorced man. I win the award for calling it off his first post!
Just cause you're a pussy that can't talk to his own wife life a man about things that bug him, doesn't mean everyone is.
I don't have anger issues, I just can't tolerate stupidity or assumption-making. Or assholes.
momof4 at July 27, 2009 10:19 AM
like a man, not life a man
momof4 at July 27, 2009 10:19 AM
If I bet $20 that the father is molesting or beating the crap out of the boy in the woods, you guys would go ballistic. Yet, it's alright to assume the worst about the mother without any facts.
I'm sure if he had to ask permission to go to the bathroom, that would be a prominent fact of this case.
lovelysoul at July 27, 2009 10:22 AM
"Why all the hate on momof4?"
Normally I wouldn't get into commenting about other commenters, but...
I think it's carry-over from some previous threads. In an earlier thread, she made a statement along the lines of: "'To Catch a Predator' proves that all men should be treated as sex offenders until they prove they aren't." That got her on the wrong side of most of the guys here, and so far there's been no apology or explanation.
Cousin Dave at July 27, 2009 10:34 AM
My delicious man is 30+ years LAFD/Paramedic, and I've seen first hand how brutal these guys can be when their 'manliness' comes in to question. No shot is off-limits, and always taken advantage of. It's part of the brotherhood. I've seen photoshopped pictures of some of them in drag taped to the station refrigerator; hilarious! If one of them were to be witnessed peeing sitting down - forget about it!
I'll clean up after my man, and still fuck him silly. In a million years, I would never ask/require him to sit down to pee. I'd be laughed out of the house so fast, and left to pet the 20 pussycats he'd have delivered the next day.
Tru at July 27, 2009 10:40 AM
"Just cause you're a pussy that can't talk to his own wife life a man about things that bug him, doesn't mean everyone is.
Posted by: momof4 at July 27, 2009 10:19 AM"
Yes'm, because we all know he didn't do that and get chewed out by the "boss" thus realizing he had two options. Her way or the highway.
I don't really care how you worked it out with your husband or his choice, if it works for you both fine but you'll have to get off your high horse dearie if you don't think most men and many women might be skeptical that it was a mutual decision these days. Sad as it is, its a fact of culture.
Sio at July 27, 2009 10:42 AM
momof4. I'm shocked at this shit flying at you.
I understand that for most stay at home partners their main role in the family is house-stuff (taking care of most kid stuff, shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc.).
But really - if someone objects to wiping up a grown person's piss that is somehow lazy? Or controlling?
What if I made a mess on the toilet during my period and left it there? Would I honestly expect my fiance to 1) not be grossed out 2) not think I should clean it up? 3) Would he want to invite anyone over to the house knowing they might go into the bathroom to find nastiness everywhere?
This is a GROWN UP we're discussing, not a 2 year old who is just learning how to use his dick and doesn't understand the words "wipe up your pee". I'll grant that the process doesn't sound like a perfect science, in which case a small amount of wiping is necessary on behalf of the pee-er. I'd never fault a guy for not being able to do it w/o any mess, men and their body parts are wonderful things. But expecting someone to wipe up after you is self-important and rude.
Doing a dude's laundry while he makes the bucks versus cleaning up his piss is vastly different. I'll do D's laundry if I don't have to work. But if he starts expecting me to clean up his bathroom uh-oh's it'll be about two weeks before I stop viewing him as a partner and start viewing him as my kid.
Luckily, my guy and I both work and we both wipe up our own piss. It's a truly wonderful relationship that we have.
Gretchen at July 27, 2009 10:50 AM
"most men and many women might be skeptical that it was a mutual decision these days. Sad as it is, its a fact of culture."
These are serious questions to everyone who think mo4 is being a controlling dbag:
Do you really think that peeing on the seat is not gross? That it doesn't bother other people who need to actually sit down on the seat to pee that they have to come in close contact with your urine? I don't care that it was sterile as it left your body.
If you lived alone or only with male room mates, would peeing on the seat not be an issue? It's just an issue now that you live with a woman?
When you lived alone, pre-marriage, did you clean the bathroom? Scrub the toilet?
I find that for most men, cleanliness standards are more lax than women's. In which case why SHOULD a guy change his behavior to please a woman, who is more of a neat freak?
That said, I think that it's a given that compromises must occur in relationships and that as far as those go, being asked simply to wipe up your urine is more than fair - especially if it's the requestor's job to do the actual (or whatever) toilet scrub down every so often.
Gretchen at July 27, 2009 11:00 AM
I'm with Amy on this - peeing is just not a couples topic.
Just like neither my wife nor I would ever give the other unsolicited fashion advice. We both are adults with our own personal taste, each deciding for themself what s/he wants to wear.
Nor do we tell each other what toiletries to buy. In 20+ years of marriage, we wound up sacrificing 1 bottle of cologne that one of us couldn't stand. The rest is as you please, according to your personal taste.
We quickly learned which items each one considered generic (and subject to substitution if there's a sale/coupon) and which are strong personal preferences.
So?
Ben-David at July 27, 2009 11:01 AM
"Oooh, Sean is a bitter divorced man.
...
I don't have anger issues, I just can't tolerate stupidity or assumption-making. Or assholes."
Not bitter at all. Thrilled is more like it. I was the one who dumped her. And we were never married.
Sounds like you made a bad assumption. Which is pretty stupid and makes you look like an asshole.
You should bring this up for discussion in your next therapy session.
sean at July 27, 2009 11:01 AM
"Do you really think that peeing on the seat is not gross? "
Who said anything about peeing on the seat? That is gross. I thought we were talking about peeing with the seat up. I'd never not lift the seat before going and I put it down when I'm finished if there are other people living in the house. That's just common courtesy.
I think psychomomof4 is talking about splash on the floor or rim.
sean at July 27, 2009 11:05 AM
"Not bitter at all. Thrilled is more like it. I was the one who dumped her. And we were never married."
As you should be b/c it sounds like you married a jerk. But does that mean a woman who doesn't enjoy touching her husband's pee is a controlling, maniacal, man-hating cunt?
Or just interested in not being his mama?
Again. Touching each other's bodily fluids can NOT be good for romance. A lot of stuff that happens once you live together or are with the same person for years isn't good for romance. I find it beneficial to choose not to care about some stuff and to do what I can to keep him happy. Like, he's weird about baking sheets. So random. He hates when they get brown - which happens unless you never cook or always use tin foil (or go raw trying to scrub them for 30 minutes after each use). I've gone to make dinner only to find he threw out a perfectly good, albeit slightly browned, pan. So instead I just make sure to always use tin foil. Easy enough and he's happy. Not a big fuckin' deal. Requests can come from both sides.
Gretchen at July 27, 2009 11:09 AM
I think psychomomof4 is talking about splash on the floor or rim.
So a dude doesn't need to clean up his pee if he gets it on the rim or the floor? I'm really trying to understand, here. It seems that if your pee lands anywhere but in the water, you need to clean it up.
MonicaP at July 27, 2009 11:11 AM
"But does that mean a woman who doesn't enjoy touching her husband's pee is a controlling, maniacal, man-hating cunt?"
A woman who orders her husband to sit while peeing is ... you fill in the blank.
"So a dude doesn't need to clean up his pee if he gets it on the rim or the floor? I'm really trying to understand, here. It seems that if your pee lands anywhere but in the water, you need to clean it up."
I'm with you on that. I just don't think a bathroom floor needs to be sterile. You can take a leak while standing and not cause a mess. Or even a slight mess. It is possible. No need to order the hubby to sit like he's a dog. Just tell him to clean it up if he makes a mess.
IF being the operative word.
sean at July 27, 2009 11:18 AM
"I think psychomomof4 is talking about splash on the floor or rim."
If splash happens it happens but it still requires someone clean it up...
...but to touch on what I said before: some people might genuinely not give a damn if there are dried up pee puddles on the floor, rim or where ever else this stuff lands. And they don't care if the bathroom smells slightly of urine.
I happen to give a damn and would think it a reasonable to request to the pee sprayer to clean it up.
Gretchen at July 27, 2009 11:27 AM
I think I've pissed away enough of my time on this thread. So to speak.
sean at July 27, 2009 11:58 AM
"'To Catch a Predator' proves that all men should be treated as sex offenders until they prove they aren't." That got her on the wrong side of most of the guys here, and so far there's been no apology or explanation."
Bullshit. I never said that. I said I can see how SOME people get paranoid, given that shows like that have never had a woman offender and are on all the time. Period. If other's reading comprehension lacks, that's not my fault.
"Just tell him to clean it up if he makes a mess."
What part of he got to choose clean or sit do you not understand? You've proven you have issues reading, but that's pretty 1st grade here. No ordering like a dog. There are 2 ways to solve the problem, pick one and move on. Like you need to do.
momof4 at July 27, 2009 12:10 PM
I've learned that with "low" toilets, one can stand with bent knees to lower the distance between one's penis and the toilet, thereby lessening any splashing while retaining a sense of manliness.
A "Eureka" moment!
Thomas Fullery at July 27, 2009 12:40 PM
My husband didn't learn to pee standing up until his teens, because his dad worked and lived out of town and his mother and sister were (and are) misandrists who did their best to feminize him.
He ended up going to an all-male university, joining a fraternal organization and being a scotch-drinking, cigar-chomping man's man. Basically everything the women in his family abhor. Too bad, if they'd let him be a normal boy maybe he'd have developed feminist leanings all on his own.
You know what? He does get pee on the toilet sometimes. I roll my eyes and wipe it off, and when we do our housekeeping scrubbing the toilets is his task.
notforthiscomment at July 27, 2009 12:48 PM
I do have to agree that women who sprinkle when they hover really need to wipe the seat when they are done. Or, unless the seat is really gross, just sit on the damn thing. I've never gotten ass cooties from a toilet seat.
MonicaP at July 27, 2009 12:48 PM
This whole thing just pisses me off! o.O
Flynne at July 27, 2009 1:01 PM
It's so strange to me to define your manhood by standing. My husband was military. I'm quite sure he's a man. He just doesn't see it as a big deal. I made a request that would lessen my workload and make me happier, he really didn't give a shit about the issue, and complied.
When he says "you know, I'd really like if you wore _____, or cooked _____", it makes him happier so I comply. Even if it's something I wouldn't do if I lived alone. It's called a relationship.
momof4 at July 27, 2009 1:12 PM
Question for anyone who read the entire opinion: How old was the boy when his parents split up? How come the dad didn't teach him to pee standing up when he was three? Instead he waited until age 15 to make an issue of it?
Down boys. The mom sounds like a piece of work, too.
And I long for the time I never have to hear the words from the bathroom, "Uh oh mama."
JulieA at July 27, 2009 1:25 PM
And early on in life my dad said, "You can learn to pee standing up or you can stay home when we go camping." Camping in the absolute middle of nowhere was one of the joys of my childhood. And to this day I can pee on my feet with the best of them.
Does that make my dad a controlling "masculating" father?
JulieA at July 27, 2009 1:28 PM
Guys sitting down to pee is weird, in my book. Really, it would make me wonder...it just seems so unnatural to me. I and my husband are so laid back that we pee with the door open while continuing our conversations all the time, so I am certainly well acquainted with his toilet habits. Although privacy is still awarded for pooping!
Our solution to the toilet seat deal is that after he pees, he leaves it up, and after I pee, I leave it down. Mutual disrespect. And we both clean the toilet, whenever it gets to us. Honestly, I would never hassle him about cleaning his errant drops on the floor or putting down the toilet seat (unless we had women guests).
liz at July 27, 2009 1:39 PM
For me it depends: During the day I stand and deliver. For that matter I'll occasionally just go outside -- but I am the definition of rural.
At night, I'll sit -- I have enough light to find the throne, but am not wearing my glasses and don't want the bright light to wake me up.
Jim P. at July 27, 2009 1:55 PM
BF's ex wanted him to kneel to pee, because she was tired of washing the rug (you know, the funky one with the space cut out so you can fit it around the bowl?). He thought that was weird, because she washed the rug at least once a week anyway. I know he stands most of the time, but I also know he sits when he gets up in the middle of the night. And like liz and her husband, whenever either of us sees it needs to be cleaned, we clean it. Same thing with taking out the garbage - he does it most of the time, but if I see it needs to go out and he's busy with something else, I'll do it. No big shakes either way.
Flynne at July 27, 2009 2:02 PM
The rug really tied the room together.
Conan the Grammarian at July 27, 2009 2:13 PM
When God created Adam and Eve he gave them each very similar characteristics, and a few different ones.
God had the final two differences and gave Adam the first choice. Upon being told that the first one was the ability to pee standing up Adam happily agreed and went off to pee on a tree. Grinning broadly as he returned he asks God "what was the second choice anyway?" God responds "multiple orgasms".
Red at July 27, 2009 2:24 PM
Conan, he peed on her fucking rug! And I'll bet he owes money all over town.
Oh, piss on it.
Pirate Jo at July 27, 2009 4:37 PM
What does it mean if a guy sits down to piss? Probably that he has to take a shit too.
As far as the father's concerns, hell he's probably just concerned that the boy's mother is trying to turn him into a shy little girly momma's boy. Yeah, the world needs another one of those.
How the boy takes a piss is...well rather minor.
Robert at July 27, 2009 5:37 PM
Dude, he peed on the rug?
brian at July 27, 2009 6:06 PM
I'm sure if he had to ask permission to go to the bathroom, that would be a prominent fact of this case.
Posted by: lovelysoul
lovelysoul you'd be amazed at the things never mentioned and blatently ignored in custdoy cases
lujlp at July 27, 2009 6:52 PM
> The rug really tied the room
> together.
I love this blog.
But no more potty talk for 2009, otay? Let's get sexual again.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 27, 2009 7:12 PM
"Touching each other's bodily fluids can NOT be good for romance."
Hmmm. I thought that exchange of such was a pretty key part of romance...
Spartee at July 27, 2009 7:17 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/27/what_does_it_me.html#comment-1660039">comment from RobertWhat does it mean if a guy sits down to piss?
Gregg: "It's hard to read a magazine standing up."
Amy Alkon at July 27, 2009 7:21 PM
It's not when they're touching your bodily fluids that you have to worry. It's when they're trying to steal your precious bodily fluids that things get scary.
Conan the Grammarian at July 27, 2009 10:22 PM
momof4, I'm quoting you from the other thread: "Yes, there is hysteria about men and kids. On the other hand, it's not totally baseless. We've all seen those To Catch a Predator 20/20's. Not once, it the however many years they've been doing this, has a woman responded."
So why don't you explain again what you meant by this? Maybe you didn't mean what this implies, but if you didn't, then why bring it up in the first place? Lately, I've noticed that whenever you show up, the thread goes to hell. And I can understand why -- because you appear to want to be taken seriously, but comments like the above smack of trolling.
Cousin Dave at July 27, 2009 10:54 PM
"Dude, he peed on the rug?
Posted by: brian at July 27, 2009 6:06 PM"
Don't be fatuous, he was there to fix the cable.
Sio at July 27, 2009 11:33 PM
"What does it mean if a guy sits down to piss?"
For me it means I'm drunk. No problem.
Roger at July 28, 2009 4:51 AM
Unfortunately, this discussion is missing the big picture.
If your son starts to be "shy" about peeing with other males and using the cubical to pee then you really should be worried. It is a sign that they might be being sexually abused - not always, but it can be a big red flag.
Sexual preditors with a pechant for young boys frequently target them through this activity. If a boy is feeling vunerable whilst doing this it is likely someone has made him feel vulnerable.
Also it is worth noticing that micromanaging a teenagers life to the point that you control how they pee almost never ends up well. If memory serves me the lack of self assuredness it breeds is reported as a major factor in most serial killers makeup.
As regards wether you should pee standing up in your own home - who really gives a damn. I *never* pee in front of my lady - it is too familar and removes a little of the space that we both need.
I can understand someone complaining if I peed on their floor and didn't clear it up, but in my house I am the one who usually cleans the toilet - because I have the most sensitive nose.
And for heavens sake put the damn lid down before you flush..otherwise water droplets spread in a large area around the toilet.
Mr H at July 28, 2009 5:00 AM
Sorry Cousin Dave, I can say what I want here just like you. And I intend to keep doing so.
momof4 at July 28, 2009 5:52 AM
Sure you can. And the rest of us can dismiss you as being a troll.
Cousin Dave at July 28, 2009 6:54 AM
Why does that make her a troll? You know she's not. She's been here forever. She was just stating a fact. No woman has ever been "caught" on that show. There are probably several reasons for this, such as the producer's aversions to featuring a female predator, so it's not necessarily a statistically sound observation. Yet, I think momof4's point is that this creates a sort of paranoia about male child molestors. Her point was valid.
My male cousin, an assistant DA, who has made a career prosecuting child predators, was just raided by the FBI because they found him in a chatroom talking to (who he apparently thought was) a 15 yr old. No charges have been filed yet, and my family, of course, doesn't want to believe it. He's the perfect example of the last person you'd suspect.
lovelysoul at July 28, 2009 7:08 AM
Chatting sexually... or just chatting?
Because if they are arresting people for just chatting with kids it has gone too far.
I don't think momof3 is a troll. Or 4, or whatever the number is these days. I don't always agree with her, but I don't think she's a troll.
NicoleK at July 28, 2009 7:50 AM
Off Topic:
NicoleK said: "And if you are Amy, please post the fabled second letter. I am so jealous of all the other people who get to read them! Are they online on some town's newspaper?"
Ah-ha! You have discovered the secret second letter!
My alt-weekly recently dropped Amy's column :-( [Yet for some reason they kept those goofy, stupid horoscopes!]. But, you can read the whole thing here:
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sections/life/columns/amyalkon/
cornerdemon at July 28, 2009 4:43 PM
Anybuddy still in here?
Good.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 28, 2009 7:44 PM
See also.
Crid [CridComment@gmail] at July 28, 2009 11:11 PM
Maybe he's just having lunch here.
Conan the Grammarian at July 29, 2009 9:29 AM
"It was more he'd never had to clean up after himself till me. Fuck yourself, Jeff, since I am sure you can't get anyone else to with that entitled attitude. "
Oh. I thought Jeff was referring to the DH who didn't clean up after himself. The comment didn't make any sense to me any other way.
OTOH, those of you who are marvelling at the shit momof4 is catching have to be pretty clueless. "Check your privelege" is the feminsts term of art, I think.
"Again. Touching each other's bodily fluids can NOT be good for romance."
Gretch, never been with a woman, I see.
Jim at July 29, 2009 9:42 AM
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