A woman with a moustache is like a guy who never showers. It is impossible to ignore and highlights either the persons complete lack of self awarness on a very frightening level or a severe lack of self esteem.

I have BO like any guy but I sweat like you wouldnt beleive, so I drink a couple of gallons water a day to keep my body temp down, I take a shower before running out to the store or a date or going to bed. I put my dirty socks inside their own thick cloth bag to block the smell becuase man do my socks smell

This reminds me of one of the first dates I got from an online site. I remember my first impression when I met her in person was "Hey, I shaved for this date. Why didn't you?" She had a fuller mustache than I do.

I went ahead with the date. She was VERY different than I expected. She didn't believe in wearing makeup either...the posted pic was one of only two times she had ever had makeup on.

So, what's the actual metric being used to define 'facial hair' here?

Is it the nearly invisible fuzz that all women have, or are we talking full on wolfman (or wolfwoman, if we're being 'appropriate')?

If a woman has a bit of visible fuzz, and is otherwise attractive and personable, I don't see that as an issue. However, if her facial hair resembles Magnum, PI, or, God forbid, Rasputin, I'll be offering up some Nair (or a job offering at the nearest circus) for her next Christmas gift.

I'm beginning to think that 'confident and beautiful' is code for 'run for your life!!'

My girlfriends with facial hair have no problem getting dates, and that is because they are confident and beautiful women.

And because they are dating other "confident and beautiful" women.

Like Tim says, there's facial hair and there's facial hair. Sometimes dark-complected women will have a fine, slightly dark wisp over their lips; that doesn't bother me much, especially if it's offset by pretty eyes or interesting cheekbones or such. But too much facial hair is like too much of anything. I remember one woman I worked with briefly years ago whose face was covered with the fine, white, downy stuff. She wore a lot of makeup, too, and the effect kind of reminded me of matted fur, like a kitty just emerged from the bathtub.

The question is overly simplistic. No one is perfect - everyone has good points and bad points.

Let's ask a question from the other side: "How many women would date a guy who's broke?" The answer is, it depends. Why is he broke? Is he a bum? A fresh college graduate who hasn't started his career? An entrepreneur who's just sunk all his money into starting a company?

For this specific question: how much facial hair? If it's really a lot, is there a reason she hasn't she done something about it?

We each have an idea of our value on the meat market, and we tend to search our potential partners whose total attractiveness is somewhere in the same value range as ours. In this concrete example, facial hair is part of a total package. The question is: what else is in the package?

i assume facial hair means peach fuzz - who doesn't have that?

Everyone's being very polite here today...let's cut to the chase: facial hair on a woman is nasty. It's a) unattractive, b) distracting (who's going to notice your amazing intellect or personality when they're busy staring at your 'stache?) and c) extremely fixable.

If your problem is that you're flat-chested or have a big nose or are 20 pounds overweight, then there's not much you can do about that between now and your next date. Waxing your mustache, however, is so doable and easy that failing to do so, as lujlp points out, is a sign that you're oblivious or don't care at all what you look like.

Women do other women a huge disservice when they tell them not to care about little things that they should care about. It's like telling a guy "oh, don't bother to take 5 seconds to put on deoderant; women don't care if you smell like ass."

The metric here is a mustache. I'm writing a response to a question I have yet to post here yet, but where I wrote about a woman with a mustache. The feminist girl wrote me back, contending what she did above in response.

If she otherwise looks like Bar Refaeli, the 'stache would be no problem, I suspect. As you slide down the beauty scale, the 'stache becomes more relevant.

More generally speaking, it is best to do any minimal work necessary to increase your attractiveness to the pool of people you wish to date. Writing angy, denial-filled letters to advice columnists changes that general rule not at all.

Why is that so hard for so people to accept?

Wrote back to her:

There's something wrong with your contention that you:

1. Have a quantity of friends with facial hair, meaning mustaches, per the question.

2. These friends have boyfriends, and are attractive to men.

It just doesn't pass the smell test. You clearly are clueless about what men want, because it's likely only a guy with a furry woman fetish is going to date a woman with a mustache. Or a blind man. Feminists typically traffic in what "should" be instead of what actually is.

Feel free to reply and clarify. I suspect he reason you have ducked my previous questions (how many of these women have mustaches and boyfriends) is that you made the above stuff up, out of wishful thinking, and a desire to prove the bullshit contentions of feminism right (about beauty standards, etc.)

I previously tried to nail the girl down, and got no answer (she ducked the question): "How many of your friends have mustaches and boyfriends?"

Her response to that question:

"I don't think you should write men off as so shallow. I don't think any of your questions are worth answering, because I feel like your intention is to put me down. My friends with facial hair get hit on by all sorts of men, totally main stream to hippy feminist men. They also have dated all sorts of men. I usually really respect what you have to say, and have even gotten advice from you before, but I just thought this was small minded and i wanted to let you know."

I have a female friend with an honest-to-gawd goatee. She sometimes trims it but never shaves. I haven't asked her why she doesn't shave, because I feel that's too personal a question, and her choice anyway. I've kind of gotten used to seeing it, but it's still rather distracting, and I can't for the life of me figure out why she doesn't get it waxed. BTW, she's gay, so maybe that has something to do with it . . . ?

Amy, the way you have written it is a little confusing. You jumped from facial hair to mustache.

One of the prettier women I know has a dense, short growth of hair on her face below her sideburns. I think she keeps it under control by bleaching or something. In any case, I doubt she had any problems with getting dates!

"How many of you guys would date a woman with a mustache?"

How big are her tits?

"I have a female friend with an honest-to-gawd goatee. BTW, she's gay, so maybe that has something to do with it . . . ?"

Ya think?

@ Scott -- It would be a no brainer, except that she's very feminine other than the goatee, not at all butch.

"I don't think you should write men off as so shallow." Then you are living in fantasy land.

There are cultural/ethnic differences here to take into account in her defense. Men who are FOB from Eastern Europe will be less likely to notice facial hair especially if they are older. In some areas facial hair is viewed as a sign of fertility, more so out in the rural areas. In truth while not a sign of fertility it can be an indicator of an elevated sex drive due to testosterone levels.

"My friends with facial hair get hit on by all sorts of men" This can be a result of a confluence of several factors. First unless she's sporting a Lou Albano stash it's not that noticeable at a distance. If the guy is younger and just left a table full of giggling frat boys he just drew the short straw. Getting laid has lower standards than dating. Some men drank the militant feminist cool-aid and believe it is their duty to eschew looks for a "deeper connection". There are guys who just like facial hair, just like guy who prefer size 16 to 2 or bald women, amputees, etc. Also I've been told that angry feminists are particularly fun in the sack.

Come on people do not let a mustache get in the way of the message. We can not all be like Paul Henry. Next Amy will be investigated and censured for not being understanding!

Mustache Gate II!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/2299151/Henry-faces-up-to-moustache-gate

Not me. My wife won't let me date other women, fuzzy or not.

Seriously, call me shallow, but it would be a deal breaker. It's always there, in your face, making it pretty much impossible to ignore. Well, you could always stare at her chest, but that doesn't usually go over well either.

"I don't think you should write men off as so shallow."

Translation: men whose sexuality does not conform with my hopes are "shallow" or some other insult. When you see a gal slip into the "but *real* men behave in this way..." insults, it is time to ignore them.

"My friends with facial hair get hit on by all sorts of men, totally main stream to hippy feminist men. They also have dated all sorts of men."

Ever been in a bar with someone you don't know very well, and they start discussing economics or politics? They use phrases like "Everyone knows...." or "You cannot deny..." or "No one can say..." when making their points.

When I see "all sorts" in the above post, I get the same feeling I do during those conversations in the bar.

Photo from mustache-gate here:

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1251550838/998/2814998.jpg

I asked my brothers and my BF if they would date a woman with noticable facial hair. ALL of them said, "Depends. Does she remove it?" One brother said, "Not if it's thicker than mine!" Another said, "I wouldn't be able to stop staring at it, so probably not." The 3rd brother said "Oh HELL no! Are you kidding?" And BF said, "I love you anyway!" After I twisted his nipple, he admitted he was kidding (FTR, I do NOT have noticable facial hair, other than the stray eyebrow or 3 that I pluck from my chin!), but said it would probably be a deal-breaker for him as well. So there you have it, folks - in my little survey, 3 out of 4 said No.
o.O

Amy, that photo? Looks like a guy who played guitar in a band I was in a LONG time ago!

I actually DID date a girl with a a moderate mustache in high school, back when I was young and didn't know anything.

From my point of view, it's not necessarily a physical flaw, just a lack of attention to detail. She was also a slob, rarely wore makeup, and didn't really know to dress well; all things which are part self-discipline and part self-education. Sure, it's a value judgement in the long-run, but in no way can it be a some plus, and it usually means something deeper than simply "she facial hair". It's a choice, after all; conscious or not.

(For the record, she had a nice rack; that was her plus. I was young! Impressionable!!)

As for the feminists I've known, it all relies on a foundation of delusion and theory which you can never challenge. Once you've gotten to platitudes like "Men shouldn't judge Women based on beauty", you're not too far from "Men are evil". And, of course, once you've question why they think that, you're one of "them".

No.

Let me be more concise. No.

Allow me to expand: One leg, fine. One arm, fine. Tatto hidden by clothing, maybe okay.

Face hair, no. Pit hair, no.

"totally main stream to hippy feminist men"

This person lives in an oxymoron.

What happened to my actual answer to the poll? I will try to reconstruct it here. If this doesn't post I shall give up.

Date a woman with a mustache? No.

Let me rephrase that: No.

Allow me to expand: Missing fingers or toes, yes. Missing limbs, yes.

Facial hair? No.

Pit hair: No.

I've heard that women in other countries can get away with facial hair that's, er, in your face, i.e. more noticeable than the kind of dainty peach fuzz most women have. Here in the U.S., however, we like our gals with hair on their heads, not their faces (or underarms or legs for that matter). Maybe I've drunk the Kool-Aid or maybe it's just that I grew up here in America in a family of glamor girls who wouldn't be caught dead with even the tiniest bit of facial hair, but I like my face sans mustache or beard-in-training, thank you. Happily, in this modern society of ours, it's ridiculously easy to get rid of facial hair, with tools ranging from tweezers to razors to hair-removal goop to electrolysis, and if I should need any of that, I'm happy to use it. If other ladies want to go around looking like hermaphrodites, that's their style choice and I'll respect it, but the mustachioed look just isn't a good fit for my tastes and lifestyle, thanks anyway! :-)

*****I don't think any of your questions are worth answering, because I feel like your intention is to put me down. ******

Translation: I have no actual facts, and cannot back up my argument, so I will deflect by saying you're a big 'ol meanypants.

And moustaches on women - ewww, ewww, ewwww.

It is rumored that certain homeless men, in their more desperate moments, will ask a woman with a mustache on a date. So the woman may have a point.

Girlfriends with facial hair? Women are mammals so they do naturally have facial hair. But I've only met a rare few who had "mustaches" enough that it would discourage guys.
If she has several friends with it, either she lives in a circus or more likely her concept of having a "mustache" is out of wack.

Here's a tip for you fellow brunettes: a cotton ball soaked in hydrogen peroxide swiped over any body hair once a day will bleach it out. Of course, some facial hair would still be noticable even if blonde. Hydrogen peroxide is also a great toner for break-out prone skin. And super cheap!

If it's visible and obvious enough to make bystanders uncomfortable, then ew, no way I'd date a woman with one.

If she had other 'qualities' that were just too amazing to ignore, I might consider it 'on the balance'. But the mustache would remain high on the list of "negatives" ... I would never, ever regard it as an attractive attribute in and of itself.

I linked this on Facebook and am running an informal poll.

Thanks, Beth. I was going to run an actual poll here, but then I thought some of the feminists sites that get upset about my writing might try to skew the results.

I wonder how many of the guys here who would refuse to date a woman whose only flaw was extra hair on her upper lip, also get bitter at the notion that women only date them for their paychecks.

I'm blessed, I guess, to come from an ethnic group where women have that upper-lip hair more often than not. It's apparent in the older women, who at some point apparently decided that the degree of hair on their faces had zero to do with their personal character or their ability to get along in life. They're married, too, and happily, from what I can tell.

There are people today who, I kid you not, agonize over whether to get divorced because somebody grew a stray hair or gained twenty pounds. Then they have the audacity to complain that they can't get dates, can't get married, can't get any help when they get sick because they're all alone, etc. Well I wonder why. You won't put any of your own energy into caring about others so why should they care about you? You're a big zero, a veritable black hole of self-absorption, and your picture is next to the entry for "vanity" in the dictionary.

Guess what? It's relationships, not shopping. She's a person, not a product. Get over yourself for five minutes. It wouldn't kill you.

Also, what is it with American men (and their female sycophants) insisting on women looking like prepubescent girls with breast implants? I've always wanted to know.

I love furry dogs.

>>there's a difference between caring about somebody's looks and or employment and caring only about that.

Good one, Amy.

When my son and daughter were young, I had talks with them about this topic.

I told them normal conduct for men sometimes offends women, and normal conduct for women sometimes offends men. It is necessary to evaluate them to see if their conduct is normal for their gender.

For example, is normal for women to seek men who will be able to help support them and their kids. It is not normal for a woman to be a conniving gold-digger who marries a man just long enough to get alimony and property settlement. If she plans to supply him with his needs, and to be a faithful, supportive wife, then her concern with his income is logical and normal.

It is normal for a man to want his honey's body. It is not normal for a man to lie to a woman, get her knocked up, then abandon her. Nor is it normal for a man to rape a woman. If he is willing to be faithful and be there for her, then his sexual desires are somewhat normal.

"Also, what is it with American men (and their female sycophants) insisting on women looking like prepubescent girls with breast implants? I've always wanted to know." As opposed to fat, dumpy, kitchen bound baby factories?

"You won't put any of your own energy into caring about others so why should they care about you?" Just cause I'd help a hairy lipped homely women out if she was in a bind dose not mean I want to marry or date her. Caring about others and marrying or dating are two very different things.

No more comments about Lou's sox.

Dude.

Hilarious little thing going on on Twitter. I tweeted:

Help me out (please retweet) - would guys date a woman with a mustache? Irate feminist reader says yes. Comments here: http://bit.ly/8YMaRx

@lowcarbgrouch tweets:

That's disgusting, you're disgusting, and so are your readers, just so you know. Like the entire male gender reads you anyway.

Naturally, I retweeted her remark, which I found hilarious. My next tweet:

She's upset at my contention (shocking!) that men find women with mustaches unattractive.

Never ceases to amaze me, feminist denial of human nature. Like just wanting things to be different will make them different. Dim.

"My friends with facial hair get hit on by all sorts of men, totally main stream to hippy feminist men."

IIIIIIII think I'm gonna barf.

No matter how attractive a woman may be, facial hair, or for that matter leg, underarm, or overly abundant forearm hair, are a turn-off for me. Hirsuteness leans too much towards male for my tastes.

"Face hair, no. Pit hair, no"

Ok, I need to say something about this - its a long standing phobia on my part since I was a small kid. Pit hair and excessive facial hair on women make me uncomfortable.

I feel like I am being forced to look at their vagina.

There I said it. I know, it's crazy. I can't help it.

I'm okay with pit hair. I'll accept but not be happy with nipple hair. Mustache, no.

That said, if feminist correspondent lives in San Francisco or Berkeley or Eugene or some such hippyish town, the men in their circle may well overlook the failure to wax the face.

Anyone here see "Intermission?" A running joke throughout the movie was the mustache on an otherwise-pretty girl.

My vote: Ugh.

Oh, Feebie, that was hilarious! Thank you.

Hah - loved that, Feebie (despite the eeeuw! factor).

I'm lost as to all the rancor at men who don't like mustached women. I can't see any difference between this and male personal grooming. Most women wont go near a guy with a thick bushy un-kept beard and hair. I know this because I had no interest in personal grooming during some point in college. I took up and interest in it and wow like magic girls stopped ignoring my or shunning me. It's the indicator that the person is probably a slob in large part of the US. What constitutes slob will vary by region and time period.

Ha! Amy, I saw that tweet. Well, I have to say, she DOES have grouch in her name. LOL

I almost tweeted back that she probably has a moustache, but I decided I didn't want to start an Internet war today. :D

> I'm beginning to think that 'confident
> and beautiful' is code for 'run for
> your life!!'

Women talk too much about inner beauty, as if it mattered when men (or any sensate animals) were considering regular beauty.

> I don't think any of your questions are
> worth answering, because I feel like your
> intention is to put me down.

Women are sometimes too eager to "feel" things. So are other kinds of people, but especially women. OK, not especially women, but we're talking about women. You ask them to consider other people's feelings, but all they can talk about is their own.

This is part of the Prager thing I've mentioned here before. The radio host once said that the demon from their sexuality which women need to conquer in order to be good people is the belief that their feelings and the feelings of their loved ones are of paramount importance.

After chewing on that for about 15 years, I'd go farther: Women are naturally diposed (in youthful naiveté, at least) to believe that in matters of feeling, identity is irrelevant... Or at least, it should be.

Got that? They think that when everything's going well and people are behaving correctly, then we'll all be feeling the same thing. They think feelings are like oxygen, where we're all toking from the same supply. If you're feeling something that others (or they themselves) aren't feeling, then it's because you did something naughty, like sneak in with your own scuba tank.

I've seen this thousands of times on this blog, in comments as well as is advice letters. ('But it's NOT POSSIBLE that he could be feeling X, because I'm so strongly feeling Y!') The beauty of this scheme is that the righteousness of their own feelings is never in doubt. They're a magical compass!

I think beauty, especially physical beauty in women, is something to enjoy in the moment. Those feelings aren't supposed to automatically compel you to consider inner righteousness or to launch fantasies of a fecund, mutually-supportive, decades-long marriage or any of the rest of it. When you see a woman with a nice rack, you're supposed to think this: "Nice rack!"

Notwithstanding all the above, I think this woman's just being dorky.

Also, what is it with American men (and their female sycophants) insisting on women looking like prepubescent girls with breast implants? I've always wanted to know.

Posted by: Dana

We dont like hair in our teeth, plus smooth shin is more sensitive and eaier to stimulate then coarse pubic hair

There will ever be people with little hygenic peccadilloes, and those are able to see past them for the wonderful person within. They just don't always meet up, or at least not right away.

Peachfuzz gives a sense of un-kempt-ness, as do unshaven legs, (no matter how much Mo'nique swears her man loves it). Loose hairs around the lip or chin, or god help us, sprouting out of a mole, are in the area of not bathing or choosing the shirt with a hole in it just cause it's comfortable. Poor choices, ones that would cause a negative first impression, no matter how great your personality is.

Yes, it's more acceptable for men to go about unshaven, but even then there's a line between going for the "unshaven look" (which usually requires a bit of trimming so it looks good) and just "not shaving". Even when actually going for a beard, there's a period where you look like a damn fool with the wisps of hair starting. But on the whole, women don't have (much) facial or body hair, and most choose to remove what little they have when it gets too obvious. So seeing those who don't are the exception, and that draws attention, and in some cases, outright revulsion.

An actual moustache, however, might be another animal. Carried off successfully, a moustache or a beard on a woman would likely be far more attractive than peachfuzz.

There've been a number of famous bearded ladies in history, over and above the ones in sideshows. A famous tavern in France called
Le Cafe de La Femme à Barbe (The Bearded Lady's cafe) was owned by a Catherine Delait who, mocking a bearded lady at a carnival, said she could grow a better one. She simply stopped shaving, and her fame grew with her chin-warmer.

A person can make any look rock if they do it right and walk with confidence. I've seen fat women dress and carry themselves so well that they looked fabulous. Camryn Manheim is one of our favorite examples. Similarly I've seen (Hell, I KNOW) women the same weight or less walk around slouching, looking like unmade beds, and insisting people "accept her for who she is". There's a big of a distance between being yourself and brushing up a bit when you're gonna be around people.

In fact, we can thank the Gilette corporation for our opinion of pit and leg hair on women. They decided they needed a new market, so they placed a series of articles in all the best magazines claiming that body hair on a woman was unseemly, and their sales skyrocketed. But victim of marketing or not, it's what's accepted now. And anyone choosing to buck the trend are going to draw unwanted looks, regardless of their desire to strike out for freedom.

@Amy The few feminists I count among my friends are unlikely to disagree that female facial hair is a turn-off. However, they are sure to protest my statement that my high testosterone levels might make me aggressive, sex-crazed and logical like a man, but I don't want to look like one.

A comment from the discussion on my Facebook in regards to western male gender identity and facial hair:

But guys have a "checklist" just like chicks but I think are just less formal about it and the idea of jackhammering away and ignoring that bored look on your girlfriend's face is tad harder when your girlfriend looks like Errol Fucking Flynn. Every guy keeps a mental checklist of things that are his and make his identity valid. It's hard to muster the will to fuck someone who has one of these things a guy has decided is exclusively male province.

Depends. If you're talking Cindy Crawford with a milk moustache, in a second. If you're talking about any other kind, never.

I wonder what the ratio of mustached women to mustache fetishists is?

I know chubby chasers are about 1 in 8, while chubby women are about 1 in 3, so odds are not in their favor.

But I wonder how many mustache fetishists there are? I really have only ever seen a handful of women with facial hair in my life... it is possible that the mustache fetishists are deprived.

Also, www.womenwithmustaches.com

Luj!! TMI!!! o.O

This is like the teen boy who works at thinking he can bag the hot cheerleader/supermodel etc. on personality alone and his volvo/gremlin/buick stationwagon isn't a factor. Anything is possible but reality is it won't likely happen.

I'll go along with female facial hair as long as I hear no complaints about male back hair.

Women with pit hair don't bother me too much. Perhaps because I saw it in Europe when I was younger.

cen't help but think the subtlety is just lost here.
there is a different set of rules of attraction between seeing someone from afar and wanting to meet them, and meeting someone for other reasons [like a volunteer group or job] and GROWING to be attracted because of that interaction.

This basically works the same for all sorts of things that might be seen as a flaw one way, and irrelevant the other way. That's probably where a femenist gets off track, by not wanting to see the Original rule of attraction. Before you know a person, what do you see?

I have pointed out before to a friend who is fairly feminist in her views, that looking for someone that you already have a relationship with, to then take it to a romantic realtionship, is a much smaller group of people than all possible people to date. You are cutting your opportunities quite a bit that way. She said she didn't care, and I said that was fine as long as she was making a conscious choice to narrow her potential.

I know women who never wear makeup and such, and would certainly not do something like remove a mustashe. Some eventually found mates, and some never did... but they certainly weren't maximizing their chances.

heh, and from Lyle Lovett:

Given that true intellectual and emotional compatability
Are at the very least difficult
If not impossible to come by
We could always opt for the more temporal gratification
Of sheer physical attraction
That wouldn't make you a shallow person
Would it?

[Here I Am]

For the record? For me it depends, on an overall package, a woman isn't just one thing, but most importantly it depends on if she is trying...

For me, the 'stache thing is kind of like when guys say they can tell a lot about a girl by how she takes care of her feet. If she doesn't take the time to wax her facial hair off....where else is she skimping in the hygeine department? I know, I know....that's not always the case....but it usually is. Sure, girls with staches get hit on a lot...in dark bars. I don't see why you wouldn't just get rid of it.

I can grow a pretty serious stache if I choose to...I can also grow a uni-brow. It is not a sexy look, so I groom my face. I'm not a high-maintenance kind of girl. I rarely wear more than a little mascara as far as make up goes, so it's not that I feel I always need to look perfect, it's just hygeine to me. I guess the hair on my upper lip wouldn't really hurt anything, but I don't like how it looks or feels.

I always love when the femenists say crap like "you're trying to put me down". What are they doing? Am I any less of a woman because I choose to put a little effort into how I look? Because I understand that men may not be as attracted to me if I don't? Not only do I understand, I'm okay with it. I'm not sure I'd be attracted to a guy with a full, unkempt beard....by the same toekn, I'm not at all attracted to men who over-groom. Men should look like men and women should look like women as far as I'm concerned.

Still, though, if 1 out of 10,000 men has a stache fetish, but one out of 20,000 women has one... the odds are in their favor. It would mean half the stache lovers would be sad and stacheless.

I wonder what the odds are. There probably isn't a study out there is there.

"We dont like hair in our teeth, plus smooth shin is more sensitive and eaier to stimulate then coarse pubic hair"

Agreed. It's not only more appealing for him, it feels about 100 times better for me. I don't do it all the time, but when I do WOW. Ladies-if you haven't tried it, you need to. Don't do it for him, do it for you. Trust me.

That said, guys that insist on it always being completely hair free creep me out a little. There are guys that prefer it (understandable) and then there are guys that won't go near you if it's not. Creepy.

Guys often go with a bold head but it's unusual to see a woman with one. A woman with great facial features can pull off a shaved head but when it comes to facial hair, if I don't have a mustache my girl certainly can't have one. Not sexy.

I don't see what the big deal is. Waxing the upper lip takes like 5 minutes and it only adds 5 dollars to your manicure and hot stone massage. So why not just get it done, I mean you're there already anyway. You could also probably have it done at the salon, while the color sets. It strikes me as a relatively small part of the overall burden.

But the issue of knowing you need it done in the first place is kind of tricky. I have a new barber. One thing I always say to a new barber is, "give me your honest opinion, I'm going to have to shave the head eventually. Please let me know when it is time to go gracefully." I wouldn't want to place close friends and my wife in the awkward position of having to tell me.

Due to my genetics I am one of the lucky 'stache girls.

Groom or grow? Depends on where I am in life. I admit to letting it be during times I needed and wanted to be left alone/off the market/quiet solitude.

Ready to go back out and meat n greet? Waxxxxxx me baybeee.

Thinking that a guy should find me attractive with that on my face? I aint that stupid or self-centered.

I only have a smattering of dark hair on the upper lip, you would have to be extremely up close and personal to see them. But man I make sure that I get threaded every three weeks.

I have dated "hippie" girls who don't shave their legs or armpits, even though that was not my preference because the rest of the package -- beauty, brains, heart -- was totally worth it.

But a woman with a mustache? No freakin' way!
Why? Because I wouldn't approach her in the first place. Therefore, she'd never get the chance to show her wonderful qualities.

Why? Because something goes off in my brain that says "MAN!" Being a man myself, I have nothing against men; I'm just not attracted to them.

And if she hasn't removed the hair by this stage of her adult life, it means she has no clue as to what's attractive to most men (so who knows what other obvious things she's clueless about?) or doesn't care, in which case, why should I care about her?

This is classic sexual selection at work. Most women don't have obvious facial hair because those who do have fewer chances of mating. Our species spoke a long time ago on this issue. Crying foul is of no use.

We may be seeing the early stages of an evolution that may split humans into two species, in about 50,000 generations.

One species will be hairless, adapted to a globally warmed environment. The other will be hairy, adapted to the next ice age.

There are many variations and adaptations in Humans, like skin color. But, this hairy business seems to have the power to affect mating, and so has the power to produce a new species, unless cosmetic technology can advance and prevent this calamity.

(smile)

natural seection, let me clarify that - NATURES version of natural selection has flown the cop in regards to human eveoluton.
Why farmed and domesticaed animals, began using tools all of which removes the need for major streangth seen in animals smaller than us.

Ans as Andrew jut poined out with modern cosmetc technology people can chnge their appearnce in th most mundane and profoud of ways causing our impulses to be used against us rather than for us

Totally 100% comfortable with a woman with a lil facial hair...seriously could care less. if im attracted to her im attracted to her. anit nothign wrong with a lil hair folks. its natural.

I just love when people make stuff up to drive their agendas.

I'd like to see pictures of these women. They shouldn't mind having their picture taken, I mean them being so confident and all.

Then I'd like to see the guys they are dating.

That will never happen.

Some years ago, we drove to Chicago to visit my wife's cousin, who as an engineer got papers. In his house was a very pretty young woman with long hair on her legs. I mean like an inch or an inch and a half. I have been faithful to my wife for all 35 years, but when I saw those legs, I wanted her!!!! I had never seen that before, and it was so sexy I can't even describe what it did to my hormone level.

And, as pretty as she was, I'm not sure a mustache would have made a difference.

I am one who votes if her personality is good enough, I wouldn't care. I saw too many divorces where men married for appearance without thought of personality or quality.

But, the only woman I knew who had a detectable mustache was ugly with or without it.

And this just in, from SteamingPile.com:

"My girlfriends with facial hair have no problem getting dates, and that is because they are confident and beautiful women."

You are right on, Amy!

I shaved mines off with a tree trimmer.

:)

If she wears her mustache in the "Hitler-style" and whips me with a riding crop while forcing me to bark like a dog, I'm there, baby.

Otherwise, no mustaches, thank you...

Amy is bang on. No thank you to women with mustaches. Do something to remove it. Preferably permanently.

Some women just don't get it. Evolution. Deal with it.

Ok it's normal for a guy to be turned off by a female mustache and pit hair. What really is perplexing to me is the last 25-year trend that women are turned off by men's body hair. That is not normal.

Amy - I'm not talking about "bear-men", but young women these days are appalled that a man would have ANY body hair. That's the latest development.

I think your polls should be divided into age groups, and look at pre- and post-menopausal women and their potential partners. (I.e., men who can no longer get pre-menopausal women to put out for them.)
Seems to me that facial hair is a common side effect of lowering levels of estrogen, and it may be correlated with increased levels of testosterone. Women I've known who have taken testosterone to increase their libidos have also had a noticable increase in facial hair.
So, IF facial hair correlates to dominance of testosterone, and IF that correlates with increased libido, isn't it possible that some women's facial hair might correlate with a noticable change in pheromones or other non-visual signals that a woman is probably receptive? AND to paraphrase the Advice Goddess herself, men evolved to want sex every three minutes, so MAYBE they also evolved a detection system for availability that might sometimes override the visual cues. After all, the hair probably isn't obvious in the dark or while in VERY close proximity. Admittedly this isn't explained in terms of more offspring and keeping the genes in circulation, but it might be worth brainstorming for correlaries.

I've spent my entire adult life "taking care of" my would-be-noticeable mustache, and as I age there are more chin whiskers to deal with, too. I have a medium-fair complexion and very dark hair, so it's quite noticeable if left untreated.

I had one boyfriend who noticed the complete lack of "peach fuzz" on my lip, so I had to explain to him that I remove it all, since even the non-dark hairs tend to be wiry and noticeable to the touch.

I don't like looking like a man, and having a noticeable mustache makes me feel masculine. If my boyfriend had a mustache fetish, I STILL wouldn't let it grow--I don't like it myself, and I don't think I could adapt to it just for a partner's preference.

I fully expect to have to keep up with it even more as I age and my hormones change. I don't think being in a committed relationship should mean you could give up on your grooming. I wouldn't want to be with a partner who thought he could just quit caring about how he looks, and I wouldn't do that to him, either.

May sexual selection act upon these hideous beasts' genes so as to permanently remove them from the next generation.

And I ain't saying that because they have hair between their lip and nose. No. It's because any woman thinking like this surely displays something wrong between the ears.

The angry feminist yells.

Darwin laughs.

Ugly. It's bad on the outside. It's doubly bad when it's also inside.

*shivers*

I realize I will seem like a terrible bigot for saying this, but I can tell you, as a man, I would never date a woman with a moustache.

"There's body hair and then there's Sasquatch/needing the attachment to vacuum him off because the pile is too thick for the upright."

"I think your polls should be divided into age groups, and look at pre- and post-menopausal women and their potential partners. (I.e., men who can no longer get pre-menopausal women to put out for them.)" !!!!!

The above quotes are part of the reason I love this column!

I dated an ultimate fighter who shaved his entire body, head included. It was great.

So, IF facial hair correlates to dominance of testosterone, and IF that correlates with increased libido, isn't it possible that some women's facial hair might correlate with a noticable change in pheromones or other non-visual signals that a woman is probably receptive? AND to paraphrase the Advice Goddess herself, men evolved to want sex every three minutes, so MAYBE they also evolved a detection system for availability that might sometimes override the visual cues.

Men evolved to go for healthy candidates for passing on their genes, not for receptive women.

@Amy
You said feminists would make preposterous claims, and I thought, not my feminist friends. They're a little misguided, but not ridiculously so. Behold the discussion on Facebook, in which my male and female feminist friends proved me wrong:

Beth:
@Lisa I have high testosterone, with all that entails. I'm aggressive, I have a high sex drive, and I am more logical than emotional. I like thinking like a man. I don't want to look like one. Thus the plucking, waxing, bleaching, shaving, etc. Whatever I have to do.

Michelle:
Beth, after considering what you have just said to Lisa, we can still be friends. But the feminist in me is breaking up with you. :P
...the feminist in me is dying to move away from dualistic constructions, especially as they apply to gender. As I sort of can't run from postmodern efforts (we are all attached through cultural evolution), I embrace a thinking to understand a gender, not as "this OR that", but as "this or that AND that". And, in application you no longer can simply categorize something like logic. or emotion. or sex drive.

Coincidentally, I recently started hashing out my own gender theory, crudely stated: an individual has 2 genders; the natural gender in which they are born with and the gender we choose to be. And as I am sure you can guess, I am stuck because I have played into a duality of my own.

Sancho:
it's strange to me, i mean i know it shouldn't be, that we're still in a place where it isn't weird as hell to ask "would you associate with someone who doesn't subscribe--either by choice or by nature--to the homogeneous lockstep of a media-produced standards of identity?"

It really depends on the nature of the mustache in question. A little fuzz is no big deal, but if she looks like Rollie Fingers I am not interested.

I went on your Facebook page, Beth (and thanks for posting that) and was just stunned by that stuff!

Women with facial hair? GROSS!!!!!!!

I have dated dark haired women who had a wisp-o-mustachio...no biggie. Alot of Italian women and latino women have one. If it is really obvious it should be plucked. But, I like the hippie look and the free spirit that comes with the no-shaven legs type...much better than the americanized immaculately shaved, tweezed, waxed, and fake high maintenance type.

Since I'm old school, I always notice hairy arms on women as well...its always a good indicator of good things to come.

"would you associate with someone who doesn't subscribe--either by choice or by nature--to the homogeneous lockstep of a media-produced standards of identity?"

I'm pretty sure facial hair was not the in thing for women long before "the media" existed.

yikes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3IOmQd7pc