"Not Proud To Be Gay"
Loved this take by my occasional drinking buddy, B. Daniel Blatt, aka Gay Patriot West:
Given the attempts by many on the left to discredit opponents of Obamacare by tarring them as racists, it does seem so many people are so fixated on race that they assume anyone objecting to the policies of a black politicians must needs be racist. And yet, as America moves away from the ugly legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, more and more of us have come to share the vision of Dr. King's great dream that we be judged not by the color of our skin but by the content of our character.Still, however, all too many remain fixated not just on the color of our skin, but on any identifying characteristic which separates us from the "norm." And perhaps because that characteristic put us in a disfavored class, we reply by becoming proud of our difference.
With gay people, the pride replaces the shame previous generations thoughts about our difference. Perhaps, had I come of age a decade or so before I did, I might feel proud to be gay, but I don't. I'm not ashamed of it. It's just part of who I am. One characteristic among many.
Kaus had a good post about this yesterday... Obama's attractions as a public figure gave us a whirlwind romance, and we don't really know what this guy's about. And we're learning.
(Many details lost: See original).
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 21, 2009 11:30 PM
Why should I be proud to be gay? It's like being proud of preferring chocolate to vanilla. I didn't choose my palate. My sexual orientation is not an accomplishment for which I can take credit.
I think, however, "gay and proud" is to mean that I have a right to be proud of my accomplishments and that homosexuality is not a stigma that neutralizes every accomplishment and regardless of whatever good I do, I must live being totally ashamed of myself. And that is a sentiment I can get behind.
Patrick at September 21, 2009 11:43 PM
Crid writes:
Personally, I felt I knew everything about Obama that I needed to while he was running. His success only convinces me that he's the beneficiary of a double standard that will make allowances for African-Americans that it wouldn't make for whites.
There is no way in hell I would vote for a white candidate who attended a white supremacist church for twenty years, and who downplayed his relationship to a "guilty as hell, but free as a bird" domestic terrorist like Ayers. Obama refers to him as just a guy in his neighborhood. Ah, no. Obama's political career was launched in Ayers' living room. Ayers is a friend and benefactor to Obama.
I believe the liberals sold out every principle they had to vote for this man. They were so enamored of the opportunity to vote for a black man, that they blinded themselves to the fact that he's a racist with close associations with domestic terrorists, an allowance they would never in a million years make for a white candidate.
Patrick at September 21, 2009 11:49 PM
Racism still exists: in the minds of those who look for every opportunity to be offended. It provides a way to demand special treatment that they do not deserver and would otherwise never receive.
bradley13 at September 22, 2009 2:33 AM
There is no way in hell I would vote for a white candidate who attended a white supremacist church for twenty years,
Great point.
Amy Alkon at September 22, 2009 5:15 AM
My husband and I have a new friend that is gay. He sat us down a couple of weeks ago and said,
"I just wanted to sit y'all down and tell you...I'm gay."
My husband's response:
"Was it supposed to be a secret?"
Ya gotta love him. :-)
-Julie
Julie at September 22, 2009 10:08 AM
Gay composer Ned Rorem (now almost 86) once said:
"Black Pride and Gay Pride are dangerous slogans, like White Pride or Straight Pride. Gay and Black are not achievements but accidents of birth. One must not be ashamed, but that's not the same thing as being proud. Pride should lie only in what one does with one's blackness or gayness."
lenona at September 22, 2009 10:18 AM
I think "Gay and Proud" is more akin to "Gay and Not Ashamed of It" than it is an expression of pride in one's sexuality.
They didn't do it overnight. It was a process. They (like most political organizations - including ACORN) began selling their principals bit by bit years ago.
They looked the the other way while Bill Clinton made a bordello of the White House. They demanded recount after recount in Florida under whatever rules would give them their way. They stole the gubenatorial election in Washington. They [most likely] stole the Senate election in Minnesota. They stood by while ACORN registered phony voter after phony voter. They've ignored (or tried to) the ethical lapses of William Jefferson, Charles Schumer, Chris Dodd, and Barney Frank. They nominated John Kerry because he had a military record, not because he stood for anything. Paul Tsongas and Daniel Patrick Moynihan would weep if they could see this bunch. Even Tip O'Neill would wonder what has become of his party.
The Republicans have been little better. The same Republican party that trooped to the White House in 1972 to urge Nixon to resign on principal has become the party that spent like drunken sailors when they gained control of Congress; the party that begged GW Bush to run because they needed a Southern governor in order to win (throwing fiscal conservative principals out the window); the party that couldn't nominate a successful business leader like Romney because his religious credentials weren't in order. Abraham Lincoln and Barry Goldwater are rolling over in their graves.
The rest of us are just rolling over and taking it in the shorts from whichever party is holding the reins this week.
Conan the Grammarian at September 22, 2009 10:33 AM
> I think "Gay and Proud" is more
> akin to "Gay and Not Ashamed of
> It" than it is an expression of
> pride in one's sexuality
If only. If only.
Time and again we see the noisemaking elements of gay "rights" movements ("gay marriage", for example) eager to broadcast descriptions of their most intimate feelings as though they conveyed righteousness, as does a child talking about poop at dinner. At the base is a belief –a prayer, at least– that distant people will find fascination with one's most intimate conditions.
But we do not.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 22, 2009 11:17 AM
While we're on gay, here's something that's amused me for a while now, ever since the beginning of the Tea Parties. The left and their defenders seem to have no problem with disparaging those who participate in these demonstrations by using the term "teabagger", which (I understand), among other things, can be and has been used as a derogatory term for a gay man. I haven't heard the GLBT community say anything about this. Seems like ad hominem invective is OK, as long as it's used against the opponents of the invective's object. Interesting.
cpabroker at September 22, 2009 11:32 AM
Gay "pride" is akin to affirmative action programs. Intended to remedy past injustice (which is, of course, impossible), the problem of discrimination -- the sense of "otherness" -- is only perpetuated, rather than being allowed to just fade into oblivion as an old-fashioned, counter-productive concept.
It is by the actions of the quiet, steadfast same-sex couple who live down the block that society's prejudice against gays will eventually be extinguished, not by a fella wearing ass-less chaps in public on Halloween, nor by histrionic demands that the very definition of the word "marriage" be changed so that gay couples can feel socially validated. Decriminalization and social tolerance is no longer enough -- society at large must be forced to accept that homosexual activity is "just as good" as heterosexual activity. The more force applied, however, the longer this will take.
Inspiring tolerance and acceptance in others by in-your-face confrontation is never the best tactic, in my opinion. Actions speak louder than words, and love is a more powerful motivator than hostility.
Jay R at September 22, 2009 12:07 PM
"Gay pride" is a useful phase for a person to pas through as he is coming out of the closet. As he matures past that, he drops it.
"Black Pride and Gay Pride are dangerous slogans, like White Pride or Straight Pride. Gay and Black are not achievements but accidents of birth."
Well I'm proud to be an American. That's not something I achieved; I didn't do that for myself, my various groups of ancestors did that for me, and I'm proud of them too. And in this world where plenty of people hate us, it's important to express that pride, at least until the French and British and German versions of the Boomers all die off.
"those who participate in these demonstrations by using the term "teabagger", which (I understand), among other things, can be and has been used as a derogatory term for a gay man. "
I've never heard it used that way. If it has, that is a very marginal usage. To me it has always sounded like a fratboy stunt at one of their brain-dead parties.
Jim at September 22, 2009 1:50 PM
"those who participate in these demonstrations by using the term "teabagger", which (I understand), among other things, can be and has been used as a derogatory term for a gay man. "
My understanding of the word 'teabagging' is when a man strattles the head of his sexual partner and dunks his testicles in and out of the partner's mouth.
To me it sounds like a good solid way to get a nose full of ass or scrotum, depending on your physical orientation.
-Julie
Julie at September 22, 2009 1:57 PM
Oh.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 22, 2009 4:24 PM
I'd have to agree, why is it a source of pride to love the cock? Damned silliness. Not wanting to be oppressed because of orientation, yeah, I get that, I'm cool with that, what two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business. But come on...gay pride? Lets get real here. Its not important enough to be proud of, and since its not a choice, its certainly not an accomplishment...so why should it be "celebrated".
I think it was the comedian Ralphie May who said:
Folks I'm not homophobic okay, I'm gas conscious. I don't want to have to drive a 15 mile detour so little bunny foo foo can march up and down the street and say hurray for dick I like it in the ass. And whats the big deal about sucking dick anyway? Ladies y'all suck dick and you don't get a parade, whats up with that?
Robert at September 22, 2009 10:28 PM
I dunno. I've never been to the parade in West Hollywood, can't even remember what time of year it happens, but people say it's as much fun as you can have in public. The Doo Dah's a close second, the Tournament of Roses is a distant third.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 23, 2009 12:10 AM
I wrote:
The Goddess replies:
That sentiment pretty much cost me every liberal friend I've ever had. And when I brought it up on a message board, the liberal faction turned on me with impressive ugliness. There was absolutely nothing too crude, disgusting or offensive to say about me or accuse me of.
The most depressing thing about that is that I've come to realize I shouldn't have been surprised.
Patrick at September 23, 2009 7:50 AM
Patrick, well said. I once had a black kid of about 10, who was just becoming aware of racial issues, ask me what white people think about being white. I told him: "They don't. White people don't go around thinking, 'Man, I'm white! I need to do something white today!'" That really took him aback, because he was already getting the message from the culture around him that people are defined by their ethnicity. I hope it steered his perception in a better direction.
Cousin Dave at September 23, 2009 8:10 AM
"Gay pride" is a useful phase for a person to pas through as he is coming out of the closet. As he matures past that, he drops it.
"Black Pride and Gay Pride are dangerous slogans, like White Pride or Straight Pride. Gay and Black are not achievements but accidents of birth."
Jim said:
Well I'm proud to be an American. That's not something I achieved; I didn't do that for myself, my various groups of ancestors did that for me, and I'm proud of them too. And in this world where plenty of people hate us, it's important to express that pride, at least until the French and British and German versions of the Boomers all die off.
______________________
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -George Bernard Shaw.
Again, being unashamed is very different from being proud. (See below.)
One can be proud of the good things achieved by one's country, but then, in the same vein, you can't ignore the perfectly good reasons *some* people have for their hate of us. Can't remember who said this (Bill Maher quoted it), but it goes: "They hate us because we don't even know why they hate us."
I.e., too many of us don't read more than one newspaper. If that.
Also, from Dr. John Rosemond (I'm not fond of his religious tendencies, but otherwise, he makes plenty of sense):
Some well-meaning folks suggest that there are two types of high self-esteem: a "false" self-esteem that is a function of people patting you on the back and telling you how wonderful you are, and a "genuine" self-esteem that is the result of significant accomplishment. In the words of a colleague and good friend, "Genuine self-esteem comes from achievement, such as studying hard and making good grades, or practicing hard and excelling in a sport."
So where, I ask, does that leave the child who studies hard and still makes no better than C's? Or the child who is a klutz? Or the disabled child who has neither the mental nor physical ability to succeed at doing much more than everyday self-help tasks? No, accomplishment-based self-esteem is no better than affirmation-based self-esteem. The former is highly prejudicial, the latter is sinful-a form of self-idolatry. And make no mistake about, if you have high regard for yourself because of your accomplishments, then you are likely to have less than high regard for those who's accomplishments are not as "worthy" as your own. In which case we are again talking about self-idolatry......
......"So, John," the impatient reader asks. "Answer the question: (If 'self esteem' is bad) What's good?"
What's good is self-respect. Because it is not a function of significant accomplishment, anyone can acquire self-respect, even the C-student, the klutz, and the disabled child. Self-respect, furthermore, is not idolatrous. It is acquired not because parents praise you (although they should-conservatively), but because they love you unconditionally (as does the Lord), hold you completely responsible for your behavior (but forgive you your sinfulness), and insist that you obey (respect their authority) and mind your manners at all times (show respect for others). It is, in fact, axiomatic that self-respect cannot exist without respect for others......
........Are self-confidence and self-respect interchangeable terms? Again, no. Self-confidence is specific to certain situations. For example, I feel very confident speaking to large groups of people, but I feel a distinct loss of confidence when I'm in deep water with sharks (I know, because I've been there, done that!). In fact, having confidence in a situation where you should not, where you should be on guard and charged with adrenaline, is foolhardy. But where self-confidence has, and should have, its ups and downs, self-respect is a constant.
The self-respecting person, rather than being "high" on him/herself, is modest, humble, even self-effacing at times-to again cite the apostle, a person of "sober judgment."
(end)
lenona at September 23, 2009 8:36 AM
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -George Bernard Shaw."
lenona, quoting George Bernard Shaw on patritism doesn't put you in a very flattering light.
"One can be proud of the good things achieved by one's country, but then, in the same vein, you can't ignore the perfectly good reasons *some* people have for their hate of us. "
What does the first part of the sentence have to do with the second part? What possible connection si ther between what strangers think of you and you your self-assessment? Life is more than a popularity contest.
And this goes to the question at hand. Being gay menas getting used to the unchangeable fact that for now at least for now there will eb people who hate you for no other reason, and therefore for now good reason. That is just thier opinion, and please, spare us the puerile twaddel about how they are entitled to their opinion - no one is traying take it from them.
The issue is what to do about it. The answer is to get your own head together, understand that rational discourse is not going to neutralize their hatred, try to live and let live with religious deviants and pathological haters, and remember that sometimes some people just need kiling when nothing else works.
Jim at September 23, 2009 1:34 PM
I believe the liberals sold out every principle they had to vote for this man. They were so enamored of the opportunity to vote for a black man, that they blinded themselves to the fact that he's a racist with close associations with domestic terrorists, an allowance they would never in a million years make for a white candidate.
--------------------------------
Um, Patrick, if you're going to accuse liberals of voting for Obama simply because he's black, then please don't complain when you are accused of disliking him simply because he's black.
Thanks!
cfreyja23 at September 23, 2009 4:58 PM
cfreyja23: "Um, Patrick, if you're going to accuse liberals of voting for Obama simply because he's black, then please don't complain when you are accused of disliking him simply because he's black."
Fallacy of composition. (A) Some liberals really did vote for Obama because he's black, and (B) there really do exist people who dislike Obama because he is black. The existence of a fallacy of composition on (B) *does not* invalidate any genuine claim on (A), or vice versa.
In other words, contrary to your argument, it *can* simultaneously be incorrect to accuse Patrick of disliking Obama because he's black *and* correct for Patrick to state that certain liberals voted for Obama because he's black. (Though further, this may or may not actually be the case --- its truthfulness is independent of the validity of your argument --- your actual argument remains incorrect either way.)
Lobster at September 24, 2009 3:43 PM
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