I found at times generalizations are true. The times I have been in a book store you want to know who is talking loud and ruining the atmosphere WOMEN and more often Black Women. I go to the bar and who is the one most likely to start a fight men and young ones at that. Who is most likely to be noisy on the bus - foreigners (white people for me) True their will be outliers and every person can be rude but at times. Now maybe for Momof4 everytime she has to move her 4wd baby carriage it has been for a fat person.

Give me a situation I can generally tell you what group it will be!

Calling someone fat is rude because being fat is a flaw in our culture. And pointing out people's flaws is rude. Calling someone ugly is rude, even if they are. Calling someone stupid is rude, even if they are. etc.

'Calling someone fat is rude'

momof4 didn't call a specific person fat, even. She said that groups of walkers, blocked her stroller and they were usually fat. She was describing the people who block her way. Nowhere does she say that she called them fat.

Yes, I realized that after I posted and came back to fix it but you beat me to it!

Momof4 wasn't being rude. Obviously this needs to be taken in the context that she was posting a rant and being descriptive and the people weren't going to read it.

I'm just saying calling people fat (or any other undesirable trait) is rude. Not that Momof4 was. Sorry about that!

I said they were fat because 1) they always are (americans are overwhelmingly fat) and 2) fat people take up more sidewalk space, and yet never seem to acknowledge that fact or move. You eat a lot, you're going to be fat. Deal with it or eat less.

Now, if I was walking down the sidewalk saying "hey fatty, out of the way", that would be rude.

When I was expecting my second daughter, my nurse (a large woman)who performed my intake assessmentwas going over weight gain from my first pregnancy, and how I had progressed thus far in my second. She said "I hate skinny bitches like you". Apparently, this was protected speech, since she was fat. Kind of like reverse racism being okay.

Oh, and the pendulum has swung: according to this Brit, we should call them fat, not obese:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298394/Call-overweight-people-fat-instead-obese-says-health-minister.html

Juliana, isn't this just a crude but trendy way that women compliment each other or express envy nowadays?

"You have such gorgeous hair. I hate you!"

"She has the longest legs. I hate her!"

The wink is implied. The "hate" refers to female jealousy and indicates that the quality in question is enviable.

I wouldn't take this as an insult.

Let me ask a question: is Momof4 talking about two people walking side by side on a sidewalk? Of course that takes up the whole sidewalk, and it is extremely rude if one of the people does not move over to let someone pass. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference if the people are fat or skinny - two skinny people can take up a whole sidewalk if they are spread out enough. And by the way, I do not think it is rude to describe people as fat if you are talking about general strangers and not individuals.

Doing it on a blog, not rude.

But I do think any time you look at a person and throw out a single word to describe them, it's bordering on rude. Simply because I think it's rude to boil a human being down to one lonely adjective: black, white, fat, skinny, short...whatever. It just debases a person, in my opinion. Something bothers me when I hear a person say "Oh, Donna? She's fat." Like that's all that person is.

The flip side, of course, is that if you ARE fat, you'd better get over being referred to as fat. Or stop shoveling food down your throat. Believe me, this is an issue I struggle with every damn day. I love food. Love LOVE food. Like, I could eat 15 meals a day. But I don't, and it's a daily battle to stay in the size 8 jeans. I'd love nothing more than to supersize everything, but I choose not to. And folks, it IS a choice. Over the weekend I took my kids to see a movie, and in the theater was a family of four, like ours, and they were all five times our size. The daughter, who looked to be about 10, had to have outweighed me by a good 50 pounds. And on her lap? An order of nachos covered in cheese and a large Slurpee. I wanted to beat her parents over the head with my purse. What the HELL are they thinking?!

Juliana, isn't this just a crude but trendy way that women compliment each other or express envy nowadays?

Maybe if it was spoken by a friend or someone closer to you, but an intake nurse? If it was meant as a tongue in cheek compliment, it was way too familiar. Not everyone talks like this.

Also, since when is expressing envy something acceptable? People forget that there's a resentful quality to envy that, in this case, says "I wish you were fat and I was skinny."

I find that comment from the nurse just plain wrong and out of place. Her intentions don't matter; it's the result that counts.

I don't think it was rude because she was merely describing a situation and the weight of the people is relevant. If it was two skinny people on the sidewalk she could probably squeeze through. It's not as if she was saying, "I hate going to the store because there's always fat people there!" Even that wouldn't be rude because it's an opinion and this is a blog.

But I do think any time you look at a person and throw out a single word to describe them, it's bordering on rude. Simply because I think it's rude to boil a human being down to one lonely adjective: black, white, fat, skinny, short...whatever. It just debases a person, in my opinion.

Really?

If you call me "redhead," am I debased or merely described?

If I tell you about my friend Richard, I'm not going to tell you he's a black guy, which he is, anymore than I'm going to tell you that my friend Kate is a white person, which she is.

But, if there's a stranger across the street, there appearance is what you see. You don't know if they go to church or they're an atheist or whether they're a poet or work in a grocery store. What's wrong with describing a person the way you'd describe, say, "that brown horse."

People aren't fat because they over eat. Amy knows this, that's why she's citing Taubes.

Why do people chose screen names that cite their offspring?

And skinny people are just as rude as fat people, but its not as much fun to point that out.

I chose my screenname because being a mom of little kids colors my view of most everything, and I thought that might be informative to let people know where I am coming from on my views. Also, I am the only person who comes up on google with my name, so I generally don't use it in public forums where there can be psychos. Amy knows my name, that's enough for her blog.

Had I noticed a problem with skinny people rolling-roadblocking sidewalks, I assure you I would point that out too.

And people ARE fat because they overeat. You can get fat on too much protein/fat, you can get fat on whole grains, you can get fat on veggies. More calories in than out = fat. Yes, there are things you can eat that make you hungry again sooner, or much later, but it's still a matter of amount. Taubes does not say you can eat as much as you want of protein. Bears get fat on it and you can too.

"Maybe if it was spoken by a friend or someone closer to you, but an intake nurse? If it was meant as a tongue in cheek compliment, it was way too familiar. Not everyone talks like this."

I agree with you completely. In the US there seems to be a complete blurring of limits between on/off the job behavior. Professionals should act as professionals on the job, no matter how much they love to goof around off the job. They can have a part time job as a comedian after hours :-D, I don't care, act like a nurse, or a bank teller, or an accountant when you're doing that job. I don't go to the hospital or the bank to be entertained, or to make a new best friend.

Pointing a finger at someone and saying to their face that they're fat is rude.

Saying, "Hey, fattie, move out of the way! You're blocking the whole sidewalk" is rude.

Acknowledging to yourself, to a friend, to a stranger, on a blog and even to the fat person if he or she asks, "Am I fat?" THE TRUTH is never rude. If a person is fat, he or she is fat. Spin it however you want but being overweight means you're overweight. period. If he/she's going to take offense at that, then change that situation.

But don't get pissed at people who name the truth.

Momof4, you have my admiration for being a crossing guard. My best friend is a crossing guard too and goes through very similar things. The parents always in a rush to get to their Zumba or yoga class barreling through the intersection despite her standing in the middle with a stop sign trying to cross kids. They honk their horns at her, call her names, and ignore her directions. Its an accident waiting to happen. Thankfully the local precinct sends a cop over sporadically to write tickets to those who refuse to heed her direction. I'd like to know where anyone has to go that is so important that its worth running someone over!! The crossing guards are there to keep our kids safe. Try showing them some courtesy.

Indeed, I cannot imagine being rude to crossing guards. WTF?

Also, using euphemisms for "fat" (or anything else) doesn't change what it is. I've had fat people tell me I'm too skinny and I just turn it around and say, "why do you feel it's OK to say that to me? How would you feel if I said, unbidden, 'you're too fat?'" That shuts them up.

The fat point is moot for me. In my experience propriety/respect/consideration has just gone down hill in the last 10+ years. Just notice how many folks don't let people get off an elevator before they try to get on.

The ones who usually don't move for me on sidewalks etc. are not fat people but generally gaggles of women (often teens/20s) walking abreast who think I as a man should move aside for them.

Momof4's crosswalk story doesn't surprise me but it does amuse me given all the helicopter parents who whinge about protecting their kids from everything. Oregon a few years back made it a law that in all school zones/marked crosswalks cars had to go 20mph all the time, no matter if school was in session that day or it was in the summer. That lasted about 2 years IIRC before being repealed.

I should add that this was back in the day when I was a bit on the skinny side and was a bit self-conscious about it. I ate like a hog and didn't gain weight. I wasn't horribly skinny (5'5", 115lbs or so), but I could have used a few extra pounds, which I now have and no one bothers me about being "emaciated" (someone said that too, out of nowhere) any more.

Hey I watched the video about Sugar: the bitter truth. I thought it was very good and informative but I didn't understand what exactly is bad to eat and what isn't? Can you eat fruit or not? Is granulated sugar ok or not? I was so confused about that. I understand HFCS is bad, but now I'm confused about other stuff. Like raisins, I eat a lot of raisins are those bad too? And apples, that is one of my fav foods are those bad too? What about carrots and sweet potatoes? I eat a lot of those too. What about oranges or bananas? And bread, I make my own bread so there is no added sugar, but is that good or bad? I'm not obese, but I'm also not thin either and want to lose fat and find it so difficult.

I don't consider it rude. It is merely a description of said person. Just because someone doesn't like the description doesn't make it less true. If someone is fat, describe them as fat. Same with tall, short, skinny, redhead, tattooed, et cetera.

Slightly off topic, but momof4 should do what I do when confronted with a similar situation. Keep pushing on the sidewalk, just move over to the edge, not make the effort to actually move yourself completely off it. All that does is tell them they don't have to move and they remain relatively oblivious to the fact that someone wanted by and what they were doing was not acceptable. Just keep pushing down the sidewalk and they will be forced to move out of your way, as they should. I highly doubt they will stay where they are and crash right into your stroller, unless you have a different breed of asshole in your area.

You're right Sio. Now every school zone seemingly has different rules. Some of them you only have to slow down if yellow lights are flashing on the school zone sign. Others you have to slow down during the specified hours posted on the school zone sign. If the school zone doesn't have flashing lights or specified times for the slow speed, you must slow down all the time 24/7.

Two-thirds of those in the USA are overweight, and half of those are obese, not just fat. Statistically one needn't even mention the sidewalk hogs as being lardos, as it's 2-1 they are. Hell, I only weigh 125lbs and am 5'11", so when I am confronted by sidewalk hogs I have to stand and brace myself or I'll be bowled over by the swine.

One doesn't get beefy, big, blimp, bovine, brawny, broad, bulging, bulky, bull, burly, butterball, chunky, corpulent, distended, dumpy, elephantine, fleshy, gargantuan, gross, heavy, heavyset, hefty, husky, inflated, jelly-belly, lard, large, meaty, obese, oversize, paunchy, plump, plumpish, ponderous, porcine, portly, potbellied, pudgy, roly-poly, rotund, solid, stout, swollen, thickset, weighty, or whalelike from osmosis, but rather keeping their big mouths open instead of shut.

Amy:

"I'm always amazed at drivers who behave like that, Kristen. There's a person whose job it is to get the kids safely across the street to school. Pretty damn important."

I had that job once. I was in the fifth grade.

It's a different world now, that's for sure.

/

"The fat point is moot for me. In my experience propriety/respect/consideration has just gone down hill in the last 10+ years. Just notice how many folks don't let people get off an elevator before they try to get on"
The elevator rudeness is quite disturbing as is that fact that most people don't know that you walk on the right side in this country going up and down any kind of stair case and you pass on the left if you are going faster than the other people. One of the things that I hate about elevator manners is that not only are most people inconsiderate getting on, the people getting off are just as rude with them all assuming that someone else will keep the door from closing on the people getting on so they shuffle off slowly and let the door close behind them and they are using blocking the opening enough so I can't get my hand in the door to keep it from automatically leaving (without standing by the elevator with my finger on the button.) (this can be problematic if there is a bank of elevators because you can end up stopping them all rather than the one you are trying to board.) The easy way is for someone, anyone, inside to keep their hand in the door which I usually do when I am still on the elevator and riding to another floor.

"Her intentions don't matter; it's the result that counts."

Thag, you're not too far off the mark. The rest of the story goes along the lines of TMI but what the hell. The remainder of the assessment included an examination and she was less than gentle. I ended up bleeding for three days. I had to come back for an ultrasound to make sure I wasn't losing my baby, plus a Rhogam injection since I'm Rh negative. Once the doctor put two and two together, the nurse was no longer employed. I would like to check the status of her licensure these days....

How awful Juliana! Reminds me of my experience with the advice nurse at my OB office, who also happens to do scheduling. When I found out I was pregnant last I called to set up care and stressed that I needed to be seen right away due to having Antiphospholipid Syndrome and needing to be started on Lovenox injections by 5 weeks to prevent blood clots and miscarriage (APS is an autoimmune clotting disorder). The nurse told me it was "no big deal" and I could wait until my appointment at 6 weeks because I was overreacting. Clearly not the right way to talk to a woman who has had 5 miscarriages (now 6) in the 5th week due to the disorder. By the time I went in for my appointment nearly two weeks after calling, they found out on ultrasound my baby had already died and I was in process of miscarrying again. I told my doctor exactly what happened with the nurse and scheduling and I now have a standing prescription so I can just go pick up my Lovenox when I confirm pregnancy. I have no idea if the nurse still works there, but she shouldn't be!

As long as momof4 doesn't mind me referring to her wee little stroller as a sidewalk barge then we should be fine. When my son was a baby I carried him in a baby backpack bc I think strollers are ridiculous. Diaper in my purse and we were out the door, no fuss no muss! I had the sexiest arm/back muscles as a result. Let's kill two birds with one stone people, put the strollers and the big macs away, and share the sidewalk already. Your sexy arms will thank you!

also @momof4-- you don't have to move out of the way. Just keep walking and make them share. What are they going to do collide with you bc the fat on their face is blocking their eye holes? I don't think so. Saying you are being forced out of the way is admitting that you can't stand your ground. If you get close and they still don't move, just stop. Unless the laws of physics have changed, they will have to go around you. Or... you could just keep hoisting your barge up onto the grass, your choice.

Gspotted, I believe Momof4 has twins and I don't know how you get two or more kids into one of those baby backpacks. If I had twins, I would have a stroller too. There is nothing wrong with strollers and it is a heck of a lot better than parents letting their small children walk around a store pushing grocery carts into people's ankles.

My friend had a baby recently and acquired a total of three strollers. All of them were brand new. Can you say carbon footprint? I recently overheard a conversation in the teacher's lounge about the price of a stroller $(400) and it made my want to gag. I am just glad I had the sense not to over consume when my son was small. Everything you see is future trash, EVERYTHING! Even you, so come to terms with that.

"I started working as a crossing guard at the kids school last week. WOW. Parents honking at me when I stop them to let kids cross.":

Sad story but several years ago I had a relative (he was in elementary) run over by a driver while he was getting off of school and waiting for his mom.

Momof4, though, why don't you just smile and say "Excuse me" and ask them to step aside. Wouldn't that be easier than yanking the stroller around? That's what I would do.

"Saying you are being forced out of the way is admitting that you can't stand your ground."

I try not to respond to rude with rude. Also, you tell me how one handles 4 kids under 4 with no sidewalk barge (now, it's 4 under 7, but still, there was a crazy while there)

Bunnygirl, I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits, but I would have sued for that. Her actions directly led to the death of your baby. That's malpractice, even for a nurse. And the clinic that employs her.

$400 for a stroller is nothing. Try the $900 a couple of friends of mine have shoveled out for their top of the line Bugaboos. Blech.

Amy - I very much agree with you that one word adjectives are not all bad. I didn't articulate myself very well there. If you're describing someone to me and say "You know...the tall guy?", I get it. But it bothers me when that one adjective gets emphasized and makes the person being described seem so one dimensional. It's actually more of a tone of voice thing, I guess...

"Jane? You know Jane? The BLONDE one?"
"Joe, the STUPID one?"

We all do this, and it isn't at all always a bad thing. Just something about the way it's said in certain situations bothers me, as it's usually being said by someone who doesn't really know that person at all, but has managed to sum them up in one word.

Calling people fat to their face, whether true or not, is rude. Calling unidentified people fat on a blog is not, since no one in particular is being insulted.

I was taught not to comment on people's appearance beyond "you look great!" Just because something is true doesn't mean we get a pass to blurt it out whenever the moment strikes. It's not OK to say, "Wow, your skin is looking leathery today. Hit the tanning booth too hard?"

People can go overboard on the fat hate. Yes, people who are fat are overwhelmingly responsible for their own condition. But that's true for lots of things.

Strollers are a godsend. Why criticize strollers? The blame is on the rudeness of the people who can't share a sidewalk.

I agree these fancy strollers for $400 are ridiculous, especially since I found that I almost never used my "fancy" stroller that I was given at the baby shower. The umbrella ones that collapse easily and pop right up again when you need them are the best...and the cheapest. They don't take up much room on a sidewalk or an aisle either. If anyone knows someone who is expecting, get them one of those and tell them to ditch the idea of the $400 one.

Bunnygirl- Damn....that must have been frustrating and agonizing.

Momof4 has a point; further action needs to be taken, but not for financial reasons. Even though your doctor was made aware, you could confirm whether that nurse is still there or not. If she is, she'll likely continue to make these off-the-cuff judgments and keep patients from their doctor; she may enjoy being the gatekeeper. Injury will eventually result again. Who knows? You could have been one of the "again"'s. What she did was make a medical judgment, not a nursing judgment. She's not allowed to practice medicine, she's supposed to practice nursing. Based on what she did (making a medical judgment and dispensing advice), she should lose her license. Please consider doing the other mom's-to-be a favor. There is a license registry for this very reason.

@momof4 What's so rude about stopping the barge and letting someone walk around you?

And btw...

No one told you to have four kids under the age of four, that was your choice and one that I see as irresponsible. Having so many makes sense if they are needed to work the corn fields, but I doubt they are hopping out of the eddie bauer deluxe cruiser to enjoy an afternoon of milking cows and what not. Face it, you're selfish and that's why you throw derogatory comments around about people who over indulge. They remind you of yourself.

That's awfully harsh, G-spotted. Momof4 is a responsible mother, who can afford her children -she's not on public assistence, and has detailed how she has insurance and made all the proper long-term planning for her children's welfare - so if she and her husband decide they want 4 kids, that's their choice. I don't see where you have the right to judge her choices when they're not affecting you. We actually need more responsible parents like her, who can raise smart, considerate citizens. If not, we're all in trouble for the future. Many problems exist now because we have idiots raising children they can't afford with no accountability or values. That's selfish.

Plus opting out of childrearing altogether is no less selfish. It could certainly be argued that those who do don't care to do their part to insure a quality next generation. They only care about themselves and their lives right now, which is fine, but it's not anything to be arrogant about.

Gspotted, do you comment at babble, too? That's the only other place I've seen such a tirade against strollers and the owners thereof (especially those of us who have the audacity to have soooo many).

For the record, I like baby backpacks and slings just fine. I used to take the bus a lot and would carry one twin in a sling and use an umbrella stroller for the other, as soon as they were big enough for that. But sometimes, like when you dare to have twins, or when it's especially hot out, or when the baby or mom just doesn't care for the damn backpack you need to use a stroller. Even a double or triple stroller (as long as it's front-and-back, not side-to-side) doesn't take up as much sidewalk space as two adults walking abreast, and it's a lot easier for an adult---even the sainted ones with a diaper in her purse and a baby tied to her back---to move than for the "baby barge" to stop.

But, anyway, read momof4's actual comment...the gist of it is "it's rude to cause anyone to step off the sidewalk because you insist on walking abreast with your friend/spouse/whatever, though it's especially frustrating when pushing a stroller" NOT "It's rude to not move out of the way of my stroller".

@lovelysoul- I am one of those "irresponsible" ones who had my son when I was eighteen (knocked up at seventeen) and have gotten all kinds of flack for it, so I hear you (load) and clear. I have never been on public assistance and have worked my ass off to support my son and I didn't have to consume a ridiculous amount of brightly colored plastic to do so. If you are just one of those bourgeois idiots who want to blame the poor then go for it, but guess what? The poor don't have the kind of money that it takes to truly f**k up this world. We'll leave all that to the self righteously entitled rich who can't possibly be idiots. Right? They're the chosen ones, right? They'll take good care of their kids while the rest of us lowlifes will squander our money on crack that we shoot up in front of our little starved rug rats. "Oh gee snookums, sorry you'll never be a smart, considerate citizen that consumes endless amounts of future trash. Now pass mommy the crack pipe." Her choices effect all of us, all of our choices do. I'm not suggesting she snuff them out bc of the ridiculous amount of trash they will inevitably create. I, of all people, know that there are no take backs. I'm just trying to keep it real. I mean, why have more than two? I stopped at one bc I wanted to focus on my education and received scholarships and awards for my academic proficiency. Now I teach children with special needs and give back to society, I'm not perfect...but at least I'm aware. I have every right to judge her, that's what blogs are for! And you get to judge me, that's how it works. It's called discourse.

Gspotted, you're an idiot, who probably can't find her gspot and is therefor a perma-birch, and I'm tired of attempting to be civil to you. The 2 kids I have old enough to be in school have tested gifted. We can afford to feed, cloth, and yes stroller them! I'd say I'm JUST the sort of person who needs to have lots of kids, while many others (you, perhaps?) should have none.

Nor do fat people remind me of myself. I have a normal BMI. And I've had 4 kids. Fat people need to learn to put down the damn fork or get used to being mocked. Period. Are you listening, gspot? Put. Down. The. Fork.

Gspotted, I should have read farther. First off, it's LOUD, not load. You're a teacher, with "academic awards"? Scary. I would imagine my family of 6 has a smaller carbon and trash footprint than you. We clothe diaper, buy most things used or get hand-me-downs (yep, keeping shit out of landfills, that's me) and eat at home for every meal. We also keep our AC and heat off most days (okay, except July and August, which in Austin are unbearable), have an energy-star rated highly efficient "green" house, drive super-gas-efficient cars, use 100% green energy from green Mountain....I could go on. Of course, I do these things because it saves me money. Not because I particularly care about being "green" as a statement.

I didn't have to have fewer kids to concentrate on my education, bitch, because I got my degree FIRST. Then got married. THEN had kids. You know, the way you're supposed to? Of course, maybe I could have been selfish and had irresponsible sex when I was too young to handle the outcomes....sure, that would have been better! Yup yup yup!

Gspotted, that's not discourse, that's an awful lot of anger. All I meant was that momof4 wasn't on welfare. That hardly means she's rich.

Obviously, you're on some anti-plastic, save the world from trash, kick. I'm sure you and your son never use any plastic products or leave any cosmic footprint, but not all of us are so radical.

And the poor, who are breeding like rabbits and expecting all the rest of us to pay for it, ARE able to fuck up the world, as well as their own lives. It's misguided to solely blame the rich who pay for it all with their tax dollars, innovations, and hard work.

Momof4 is a middle-class married woman, who pays her taxes, volunteers in the community and at her children's school, and has a supportive husband who is a good provider. The fact she owns a plastic stroller hardly makes her the world's worst consumer. You have no way of knowing whether she's growing an organic garden and feeding the homeless out of her back yard. I just don't understand your venom towards her. She is who we want to have kids, because if you want your social security and health benefits provided in your old age, then somebody better be raising productive, stable citizens. As far as I can see, she's contributing at least 4, and that's a good thing.

Gah, Gspotted makes much more sense, now. I had her pegged as one of the militant extended-breastfeeding-baby-wearing-co-sleeping-if-don't-do-what-I-did-you're-screwing-up-your-kids parents who usually rail against strollers and formula and the like...and usually also point out how toned they are and how ridiculously easy they find it all. Turns out she's just an envious, hate-the-rich (rich meaning responsible people) eco-nazi.

BTW, Gspotted, the poor can't afford to fuck things up? Would somebody please tell India that?

@momof4: I used the word load on purpose to imply that what was coming out of lovelysoul's mind was a load of garbage, hence the parentheses.

"I got my degree FIRST. Then got married. THEN had kids. You know, the way you're supposed to?"

Um, supposed to? Gee, I hope I can be a robot like you some day! It seems I've gone about things all wrong. Thanks for clearing that up, goody two shoes.

Oh, and sorry you couldn't pull your head out of the diaper genie long enough to understand the analogy:Fat people over indulge, that's why I suggest that they remind you of yourself bc you have done just that with your huge family. Put. the. sperm. down.

@Jenny: Yes you nailed it! I'm envious of a woman who can't spell therefore and doesn't have enough guts to hold her own on the side walk. You've got me "pegged" now. lol!

Okay guys this has been fun for me, thanks! I only have two more days of summer left and you just made one of them super entertaining!

I'm going to hell for this, but I can't stop laughing.

Nobody was judging your choices, Gspotted...at least before you started arrogantly putting momof4 down. I, for one, commend you for concentrating on your education, not taking assistance, and making a good life for yourself after an unplanned pregnancy.

But Eco-nazi is a good word. Sometimes, people can become overzealous in their philosophical beliefs, and I think you've crossed that line when you start attacking women for having more children than you and blame them for ruining the environment when you don't even know them or how they live. In my experience, green terrorists are just as intolerant and hypocritical as religious nuts who try to shove their beliefs down other people's throats. Don't be an eco-nazi.

"I didn't have to have fewer kids to concentrate on my education, bitch, because I got my degree FIRST." Which you use to the fullest extent as a crossing guard. They test on the gifted level? So do most sociopaths and serial killers. Being gifted doesn't mean you will be a boon to society or that you are in fact gifted. No I don't hate any group I just can't stand this particular self righteous bigot.

The whole strollers on the side walk. That's a function of where you live. So judging her reaction would require knowing her local side walks and the level of the fatties. Given that she's in the south the fatty factor may be really bad. There's a certain level of fatty that you only see in certain areas of the country. They exist everywhere but up north the typically hide.

"eco-nazi" that's some great rhetoric.

Let's all just laugh instead of living intentionally...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM

Enjoy!

"Would it also be rude if she said 'and they're ALWAYS SKINNY'?"

Yep. It would be.

Which ones look like the nazis in this vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiRjwpCrCMc

"bc you have done just that with your huge family." While the bile rise in my throat I'm going to have to disagree. Given where she's from that's not a huge family, and she is supporting them without federal assistance. Huge families in that area is 7+.

Not sure having x number of kids makes you more or less guilty of pollution. The number of people in earth is increasing, and will continue till we exceed capacity. It's more a function of how you use resources. 4 moms with one kids each will use up more resources than 1 mom with 4 kids. Given that she's not (from all her comments) an extravagant spender she's probably creating less waste than say an upper middle class mom with 2 kids.

Yes I know I'm being rude just don't care.

I should definitely look into doing something about that nurse and whether or not she's still employed there. It's one thing to miscarry from my condition, but quite another when someone doesn't let you receive the necessary care to try to prevent it.

I have nothing against strollers, even expensive ones, even if I'd choose not to buy some of those really high end strollers (I think most of them are ugly and strange in their styling). I'm personally a fan of Bumbleride strollers, which are a bit more pricey than some, but less than a lot of others, so more of a "mid-range" stroller. I also like baby carriers and have one. Depending on the situation, one or the other is more appropriate but neither is perfect for all situations. I'm also a huge fan of cloth diapering (heck, I make and sell them). I intend to make my own baby foods from scratch as I really like to cook and do this for most of our meals already so not much of a stretch to grind up some of our meal for baby. I intend to breastfeed if my body allows. I haven't given much thought to whether or not I'd use a lot of secondhand items or not, but sometimes it's not a good idea, like in terms of car seats because the plastics break down and become brittle over time.

I don't go out of my way to be the "most green" I can be, but I do my part where I can and where I choose too. I have a bit of a gas guzzling sports car, so definitely not green there, but I do at least combine errands into one trip instead of multiple trips everyday. I have energy efficient appliances and try to conserve on how much electricity I do use. I buy very few prepackaged processed foods, which cuts down on trash consumption. Everything is an individual choice and shouldn't be looked down upon because someone has a different opinion. Some people also want to have a lot of children (I'd like 5 if I can be so fortunate) and if they can afford them all, good for them! I don't think it's greedy or selfish to have a lot of children so long as you support them yourself.

I don't know why people consider "selfish" a bad thing. Momof4 has 4 kids because she wants them, and that's selfish. Childfree people have no kids because they don't want them, and that's selfish, too. Not many of us make decisions based on the good of the universe. We do things because we want to do them and justify the decision as the "best" one later. Which is fine by me as long as I'm not paying the grocery bill.

Living in an environmentally-sensitive area, I know a lot about these eco-nazis. They don't know their ass from their elbows half the time but are sure their ideas will save the planet, when, in fact, they usually make things worse.

We had the lowest rate of growth in the whole state until the eco-nazis came in and started seizing everyone's property rights, which resulted in a panic, which caused a housing and development boom. They're idiot do-gooders who don't understand or care how important property rights are to freedom and liberty, and the worst ones are just pure terrorists.

Many are outright hypocrites - little old ladies who raped the land and have their fine, energy-guzzling houses right on the water's edge but don't want anybody else to enjoy the same.

The Audubon Society tried to bribe us personally so THEY could make money on our moorings. When we said no, they tried to shut us down. They are totally corrupt and self-serving...no better than BP.

It's sad, but there are a lot of impressionable people like you who fall for their rhetoric and applaud the environmental terrorism, which is going to ruin this country.

Overindulging in sperm? Hardly, although I'm sure my DH wishes I would.

And since you apparently haven't learned this in your "academics", yes you are "supposed" to be married and educated prior to having kids. It's the best way to ensure they don't grow up to be poor crack-users mooching off the rest of us. You know, being responsible.

But you've made yourself clear: you blog-cruise looking to put people down, state how much better you are than them, and leave. Must suck to have such low self esteem. We regulars certainly put people down, but we have the courtesy to 1) have reason and 2) lurk a bit first.

if you actually are a teacher, you're a shining example of what's wrong with the profession and why we need accountability.

Oh, and you might want to invest in a dictionary, if you think clothe is misspelled.

Wouldn't want to miss out on an opportunity to teach you something--A Walk in the WoRds: Therefor vs Therefore
therefor: for or in return for that, for it - ex. I'll explain what we must do and the causes therefor.; therefore: consequently, hence, for that reason - ex. I don't have a key; therefore, I'll have to ring the bell. ... or maybe dictionary .com could change the example to -- I can't find my gspot, (therefore) I'm a bitch...
And you still don't understand the analogy, silly face. Maybe you can ask one of your gifted children to explain it to you.

And this person is a teacher....makes me shudder.

Yea it gives me the chills too. Especially when kids tell me "I love you Ms. Grace." and "You're my best friend." Means a lot bc most of them had such a profound speech delay when they first came in, not to mention being English language learners from low income homes, and disabled. You try doing my job sometime, it just might make you shudder for reals.

I love how an obvious hasty typing error like "therefor" earns us a treatise on grammar, but the teacher then turns around and uses "for reals".

@Jenny HAC: I wouldn't have bothered, but someone suggested that I invest in a dictionary. Someone needed to get schooled, for reals.

I think this is hysterical. I noticed that when I went to Raging Waters a couple of weeks ago with my son, there were SO many fat people. I recalled that when I went when I was much younger, there were basically no fat people. I remembered (as the "fat girl" being a whopping 10 pounds over weight back then) that I wanted to be thin like the other girls. Now even the young girls aren't particularly thin and have a roll over their itty bitty bikini.

All of that to say that I am the fat girl now, not just a few pounds overweight, but many, many pounds over weight. I went to a weight loss center today and there was a great question on there - Why do you want to lose weight? My answer - Because I'm fat and I'm tired of it.

Wow. Don't know how this got so ugly. I will say Momof4, you do seem to be able to dish it to fat people and (pardon the pun) seem a bit thin skinned yourself. What I find amazing about this thread is the thought that any of us as adults should be sitting around judging others for ANY of their choices... whether to have 4 kids or whether to be fat. You guys all claim to be libertarian but can be harsh about life choices that you don't agree with. And yes, this discussion has gotten rude.

Momof 4... what bothers me the most about you is this statement:

Fat people need to learn to put down the fork or get used to being mocked. Period.

Wow... that is just so ugly. Is that what you teach your kids? Just because you don't wear your emotional issues on your backside doesn't make you perfect. I workout in a womens gym and know lots of really nice ladies who are working on their issues and don't need someone like you judging them. The best spin instructor I have is a heavy girl who COMPLETED a half ironman in 8 hours. Is she somehow less than you? Can you do that? I'm guessing not bc you have trouble pushing a stroller. If you are going to be weak, you should be prepared to be mocked by those of us stronger than you. Pick. Up. The. Weights.

G-spotted: Feminist radar going off...

Forget it folks..you can't argue facts with a feminist, so don't even try.

Yeah, I'm sick of fat people too. Especially the ones with attitudes, as in "yeah, i'm fat, so get the hell out of my way." I'm tired of everyone making excuses for them: "She's just big-boned" or "He has a hormone problem." Sure. Three weeks ago I was in San Francisco for a week...guess what? No fat people except for all the overweight tourists trying to huff and puff their way up Lombard Street or up to the Tower.

Why? Why is there overweight people all over the place in St. Louis, Memphis, New Orleans???? And yet there are very few in Boulder (my town), San Francisco, or Seattle? I just don't get it. But we're ALL paying for it and its going to get worse with Mr. Obama's new health care plan. Yes, those women who will not get out of your strollers way will be raking it in.

Take accountability for your actions. If you are fat, forget the diets and all the treadmill BS, go straight for the gastric bypass and lose all the weight fast!

If those two women would not get out of my way when I had my stroller with my child, I would have stopped the stroller and refused to move until they went around.

Man this whole topic just burns me....momof4 you are right on!

@mike: I would hope your feminist radar is going off! I'm a woman after all! Since you like SF so much and appreciate all the hot bodies there, I thought I'd let you know I'll be in SF (with all of my fit femme counterparts) in about a month for the folsom street fair! Hope you can make it out! As for the gastric bypass, I have to disagree. There are far less intrusive ways to go about getting ones physique back. Have you seen those diagrams of what they do to the stomach-- it looks like a Magritte painting. C'est nes pas une gastric bypass. In addition, I must correct you on your final assertion-- Momof4 is not "right on!" Because, but not limited to, the fact that her monicker reads, at first glance, like MoFo, I can only assume that she is a pathetic female misogynist, or perhaps a closeted lesbian. This saddens me, but has been very entertaining at the same time. Oh, the playground of the internet... how I love thee!

BTW...

"If those two women would not get out of my way when I had my stroller with my child, I would have stopped the stroller and refused to move until they went around."

...is almost identical to the advice I originally offered up to MOFO. Why she didn't thank me, I'll never know. That's what got this whole hoopla started in the first place, if you can believe it! Or maybe it was my low self esteem. Yes, that must be it!

@sheepmommy - just because libretarians think you have the right to make your own decisions doent mean you get to have evreybodys adoring approval.

gspotted - welfare programs place a far larger burden on people who live on tens, or even hunndereds of thousands a year the on the rich

And as there are more people on wealfare then in mansions they have a larger voting block

"Especially when kids tell me "I love you Ms. Grace." and "You're my best friend." "

Super...so it's just adults you hate/mock?

This whole topic got ugly when the idiot 17 year old who could not use a condom decided to mock her betters. Which is exactly how trolls like her get their jollies. What school district is not yet in session, praytell, that you can be online all day? I've never heard of one that wasn't in by the day after Labor Day, myself, but sure you're a teacher.

Sheep, when you can double-hip 3 year old twins while 8 months pregnant, you can tell me to pick up the weights. Do you read? I didn't say I couldn't move it, I said I shouldn't have to. And yes, when you're fat, you take up more room. A fact fat people need to be aware of as they make their lifestyle choices.

Yes, I've gotten rude now. My original comment that sparked this thread was not.

Okay, I'm a little late to the party....so I'm going to go back to the original topic...sort of. When I was recovering from anorexia and struggling to put the weight back on, no one thought anything of calling me "skinny", telling me to "eat a cheeseburger", etc. At the time I worked with mostly overweight women. They kept the AC cranked so high that my finger tips would go numb. When I complained, I got: "Well, you should put some meat on your bones!" from MANAGERS. Do you think it would have been okay to tell a sweating fat lady to lose some weight rather than turn down the heat? No. I could care less if a stranger described me as skinny. It would have been an accurate description. However, my coworkers (some of who knew my situation) had no right. My personal favorite was when people would ask me: "Do you eat?" Bitch, how is that any of your business. How am I supposed to respond to that? Would it make these people feel better to hear I don't eat or that I eat whatever I want and still look like this? Anywho, I'm going off on a rant. My main point is in response to someone WAY back in the comments saying that being fat is a flaw and pointing out people's flaws is rude. I don't agree. For me, being "skinny" was a flaw, and people saw no problem pointing that out constantly. Some people like being fat. They don't see it as a flaw. Everyone needs to just get some thicker skin. Myself included.

And holy hell, what's with all the stroller hate?

Do you think it would have been okay to tell a sweating fat lady to lose some weight rather than turn down the heat?

This is why it's my policy not to comment on how people look. It's none of my business. It's not like a skinny chick is going to be all, "Oh, yeah! I should eat a sandwich! Why didn't I think of that!" Or that a fat woman is going to hear one more "Hey, fatass!" and think, "Wow, where did all this weight come from?" It's not my place to decide how thick a person's skin needs to be, and we'd all get along a lot better if we stopped verbalizing every observation that pops into our heads.

If someone's weight is a problem for me (for example, the fat person taking up half my seat on the airplane), then I'll complain. Otherwise, what's the point?

I think it's more acceptable to tell a skinny person to eat because our mothers told us that as kids, and it was especially common in the past when poor people worried more about their children's nutrition and whether they were getting enough food. So, it's viewed by many as more of a nuturing, motherly statement than insulting. I realize that it can be hurtful for a skinny person, as I am one, but I've come to the understanding that the people urging me to eat are usually not trying to be insulting. It's just like the old Italian or Jewish mama saying, "Eat, eat!"

My kids, too, are both very thin, just genetically, yet, when they were young, I'd have other moms and relatives say things like, "Don't you ever feed those kids?" No one would've probably said anything if they were fat, but expressing concern over their thinness seems customary and traditional somehow...like it's stems from a place of love, not pointing out a flaw because we don't really view thinness as a flaw in the same way fat is viewed.

Well, lovelysoul, I think people should be more concerned with obese kids than thin ones, but for some reason in our society it's not okay to bring attention to someone who is overweight. I get what you're saying, but it still bothers me. If my mother asked me if I was eating or said she was concerned about my weight, it would be out of love. Let's not kid ourselves here, many overweight women say these things out of spite or jealousy and mask it with "love". I would like to think that everyone who made a "skinny bitch" comment to me had the best intentions, but we both know that's not the case. It's okay to call people skinny, but it's not okay to cal them fat and that's not fair. At the time, I was working harder to get healthy than any of these women. Don't sit there and criticize my weight when it's 60 degrees in here and you're STILL sweating because you're 100 pounds overweight...and getting ready to go out and pick up your big mac. I'm the only one in that place that truly could not help my weight. No one ever said: "I'm concerned about you because you're so thin." It was always snide remarks. I was legitimately concerned about some of these women and the health problems they had from being so heavy. Could I say something? No, because saying: "I'm concerned about you because you are so fat." is "rude".

I hear what you're saying, Kimmy. In my opinion, The "skinny bitch" comments are rude, and passive aggressive, since they barely conceal the envy. But it's also that they don't view being skinny as an insult. You have to understand that to a fat person being skinny is like what being rich is to a poor person. It's a seemingly unattainable goal for them, yet you have it. They can't comprehend how this could possibly be a struggle, any more than most can comprehend that rich people have problems too.

Actually, the same sort of comments are also made towards people who are well-off financially. "Oh, you're so lucky. I hate you!" kind of comments.

All in all, I think it's better to elicit envy than pity and disdain, which is what being fat obviously provokes in people. I've never been fat, so I can't really relate, but just the anger and blame that is directed towards fat people in these comments lets me know that we skinnies are on the better end of things. Sure, the comments are snide and annoying, and you may have to wear a sweater to work, but it can't possibly be as tough as being fat and looked down upon.

I don't mean to throw another log on the stroller fire...

I've always assumed that the person who should move out of the way is the one that could most easily move out of the way. So if I'm a 24 year old, able bodied person and coming at me down the sidewalk is a 60 year old in a wheel chair...I need to move it. And if I'm a 35 year old mom with a toddler holding my hand and a baby in a stroller, and you're a 250 pound 50 year old woman - uh, you need to move.

I'd also like to add that as an RN, I see health problems all the time that are a direct result of people being fat. And still, most of us are reluctant to say to someone "This happened because you eat too much". I mean, everything from heart attacks, right down to sprained ankles. No one wants to say "You wouldn't be in the ER if you'd lost 60 pounds there, buddy."

And it's odd. I swear, we (nurses) get a less violent reaction from patients when we tell them they've got hygiene issues than if we suggest to them they need to eat less.

Oh, LS, they had the AC cranked so high that I had to wear turtleneck sweaters in July and I was still shivering! I swear the temp in there along with the germs on money are the reason I was sick 24/7 there. Did I mention is was a bank?

I do get what you're saying, but people fail to understand that some thin people would rather be a more healthy size. Why anyone would envy being 5'4" and 100 pounds soaking wet is beyond me, but as you said, I've never been that overweight, so how would I know?

I guess my situation was a little different because I was trying to gain weight as hard if not harder than they were trying to lose. When I tried to explain that, they just laughed at me more. It was hurtful to me. It also made me feel guilty for things I had no control over. I get why people can argue the other side, but in my opinion, it's just was rude to call someone skinny as it is to call them fat.