Bribing Grandma
I'm disgusted by this sort of behavior by both parties. This time, it's Obama trying to buy the senior vote. From the WSJ:
Can our retired readers be bought for $250? Apparently President Obama thinks they can, because two weeks before Election Day he has endorsed sending bonus checks for that amount to the nearly 58 million Americans on Social Security.It's hard to imagine a more blatant vote-buying exercise, especially with polls showing that seniors have turned sharply against the Democrats this year. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader (pro-tem) Harry Reid have both promised check-writing votes in the lame duck session, assuming they can fit that into all the other things they want to do before they lose their super-majorities.
The excuse for this bribery is the announcement by the Social Security Administration that, for the second year in a row, seniors will not get a cost of living increase in 2011. Prices rose by only 1.5% in the last year, having fallen nearly 2% in 2009, and seniors aren't supposed to get an increase until prices exceed their last peak.
But lest you think this is a grave injustice, Social Security recipients received a 5.8% increase two years ago. That was the largest increase in 20 years and was based on what proved to be an ephemeral increase in energy prices. Thus for 2009 seniors received a bonus increase of about $500 above inflation.
Someone on my message board claimed that seniors would not get COLAs for four years after Bush left office because of a bill he signed into law forbidding COLAs for SS recipients, intending to make Obama look bad.
Silly Bush, if true. He "misunderestimated" Obama's ability to look bad on his own.
On the subject of Bush, I would say that the stimulus checks he was giving out is also bribery.
Patrick at October 18, 2010 2:01 AM
Well hell, he could make his whole campaign about bribery. "Vote for me and I'll give you more money."
Robert at October 18, 2010 5:19 AM
Where's MY COLA? SIlly GE, all they gave their employees this year was a letter saying Obamacare was going to cost GE something over 3 billion, that they were going to eat this cost for us THIS year, but to be prepared for "big changes" coming up.
momof4 at October 18, 2010 5:53 AM
Soon as I leave the military, I'm going to start a grass roots movement to pass a constitutional ammendment which makes ALL federal officials subject to the laws they pass, moreover, it will read specifically that they may not under any circumstances exempt themselves from legislation.
Robert at October 18, 2010 6:08 AM
Well, Dad's insurance premium went up $50/month. Not so his SS check. So now, he's going to have to cut back on something (food? gas? medications? what?) in order to make up the difference. Too bad his stocks took such a hit during the 2008 meltdown. Sorry, old man, TSOL.
Makes my blood boil, it does.
Flynne at October 18, 2010 6:11 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/10/18/bribing_grandma.html#comment-1767710">comment from FlynneMy rent just went up, and my health insurance will soon, too. The government shouldn't be in the handout business, especially not when we're in such deep shit financially due to the sellout idiots in Washington throwing money at anything and everything.
Amy Alkon at October 18, 2010 6:20 AM
Well, Dad's insurance premium went up $50/month. Not so his SS check. So now, he's going to have to cut back on something (food? gas? medications? what?) in order to make up the difference. Too bad his stocks took such a hit during the 2008 meltdown. Sorry, old man, TSOL.
So, your solution is to take more money from me to pay for your ol' man? or perhaps to borrow money and pass that on to your children and take money from them that they haven't even dreamed of earning yet? or perhaps your grandchildren?
Surely you can scrape up $50/month to help out your old man? let me blunt: if you can't be bothered to make it work, why should I give two hoots?
I R A Darth Aggie at October 18, 2010 8:15 AM
Not asking you to give ANY hoots. Just bitchin that if it weren't for that damned stock exchange meltdown in the first place, this wouldn't even be an issue for my dad. Ya see, he worked his whole life, after serving in the Navy for 6 years; he took care of his wife and us kids, and he paid into the system that is now ripping him off blind. Of course it's not YOUR concern. I'm sure you couldn't give a rat's ass about anyone else's parents, but the thing is, my da paid into a system for a LONG time that is now gouging him even though he's retired. Does that seem fair to you? He earned his retirement, why should he be giving it up for people who do NOTHING but suck the system dry?
Flynne at October 18, 2010 8:27 AM
Guarantee he didn't pay into the system what he's costing the system. That's the whole problem, isn't it? (Not his fault, that's just how things are set up...) I think the idea of retirement needs to go - I am 25 and I'm pretty certain that I will work until I die.
Does he get care through Veteren's Admin.? They charge premiums?
Sam at October 18, 2010 9:08 AM
I don't see how the system is ripping him off. Stocks go up and down. That's what they do, there's risk, and potential reward. Our insurance is going up, is anyone going to give us money? Nope!
momof4 at October 18, 2010 9:15 AM
OK, I just have to ask...how the fuck did the market falling ruin your dad? What was he a long term Enron shareholder? Was he heavily vested in failed banks?
I ask because "I" invest a great deal in the market, and while I'll admit my portfolio has lost some overall value, I continue to recieve dividends from several significant sources. Now some of them have dropped significantly, what once got me $150 now get me just under $100, but nonetheless at my current rate of investment my work income will be supplementing my investment income, rather than the other way around, within 5-6 years.
So what did he do to screw up so badly that a $50 increase in costs in one area kills his financial stability?
Robert at October 18, 2010 9:17 AM
Guarantee he didn't pay into the system what he's costing the system.
I dunno. He's paid a shitload in taxes over the years. He's 79 years old and retired at 65 with a substantial pension and bennies from his company, some of which were stocks. He took a severe beating the last time the market tanked. That's not his fault either.
Does he get care through Veteren's Admin.? They charge premiums?
Stubborn old man does NOT. He didn't even think he was eligible until mom and I investigated. But he's had private insurance most of his life until he went on Medicare. They keep changing the insurance provider, so he and mom have to keep calling and asking if this dr or that one participates with their plan before they can make an appointment. It's the stuff of nightmares.
I'm 53 and pretty sure I'll be working until I drop. Even though I've got an IRA, I can't touch it for quite some time without being penalized, and since I just got this new gig, I'm not sure when I'll be able to start contributing to it again. I've been trying to put a little in here and there, even when I was unemployed, but I can only put so much in and still pay bills.
Flynne at October 18, 2010 9:19 AM
how the fuck did the market falling ruin your dad? What was he a long term Enron shareholder? Was he heavily vested in failed banks?
I didn't say he was ruined, but he did lose a lot, and he went from over $200K in his portfolio down to about $40k, give or take. And he wasn't getting much in dividends, he was reinvesting in the stocks he had. All I was saying is that for the amount of money he gets monthly from SS and his pension, and the amount of bills he's racked up health-wise, he's just about breaking even and he's in a lot better shape than a lot of other seniors out there who have a helluva lot LESS than he does.
It's not just the stock market that messed with hsi income, it's the government playing around with Medicare, Medicaid and other benefits that aren't benefitting those that they're supposed to benefit. Didn't Amy post here a while ago about the Russian mafia's Medicare scheme that was running in New York, New Jersey, wherever it was? There are so many things contributing to all the crap that's going wrong with the system that it can't keep up. And it's hell for the seniors already living on fixed incomes. At least my da has a little bit of a cushion, although that's dwindling. He and mom aren't reduced to living on cat food yet, but they have some neighbors who are damn close. What are they supposed to do, go out and get jobs? Who would hire them?
Flynne at October 18, 2010 9:29 AM
How is the market tanking not his fault? Playing the market is gambling, essentially. If you can't tolerate the risks, then you best put your money in an FDIC account and gather the .2% interest.
If your father has a pension, then he is way above most folks. And how is Medicare screwing him by giving the benefits to those who aren't supposed to get them? Any citizen age 65 and older gets them. At age 79 my guess is that he's blown through the money that he's contributed a hundred-fold. A reason the system is bankrupt.
AllenS at October 18, 2010 10:18 AM
How is the market tanking not his fault?
How is it his fault and not the millions of others who also invested? Actually, I believe it's the fault of the shysters who took advantage of people for the sole purpose of lining their own pockets. My da did not invest in shoddy or questionable stocks, he did everything above board. It was people like Bernie Madoff and others who brokered Ponzi schemes that scewed with everything. Don't blame my da for something he didn't do.
As far as Medicare goes, yes there are plenty of people Medicare is screwing with by changing the rules of the game every time you turn around, and by changing what's covered and what isn't. At age 79 my da is still pretty healthy, even though he's got early on-set Alzhiemer's and some COPD going on. He's only just in the past 2 years been hospitalized for a couple of things, and he's out now, and on medication but he's still functioning pretty well, physically anyway. I don't think he's "blown through" half yet of what he's paid into it. But I'm not here to argue. The point was made that the system is BROKEN and Obama is trying to buy the senior vote with money that isn't available to do that. And the expense is going to get passed on to our kids and their kids and it's got to stop somewhere.
Flynne at October 18, 2010 10:44 AM
OUCH. That is a nasty hit. Look, I make a pretty steady income from the market, not a ton...yet, but investing with relative security is not difficult to do. I set aside small sums for some riskier investments, but the bulk of my efforts go to reliable mutual funds which, if they don't progress a great deal, do offer reliable income and will not go bankrupt. If people had used my simple system, they wouldn't have gotten suckered into Madoff's ponzi scheme.
Anyway, I digress, bottom line though is if he wasn't collecting income from it, then while his total worth might have taken a blow, his income must not have been hit very hard.
Not knowing the specifics of his portfolio nor his reaction to the value drop I'd be speculating pointlessly to continue on this path.
But the long and the short of it is that while he personally isn't responsible for the crash, he is responsible for his market research, his investment strategy, deciding his risk tolerance, his choice of residency, and his medical care choices. And if he did choose badly on any one of those, with no one duping him along the way, then he is responsible for the part of his life impacted by his own choices.
I will agree that the system is broken, and that throwing money at seniors to buy their votes is pretty sleazy.
Robert at October 18, 2010 3:38 PM
Companies don't offer pensions anymore. Social Security will be bankrupt by the time I am old enough to receive it. That just leaves saving on my own. Inflation will outpace guaranteed rates of return (thanks to crooks on Wall Street), and crooks in Washington will take away most of whatever else I try to accumulate.
But I already know I will die poor when I'm old. Billions of people in the world do the same thing, but still manage to enjoy life while it lasts.
It was always an absurd idea to think you could retire healthy and able-bodied at 65 or sooner and then not have to work for the next 20 years. The expectation of such a thing tells me you are either delusional, or related to Bill Gates. To feel ENTITLED to it - well, someone needs to smack you.
Pirate Jo at October 18, 2010 5:13 PM
My employer notified us today that as of January 1, payout on medical claims will be reduced from 90% to 80%; deductibles will increase substantially, and co-pays will also go up.
Cousin Dave at October 18, 2010 6:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb1n1X0Oqdw
Cousin Dave, that's inflation for ya.
Pirate Jo at October 18, 2010 7:05 PM
Try this one on: Where's my Obama Cash
Jim P. at October 18, 2010 7:43 PM
Anyone who is now 79 would have almost certainly got back far more from SS and Medicare than what they paid in. To a large extent, that is how such programs for old age have always been structured. People who don't live to an old age pay in far more than what they get back, while those who live to an old age get back more than they put in. It's a bit like a lottery. If you live to 100 you get the jackpot, 35 years of government checks in the mail.
Moreover, when today's old folks were young payroll taxes were much lower than today. If you started working in the 1950s, there was no Medicare payroll tax and SS payroll tax was much less than today. So Flynn, how the fuck you work out that your old man has paid far more into the system than he has got back, I don't know. But if you can't figure out basic arithmetic, you probably shouldn't be fooling around with financial markets or anything else that is over your head. (And for every person who gets more out of the system than they paid in, there has to be someone else who gets back less than they paid in. So someone else will have to be bled to keep your old man in the manner you think he deserves).
Nick S at October 19, 2010 3:42 AM
The Flynnes of this world always want to have someone else to blame for everything that goes wrong in their lives. It is a mindset that says 'I want what I want, and if I can't have it it must be someone else's fault'. This is an ugly, primitive kind of response to things.
The common thread is that it is always someone else's fault whenever things don't work out. It must be that the system is ripping him off (even though he is most certainly getting more from 'the system' than he put in). It's not his fault he made lousy investment decisions that tanked. There is no such thing as accepting the consequences of one's actions, and realizing that sometimes things don't work out because you make poor choices and you have to live with the consequences and learn your lesson. No. It's all about how we deserve everything and finding any scapegoat whenever things don't work out. It is this kind of entitlement mentality that is so prevalent today, and so destructive.
And I like the way Flynne sheds crocodile tears about how his/her Dad looked after the family. Yet instead of returning the favor by helping him out with his/her own time and resources, it is all about how everyone else (the government, financial markets) should make things better. It is always easier to be generous and compassionate with other people's resources than with your own.
Nick S at October 19, 2010 4:51 AM
Hey Nick S, fuck off. I pay into the system just as much as anyone else does. I don't mess around with financial markets or anything else. I have an IRA and a 401k. What I WON'T have is the option to retire, because of the way the government is flagrantly subsidizing people who don't work for anything! I've worked for every damn thing I have, and so did my da. I'm not saying the government or financial markets should "make things better", I'm saying they shouldn't have fucked things up in the first place! There are no crocodile tears coming from me, asswipe. I have been paying the freaking mortgage on one of the houses they own for years, because I live in it! Actually, I've been paying MORE than the actual mortgage, so you can go fuck yourself if you're implying that I haven't given back, because I certainly have.
And this: The Flynnes of this world always want to have someone else to blame for everything that goes wrong in their lives. It is a mindset that says 'I want what I want, and if I can't have it it must be someone else's fault'. This is an ugly, primitive kind of response to things. is NOT me in any way, shape or form. I have ALWAYS paid my own way, as often as possible, and I've always paid for my kids too. So stuff your self-righteous bullshit right back up your ass where it came from. I have always been personally responsible for myself and my kids.
As far as what my da paid into the system and what he's gotten out of it, it might be that he SHOULD get a little more. He's only been really ill the last couple of years, and before that he rarely even went to the doctor. But I don't have to justify a damn thing to you. And as far as MY time and resources, you have no idea how many times I've helped out my folks with everything from grocery shopping to maintenance on their house to taking care of their garden, and more. So don't think I do nothing for them. What have you done for YOUR parents lately?
Twit.
Flynne at October 19, 2010 5:50 AM
"As far as what my da paid into the system and what he's gotten out of it, it might be that he SHOULD get a little more."
I'm not sure why that should be. Individuals have a right to their own resources, not anyone elses. We're all paying taxes for things he never imagined, he's reaping the benefits of programs and subsidies that he couldn't have contributed to either at all, or very much.
Sucks that he's ill and all, but if he can't live on his own means any longer, is it only sheer stubbornness that keeps him from residing with you?
Either way, it comes again to the question of why taxpayers should give more to support an individual's choices?
You're dead on when you say these circumstances shouldn't have occured, but the real question now is how do we fix them?
-----------
Also, I noticed you mentioned you're paying more than one mortgage for more than one property. That does not suggest a shortfall of resources on your part. Obviously you're doing something right. Might be time to impart some lessons his way?
Robert at October 19, 2010 8:12 AM
We're all paying taxes for things he never imagined, he's reaping the benefits of programs and subsidies that he couldn't have contributed to either at all, or very much.
Point taken, maybe he shouldn't get more but he should at least be covered for what he's paid into it, and it's only in the last 2 years that he's been reaping any benefits at all. I don't think taxpayers should give more support to an individual's choices, especially since we're (taxpayers) giving more to a government that is shafting all of us.
Just to let you know, I was laid off from my former job in Dec. '08. I only recently got a job, and it's part time. BF and I have been carrying a lot of weight, and it's taken a toll, but we're not bitching about that, because even though we had to use some savings, we've managed to stay afloat. Even now that I'm gainfully employed again, I don't really expect things to ease up all that much. One of my daughters is in college, his daughter is trying to refinance her student loans, and I've still got a daughter in high school.
Mom and da still are self-sufficient to an extent, but who knows how long that will last? Their savings have dwindled even moreso than mine have. Eventually they will have to sell their house and either move in with us or move into assisted living. Which, by the way, is a lot more expensive that what they're paying out now to live in their own home. I have no idea how it's going to pan out, the only thing we can do is wait and see. I have no idea how to fix what's gone wrong with the system, short of shooting the idiots who got us into this situation in the first place, and raiding their stashes! Which obviously isn't an option.
Flynne at October 19, 2010 8:32 AM
So Flynne, if it turned out that your Dad had got more out of either SS or Medicare than what he put in, you would be happy for them to cut off all the checks from then on (or to be fair, he should pay back the difference)?
Because that's what you just said. No-one should get back more than they put in, and we should not be forced to fund other people's choices.
People like you always like feeling aggrieved that someone else is ripping you off, 'we wuz robbed' and all. Yet it is a-okay if either you or one of your family members is the one benefiting.
Nick S at October 19, 2010 2:02 PM
No, that's not what I said. You're so full of shit I can smell it over here. Stop twisting my words around to suit your own agenda.
Flynne at October 20, 2010 6:41 AM
Ah Flynne, you are a class act.
This is what you said: "Point taken, maybe he shouldn't get more but he should at least be covered for what he's paid into it"
So what is your point then? That he should be able to get more than he put in? People like you are rank hypocrites. You whine and bitch about all these ill-defined moochers who are supposedly bleeding all decent hard-working, taxpaying folk dry. And yet you have no problems if someone close to you is the one benefiting. If your Dad ends up getting more money out of SS than what he put in, it means that someone else will have to put in more than they get out. By your own reasoning, doesn't that make him one of those moochers bleeding others dry?
And you still can't explain to me why you believe your Dad would have paid more into programs like SS and Medicare when payroll taxes were lower in the past than today. But never let the facts get in the way of a good self-righteous victim narrative.
As I say, you simply like blaming other people and having someone to scapegoat when things go wrong. You couldn't care less if the facts or evidence don't match up. It is all about indulging your favorite emotion of self-righteous, victimhood entitlement.
Nick S at October 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Sure. Whatever you say. Right.
Flynne at October 21, 2010 4:43 AM
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