Clearly this woman is not the brightest crayon in the box. The sad part is that she has probably passed her low IQ on to her offspring. Let's hope the "whore" father had enough brains to rub two sticks together. Then again, he was dumb enough to get this woman pregnant. Great. What does that say about lifeguards at the gene pool?

You're just dealing with someone who has made their suffering into nobility - in their eyes. She's not going to learn. "I'm a single Mom, I work harder, therefore I'm better than you."

And there are enough like this with the vote to ruin governments all over America.

A lesbian is a funny thing to call a "woman hater." Oxymoron if i ever heard one.

Perhaps since I tend to be more right leaning, i just pick up on or recieve the insults from the other side more, but it has been my personal experience that those on the "kind and tolerant left" to be some of the most intolerant people I have the displeasure of encountering.

Also, for the record Amy, you're most assuredly not ugly (not that you need my reassurance). Not only is this women from the "Kind and tolerant' side of the political spectrum, I bet she thinks her gender is the "kinder and more compassionate" gender.

Wow, can we say "self loathing miserable bee-yotch" anyone? Bet she's a great mom...!
I'm surprised that you wasted as many keystrokes on her as you did Amy. She doesn't get it and sadly probably won't ever...

"You're just dealing with someone who has made their suffering into nobility - in their eyes."

On the other hand, a lot of us look at someone who has made her life needlessly difficult through poor decision-making, and call it what it is: stupidity. Her problems are entirely self-inflicted.

Amy - Great answers. I enjoy your columns more everyday. She sounds bitter and angry(what man wouldn't want to tie himself to her.)
You on the other hand are smart, rational, giving, appreciative and well-researched ( and from what I have seen in pictures, attractive.)

This woman has entitlement syndrome. She makes all her own mistakes and declares that she is a victim.

I will have to find who said the following as this applies to the creature sharon.short you are dealing with.

If you can't answer a man's(in this case woman's) arguement, at least you can call them names.

One of the biggest problems with single motherhood is that it is often the most dysfunctional women who are most likely to end up as single mothers. This pretty vividly illustrates the point.

This woman is a perfect example of why society is headed towards a jackboot tyranny. With so many people who refuse to grow up and accept responsibility for anything, the only option left is ultimately more state control over everyone's lives.

Amy - congratulations. You got punked by some 14 year old boy.

Who probably doesn't have a daddy.

Oh, and I think this woman is so outraged because women, through the courts and modern feminism, are suppossed to get their way without anyone daring to challenge them on anything. You challenged her and she doesn't like it. She can't answer your arguement so she is left with nothing but calling you names. I run into this all the time with libs.

I'm starting to like your style. :)

"You got punked by some 14 year old boy."

In any case, the response is reasoned and well-measured.

The best way to deal with inanity is to provide a contrast people can see.

There is no need to let the pig get you dirty when you wrestle on-line.

As a single mother I often look at the choices I made that led me to where I am. I wish I had chosen better and unfortunately I didn't have the emotional intelligence or self-esteem that would have guided better choices.I do accept responsibility because my marriage was a mistake I entered into. Getting pregnant three times was my mistake. I didn't cause his abuse, but if I were to look back I could see the signs now that I did not see then. That being said, my children would have been much better off if I had chosen differently. I do try to educate people regarding life choices and use my own as an example. My life has been hard. My children's lives have not always been as easy. I don't however believe that they will be any worse off than any other kid. I have done everything possible to educate them and show them things to make them good and productive people.

I am not making an argument for or against single mothers vs intact families. What I am saying is based on what I've seen which has been a lot. I don't have actual studies or numbers, but I do think that kids coming from broken homes aren't cursed for life. It depends on the parents and the parent's involvement. A parent can show a child that he/she is loved and valued and that he/she needs to be responsible in life whether that parent is married or divorced. I've seen many intact families that are making messes of their children, but they sure look pretty from the outside, just as I've seen single mothers and fathers making messes of their kids because they are using them as weapons in their divorce. I know some great kids that came from divorce who really turned out to be great people just as I know some really great kids that came from intact families. I think it really is about taking responsibility for your life and being open to admitting where your mistakes were. I can't change my past, but I can learn from it and make positive changes which I feel I've done. My children will benefit from that much more than had I tried to work out a marriage that was doomed from the start, and yes, I accept responsibility for making that choice. All I can hope is that others learn from me.

The woman writing that letter obviously has a lot of anger and bitterness. I don't see someone who can write those things being a very good mother and that is a shame, but she would be that way whether she was still with the father or not. She is someone who is stuck being a victim and obviously likes her place there. Her anger towards Amy really comes from jealousy and her own self-hatred. Amy represents all she would like to be but cannot be because with her attitude she'll never know how to get there.

LW: "How dare you compare a man at work with mom taking care of child and working."

This tells you right away what an unreasonable nut she is. She's not even on the same topic. That column was about the difference between working and being a stay-at-home parent, NOT between men and women at work. Small wonder that any other point you tried to make with her was competely ignored.

No one hates women...like other women.

Especially if one of them happens to be responsible and call another one on her own bad choices. Looks & feelings in the end, were all the writer had to go on. Rather pathetic, miss alkon handled the idiot quite deftly.

Wow, this woman is certifiable ... what a nut-job.

I was going to start refuting some of her points, but as I read on I realized this one is past hope, nothing can be done for her.

I can just imagine how horrible it would be to be married to such an angry shrieking loon; none would ever stick around. No wonder she has to resort to blaming men.

The woman writing to Amy knows that Amy has a point. *That* is what's making her so angry. If Amy were really so off-base, the LW either would have better things to do than writing in, or would be able to do so in a rational way. I've known a few people who ended up as single parents after their then-spouses appeared to have their brains reprogrammed by aliens (or whatever would account for a complete and utter personality transformation), and they're too busy to nitpick with an advice columnist about how she's Totally! Wrong!!!

We live in an age in which you're not supposed to talk about how people's own behavior might have gotten them -- and/or their offspring -- in a jam. It's "unsympathetic." People aren't used to hearing that anymore. It's a great opportunity for Amy to distinguish herself from the pack, but it shakes up some people's worlds.

I do wish, though, we could get to the point where the attractiveness -- or lack thereof -- of a woman weren't considered a relevant debating point. By anyone. I disagree with the single mom's assessment of Amy's looks, but even if that were true, what relevance would it have to whether Amy were right or not? Hearing that doesn't make me break out my feminist banner -- it *bores* me. No, I'm not suggesting that critiquing the looks of women constitutes hate speech, or that I'm in favor of censorship. I am saying, however, that whenever a debate over anything but personal appearance devolves into remarks about one party's looks, I consider the remarker to have nothing stronger to argue, and thus as the de facto loser of the argument. YMMV.

I can't let this one pass...

LW: "How dare you compare a man at work with mom taking care of child and working. I work where many men "work" and joke and go to topless bars at lunch, meander around the office with nothing to do but avoid home!!! Women, especially single moms bear the brunt of these buffoons then rush home to take care of all teens crisis' that we can handle."

Yes darlin, because there has never ever been a woman or gaggle of women in an office who did nothing much but gossip and chat on the telephone during working hours. They're all hard workers, all the time. I've never seen a woman kept on a job simply because she had senority and it was a foregone conclusion that if fired she'd probably sue for sex discrimination despite that she was chronically late and did a poor job.

My favorite story of workplace insanity from last year being a woman in her 20s complaining to HR about my mother's political views (how dare she and another woman talk about politics that made her feel unliked or something) or that my mother dared to "chastize" the poor girl who bragged about not needing car insurance since she was a "good driver".

I would jump at the chance to be a single parent to my daughter- instead of her borderline mother having custody of her. Oh yeah! and I get to pay The Borderline $500.00 a month to boot.
I would love the single dad role and no interference from my ex. Bring it on!

> not the brightest crayon in the box.

Gonna use that.

> "I'm a single Mom, I work harder,
> therefore I'm better than you."

Good point, Raddy. What's weird is that people think that would be cool: That society wants the mothers in our families to have to work harder. It's like when Brian promises to kill himself if he gets real sick because he can't be bothered to buy insurance. Who says that's a permissible outcome? Who says we want mothers to be harried, exhausted, resentful, heavily-burdened figures to their children?

> Her problems are entirely
> self-inflicted.

And if she were the only target, that would be cool. But her kids have no father, and are being raised to this they should be grateful to her for this. On how many thousands of occasions as they grow up will there be weird little moments —as they're sitting quietly in a class room or standing silently in line at a grocery store— where they experience the creeping, discomfiting feeling that that doesn't make a lick of sense?

> You got punked by some 14 year
> old boy.

Your obsession with declaiming cynical, private insight is not handsome. Sneering all the time doesn't make you Elvis Presley. The point of living is not to be sure everyone else is just a little foolish, OK?

> The woman writing to Amy knows
> that Amy has a point. *That*
> is what's making her so angry.

That's probably true, Marion. (I certainly think it is.) But mere explication, especially in this pop-psych sense, is not enough. We'd agree that this woman is a simple soul, right? (To Pirate Jo, a pastel maybe, or desert sand or burnt sienna.). She didn't dream up a stream of defensive chatter like that on her own.... All this stuff was just in the air around her. And those robotic incantations were all she had to offer as she discussed her behavior. In other words, the reason she feels it was OK to do this to her kids is that the surrounding culture told her so.

I think speaking out about this is not about 'distinguishing oneself from the pack', it's about acknowledging that people are unthinkingly doing something that's tremendously hurtful. This is like drunk driving... Except that single parenthood is more destructive to human lives. This woman, even if she's a spiritless automaton, needs to be rhetorically defeated... And perhaps shamed.

> never ever been a woman or
> gaggle of women in an office
> who did nothing much but
> gossip and chat

Your sarcasm's so thick I'm not certain where you're going, but a few years ago Cosh made interesting points about how workplace feminism is a twisting force.

Plus, I finally made some snotty comments in this one after everybody else had picked up their coats and gone home. If someone could take a minute to read them and get pissed off, I'd be grateful.

Also, I've been brutally pummeling -Julie way back here.

Bad edits in that first one. I'll make it up to you....

Judging from her tone and sharp rhetorical skills, i'd guess her to be about 17. Age or IQ, am not sure.
Not arguing with fools keeps the blood pressure down.

"In other words, the reason she feels it was OK to do this to her kids is that the surrounding culture told her so."

And here we have yet another example of American schizophrenia: The nation goes nuts because Janet Jackson's ornament pops out - in a game where the players' family lives are described, "...and there's Rock Linebacker, six years out of the University of Mars. He has two children with his girlfriend...".

This one is even better than the "Five Rounds With The Advice Goddess" or whatever it was called. Do you remember when I happened to find an entire column of yours in someone's blog archives? It was the letter about a woman who decided she didn't have to be a size five anymore because she had a child, and her husband kept buying her size five outfits, unable to accept that this is "the way it's going to be from now on."

(You told her basically that her husband likes what he likes, and that the only adjustable factor in this equation is her weight. In other words, ditch the surplus mass.)

You emailed her and told her that she can have a snippet from your column and a link to your column on your own site, but not reprint the entire column. She complained about your fans rooting around in her four year old archives. (I wasn't rooting around in her archives, I was looking for something and a link took me right to it.)

I wanted to say I think it's good that you're willing to address the gender-specific entitlement issues. I guess you break some sacred vow taken by women to uphold their martyrdom, which is probably the rationale behind the out of proportion outrageous response you got.

You addressed the "women-have-the-right-to-gain-200-pounds-and-keep-it-for-the-rest-of-their-lives-because-they-gave-birth-and-men-have-to-love-them-and-find-them-attractive-when-they-do" idea. That's in the column I referred to above.

I believe you also once addressed the "leaving-the-toilet-seat-up-should-be-a-capital-offense" idea.

Have you ever addressed the "I-have-P.M.S.-therefore-I-am-allowed-to-be-a-total-bitch-for-two-weeks-and-get-my-way-in-everything-no-matter-how-unreasonable-it-is" myth?

> i'd guess her to be about 17.

Do 17-year-old motherhood and typing skills correlate? Even in today's rockin' permissive society?

Doesn't matter. She's old enough to know better.

PS_ Speaking of typing skills: At 11:25, that should have read "being raised to THINK they..." etc.

Amy,

The hateful response you received from Sharon reminds of several of the comments I received after posting this video of Stephen A. Smith for "daring" to disagree with the default Leftist view of Barack Obama. The responses, most of which boringly used the term "Uncle Tom", essentially stated that a Black man cannot possibly have such views without being a sellout.

Undoubtedly Sharon, official spokeswoman of all women, considers you to be a sellout too.

Robert

This sharon person most assuredly does not speak for me. Having been a single mom for longer than I was married, I still don't seem to carry the bitterness she does. Perhaps I had a better job and support system than she has, but still. It ain't no bed o' roses, but it's not nearly as bad as she's trying to make it sound. Unless, of course, she's doing it wrong. But as in all things, people do things differently. You have to make an effort to make things work for you. Sometimes you have to make an effort to work on yourself, too. Her emails make her sound like an idiot. Talk about a sellout.

Once again, we see what happens when someone does not want to take responsibility for their own actions. "Personal Responsibilitarian" is brilliant! Can I join the group Amy?

Really, who cares what someone like that thinks. The best way to fight them is to make them look like blathering idiots, which you did quite well.

Also, I have seen several pictures of you posted on your site in various places...and I think you are HOT!

DH was out of town for 4 days last week. First time I'd been left alone with 4 kids. And darned if it wasn't ......easier! Of course, I wasn't working. And the man does a LOT to make up for the messes he causes. And the kids are happier with him here by far. But still, for one little minute, I did envision a world without man-pee on the toilet or socks on the floor. It was a fun little daydream, and then back to reality. The problem being, many women don't ever come back to reality about single parenting. I give major props to the ones who do it and admit how hard and non-ideal it is.

I struggle continually with finding myself making things harder on me than they have to be and then wanting props for it. Might be something they give you during delivery?

I'm not a husband-hating wench, either, for those who will I'm sure jump on me for the no-husband-mess daydream. I bought some stilettos and a corset today. And it ain't cause I like wearing them, if you get my drift :)

Wow. Tough words from her, but you seem unaffected. How are you able to maintain such a strong sense of worth with someone talking to you like that?

Amy,

First. You're hot -- with the lovely hair, eyes, complexion and smokin' bod, and all! ;P

Second, kudos for the linquistic and logical skills that allow you to dispatch specimens like this with such elegance and grace.

Which makes you all the hotter, of course!

Keep it up, kiddo, and welcome to new, improved She-Woman / He-Man Woman Haters Club!

Resorting to arguing based upon how an argument makes her feel. Some people cannot be argued with, because anything that doesn't make them feel good about themselves, must be a vicious lie.

And frankly, I doubt she's more attractive than our lady of advice. Miss Alkon is a very lovely wench. Which only highlights further the ill behavior of the complaining LW.

All is not lost.

This woman is a sad example of someone who has OD'd on the victimhood cool-aid. The culture has told people like this that they are victims and are never responsible for their own problems, so how dare anyone else suggest otherwise.

As for Amy's looks, Amy is anything but ugly. But I'll bet my last dollar that the woman who penned these letters is an ugly dog who only the most desperate man would shag, which no doubt explains her predicament. As the old saying goes 'feminism was invented so that ugly women could have the same benefits that beautiful women do'.

I just had a brilliant Idea.

What if we dosed all of the alcohol in the world with birth control?

Amy writes.....

It's hard sometimes -- no girl likes getting nasty e-mail about her looks -- but I know she's resorting to that because she doesn't have the intellect or rationality to actually debate me on the points.

Amy, you could be called a lot of things. Ugly is not one of them. Having seen you on video along with these pictures on your blog I can say with certainty that you're
a very pretty woman.
And I do consider myself an expert on this subject.

While I happen to think Amy is very attractive, does it really matter? Would it mean she is any less right or wrong if she were ugly or if she were pretty? Whether you agree or disagree with what she has to say, the LW was not making any rational point that could be considered a legitimate argument. She basically vented and not very well and made herself look bitter and ridiculous and extremely defensive. Amy's blog invites discussion and yes, she blogs about some issues that are bound to push buttons, but she has also always invited reasonable discussion to anyone who has an opposing point of view. I don't always agree with everything Amy says, but I respect the fact that she researches most of the things she writes about, and that she doesn't resort to personal attacks when she doesn't agree with someone. Obviously it is easier for this LW to call someone ugly than it is to lay out a fair and balanced argument based on the issue being discussed.

>>>Obviously it is easier for this LW to call someone ugly than it is to lay out a fair and balanced argument based on the issue being discussed.

I agree with what you say, however, what fair and balanced argument is there for the LW to make? "Dads aren't needed and I had no responsibility for the man who impregnated me"? The LW vented because she had no valid argument and appears to be unable to face up to reality.

Also, I totally agree, and well said on your part, that the veracity of Amy's (or anyone) argument is unrelated to their attractiveness.

It's hard sometimes -- no girl likes getting nasty e-mail about her looks -- but I know she's resorting to that because she doesn't have the intellect or rationality to actually debate me on the points.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at September 27, 2009 2:42 PM

Another point that I didn't see mentioned is that it's quite likely she's jealous of you "because" of your looks.

A hot red (fire in the hole!) can cause many an insecure woman to berate a beautiful woman.

Add intelligent and successful to beautiful and red, and the unstable psychotic piece of wacko is sure to explode as she did. This, after your words cause what's left of her conscious to convict her of the tragic mess that she surely is.

I agree with the other LW that looks needn't be an issue, but the pressure Hollywood wrongfully places on women and girls causes much of that to be as it is.

I always stress to my daughter that her intelligence is, and always will be, far more valuable than her looks.

As the adage goes, and has Sharon herself proves: Beauty is only skin deep, while ugliness is to the bone.

Doesn't matter how she may "appear" to look; as soon as she opens that mouth, her newly discovered to-the-bone ugliness would surely make even Medusa look like the latest hottest runway model.

I bet that nut couldn't even get Shrek to bed her...

Well, Amy...looks like the gang has covered most of it. "When angry women attack..." (they always bust out the "ugly" reference, it's their only ammo and funny, it's never accurate). Real women don't do it!

I think you are striking dahhhling, just be-e-a-utiful!!!!

:)

Of course, Amy's beautiful. The LW was obviously offended by Amy's assertion that a stay-at-home mom isn't the most horrifying drudgery since Stalin's work camps, and resorts to tasteless low blows as a way to express her outrage. A mature adult would either rethink her position or argue to make her case, but this person is obviously willing to do neither.

Her response suggests that she realizes that Amy is correct, but not willing to compromise her myth of martyrdom and is threatened by anyone unwilling to support the legend.

I think you are lovely.

Hey, my lovely wife of 16 years is a woman who very much resembles Amy. So you know where I stand on that. ;)

Flynne writes: "This sharon person most assuredly does not speak for me. Having been a single mom for longer than I was married, I still don't seem to carry the bitterness she does. "

The difference, Flynne, is that you know where babies come from. I say that sarcastically, but... One of the aspects of poverty-victimhood culture is that it teaches girls (boys too) that pregnancy is a natural disaster: you can't predict when it's going to happen, and you can't do anything to prevent it. Anyone who works in a free clinic will tell you that virgin births are, according to their patients, a daily occurrence.

For the record I think Amy is uber-hot and that woman needs the immediate help of a mental professional!

This is the infamous "You're a poopy head!" attack. You know she told her friends about this exchange and was all, "I gave that ugly dyke what for!"

She doesn't want to debate you. She wants to spew verbal diarrhea because you dared attack her sacred cow. I'm impressed/surprised you respond to letters like that.

Sacred Cow makes the best hamburger.

"You're just dealing with someone who has made their suffering into nobility - in their eyes."

The real truth is that suffering is NEVER noble. The unwillingness to suffer is.

"I know the unimportance of suffering. I know that pain is to be fought and thrown aside, not to be accepted as part of your soul nor a permanent mar against one's view of existence" Any Rand Atlas Shrugged

(I think I got the quote right, I'm reciting it from memory, so please accept any slight modifications.)

-Julie

Thanks - I particularly needed this today.

Your welcome. I'm glad that I can reduce your burden. Lord knows that you've reduced all of ours at one time or another.

-Julie

She doesn't want to debate you. She wants to spew verbal diarrhea because you dared attack her sacred cow... Posted by: MonicaP at September 28, 2009 9:28 AM

I confess that maybe I'm just simple-minded, but that was funny.

"Your welcome. I'm glad that I can reduce your burden. Lord knows that you've reduced all of ours at one time or another." -Julie Posted by: Julie at September 28, 2009 11:39 AM

"The real truth is that suffering is NEVER noble. The unwillingness to suffer is"

Eh, don't know about that. Some suffering is noble. Marrow donation hurts. It also saves lives. Staying up all night rocking a little baby sick and miserable and feverish kinda sucks-Sleep deprivation is suffering in my book. But it's worth it. I doubt sleeping on a hard floor at Cedar-Sinai is pleasurable, but there are circumstances that would make one do it.

Of course, if we could buy narcotics OTC, then we wouldn't have to suffer :)

I think you're beautiful, Amy, with gorgeous hair and a figure to die for. This lady's attacks are obviously way off base, and you handled them gracefully, as usual.

I do, however, feel that your comments regarding single mothers and their choices are often a bit too harsh. They presume that for a woman to end up a single parent, in each and every case (other than widowhood), she must've been a very poor judge of character. Whereas that is true for many of us (myself included), it's not always true.

I've seen men who would've been almost ANY woman's pick for a mate - and who were, for many years, seemingly very good husbands to level-headed, loving women - suddenly up and leave, chasing after some hot young thing, or just something new and different.

As your research suggests, men are biologically programmed for this, but these days, it also happens to many men, through no fault of their own, so I just don't think it's fair to always assume that the single parent didn't put their future children's needs first at the time of conception. I feel this is one of those feel-good, "it-can't-possibly-happen-to-me" philosophies that people embrace because it gives them a sense of security and power over a situation where we are, in fact, sometimes pretty powerless. Choosing a mate, and trying to judge how that person may change and grow over decades is a lot trickier than you make it sound.

LS, there are certainly people of both sexes that are such expert manipulators (think "sociopath") that you can't always expect their victims to spot them in advance. At least not the first time. With regard to my own first marriage, though, I can look back and see all of the things that I should have seen ahead of time, but I willfully blinded myself at that moment because I was fearful, insecure, and a bit impatient. I suspect this is the case more often than not. Fortunately for me, no kids resulted from that, and so I was able to walk away having learned a lesson.

momof4 writes: "Eh, don't know about that. Some suffering is noble. Marrow donation hurts. It also saves lives. "

Excellent point. I think the distinction is: the willingness to bear suffering, when it's necessary, is noble. The suffering itself, however, just sucks.

"The real truth is that suffering is NEVER noble. The unwillingness to suffer is"

Eh, don't know about that. Some suffering is noble. Marrow donation hurts...

I know that this is semantics, and I'm not going to get into a huge debate about it, but some activities that cause suffering are noble (you gave some great examples) such as organ donation, caring for infants, childbirth, defending a loved one in a fist fight, etc. However, the suffering itself is not noble. No one should ever be able to say, "I hurt, so my life is noble."

You are willing to endure sleep deprivation in order to care for your children properly. Your willingness to sacrifice to care for your children is noble. However, if I have sleep deprivation simply because my body is screwed up and I can't patch 3 or 4 hours of sleep together each night, that isn't noble. It sucks, but it isn't noble.

-Julie

Julie, looks like we were thinking along the same lines. ;)

Julie, looks like we were thinking along the same lines. ;)

Yup, I saw that after I posted. It's good to have support!

-Julie

I think the distinction is: the willingness to bear suffering, when it's necessary, is noble. The suffering itself, however, just sucks.

What's with the war on Catholicism, Cousin Dave? :)

You have to wonder if this is dumb women's sole method of arguing. This woman's arguments (You're lesbian! You're ugly!) are just like what so many women throw at men on the internet, 'You're gay! You're a loser!'. Great way to make a point and win people over to your argument (rolls eyes).

You ought to repost the picture of you in the evening dress with the train, that was a lovely shot, and would certainly show you're not ugly, nor '190 pounds'. I admire your restraint, Amy :-)

"What's with the war on Catholicism, Cousin Dave? :)"

I know! Darn those Lutherans and their potato salads!

I know! Darn those Lutherans and their potato salads!

Lutherans have potato salad? I knew I should have quit being a Catholic sooner!

-Julie