This situation is so ridiculous. I will pray for the tutor.

First off, its sick that this teacher was fired! There are a lot of idiots in this world. Second, and I have to laugh, I was going to wish everyone a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever it is they celebrate if they do when I saw this blog piece. Without trying to convert, preach, or offend, I hope I can just spread a little goodwill around!

A reprimand would be more appropriate.

Here in Idaho, my little boy is exposed to some of the crazy fundamentalist Christian crap in kindergarten. He even came home one day with a candy necklace with a cross, given to him from his teacher. I let it go, and we actually talk about religion now.

One suspects there's a little more to this story than we're reading in the papers. The story doesn't really say whether "[Mrs. Jones's] testimony about miracles and her offer of saying a prayer" was something she brought up one time or many times. If the latter, I could see where her pupil and her mother could get tired of it pretty quickly, but we don't know if they tried to get Mrs. Jones to tone it down prior to asking for her removal. The article makes them seem pretty thin-skinned, but we don't really know.

Further, I'm getting a little tired of hearing the word "persecution" tossed around so carelessly. When people are being thrown into prison or driven from their homes for their religion, that's persecution. When people are being barred from working because of their religion, I'll call that persecution, too. But I'd like to know a little more about Mrs. Jones's case before jumping on the persecution bandwagon.

Actually, "I'll pray for you" is often the Christian method of saying "Fuck you, loser."

I used to frequent a chatroom for Gay Christians, where "I'll pray for you" was the typical response after we indicated we weren't impressed with the umpteen-billionth time of hearing, "Faggots can't be Christians! It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."

"You're all abominations to God...I'll pray for you."

You think that's sweet? We didn't. It was an expression of contempt, as if they're so much better than us.

Actually, "I'll pray for you" is often the Christian method of saying "Fuck you, loser."

So Mrs. Jones was telling the sick pupil to fuck off, then?

I'm of two minds on this.

One se s beig persecuted for her faith, and that is a good thing - if her god turns out to be real she'll get into heaven, god promised

On the other hand god aslo promised to protect those who believe in him and it looks like he failed to do so.

So I fail to understand why this woman is mad at anyone other than her god who promised her persecution and then failed to protect her.

Patrick, it depends on context. What you related, yeah, that sounds like a fuck you. Someone's sick, lost their job, insert bad situation here, "I'll pray for you" translates into "I'll send good thoughts your way" or "I'll keep my fingers crossed for you."

Lujlp, I'm pretty sure that nowhere does it say that God will interfere with free will, or that he'll keep bad things from happening to you just because you're a Christian. Granted, I'm not a Christian, but I remember that bit from Sunday School pretty clearly.

This is just absurd. I consider myself agnostic, but if someone offers to pray for me or a sick family member, I simply say "thank you". It's nice to know people are pulling for you, even if you don't agree with how their doing it. I can see someone taking offense to this, but so much offense that you need to get someone fired?! A simple: "Our family doesn't believe that and I would appreciate you not talking about it in front of my children." should have been the first step.

Yeah, I've had people say: "I'll pray for you" and known they meant it to be a big F-you, but I think more often than not it is said to comfort someone. It's the same with "God Bless you" and "may the lord be with you". Most of the time it's a kindly old woman like the one that works at my pharmacy (though, funy enough, she stopped saying anything to me the day I bought a pregnancy test). What's the point of lashing out at people like that? I don't want their faith shoved down my throat anymore than they want mine doen theirs. The F-you types clearly need to re-read their bible.

What I am NOT okay with is strangers prying about my faith. While I was waitressing, many customers seemed to think that just because I brought them their food we were good enough buddies to discuss religion. I was asked more than once if I had "found Jesus". I started getting so annoyed that I started responding with one of the following: "Why? Did you guys lose him?!", "Of course! He was in here a half hour ago eating the enchiladas. He left a great tip and told me alll of his children should leave at least 30%." or "No. I put up flyers and checked with the local pound, but no luck yet!" Needless to say, I didn't get many tips from those people...OR my tip would be a prayer card. Uhhh...thanks lady, but I've already tried praying for my rent to pay itself and it hasn't exactly worked out for me. But I digress...

On an off-topic note:
Hi Amy! Maybe I'm just tech stupid, but I couldn't find an email address for you on here. Is the book available anywhere but Amazon? I had a pretty bad experience with them a while ago and I'd rather not give them my CC info again....but I want that book!! :)

I'm too stressed to spell check today. Sorry people.

One complaint and she's fired? I think there's more to the story.

“Obviously if I had known she was upset when I had first mentioned my testimony I would never have brought it up again."

That indicates that she had mentioned it at least once before. I'd like to hear the mother and daughter's side.

Her photo looks downright saintly. Nice cross, too.

The teacher's quote: "It is as if my freedom of speech is being restricted. I feel I am being persecuted for speaking about my faith in a country that is supposed to be Christian."

My sympathy (which wasn't flowing too freely in the first place) rather dried up when I read those words.

Agree with old rpm daddy about the increasingly careless use of "persecution".

Generally, the UK is far LESS "supposedly" Christian than the USA and it was daft for the teacher to act on her self-serving suppositions in this case anyway.

@Jody T: "...it was daft for the teacher to act on her self-serving suppositions in this case anyway."

She was right naff, too, she was! ;-)

>>She was right naff, too, she was! ;-)

yeah, the silly bint shoulda put a sock in it too:)

There was more info on other sites:

The parent of the girl made the following statements:

"Mrs Lynch said they had repeatedly asked Mrs Jones to stop discussing Christianity with their daughter - and were left with no option but to report her to the council."

'Mrs Jones was employed to teach maths but used every opportunity to discuss religion, despite the fact I made it clear we were a non-religious family and didn't want to talk about these issues in this way."

"On one occasion she asked my daughter to pray with her, my daughter was distressed by this behaviour."

"On another, after the death of my daughter's close friend, Miss Jones told my 14-year-old daughter that when young people die they go to heaven. These conversations upset my daughter deeply."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237601/Cancer-patient-left-traumatised-Christian-teacher-Olive-Joness-offer-pray-her.html

The mother's request should have been respected the first time the issue came up. If it wasn't and the statements by the mother are accurate, the teacher was wrong. She was there to teach math, not her religous views.

As for persecution, even if she was only told once, it's not even close. With that statement alone, I tend to believe the mother of the child. That family has enough to deal with without having someone making them uncomfortable in thier own home.

I am not an atheist, but I think the tutor stepped over the line with a family that clearly did not share her devout beliefs. Whether termination was appropriate is one thing, but the family had the right to ask for someone else.

Merry Christmas, Amy! (and all the rest of you Godless heathens!)

Sounds like the tutor went there to cram her religion down their throats, then played the persecuted martyr card when they got sick of dealing with her bullshit. Having grown up around Jehovah's Witness beliefs, I am here to tell you that there are people out there trying to collect convert scalps. Here's an idea, she can tutor math to religious families. Problem solved.

Another thing that bothers me a little bit is that it must be possible to to share the love of Christ without bringing religion up at all. Being a caring, devoted teacher is plenty by itself, no preaching necessary. Now Mrs. Jones doesn't have the chance to do even that.

"Is the book available anywhere but Amazon?" (Kim @10:36)

It's also for sale at Barnes & Noble (bn.com), borders.com, & powells.com, though the prices are higher. Amy gets a small kickback from Amazon if you order through "Amy's Mall" (click on the book cover).

The parents have the right to hire and fire anybody they want within terms of the contract. Since there was no contract, this was work for hire and the tutor could be fired at will for no reason.

Hopefully the tutor moves on with her life and does not keep dwelling on the "injustice" of what happened. There was no injustice and she is not a victim.

I don't get too upset if people offer to pray for me. I don't believe in the fairies at the bottom of garden so cannot get too upset about someone praying to them. OTOH, I know many Xians just won't leave well enough alone and that prompts me to suspect there is more to this story.

BTW, for those believers who make the offer to pray as a proxy for a big FU! I say, "sticks and stones, retardo" If they do try to throw stones, I'll throw back bullets.

Say - if you want an example of a rational Christian, check this out: Radiometric Dating - a Christian Perspective.

Just as some people are obsessed with the idea of a personal "saviour", others are fascinated with the real world, and they make allowances that sweaty Middle Eastern tribesmen couldn't get everything right - and that the real world trumps whatever anyone writes in a book.

Every few months there's a story in the news about someone who's been fired for a seemingly petty reason. And while in today's "no tolerance" society, I'm sure that these stories are not impossible, usually the only side quoted is the person who was fired, and it usually seems that there might be a little bit more to the story. I think there are probably a lot of instances of straws breaking the camel's back, and employers who, because of unions or whatever, can't fire someone for real, valid reasons, and are forced to wait for a minor but technically allowable reasons to fire someone.

The teacher's quote: "It is as if my freedom of speech is being restricted. I feel I am being persecuted for speaking about my faith in a country that is supposed to be Christian."

The problem in the Western world, IMO, is not so much that some people are being persecuted for their faith, but that some people whine too much.

The teacher's "woe is me; I'm so persecuted" quote reminds me of my favorite religious persecution quote of all time, from none other than Pat Robertson.

"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." -- Pat Robertson, 1993.

@Patrick: Pat Robertson seems to be a little nutty. If you have seen him on CBN news, with that giggly, grinning mannerism of his, he is either filled to overflowing with the spirit of the Lord, or, more likely, his choo-choo isn't chugging down the right track.

And the war against reading comprehension continues...

Please note, those who are so determined to point out to me that the tutor meant no harm, I never said she did.

Please note the sentence I used, and the emphasized word. Actually, "I'll pray for you" is often the Christian method of saying "Fuck you, loser."

See the word "often"? My, that's a big word, isn't it? Say it with me: AWWWWWW-FENNNNN. It doesn't mean "always." It doesn't even mean "mostly" or "half the time." It means frequent enough to be noted.

I was simply pointing out that Amy regards "I'll pray for you" as good wishes. I have often experienced that the phrase is used as an expression of withering contempt.

Didn't accuse the tutor of using it that way. Didn't say that it was always used that way. Was pointing out that "I'll pray for you" isn't always an expression of goodwill.

I am fed up with having to defend myself against accusations of saying things that I didn't say. If you're going to read words that I didn't say, I am going to go out of my way to make you feel stupid for it. Because you should feel stupid for it.

Mpetrie, I agree that it's more likely the latter in Robertson's case. He's a lunatic.

Point taken, Patrick.

Taken in the broader context of the topic at hand, it was a little hard for me to understand why you brought your point up. No, I don't really think you were saying Mrs. Jones was telling the little girl to fuck off, and I do understand how people might use a virtuous "I'll pray for you" as a thin veil for contempt. Since this didn't seem to be the case with Mrs. Jones and the little girl, I wasn't sure where your comment was pointed.

Now, as far as the point of your original post, I don't disagree. I suspect lots of people have endured condescension disguised as religion. I know I have, and I can usually tell smugness from genuine concern. I reckon most people can as well.

Merry Christmas, Patrick, and a Happy, Blessed New Year!

old rpm daddy, how can I be mean and vicious if you're going to be nice in return? Now you make me feel bad.

I used to live in North Carolina, in an area that I like to think of as the hypocrisy belt. Never met so many people so determined to tell me my religion was wrong, and so Bible-thumping. But at the same time, there were whole streets that seemed to be nothing but porn shops. Prostitution was a huge problem and most of them were drag queens.

The fundies often dismissed my lack of interest in their beliefs with a sneering, "I'll pray for you."

The thing about it is, I really am happy with my beliefs, and I love to hear what others believe, but I find it's nearly impossible to have an honest exchange of ideas without turning into an effort to proselytize. And I really hate that.

Merry Christmas to you, too, and a blessed New Year. And I'll pray for you! (Not meant in a contemptuous way.)

@Patrick: "old rpm daddy, how can I be mean and vicious..."

Oh, please don't think anything of it. I've had my moments, too, and anyway, the variety of personalities who visit here is one of big reasons I make this site part of my regular routine.

Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history

Did Pat Robertson really say that? (Rhetorical question everyone, don't bother to answer). Not only going over the top with regard to the treatment of minorities in his own country compared to others, but he hasn't even read his own Bible. More terrible than anything in history! I don't think so. I'm the first to defend Christians vs a lot of the rest of the world - atheist that I am, they're not causing me any more trouble than waking me up too early on Sunday when I have a hangover, unlike a lot of other groups - but does he really believe that this is as bad as it gets?

If the teacher immediately stopped yacking about having the god-flu as soon as they told her they weren't interested I doubt there would have been any problem. Sounds like she kept thumping that book - and IF this is the case the parents should have sacked her themselves on the spot, made her leave, then sent a detailed letter to anyone who needed to know outlining why they did it.

Xians often claim they are being persecuted because they are not always allowed to cram their delusions down other peoples throats. I have plenty of xian friends, all of whom have the good manners and good sense to keep their beliefs to themselves unless the subject is raised in polite debate. Once someone has made it clear they are not interested, that's it, time to shut up about your lifestyle choice now - and that goes for any other religion too of course, as well as rational thinkers.

If someone tries the "I'll pray for you" line which is, as stated, often used a substitute for "fuck you" or "I've lost the argument and I can't think of any other way to needle you, so I'll try this" I usually respond with a big cheery "Thanks! I'll think for you!" You can also try "wish you'd pray harder, it's not fucking working!" for a slightly less antagonistic approach - got those both, years ago, from Thewaronfaith.com - which site is no longer up, sadly.

When my son was extemely ill at birth my mother and fil both went to their respective shaman and asked him to practise some white magic for him. I had no problem with that, it comforted them, was harmless and couldn't hurt us - they weren't even in the same country so I didn't have to hear much about it. That's the kind of delusional thinking it is best to overlook and humour.

But sometimes you have to stand up and do the right thing. If the silly bitch was proselytising then good for them for protecting their child from her.