This idiot will get no birthday cake. Check the ingredients.

More than one sci-fi author has postulated that there is a fixed amount of intelligence in the world, and that it is diluted by numbers. I submit that it is further concealed by the squealing noises of the truly stupid.

Local news is reporting that the state of Georgia is "considering increasing fees, such as those for business and hunting licenses... however, there is concern that these costs could trickle down to consumers."

I want to go down to the radio station and slap everybody. Fees are paid directly by consumers. Of course they will bear the cost.

If people are eating a low-sodium diet, the onus is on them to let the restaurant know they're on low-sodium, so the restaurant can act accordingly. Then if they salt your food anyway, by all means, raise the roof.

Next we'll be telling restaurants to avoid sugar, out of consideration for those smart enough to know they have diabetes, but too stupid to let the restaurant know they can't have sugar.

Maybe the Jews will defeat it - kosher meat is heavily salted during processing.

...And so the statists continue their assault on every sector of American economy and society. Their intention is apparently to turn us into an economic basket case and turn each of us into sniveling four-year-olds who have to ask mommy (them) before we do anything.

I keep wondering how far they have to go to provoke some real, genuine outrage out there, or if the sheep have been numbed into accepting all of it already.

You've got to try it on ice cream, Amy. It's delicious!

fyi, useless fact for the day, 85% of people with high blood pressure have absolutely no response to salt whatsoever. we just focus on it because it's something we can control.

BF doesn't use salt; he was told by his dr that it's not good for him. Me, I used to put salt on everything, even pizza! My BP is 110/70, always has been. I don't use a LOT of salt when I cook, but I do use some. I just don't tell the BF. He gives me the hairy eyeball when I salt some stuff, but I tell him if he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to eat it. Problem solved. Salt, just like everything else, won't kill you if used in moderation. Why aren't people getting this?

1984 people.

(Pssssst! Hey Ann, are you out there? Did you get that cough syrup recipe yet? I found a couple on the web, one of 'em goes like this:
1/4 c. honey
1/4 c. lemon juice
1/8 c. bourbon or brandy
Mix well honey and lemon juice. Add bourbon or brandy.
Is this the one your mom uses?
Sorry for the hijack, Amy!)

Ooh Flynne, IIRC that's DARN close to the one my mom uses. I won't talk to her until tomorrow (and WTF did I do with all the recipes on my hard drive? I think when I visit in May I'm going to have to rifle through her recipe box again, darnit).

And salt - seriously, people? Does that moron realize there's salt in damn near everything? What are they going to serve, a head of lettuce?

I'm soooo tired of the nanny state. Really.

That chick is a moron.

The problem is like with global warming or climate change, or whatever, the science is simply not settled.

Hypertension and other symptoms of metabolic syndrome are all symptoms, not diseases by themselves.

Salt does not cause high blood pressure in most people (or perhaps a few points).

Even if it did, there is little evidence that hbp by itself causes anything. Rather, it is the oxidation and hardening of the arteries...

Idiot. I'm looking forward to the end of her 15 minutes of fame.

Cooking without salt? That's disgusting on many levels (including taste). Salt activate the taste buds to make everything taste more like itself. Beef tastes beefier, sauces taste saucier, tomatoes taster tomato-ier, etc. And you can't even make bread without salt to kill of the yeast before it overpopulates and produces too much gas, killing to texture of the bread. Not to mention all of those lovely salty-sweet creations like caramel with sea salt.

This will kill the restaurant business.

This important new legislation will help speed New York to finally renovating the 9/11 site. I say good on you, New York, for keeping the most pressing issues at the forefront of public and legislative attention!

I stopped watching as soon as I saw that ignorant cunt Meme Roth. That woman needs to DIAF.

DIAF? Die something something something?

Reminds me of a post that was still a parody when I wrote it, only 7 years ago:

No Steak for You!

...but sounds like it's about to turn into reality.

OFFTOPIC
________

Powerful new insult: "two neurons connected by a spirochete."

off topic~

Amy, thank you for recommending "Elmore Leonard's 10 Rules of Writing." Rule 10 I will tape to my keyboard.

I look forward to reading "Plot & Structure."

I don't think any of you have ever worked in food service. Most places don't cook fresh from scratch; they get a lot of their base ingredients pre-processed in big tubs. And of course foods like cheese, a staple in many cuisines, can also be quite salty to begin with.

But salt is probably the least of our worries when it comes to what's in those tubs. Next time you go out to eat, walk through the kitchen and see what they're really using in your "fresh cooked to order" meal.

A lot of mediocre restaurants and food-service establishments routinely use salt as a substitute for skillful cooking. Salt is also a preservative so it allows the restaurant to keep food around longer - it won't spoil, but it doesn't taste fresh, either.

I don't like over-salted food because it induces terrible thirst. I can't eat those Indian meals in a bag from Trader Joe's because of this. You can get the same amount of flavor excitement by having less salt in the food but a very spicy, salty condiment in small amounts - ON THE SIDE. Not mixed in to the food.

The salt doesn't have to be in every bite to be a great contrast. Some cuisines really play off of this, and rather than blend everything together, they leave the spice pods whole and every now and then you bite into a scrap of lemon peel, a kaffir lime leaf, or a cardamom pod and POW! Taste experience. Then, you take another few bites of the bland bulk, before another cardamom pod sneaks up on you. This strategy doesn't work well in places where the food is kept hot for hours, though.

Also, there are different types of salt. Table salt is different from sea salt, and that's different from the Himalayan rock salt that tastes like rotten eggs. Sea salt and earth salt have minerals that table salt doesn't have, and I find I need a lot less of the rock salt for a satisfying taste experience.

Telling people who require a low-sodium diet to avoid restaurants altogether isn't always practical, and if the restaurant's base ingredients already contain a lot of salt, it will be impossible for them to prepare a "low sodium" meal.

"Telling people who require a low-sodium diet to avoid restaurants altogether isn't always practical."

Um...that sounds ABSOLUTELY practical.

Hey alcoholic...don't go into a bar.

Impractical? No.

Hey diabetic...don't order donuts from crispy cream.

Impractical? NO.

Hey low salt diet person...eat at home.

Impractical? NO NO NO NO NO.

Restaurants are a luxery, not a necessity, and certainly not a right. If a person on a low sodium diet chooses to visit one, then they accept the risks involved, and can either order something that will have little to no salt...or prepare their own food at home. If it is part of an outing with friends, order wine and enjoy their company.

Don't deny everybody good restaurant food because it is beyond the pale for the low salt diet people.

DIAF = Die In A Fire.

And it's what all statists and wannabe fascists should do.

I have blood pressure issues. It's in my genes. I do all the right stuff and still it's high. My doc told me that a moderate amount of salt is not an issue for me. People with a genetic predisposition to hypertenstion process sodium differently than those who aren't predisposed, so no amount of monitoring sodium will stop the problem. We react to the sodium in water for pete's sake. So we take pills to do the job for us. I know that prepared food has salt. I don't need big brother monitoring my salt intake, thank you very much.

This country is determined to fall from heavy weight of government intervention the likes of this ridiculous interference. This is more ultra-liberal bullshit designed to assist the poor, stupid, helpless sheeple who don't know how to run their own lives. How about leaving us alone and letting us prove that we do know a thing or two?

""Telling people who require a low-sodium diet to avoid restaurants altogether isn't always practical."

Um...that sounds ABSOLUTELY practical.

Hey alcoholic...don't go into a bar."

Not the same as alcohol, which is optional. Most people can go without a martini for up to a week, but it's very hard to live on Ry Krisp for that long while working a full schedule.

This is fine except when you're on travel and have no choice but to eat out locally. Business travelers are sometimes stuck way far out of town, too, or they're working all day when grocery stores are open. Not every hotel or hostel has cooking facilities; you're lucky to get a mini-fridge.

But I guess this thread is about New York City, not nationwide. Even in NYC the grocery stores are not always 24-7 at least not in midtown. However, you can get great sesame noodles in Chinatown even at 2am. (As I remember they weren't oversalted, either - they tasted delicious)

"I have blood pressure issues. It's in my genes."

My dad has high BP as do all the males in my immediate family. He limits his sodium, says it helps. He's 79, and has had this condition for 35 years, otherwise fit, slim, active, and alert.

And before you question his abilities, he's a pharma researcher who's used to making his own observations. If he tries a dietary thing and it doesn't work, he tells his doc, and they try something else, till the condition improves.

It's up to people with special dietary needs to see that those needs are met, not force everyone in an entire city to see that those needs are met. When I experimented with veganism, I packed acceptable food everywhere I went. It wasn't always good eats, but it was my issue, and I took care of it. When I was dirt broke, I didn't visit restaurants at all. I planned ahead and packed all of my out-of-home meals.

If I were hungry at 2 am and couldn't find an all-night grocery, I'd just wait until 8 am when they reopened, then make sure I had enough to get me through.

Jesus Christ. This liberal nanny gov't "the people are too dumb to take care of themselves so we have to do it for them" shit is annoying as hell. What's next? Forbidding bodegas to sell potato chips and pretzels because they have *GASP* salt in them!? Are stores gonna be required to pull them off thier shelves or risk a fine? Are they gonna start picking on Twinkies and Ring Dings next? They contain sugar and sugar can cause diabetes you know...
This is fucking stupid.
Is this the only thing that Ortiz can think to create legislation for? Seriously? The salt intake of it's citizens is THE most important issue in his district huh? Nevermind the prostitution in Red Hook...
Ortiz is a fucking fucktard. Who gave this guy the power to decide what people are allowed to eat anyway? Oh yeah... the people that elected him. You know what is scary? The in your face I'm better than you because I eat only organic and tofu mother fuckers that are all over New York (especially Park Slope) are gonna eat this up. I took a look at the legislation he has sponsored, and good percentage of it is all about "health and nutrition" or more specificically, about the regulations put on schools and resturants regarding the caloric intake of other people. Because apparently, people are too stupid to know that a pile of french fries covered in cheese and gravy are bad for you...
I guess though since he doesn't have THAT much REAL power, he is trying to take control over what he actually CAN affect.

"I carry around salami and cheese in a little bag in case I go to a party where they only serve pizza or something. And I don't go to restaurants that serve only pizza or pasta or that serve vegetarian food."

You don't go to restaurants that serve vegetarian food (that was probably a miswording)? Serious, what about if you're with friends or family and it's more about spending time with them than getting the meal you really want? You could go to a pizza joint and order a salad, right?

I guess people who keep ultra kosher or who have life-threatening food allergies have to do the same thing. I wouldn't trust restaurant food at all if my throat closed up every time I ate a peanut. In some places the staff don't always know exactly what's really in the food, and sometimes their English is so limited that they might not understand the question. MSG is actually my big no-no and I am wary of Asian restaurants, even the ones that swear no MSG - all it means is they don't dump an extra tablespoon in my portion, but all their pre-made sauces could already adulterated.

Makes you think about how trusting we are about who cooks our food! In other historical periods, murder by poisoning was a real danger. The only real way to be sure your food wasn't poisoned was to prepare it all yourself. Now, of course, we have plenty of guns, pipes, and knives for those DIY killers.

> More than one sci-fi author has postulated
> that there is a fixed amount of intelligence
> in the world, and that it is diluted by numbers.

No. Schools work. Loving, disciplined families work. Stupidity, though a powerful natural force never to be fully extinguished, can be driven from souls... even weak ones.

But—

> I submit that it is further concealed
> by the squealing noises of the
> truly stupid.

Yes. All our media and communications and the rest are made available to people who don't have clear thinking to share. (The channel owners make more money that way.) And by "all the rest", I mean aviation schools in Florida, who teach bitter bachelors from primitive cultures how to fly planes but not how to land them. I'm not saying modern resources should be doled out only to those who deserve them (how would we know?), just that they aren't. If you're a foolish person who thinks vaccines cause autism, the media will amplify your voice, even if it's bad for everyone else.

> Maybe the Jews will defeat it - kosher meat is
> heavily salted during processing.

A sensible thing to hope... But what kind of name is "Bloomberg", anyway?

> statists continue their assault
> on every sector

It's not just that these particular people are going to be surprised when the jackbooted thugs come for their teenage daughters, and they find that the courts aren't interested (though that will be a sweet moment for you & I)... It's that they're going to be surprised when they've lived low-sodium lives but get sick and die anyway (which will be even sweeter).

> useless fact for the day, 85% of
> people with high blood pressure
> have absolutely no response to salt

Not exactly "rapier", but as a Lisinopril consumer, I'll take it.

> Mix well honey and lemon juice.
> Add bourbon or brandy.

Flynne: Cocktail dresses, good southern rock, low blood pressure, talented daugthers, and well-flavored "medications". Could you be any more alluring?

> I say good on you, New York, for
> keeping the most pressing issues
> at the forefront of public and
> legislative attention!

Sarcasm like that, on point and concise, almost makes the recent transfer of global authority from Manhattan to DC seem appropriate. Not quite, but almost.

Y'know, watching how the city responded to 9/11 was a fucking thrill. We knew that some of the brightest, most competitve, best-educated spirits in the world were reponding to an inexplicable crisis. But after that, nothing. Many, many critiques of the Bush administration from the NYC publishing and financial circles were directly on point, but we never had the sense that they could suggest anything better. Competing only with each other –however ferociously– for corner offices in Midtown had left them provincial and naive.

> I stopped watching as soon as I
> saw that ignorant cunt Meme Roth.

Don't say "cunt". People here don't understand.

> Most places don't cook fresh from
> scratch; they get a lot of their
> base ingredients pre-processed

Important point.

> A lot of mediocre restaurants
> and food-service establishments
> routinely use salt as a
> substitute for skillful cooking.

A MORE important point. But I've also heard it said, by (and of) chefs I admire most in the world, that the secret to good food is to push the salt and pepper as far as you possibly can.

> Restaurants are a luxery, not a
> necessity, and certainly not a
> right.

Exactly. They're an indulgence anyway.

> When I experimented with
> veganism, I packed acceptable
> food everywhere I went.

A friend planned a bike ride across the United States, but abandoned the project when he realized that Taco Hut and Burger Doodle were going to be his only lunch options in most of those little towns. You don't have to be a diet-zombie to understand not wanting to eat that much salt (or animal fat) (or preservative material).

A friend planned a bike ride across the United States, but abandoned the project when he realized that Taco Hut and Burger Doodle were going to be his only lunch options in most of those little towns.

That's sad. Half the fun of taking cross-country trips is sampling the awful food at the local equivalent of the Waffle House.

Most places don't cook fresh from
> scratch; they get a lot of their
> base ingredients pre-processed

This made me think of something else. (Forgive me, I am not very good a financial or business speak and will try to make as much sense as possible)
Let's say that this legislation actually does pass. The bill states that this legislation has no fiscal implications on state and local govt. While it's true the gov't won't feel a thing, at first, it sure as hell does have fiscal implications on the private business owners of the resturants and manufacters of the pre-processed items they use. The legislation says they can't put salt in the food they are cooking and if they do they will be fined $1000 per use. (whatever "per use" means). Those fines alone could set back hundreds of businesses. Also, I didn't see anything about the food that is already pre-processed.(unless I missed it somwhere; I'll admit I only skimmed it) How can they regulate the salt in that? It would be virtually impossible to do so wouldn't it? And if they tried, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that that kind if regulation could very well put some resturants and even distributers out of business? How does that NOT have a fiscal implication of the local gov't. They lose revenue on that business from the taxes, licensing fees, etc... This legislation is not only stupid from a practical and human aspect, but also a fiscal one IMO.

I've come to realize there's no way I could make Atkins work for me. Aside from the fact that no-carb foods are nearly impossible to come by, it's just a matter of palate.

Foods that shouldn't contain carbs, like hotdogs, lunchmeat, sausage, etc., have carbs put in them.

Plus it leaves a taste in mouth that an entire pallet of Listerine would not get rid of. The meat doesn't digest. It just rots, sending the aroma up my throat as if passing through a chimney.

Bleah. Nasty way to eat.

And aside from fact that all-meat is a war on common sense that I suspect we'll soon learn is dangerous in ways we haven't discovered, there is no evidence, none, that human beings were intended to subsist on all meat. From tooth to sphincter, we do not resemble carnivores. Our nearest relatives in the animal kingdom are not carnivores. They're primarily vegetarians. Although the terms "carnivore" and "herbivore" are apparently not absolute terms. Check out this interesting piece of information I found about giant pandas: "Though it belongs to the order Carnivora, the Giant Panda's diet is 99% bamboo."

Uh...what??? Unless bamboo is an animal and no one told me, this makes no sense to me.

But tis no matter. The carb-addicts diet was great to me. I can live happily on that.

There is no one best diet in the world. The one you can stick with is the one you need.

"Plus it leaves a taste in mouth that an entire pallet of Listerine would not get rid of. The meat doesn't digest. It just rots, sending the aroma up my throat as if passing through a chimney."

Ketosis. It stinks. And rhymes with halitosis for a reason.

"Flynne: Cocktail dresses, good southern rock, low blood pressure, talented daughters, and well-flavored "medications". Could you be any more alluring?"

You forgot to mention her .30-06. Yeeow!

Sign the petition today to protect your right to make your own food choices.

MyFoodMyChoice.org

Sabrina "This made me think of something else. (Forgive me, I am not very good a financial or business speak and will try to make as much sense as possible)"

That's exactly what I was thinking. You said it just fine. It'll affect not just the restaurants but everyone else in the supply chain.

Now this isn't always a bad thing overall, unless you worship the free market and think industrialists can do no wrong. I think there's plenty wrong with the food industry and with the oversight of it as well. But then, think about the scale of the melamine disaster in China, where adulterated milk caused kidney stones in 400,000 babies. The people who knowingly engaged in this practice never dreamed it would actually poison people, I'm sure. And yet, in the absence of any real oversight, some enterprising soul would certainly try that here - don't think that they wouldn't.

It seems these people didn't pay attention in chemistry. I do not salt prepared food (because it just tastes salty to me), but salting before or during cooking is essential to bring out the flavors of the ingredients. Ever have rice, pasta, or potatoes cooked without salt? Nasty. Even steamed vegetables will taste better if salted beforehand. Most everything I cook starts out with olive oil, butter, shallot, and a pinch of salt. People who have dietary restrictions are (for the most part) smart enough to stay away from certain restaurants that can't cater to them, and many restaurants make it easy for you. I was at a really nice steakhouse recently, and right there on the menu it said to tell your server if you have any special needs or requests regarding diet, including low-sodium. I have been to restaurants without any meatless dishes that will prepare something special for me (Sol in downtown Franklin being one of my favorites) if I ask. They do the same for people with food allergies and sensitivities. No reason to punish other people for your food issues.

I can't view the video right now, but are those pickles they're showing? There are adult people in this country that don't know that pickles are cucumbers brined in salt? I am certain people who have been advised to follow low-sodium diets know not to eat freaking pickles. It's not like they don't taste salty, either.

> You forgot to mention her .30-06.

Yeah, women who protect their own interests are even more attractive. But if you happen to catch me blog-bitching at her again in some future comment, insist I stand down. (Not that I'll listen.)

> Sol in downtown Franklin being one of my favorites

Wherezzat? Wikipedia says there are four Franklins in California alone.

Let's use some common sense people. It should NOT be a law not to use salt. Yes, it is in almost everything. And I'm sure I will be pillared, but I do think low salt foods should be offered.

I have always been sensitive to the taste of salt. I sometimes cannot eat food because it tastes too salty to me. Ironically, there may be a reason I am so sensitive to the taste of salt, I AM sensitive to it.

I normally have low blood pressure - about 96 over 70, but after a dinner of Mexican food, served with queso and chips, my blood pressure soared to 150 over 110.

I read up on it and found that reactive high blood pressure can be as dangerous as having continuously high blood pressure, only it can be much more insidious - I never knew I had the problem until I had a stroke.

I have persistently slightly low blood pressure (most probably genetic) --- if I don't salt everything I eat my blood pressure drops and I get light-headed and dizzy etc. In fact it was on the advice of more than one doctor that I started putting salt on my food at all; low blood can be very bad for you. Flavour-wise I really don't care, which is why I have to always remind myself to salt my food.

But either way, this is sick. This is a personal decision by individuals. I can't believe my eyes. These bureaucrats are running amok and riding roughshod over liberty.

Government "rarely goes back", as John Stossel says, because these useless losers funding their useless salaries themselves with tax money obviously aren't going to say "hey, let's put ourselves out of a job". So we end up in an economy like this spending money on the salaries of leeches who sit in offices creating the nanny state to create ever more jobs for useless people. It's all about growing the cut of the tax pie; they aren't exactly going to drop their own jobs. I call them "pseudo-welfare" jobs, because they're getting tax money for doing nothing useful, just being kept off the street.

"And I'm sure I will be pillared, but I do think low salt foods should be offered."

Depends ... tell me if you think the state should mandate that restaurants be required by force of law to offer low salt foods on their menu, then I'll decide whether or not to pillar you :)

Sorry, Crid, I'm just so used to calling it "downtown Franklin," but it's Franklin, TN, a bit south of Nashville. Sol is a fantastic upscale Mexican restaurant (which happens to be attached to Merridee's, a fantastic bakery and breakfast/lunch place). They make a mean enchilada verde there, and the waiter had the kitchen make one for me with all kinds of peppers and onions instead of chicken. Come on down sometime, Crid. They make the guacamole right at the table.

Jen, most places that actually prepare the food onsite will do low salt for you if you ask. I rarely order straight off the menu at my favorite places, because I know they are really nice and will substitute or leave something out if I ask politely. In return, they get my repeat business. Restaurants tend to care more about that than having you eat your food the way they like it, so they will leave out the salt, or the whatever-it-is that you're allergic to, or (in my case) the meat, because it makes the customers happy. They should not be punished because people complain to the government instead of asking.

I love how these fascist nitwits always introduce such plainfully obvious totalitarian legislation all in the name of the "public good".

Amy, I'm sure you've read enough Heinlein, where he states (paraphrasing here) about how everyone who wants government to force others to stop somebody else's behavior that they do not find appealing, but never their own. (I think it was "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress")

Sad, sad, sad, indeed.

6, next time you're in town, go to this store, ask to see the archtops, and think of me. I'll be particularly interested in your feelings about the the '59 L-5C. And if they let you try the '73 D'Aquisto, call me on your cell.

Then go back to Franklin, have an enchilada and think of me again.

By the way, does everyone remember when playful youth meant carefree, clock-stopping moments like this ?

Me neither.

(Note airliner.)

Crid, I don't play, but I can recognize quality and artistry when I see it. Growing up here, I've seen it an awful lot. I went to school with Steve Wariner and Eddie Rabbitt's kids, and they'd sometimes let us strum a little when they'd come play for us. The musicians, I mean, not the kids. Although, sometimes...oh, never mind.

I'm just so used to calling it "downtown Franklin," but it's Franklin, TN, a bit south of Nashville.

I did laundry there once. I was camping nearby and popped in to do laundry and pick up some supplies for a week on the Appalachian Trail.

And, yes, I bought salt.

In case this hasn't been covered yet (I haven't read all the comments), here is a classic article on sodium by Gary Taubes:
http://tinyurl.com/y9lxq28

NumberSix, you live in Franklin? I'm in Huntsville, about an hour and a half down I-65 from you.

Judging from the six months in my young adult years when I tried being a vegetarian, I think a lot of food Nazis are people who are trying to rationalize their own eating disorders. A bunch of them have elimination fixations too -- you're sitting in a restaurant trying to eat your veggie burger in peace, and they want to come up to you and tell you about their poop.

"From tooth to sphincter"

Um, actually Patrick, the proof that our species was intended to eat meat BEGINS at the teeth. Look in the mirror, see those sharper teeth there? Yes, those are the same type of teeth found on other meat eating predatory species. Now I'm not saying we were meant to be 100% carnivor, such as lions. But that is pretty much proof positive that we are intended to consume the flesh of other animals. We're omnivorous, and that works well...but nowhere that has available meat, is the vegetable the food of choice for those who get to choose.

...except of course, the modern day vegan nuts.

Excellent point at the end though, the one you can stick with is the one you need...I'm going to remember that phrase.

I'm in Huntsville, about an hour and a half down I-65 from you.

Howdy, neighbor!

I'm constantly surprised by the people who either want to convert me to more extreme vegetarianism or think I'm a nut like they are. I've eaten lunch three times a week for a year before with people who don't realize I'm a vegetarian. You know why? Because I don't make a big deal out of it. It's my choice (based on my nausea at trying to eat meat, not any sort of moral issue) and not anyone else's issue to deal with. I don't live a "vegetarian lifestyle," I just choose not to eat meat. My friends still offer me bites of their food when we go out, and I haven't eaten meat in ten years. They actually forget I don't eat it because I don't constantly remind people. I think you're right about people trying to rationalize their own issues with food. If they convert other people, then it's totally normal, right?