When And Where Is It Okay For Kids To Be Naked?
Julie Scelfo writes for the NYT/MSNBC about the parents who let their kids run around without clothes on and the parents who are appalled by it. A 5-year-old named Alex got naked, then asked his sister and her friend to paint designs on his little butt with nail polish. His mom was okay with it; the friend's mom wasn't:
"The mom was sort of appalled that Alex got naked in front of her daughter," Mrs. Nicola said. "She expressed concern that we hadn't talked enough about private parts. She said, 'In our family, we always talk about how certain parts of the body are not for anyone else to touch.' "For many parents, allowing a child to run around naked at home is perfectly natural, an expression of physical freedom that represents the essence of childhood, especially in the summer. But for others, unclad bodies are an affront to civility, a source of discomfort and a potentially dangerous attraction for pedophiles. These clashing sensibilities can create conflict, even when the nudity in question takes place at home.
Often, the differences in viewpoint are generational. Rachel Sarah, 36, a writer and mother in East Bay, Calif., said that until her 9-year-old daughter, Mae, turned 7, she liked to wear only a T-shirt in the summer, a preference that Ms. Sarah found healthy, but that Mae's grandparents could not accept. "My mom and stepfather were very insistent on her having clothes on for everything," Ms. Sarah said.
Although most days Mae ran half-dressed through the sprinkler or played with friends under a hose, she had to accept different rules when her grandparents were around. "Their view, I would say, is that little girls need to have their clothes on unless they're taking a bath," Ms. Sarah said.
Aly Mandel, 41, a school psychologist and mother of five in Highland Park, N.J., said she, too, felt ire from extended family members for allowing her daughter Ava, now 6, to roam naked in and around the house when she was younger.
"My mother, it used to drive her crazy how naked Ava was," Ms. Mandel said, explaining that the girl abhorred clothes. "My mother-in-law also, they both felt it crossed the line of what was appropriate. My mother-in-law would come in and automatically say, 'Ava, put on your clothes. Put on your underwear.' "
My neighbors' kids would tear through their house naked after their baths. Now, the little boy, who's 9, doesn't do it, but the little girl, about 5, does. It's hilarious. I don't know this based on anything solid, but I would guess kids grow up more comfortable with their bodies and nudity if they're allowed to run around in the buff. Also, it's my experience with the French, Germans, various Scandinavians, and other Europeans with more relaxed attitudes about nudity. Then again, all the last people you'd ever want to see naked are all the first people to strip down on Europe's nude beaches.
via ifeminist
This is simple, and it crosses cultural lines, too: if you think evil things when you see a nude body, it is you, not the nude, who is evil.
If all you see is sexual meat when you look at a girl or woman, it is you, not the girl or woman, who utterly fails to understand how much more there is to her.
Don't lie to yourself, and don't let others displace the responsibility of looking on their fellows with respect.
Radwaste at July 28, 2009 2:00 AM
In the US, apparently it's never OK. Note that on broadcast TV, even a baby's behind is taboo.
hanmeng at July 28, 2009 3:17 AM
In our house, nudity is A-Ok unless we have company. That's just polite. My kids do get the "private parts" thing. Around family is ok, other people is not. Back yard is ok, front yard is not.
Other kids naked doesn't bother me. They're kids. Non-sexual adult nudity doesn't bother me either. Austin is still pretty hippie, and one will occasionally come across a naked person sunbathing in a more secluded part of the greenbelt. Who cares?
momof4 at July 28, 2009 5:47 AM
Yeah, I really want a bunch of naked kids leaving skidmarks on my couch.
JoJo at July 28, 2009 6:33 AM
Naked little kids don't bother me much, outside in the backyard, running through the sprinkler, hopping in and out of the pool. But, I'm with JoJo. You come inside, put on a pair of pants (or a diaper or whatever) before you sit on the furniture. Other than that, who cares, really? They're little kids!
And yeah, what Raddy said.
Flynne at July 28, 2009 6:38 AM
Being comfortable with your body is a desirable goal for everyone, but nudity makes some other people uncomfortable, so we wear clothes, especially in public.
We also adjust our clothing based on other circumstances. We don't wear bikinis when visiting the Amish. When we go to the grandparents' traditional church we dress up compared to how we dress at our casual church.
It's just being polite.
Pseudonym at July 28, 2009 6:42 AM
I disagree. My boyfriend has 2 boys aged 5 and 7. They both use the bathroom with the door open and run around naked in front of me, waving their penises and shaking their butts. I would prefer that they be dressed in at least underwear while I am there. At some point children do need to learn to not run around naked in front of the opposite sex - including their parent (of the opposite sex). I think this age is about 6 or 7.
Karin at July 28, 2009 6:49 AM
I was raised in one of those famously-relaxed-towards-nudity European countries. Topless at the swimming pool, boobs on the subway advertisements, nudity on midday TV shows, the works.
I don't have an issue with kids noodling around naked (except for whole peeing on the carpet thing, which has happened to me).
But I think the point of this article was how to handle it when two belief systems about the appropriateness of child nudity collide. I think that as a guest, politeness is incumbent upon you, and as a host, the comfort of your guests is your responsibility.
So, no, when your child is a guest at another person's house, that is not the time to allow them to be naked if you know that the hosting person would be uncomfortable with it. Nor should you invite guests and then disregard their discomfort by allowing your children to be nude. I think that has less to do with nudity than it does with teaching your children the finer points of being a good guest or host.
I don't think that being uncomfortable with seeing a naked child automatically means that you are 'thinking evil things.' I know if I were a man and a guest at someone's house, and they allowed their children to be nude, I would be extremely uncomfortable-remember the post Amy made earlier about a grandfather getting the police called on him because he was entertaining his own toddler-age grandchild at a McDonald's? If you are a man and invited to an acquaintance's house for dinner, and their child or children are running around nude, how can you assume that you are not being set up?
(And please don't call me alarmist-a career that often intersects with issues of legality that hinge around the he said/she said issues of office harrassment have really shown me how some people are determined to find wrongdoing in any situation. I have observed several cases go to litigation where the actual fact of any wrongdoing was utterly disregarded in favor of delivering a judgement based solely on how the 'injured' party interpreted something. Verdicts were delivered that were admittedly based on one person's interpretation of a situation.)
But since I am not a man, I'll throw out this question-say you are invited to an acquaintance's house for the first time. You arrive and they have young children, whatever the gender, who are allowed to interact with adults they don't know (you) while naked. What would you do? Would you be comfortable accepting subsequent invitations from that person if you knew that it would likely happen again?
Choika at July 28, 2009 7:00 AM
"Ms. Mandel said, explaining that the girl abhorred clothes."
Well then. By all means let the kid run around naked.
I wonder how much of this is just parents letting their kids do whatever the hell they want.
Would anyone want to be seated next to one of these families in a restaurant?
sean at July 28, 2009 7:04 AM
Or perhaps more to the point-my partner and I spend most of our time when we are together in the house naked. We both cook, clean, etc. while naked or mostly undressed.
Why? It's comfortable. I like it.
But we put clothes on when guests come over, even our closest friends. They would be uncomfortable with it. And my comfort is not more important to me than my guests'. I feel that it is showing the same kind of courtesy to others that I do when I make sure to wear appropriate clothes to certain events, even when I'd prefer to be wearing something else. I am not so selfish that my comfort outweighs any other consideration. And that is the attitude that most of the parents in this article seem to have.
At that point, I believe it is less about communicating a healthy attitude to your children about their bodies than it is disregarding others' feelings so that you can do what you want.
Choika at July 28, 2009 7:08 AM
Little kids run around naked. That's what little kids do. After about five or six they start to generally keep their clothes on, especially when company is over.
Asking to have his butt painted is a little weird though.
Elle at July 28, 2009 7:22 AM
Asking to have his butt painted is a little weird though.
Not much wierder than my friends little boy asking to have his fingernails painted.
He sees his mom and older sister paint their fingers and toe nails. And the 10 year old girl has done her toes with faces al'a ICarly on Nickelodeon.
So out of the norm -- yes; far out, no.
Jim P. at July 28, 2009 7:34 AM
But why do kids start keeping their clothes at 5 or 6? Because they become more able to pick up the messages from others that it is inappropriate to be naked in certain situations. They start noticing others' discomfort.
But if the child's parents insulate that child from experiencing and learning how to react to others' discomfort, what then? Part of learning to interact with others is learning how to interpret signals that indicate someone is uncomfortable/upset/disturbed, what have you, by your behavior. If a child is prevented from learning that by parents who disregard anyone else's feelings in regards to their child's behavior (and not just nudity-how many parents ignore their childrens' poor behavior in public because they choose to favor not having to deal with it over being courteous to others?) they're probably going to have a harder time later.
I suspect most people remember 'that kid' from elementary school-you know, the one that was nice enough but no one really wanted to be friends with, because they didn't have a sense of what was appropriate and when? While I'm not saying that allowing your kid to be naked sometimes is automatically going to make them a misfit later on (duh-Europe!), I don't think parents are doing their kids any favors by preventing them from learning how to make those artful compromises that allow people to live in relative harmony with each other.
Choika at July 28, 2009 7:37 AM
First of all, lipstick, facepaints, or other water-soluble non-toxic paints would be a better choice than nailpolish on skin.
Second of all, in public up until the age of 4 or 5 I would say its fine. After that, on a case-by-case basis. If it is a family of nudists, I would suggest putting clothes on when non-nudists come over.
But I don't think there is any age when it is "wrong" to be naked in front of other people. Particularly in one's own home or in a locker room or on a nude beach.
I don't get dressed until I leave the house, usually... I'll put a towel down if I sit on something, but I prefer to clean the house naked, as I don't like the feeling of wet clothes. I'm very clumsy, so I inevitably splash myself while doing dishes or mopping. It's better to just be nude and hop in the shower and get dressed before going out.
Don't know how that'll play out when I have kids, though.
NicoleK at July 28, 2009 7:47 AM
Little kids running around naked in their houses or yards is fine... but I was in a fairly akward situation recently: Our friends let their kids skinny dip (they are 6, 4, and 2), which is fine. Afterwards, though, the older boy came over to his mother and me and kept asking me to look at his penis. Mom thought it was funny. I tried my hardest to shrug it off and made a joke about how he probably shouldn't ask the girls in his kindergarten class to do that when school starts. Anyway, I'm pretty sure he KNEW he was making me uncomfortable. I really don't like being asked by little kids to look at their wienies.
ahw at July 28, 2009 8:10 AM
"Yeah, I really want a bunch of naked kids leaving skidmarks on my couch."
They don't wipe??
momof4 at July 28, 2009 8:47 AM
"They don't wipe??"
QuatroMom, we're talking about average kids. Not your perfect kids.
sean at July 28, 2009 8:50 AM
momof4, I believe sean's problem is that the kids WILL wipe.
I think the problem is we're stupid Aamericans. IIRC, Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) had the hero posting a sign near the front door reading something like, "Remember your clothes!"
jerry at July 28, 2009 9:34 AM
Excellent comments, Choika. There is a time and place for (most) everything. One might think that France is more liberal about nudity, but they are actually culturally very conservative in the sense that some things are just "not done". Publicly, the French are extemely reserved, and while you will see boobs in ads in the métro, you will not see naked kids running around public parks.
However, with increasing multiculturalism (which is just now becoming lauded in France, having the bad knack of importing all of the worst ideas of the U.S.), the cultural cues are quickly disappearing. However, instead of making people more liberal, it seems to be increasing rigidity. A big segment of the French population is becoming downright reactionary. But that is another topic.
liz at July 28, 2009 11:55 AM
I wasn't aware kids had to be perfect to wipe. Or that parents were unable to make sure they were in fact clean down there, as it's a health issue as much as a cleanliness one.
Original comment was tongue-in-cheek, but I responded just for you, Sean!!
momof4 at July 28, 2009 12:04 PM
"he last people you'd ever want to see naked are all the first people to strip down"
Twas ever thus and will so remain, in perpetuity, throughout the universe.
Sidebar generalization: the more nekkid the pop star, the lower the quality of music.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at July 28, 2009 12:10 PM
>> Back yard is ok, front yard is not.
This reminds me of:
http://copylicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/funfountain.jpg
My sisters and I use to paint each other with water-colors (neeekid). Whatever, this woman's concerns seem a tad disproportionate to the situation. Most kids don't think much past "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we....."
I think Radwaste hit the nail on the head in the first posting. Wonder what her deal is?
Feebie at July 28, 2009 12:13 PM
I remember running through the sprinkler in my underwear. I also remember the first time I realized it wasn't okay to run around topless.
I was about 6. We stopped at the beach on a particularly hot night on the way home from my grandparents' house. I wanted to go swimming so my parents said to go for it. I did what I normally might - run into the ocean in my underwear. Well, for whatever reason I became extremely self-conscious. I believe there was a boy there. I didn't register him as being attractive but I do remember feeling like "hm. I don't think I want to be topless right now." Or however my thoughts were worded when I was 6.
And then I stopped. No big deal.
If a kid is old enough to have some semblance of sexual consciousness then that kid probably shouldn't run around naked. I don't know if that's an actual stage in a person's psychological development but I think that it's about age 7 or 8. How did I come up with that? Based on my sample set of one: I was 7 1/2 when I had my very first crush. His name was P.J. I liked to sit next to him during story time. If I tried to be naked in front of him then I think there would have been something off with me.
Gretchen at July 28, 2009 1:06 PM
I want NikcoleK to clean my house. I'll send my 9 year old to run around naked at my parents house on cleaning day.
sterling at July 28, 2009 1:42 PM
Raswaste, Feebie, her deal is that he is a boy and therefore a sexual deviant and potential rapist targeting her daughter
lujlp at July 28, 2009 1:48 PM
I've discovered over the years that frying food is also more enjoyable when clothed.
jerry at July 28, 2009 2:26 PM
It's wrong for me to be naked in front of people other than my wife. It's just too dangerous: one look and someone will never be satisfied by their partner again. Who am I to go around ruining marriages and breaking up families?
Plus when it happens in the locker room it's really embarrassing.
Pseudonym at July 28, 2009 7:11 PM
"Then again, all the last people you'd ever want to see naked are all the first people to strip down on Europe's nude beaches."
Not completely true; when I was on a topless beach in Nice there were plenty of gorgeous young women exposing themselves.
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