Which 20-Something Men Out There Don't Watch Porn?
Scientists at the University of Montreal launched a search for men in their 20s who had never looked at pornography - but couldn't find any, reports Jonathan Liew in the Telegraph/UK:
Researchers were conducting a study comparing the views of men in their 20s who had never been exposed to pornography with regular users.But their project stumbled at the first hurdle when they failed to find a single man who had not been seen it.
"We started our research seeking men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography," said Professor Simon Louis Lajeunesse. "We couldn't find any."
Does this describe you? At what age did your porn-watching...sorry...peter off, guys...if at all?
And here's a question: Did or does your porn-watching affect your relationship (not because your partner finds out, but because of the porn itself), or is or was it more like a benign form of male sightseeing?
And feel free to comment anonymously, i.e., not in your usual name if you're a regular commenter. Just try to take a number (Anonymous33, Anonymous10, etc.)
My husband watches porn. And it only causes me worry for two reasons: 1. He has been known to watch porn & go jerk off while I am at home and ready for some lovin. 2. He watched gay porn once! Weve talked about both of those issues and he hasnt done either one since (that I know of, at least im not going to bed unhappy anymore.) Im watching my back on the gay porn situation though... he said he was just curious, but you dont go into a chinese restaurant unless you want that kind of food... right? Im conflicted...
Chelsey at November 12, 2010 9:13 AM
The only reason porn bothered me with my ex was because he was jerking off to it instead of having sex with me. He couldn't maintain an erection for longer than a few minutes (although he seemed plenty into other women, so I admit that the problem may have simply been that he just wasn't that into me).
My current husband looks at porn discreetly (I have never seen it around the apartment or up on his monitor), and our sex life is fine, so I don't sweat it.
MonicaP at November 12, 2010 9:36 AM
@Chelsey -
re the gay porn thing - I know from personal experience that it's quite possible to be aroused by men's unique equipment, and still have zero interest in anything above the waist or in having any sort of a romantic relationship with a man.
Not to get too graphic...I love women, I love my wife, I would never want to be with, date, kiss, cuddle, or have any sort of romantic relationship with a man - but I've definitely found myself enjoying man-on-man porn every once in a blue moon.
Anonymous33 at November 12, 2010 9:47 AM
Anonymous, it sounds more like you've chosen to be with women for cuddles and romance, but that you're sexually turned on by men.
Chelsey, I think very few straight men would watch gay porn. That should be a concern.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 9:55 AM
Well, there is a bit more to the story that feeds my insecurities. I also dont want to get too graphic on here but my husband and I (BOTH of us) enjoy pegging (google it) in the bedroom. If it was just the gay porn or just the pegging, I wouldnt worry at all. But both of those facts make me wonder whats going on in his head. Its probably nothing sinister, but I still want to stay on my toes about it.
Chelsey at November 12, 2010 10:01 AM
@lovelysoul
No, I've chosen to be with women for cuddles, romance and sex. I would cite statistics for you on my pre-marriage partners and anecdotes on my post-marriage exploits, but that's crass.
I'm not sexually turned on by men. I'm sexually turned on (occasionally) by a man's penis.
Anonymous33 at November 12, 2010 10:04 AM
I don't know ANY straight guys that would go to a gay porn site, even out of curiosity.
Amy- a friend of mine ran a retirement home for years. He said their biggest daily problem was all the old folks, male and female, coupling and masturbating.
Eric at November 12, 2010 10:07 AM
Loved this tweet back from @WalterMoore:
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 10:09 AM
@Eric
No, you don't know any straight guys that would admit to watching gay porn, even out of curiosity.
Anonymous33 at November 12, 2010 10:14 AM
True, true.
Eric at November 12, 2010 10:22 AM
I think there would be a difference in watching gay porn purely for curiosity and actually being aroused by gay porn. You may be bisexual. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you're not acting on it secretly.
I can imagine straight guys watching gay porn to ridicule it, or out of curiosity, but not because the sight of a penis excites them. That's something else entirely.
Chelsey, I looked up pegging. Learn something new everyday. I suppose it's possible that if he enjoys being "pegged"(?), he might simply be fantazing about that, rather than being with men, but you should really talk with him about it and stay on your toes until you're comfortable. The fact you're feeling insecure isn't something you should ignore.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 10:38 AM
"a friend of mine ran a retirement home for years. He said their biggest daily problem was all the old folks, male and female, coupling and masturbating."
Why was that a problem?
Steve Daniels at November 12, 2010 10:39 AM
"He watched gay porn once!"--Chelsey
Stop it; you are being dramatic. You know how you try on shoes at the store, and sometimes try on shoes that you would *never* buy, let alone wear? Same thing for a guy and porn. He sometimes just browses through things that don't really interest him, but since it is there, and he has an extra five minutes, what the heck? /click
If a guy clicks on something like that once, or even a dozen times, it is likely out of semi-bored curiousity. Similarly, guys will peruse porn involving fat or elderly women, even though they have zero interest in fat or elderly women, and even find it repugnant. A guy sometimes clicks on a link just to get a bit of a laugh (or whatever) out of something odd to him. Ask him if he wants that touching his junk, though, and the answer is likely no.
"Chelsey, I think very few straight men would watch gay porn. That should be a concern."--lovelysoul
Women: be *very* careful about taking advice about male sexuality from a woman. You will likely get better advice from a woman about what her cat is thinking, as gals seem to have a better understanding of felines than they do males.
Spartee at November 12, 2010 10:50 AM
I watch lesbian porn. Does that mean I'm gay? I think a man could watch gay porn for curiosity. Not saying not to be aware, though, for other signs....like the pegging. Although I must say, a lot of men I've been with (and yeah, there's been a LOT) liked a little finger-up-the-hiennie action while getting a BJ. Sort of pegging-light, I guess?
momof4 at November 12, 2010 10:52 AM
Porn is about fantasy for both guys and gender bias nut jobs. The fantasies are a bit different though.
vlad at November 12, 2010 10:55 AM
Have they tried asking guys at a monastery?
lsomber at November 12, 2010 11:00 AM
Spartee, I know quite a lot about porn, and I don't see a conflict between what I said and what you said. If it's for curiosity or a laugh -a click out of boredom - that's one thing, but actually jerking off to gay porn would be quite rare for a straight guy.
Maybe doing it once could be viewed as no big deal, but if a guy were repeatedly seeking gay sex scenes to get aroused and jerk off to, that's very different.
I don't know if a)Chelsey's meaning of "once" is a singular time or a period in his life. b) whether he watched out of curiosity or actually jerked off to it.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 11:00 AM
> Women: be *very* careful about taking
> advice about male sexuality from a woman.
Wish I'd said that.
A few years ago, the US airlines used to send their used tickets to the Philippines to be keyed into computers. The Filipinos who did this data entry, Tagalog-ers all, didn't read English... They just knew to push this button when they saw the character shaped like J and that button when they saw the character shaped like B.
It came to mind when LS put it like this....
> That should be a concern.
I thought, ah- The perfect phonetic emotional reading, completely devoid of heartbeat and odors. Not that she's concerned, not that you're concerned, not that anyone's ever been concerned such that there was a good or bad outcome.
Just that there should be "concern."
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 12, 2010 11:05 AM
More not-too-subtle male-shaming commentary from Lovelysoul? I'm shocked!
I'd be interested in knowing what makes her such an expert on men and porn ...
Jay R at November 12, 2010 11:12 AM
There should be concern, and there obviously IS concern from Chelsey. A lot of men are living double lives and seeking out gay sex. A gay friend of mine attends orgy parties and he says you can't believe the number of married men who show up.
Now, maybe some do this with the blessings of their wives, but he suspects the majority of wives have no idea.
So, Chelsey can brush this off, and maybe it isn't a big deal, but I don't think she'd have brought it up if she didn't have some concern that he may, in fact, be bisexual.
And, honestly, Crid, you're the last person I'd think would be ok with that.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 11:12 AM
This isn't about porn or shaming guys for watching porn, Jay R. This is purely about whether straight men frequently watch gay porn. Women do, like momof4 said, but, like Eric said, few straight guys do...or admit to doing it.
Maybe it's common. Hell if I know. Maybe you, Spartee, and Crid and all you guys are jerking off to other guys.
No doubt you'll *pretend* it's normal just to dump on me....but, really?
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 11:17 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/11/12/which_20somethi.html#comment-1781079">comment from SparteeWomen: be *very* careful about taking advice about male sexuality from a woman.
So...you find errors in the advice I dispense, for example, about men being very visual, etc. and women needing to take care of themselves (because a guy might love your beautiful interior after you gain 30 pounds, but he might not want to have sex with you)?
Please let me know where I've gone wrong.
The problem is when women are dispensing advice based on their own biases, and when they think they know more than they do.
By the way, my friend Dr. Catherine Salmon is one of the most informed people on porn, and can probably give very good advice as well.
In general, I think women are not very good at understanding male sexuality, but not all women fit that bill.
Amy Alkon at November 12, 2010 11:41 AM
"Women: be *very* careful about taking advice about male sexuality from a woman. You will likely get better advice from a woman about what her cat is thinking, as gals seem to have a better understanding of felines than they do males."
-------------------------------------
Amen to that! If a woman sets you up with a blind date and you ask her "Is she pretty" and the woman responds "oh yes, she's very pretty"
You know no more about the attractiveness of your blind date than you did before you asked the question.
As far as the thread...
My interest in porn ebbs and flows depending on how steady I'm getting sex. When I have a girlfriend I only rarely look at porn so it's not much of an issue. When I don't have a girlfriend there's no one to bitch at me for it. So it doesn't really affect my relationships.
And I like amatuers. Professional porn bores me, it's like looking at two blowup dolls getting it on. So I don't get unrealistic expectations from it.
I've had some buddies who's wives or girlfriends have "forbidden" them to look at porn. If a woman ever did that to me I'd laugh in her face.
perro at November 12, 2010 11:43 AM
Never consumed porn? I believe that's hard to find. Porn is very pervasive in our culture. Even someone who's morally against it and doesn't want to consume it has probably seen some once. Male or female.
NicoleK at November 12, 2010 11:43 AM
It seems like the porn consumption instead of banging the wife/gf is a common problem... I've known quite a few women with that problem.
NicoleK at November 12, 2010 11:45 AM
Like vlad said above, porn is about fantasy. I have fantasies about a lot of things, many of which are not sexual at all - perhaps beating a particularly obnoxious person on the subway one morning; or stealing a television; or moving to the mountains and living off the land; or having oral sex with another man.
All of these things are fantasies, for the reason that none of thing are ever going to happen. None of which I really want to have happen. But that doesn't mean they don't cross my mind during certain extremes of emotion, be it frustration, or envy, or disillusionment, or lust.
Anonymous33 at November 12, 2010 11:46 AM
I was never into watching porn. The videos I've seen tend to be cheesy and I don't like plastic people. The same thing with magazines, I'm not into artificial.
Having said that, though, I started masturbating to art history books in high school, and still like pin-ups and that. Now, though, I'm more apt to use my own fantasies. And, as I'm 50, those are fewer, less if I'm tired.
But lazy mornings are great.
Mishief of Rats at November 12, 2010 11:47 AM
@ Lovely Soul It was just that once that I know of. I dont know if he jerked off to it. If he did I would be more worried than I am right now.
@ Crid I guess Im just insecure. I was worried he was having gay fantasies or some such, I dont know. Hes not gay, maybe bi-curious. If Im wearing anything less than sweats hes chasing me around the house.
I do feel better knowing its a normal activity for a straight man (out of curiosity).
Chelsey at November 12, 2010 11:50 AM
I watched some male-on-male porn once. It literally washed ashore at my house - a vcr (yeah, those were the old days). Must've fallen off a boat. We plugged it in and my ex started laughing and said, "I'll leave you to enjoy this." And I did! It was pretty hot. Some jail scene.
That said, it would've worried me if he'd wanted to watch it...more than out of curiosity or for laughs. I get what you're saying, anonymous - that it's just an out of the ordinary fantasy for you, and maybe for more guys than we know, but, unlike men, we women aren't too comfortable with our guys being bi-curious.
I mean, I'm no prude. I spend almost every Jan at Hedonism in Jamaica, where couples have sex openly, but it's a complete taboo for guys to get it on there...or seemingly be turned on by other men. Maybe some are covertly staring at the other guys, but you'd never know it.
Girl on girl, however, is as common as sunshine.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 12:03 PM
Mid 50s, have been consuming porn since 13, will probably as long as I have half a functioning brain and am able to be stimulated by it. Leaving my parents' house at 21 increased my consumption greatly; the advent of the internet increased it a lot more yet.
Porn has replaced sex for me in my marriage. Wife is nearly 400 lbs, over twice what she weighed when we married. She has all the medical complications you'd expect, all of it self-inflicted and avoidable. She has also refused opportunities (surgery, etc.) to improve her situation.
Funny thing, the weight isn't even the biggest turnoff. The pervasive sense of helplessness and dependency is. I greatly value self-reliance, and she is the polar opposite of that in almost every way.
I make it possible for her to remain the way she is, and my guilt and resignation about the situation, and my resentment of her attitude, drive all my interaction with her.
As for gay porn, it's merely one of the many kinks in my viewing repertoire. There are many others. Whatever turns me on at a given time is fair game. I would not want to actually engage in most of my kinks, including gay activity -- I am 100% certain of my heterosexual identity.
anon162 at November 12, 2010 12:12 PM
Spartee: "Women: be *very* careful about taking advice about male sexuality from a woman."
Ms. Alkon: So...you find errors in the advice I dispense, for example, about men being very visual, etc. and women needing to take care of themselves (because a guy might love your beautiful interior after you gain 30 pounds, but he might not want to have sex with you)?
I said "be careful", not "never". FWIW, in general, I find your views such matters fairly on target.
Speaking more generally, I am surprised at how many female friends over the years have looked at me in stunned silence when I explain to them what drives men and how men view things.
I expect that men generally exhibit similiarly daft misconceptions about gals.
Spartee at November 12, 2010 12:16 PM
Spartee said: "I said 'be careful', not 'never'. FWIW, in general, I find your views such matters fairly on target."
Ms. Alkon - I agree with Spartee. You're hardly a typical woman in terms of your attitude towards most things, which is a big reason you're successful at what you do. I'd be happy to have my wife taking advice from you, particularly on sex. But from most women? Hell no.
Anonymous33 at November 12, 2010 12:21 PM
Hedonism? Gee, I learn something every day.
Thinking about my own self, I think I'm strange. I find that Asia Carrera's admonition, that female porn stars don't actually look that good, is correct. I have evidence (not just my opinion, folks) that my first wife is the only woman on Earth who can walk in heels - an instant head-turner when she moved. I threw my meager collection of Playboys, etc., away immediately when I met my second wife, because she smoked everybody I could imagine in there. My wife now is not the most glamorous person in the world (of course, I'm not either), but she's the one I run to in a crowd, no matter how attractive they are. No, she doesn't like it when I notice Marina Sirtis or Julianne Hough... but the whole package is important. I'm sure you all remember the Internet meme, "No matter how fine she is, somebody is tired of her shit."
There's a connected issue here. Though porn - and the soft-core stuff - gets blamed for pushing "the wrong self-image for young people today," note the difference between the fit on the screen and the fat on the couch? Here we go with Jezebel's crowd again!
Didja see Emma Watson at the Harry Potter gala recently? To me, that beats all gynecological photography, because the girl's not a ho!
Radwaste at November 12, 2010 12:24 PM
I was just going to leave this one alone and let the boys have it, but everybody's jumping into the pool so I will too:
I know he watches it when I'm not around, but that's not because he thinks I'll be pissed. I just can't watch porn with him. I'm too critical of uber-long fingernails and women staring into the camera. Or I'm laughing.
Can't watch modern porn at all. Shiny plastic shaved people who barely acknowledge they have a partner. (From what little I've seen. Used to have a good friend who managed a porn shop but I'm a little behind in what's new these days.)
I can't get into butt-slapping and spitting. Turns me off immediately.
Give me the classics. The Devil in Miss Jones II, The Ribald Tales of Canterbury, Caligula...
Pricklypear at November 12, 2010 1:03 PM
"Or I'm laughing."
------------------------------
I had a girlfriend like that once. She would go out and rent porno movies to watch with me (I really wasn't too interested since I was getting laid all the time)
But the thing is she didn't get aroused by them, to her they were comedies. She would laugh hysterically and make MST3000 type comments the whole way through.
perro at November 12, 2010 1:19 PM
48 years old and still looking at porn; mainly of the soft-core variety. I still say no one rivals Playboy for producing the finest quality soft-core porn on the market today. But I digress. My wife doesn't mind; she says as long as I'm keeping her back warm at night she's okay with it.
She has been known to accompany me into a bookstore; I'll hold up a magazine while she looks at the gardening mags and she'll see the cover and yells out "You don't own that one...."
My wife. I think I'll keep her.....
roadgeek at November 12, 2010 1:36 PM
No Anonymous33, I have to go against you on this one, I don't know any straight men who want anything to do with gay porn either. And yes I'm confident they've not been hiding it, I'm on their computers and vice versa doing porn swaps and other general use, unless you count lesbians, in which case we have plenty of those.
------------------
momof4, women's sexuality is not the same as male sexuality. Female sexuality is far more mutable, according to one survey I read about, some 50% of straight women asked, admitted to occasional bisexual attractions. You won't find any straight males who won't go "eww" about the idea of doing another dude. Lets face it, women are beautiful, works of art in motion, men, we're built for function, like the difference between a bulldozer and a symphony.
Robert at November 12, 2010 2:32 PM
I once saw the infamous "2girls1cup" clip, perhaps I should check into a monestary. Wait, I think I saw porno once that took place with monks and nuns gettin it on. I'm scarred for life I guess.
Sio at November 12, 2010 2:46 PM
My wife and I spent a certain time having "porn Sundays"
I would load some into the iPod and we would spend the day in bed fooling around and laughing our asses off.
We developed certain criterion :
Solo, M or F: basically boring
Twos: couple ,good, FF kinda ok( costumes help), MM nope.
Threes: FFM good, MMF not so much.
After that the more females the merrier.
Now I watch occasionally for fantasy ideas and the like,so when we have the time I can bring some variety to the workbench.or kitchen table........
Mb at November 12, 2010 2:48 PM
"She would laugh hysterically and make MST3000 type comments the whole way through."
I would love to see those guys riff through a porno. Love it. Love. It. At least I think I would.
Pricklypear at November 12, 2010 2:59 PM
...probably coming into the discussion too late to make a difference, but don't you need to define more precisely what you mean by 'pornography'??
If we are talking about tasteful images of naked (or semi-clad), "girl-next-door" type, pretty girls in the age bracket from mid-teens to about 30; then --Hell, Yes! -- I've been enjoying that since I was about 10 years old and probably will until I die. (I'm in my mid-sixties.)
But if you are talking about artificial, painted-up, silicone-stuffed freaks engaging in real (or simulated)sex acts; I find that revolting.
anon-999 at November 12, 2010 3:00 PM
Chelsey, I think very few straight men would watch gay porn. That should be a concern.
Even if looking at gay porn automatically means he's aroused by men, why would this be a concern? Are men not allowed to be bisexual?
Jaltcoh at November 12, 2010 3:04 PM
"Are men not allowed to be bisexual?"
Sure, as long as he's honest about that. His partner should know who he really is and what he's all about sexually. Then, she can decide if that's something she's comfortable with.
But if he's in denial or hiding his sexual activities, it would be a concern.
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 3:13 PM
My own experience says:
- Porn is out there but good porn is distinctly uncommon (unless you are talking simple nude poses like those found in Playboy).
- Men look at porn nearly universally (surprise! They found no "don't consume porn" men).
- Women who like porn (again it's hard to find) 'usually' mostly do not find porn "important" like men do.
- Women who like porn masturbate more frequently and are most sexual (my observation and comment to them is "your sexuality is like a man's sexuality").
- Get a single good "porn" picture and attach a good 'wrong but sexy/erotic' story to the picture, women like that a lot.
- Lesbian porn and gay porn are not equivalent. Women who like porn like lesbian porn (my experience is that is universal). Men tend to be black and white on what porn they watch. Poster commented 'ok, most men watch gay porn out of curiosity'. I think that is not likely.
- Posters comments of 'don't trust female advice on sex' and 'there are exceptions'....absolutely correct on both accounts. And an adult single man with a female friend who gives him advice based on reality and not pie in the sky? Absolutely
TW at November 12, 2010 3:52 PM
"Porn" is kind of a fluid term.
As a young boy I remember being fascinated by the womens underwear ads in the old Sears cataloge.
perro at November 12, 2010 4:14 PM
"Are men not allowed to be bisexual?"
Sure, as long as he's honest about that. His partner should know who he really is and what he's all about sexually.
Well, we have no idea what the actual situation is. We don't know what's in his head, and we don't know what conversations they've had. If he's mainly straight and just mildly bisexual (as in, he's occasionally aroused by men, but it's never been a major part of his life or identity), it might have never come up in conversation. I find it interesting how we leap to the conclusion that it's a problem if a man is bisexual.
Jaltcoh at November 12, 2010 4:22 PM
> No doubt you'll *pretend* it's normal
> just to dump on me....
The normalcy of masculine sexuality isn't the most fascinating part of this... It's your reflexive habit of seeing people as simplistic puzzles rather than human spirits.
> Please let me know where I've gone wrong.
This is the Big One, OK? As Paglia put it, "Sex is nature in man". We don't get to reduce these matters to a simple set of principles that can be printed on a laminated card for your purse. For the serious student of human nature there's always another paradox, anorther loop of logic that's not been explored yet. Really understanding how this stuff works takes humility and a deep appreciation for irony, rather than a certitude and a fondness for quick answers.
Crid at November 12, 2010 4:44 PM
Probably the 1st time I "consumed" porn was when I found a porn mag at age 13. No it hasn't effected my relationships. I was having sexual fantasies years before that.
MaleAnon13 at November 12, 2010 4:48 PM
As best I can recall, I never watched porn in my 20's, unless you count the pictures in Playboy. My 20's were a long time ago; the Internet didn't exist and I was too cheap to own a VCR or subscribe to premium cable channels. I did read plenty of porn back then, but none of it had pictures that I can recall.
Later on when I did watch, I found most hard-core porn to be a turnoff because the participants in sex scenes acted like they were bored with the whole thing.
Rex Little at November 12, 2010 5:53 PM
I would really like to understand how this stuff works, but I've had it through the eyeballs, no pun intended...having porn left in the dvd player, kid's turn on the tv in the morning; computer spiked - kid's turn it on when they come home...
Bye.
No, we don't get to reduce these matters to a simple set of principles. But WTF.
I'm not talking about some 20 year old, understandably curious person. Heck, even as a child, my girlfriend and I found her father's boxes of Playboys hidden the basement. We were interested.
People are strange, even after knowing them for decades.
Cindy at November 12, 2010 5:58 PM
Hey! Where's Ben-David?
Radwaste at November 12, 2010 6:01 PM
Watching porn?
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 6:07 PM
"It's your reflexive habit of seeing people as simplistic puzzles rather than human spirits"
The nice thing about you, Crid, is that your insults are so bizarre that it's hard to feel truly offended. I have absolutely no idea what that means or how it applies to anything I wrote about straight guys watching gay porn.
"If he's mainly straight and just mildly bisexual (as in, he's occasionally aroused by men, but it's never been a major part of his life or identity)..."
I'll let the guys address this, because I honestly can't know, but is it really possible for a guy to be "mildly bisexual"?
It doesn't seem very common, at least.
By contrast, I've suggested to some of the women who go to Hedonism and have oral sex with other women that they are, in fact, bisexual, but most of them deny this. At best, they believe they're "mildly bisexual" too...though having girl on girl sex is almost exclusively what they do there.
If you're getting really turned on by the same gender, much less acting on that attraction, there doesn't seem to be anything "mild" about it. So, why deny it, or play word games?
lovelysoul at November 12, 2010 6:26 PM
Look, I've already identified you as a psychopath. You've left me nowhere to go.
Crid at November 12, 2010 7:53 PM
My husband and I watch porn together. I certainly wouldn't begrudge him watching alone. If someone's using porn in lieu of sex with a willing spouse then the problem isn't the porn, it's the relationship.
Regarding gay porn, I'm straight but could definitely be turned on by a couple of hot chicks getting it on. Only one thing makes a person gay and that's enjoying sexual relations with someone of the same sex. Not watching the occasional viddy or even fantasizing about it. Rape fantasy is pretty common among women, not that many besides myself will admit it. Do you think that means I want to be raped? Sheesh.
Beth at November 12, 2010 8:20 PM
I have consumed porn in just about every form since I was 13 -- at age 44 I now still use it. But I'm a single guy so my own fantasies don't always do it. One ex-gf would read my Penthouse Letters, but wasn't interested in looking at the pictures.
As far as bisexuality, homosexuality and the rest of it:
I had a gf that would shudder if I mentioned girl-on-girl.
I had a gf that said she did a threesome -- two girls one guy. They didn't do each other.
I had a gf that thought about g-on-g but never really had an opportunity.
I knew a lady that admitted she had done it a couple of times but enjoyed guys more.
Same with talking to guys. Some are "eww", some are I would consider it, some go both ways, some go the other way completely.
There is no pat answer on human sexuality. The decision and proclivities are a combo of genetics, your familial upbringing (religion, morals, parental/sibling pressure), your societies peer pressure and mores/culture.
Every single person has to make their own decisions. When it comes to sexuality I won't say there are no wrong answers -- but a total submissive has to have a dominant that knows the limits. The dominant needs to know there are limits. Even in an equal relationship -- both parties need to discuss what they want out of the sexual relationship. It is the same as dealing with financial issues -- if you don't or can't talk about it -- you are doomed to problems.
Jim P. at November 12, 2010 8:51 PM
"Look, I've already identified you as a psychopath. You've left me nowhere to go."
Thanks for the laugh-no disrespect ls
LL at November 12, 2010 9:16 PM
I'm straight but could definitely be turned on by a couple of hot chicks getting it on.
But you're a woman (I'm assuming from the name). Men are much, much more likely to be either-or in their sexual arousal. Women are more fluid in what they're aroused by, even if they would never be inclined to actually do it. A former professor of mine was involved in a study that measured men and women's arousal to different scenes (both gay and straight men and women, I don't think there were any bisexual subjects because of what the study was about). The women were turned on by pretty much everything, regardless of their sexual orientations. The men were aroused by the scenes that fit with their orientations.
Bottom line: men and women's sexualities are different and pretending they're the same does no one any favors.
So, while it is possible for a straight man to be turned on by a solo male or gay male sex scene, it's far less likely than a woman being turned on by a lesbian scene.
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 9:38 PM
the study that numbersix mentions is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=1
jun at November 12, 2010 11:24 PM
Actually, it was several years ago, but thanks for the link, jun!
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 11:26 PM
Okay, I meant that the study I was referring was a different one that took place several years ago. Sorry. I should go to bed.
NumberSix at November 12, 2010 11:59 PM
"Which 20-Something Men Out There Don't Watch Porn?"
Try the Amish or the blind, could probably find some there.
"At what age did your porn-watching...sorry...peter off, guys...if at all?"
I wouldn't say at an age it petered off, but more if i'm with someone porn use greatly diminishes but not to zero. Hey I'd rather steak than a pb+j sandwitch, but you occasionally want a pb+j.
" Did or does your porn-watching affect your relationship (not because your partner finds out, but because of the porn itself), or is or was it more like a benign form of male sightseeing?"
Yes, watching and reading porn affected some relationships, in a GOOD way. Shoot one gf subscribed me to a certain magazine, because it gave us more idea to try out. That and I admit I had a tough shy childhood. I was also initially mainly taught by women, how to treat women on a date/relationship. I agree with the above, men should rarely listen to most womens advice, but I was young and nieve, and therefore practically dateless. Porn cured that by telling mewomen were ok with sex they liked men to be somewhat agressive/forward that being a gentleman was nice on paper but meant you went home alone.
Porn helped cure that by changing views of women.
So does it affect? Yes. All experiences affect us. But why assume that the affect is always negative.
Joe at November 13, 2010 9:15 AM
Isn't this a fascinating thread? Chock full of hypocrisy, honesty, shame, and the assumed legitimacy of female sexual control over men.
With very few exceptions,and most of those exceptions aren't healthy, married men are thinking about all kinds of stuff that would make their wives freak. Wives have two choices:
(1) they can continue their roles as sexual scolds and suppressors. There are some good societal stability arguments for coninuing in this role, not to mention they might keep their husbands from doing something really crazy.
(2) They can allow and deal with male honesty about sexuality. Women who can do this are in a decided minority. Note I said CAN, not WANT TO.
For many a woman, it's as mortifying to consider letting her partner tell her about stuff she's freaked out by as it is for most men to contemplate homosexual activity. I'm not saying these two kinds of revulsion necessarily have common roots, as much as pointing out to men that she's likely as freaked out about giving up sexual shame control as you would be if she started trying to talk you into having sex with guy.
In most cases, where women choose strategy (1), men just shut their wives out from their sexuality except for the part that's in her narrow acceptable range.
I think it's a hilarious level of denial when women immediately blame porn rather than first looking at themselves when their man prefers porn to them. This is how deeply women feel like they own men's sexuality--they question their right to inhibit men about as much as you'd question your right to housebreak your dog. Porn is experienced by many (most?) women as both sexual insult and a sign of incipient insurrection.
All you controlling ladies, if you have an ethical man, he's still going to sneak around sexually behind your back. But will stay in the house, masturbating and watching porn, and sometimes thinking about something/someone else when he's banging you. This is actually a really good bargain--you should take it when offered. If your man's unethical, you don't get any control--you get Elliot Spitzer.
Another way to go might be to think about giving up some control to get greater intimacy and honesty. Sometimes that will end in disaster, but most of the time it doesn't.
Hieronymous at November 13, 2010 1:21 PM
Gee, Hieronymous. Like guys are never controlling? It's just women?
Plenty of couples have equal, loving, healthy and sexually intimate relationships, where both partners are able to share what turns them on, in porn or otherwise.
In fact, that's the best way to enjoy porn. Not beating off in secret like some rebellious teenager, sneaking around so "mommy" won't catch you.
And, you know, if you have an ethical wife, she's still going sneak around sexually behind your back, masturbating to the thought of Brad Pitt banging her instead of you. We all have fantasies.
lovelysoul at November 13, 2010 1:38 PM
There's been a lot of male Eewww!ing about how icky heterosexual men find gay sex to be.
I'm not taking issue with the self-reported fact that most heterosexual men feel revulsion in the presence of homosexual acts. I will take issue with the strong implication that revulsion to homesexuality is a fundamental aspect of male heterosexuality.
Step back for a minute and think: Doesn't it seem more logical that indifference rather than revulsion should be the default heterosexual response to homosexuality? What's with the revulsion? If someone else is eating a food you don't particularly like, does that put you off your own food? (If you answer yes, you're neurotic. Go away.) Or do you just mostly not care what other people are eating?
To take the eating analogy a little further, yes, it does sometimes put you off if somebody is eating something that is exotic enough. Why? because it's outside your comfort zone and you're, for some reason, you're having a hard time not imagining yourself having to eat that.
Such food preferences and revulsions are deeply cultural, not inborn. They feel completely visceral. But we know that had you been born in China you'd have no problem with eating raw eyeballs from various things. And we know from honest reflection that there's nothing inherently grosser about eyeballs than about fried eggs sunny side up.
Similarly, the revulsion most straight men feel against homosexuality is cultural, and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being heterosexual. Hell, it's become a cliche that extreme revulsion to homosexuality is a reaction formation to suppress culturally unacceptable attraction.
When I was 17, I saw my first gay kiss and nearly barfed, literally. It was close.
It's 40 years later now, and I've had several gay friends and it's been decades since I was bothered by gay PDA. I credit that to being exposed to actual gay people--becoming "desensitized" to it--and to just growing up and also becoming more desensitized to societal shaming mechanisms. That is one of the nice things about getting older--finding yourself really, not rebelliously, not giving a damn what most people think about you.
It's currently fashionable to deny the reality of male bisexuality in predominantly heterosexual men. This meme is common to both gay and ostentatiously straight cultures: If a man has ANY bisexual leanings at all, it is only a matter of time before he admits that he's actually primarily homosexual.
From my old fart perspective, I have come to think that this new "zero tolerance policy" for any level of male bisexuality is merely another cultural taboo intended to help men repress their own less than 100% hetero feelings.
Hieronymous at November 13, 2010 1:49 PM
@Lovelysoul,
A man and his wife were sitting in the living room one evening. He was reading and she was knitting, appropriately enough.
The man said to his wife, "Says here in the newspaper that the problem with most women today is that they take things too personally."
His wife responded, "Well, I don't!"
I must have said something you didn't take personally for you to misunderstand what I said so completely.
Most wives have an engraved invitation from their husbands to tell their fantasies. I doubt anywhere near the same percentage of husbands as wives are granted the same privilege.
If you will read the conclusions drawn in your post, I think you'll find that I don't disagree with you that (more) honesty is usually the best policy.
My wife is more than welcome to tell me about her Brad Pitt or Being Peed on fantasies. It is not a provilege she indulges all that frequently
Hieronymous at November 13, 2010 1:59 PM
Joe - "I wouldn't say at an age it petered off, but more if i'm with someone porn use greatly diminishes but not to zero. Hey I'd rather steak than a pb+j sandwitch, but you occasionally want a pb+j."
Beat me to it. If I'm getting laid regularly, I rarely want porn or want to masturbate.
I think porn is only a problem when it becomes a substitute for having sex with your willing partner.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at November 13, 2010 2:11 PM
I'm sorry if I misunderstood, Hieronymous. There was just a lot of mention of women controlling and shaming men. That's too bad when it happens, but I know it doesn't happen with many women, myself included. I encourage my partner to tell me his fantasies.
But we are less inhibited than some couples, since we go to nudist resorts, like Hedonism. I think every couple should go there at least once, if only to get the fantasy dialogue flowing.
I like the analogy someone here used about steak and PB&J. Mostly, women want to be your steak. If you grab a little sandwich to hold you over, it's no big deal. The problem arises when we start to feel like the porn or fantasies about other women have become the steak and we're just the PB&J.
That's going to shut down communication and cause a woman to resent any outside stimulation, including porn.
Basically, a woman wants to feel like she comes first, and there's all sorts of ways a man can send that message and a whole lot of ways he can't. The most successful open relationships I've seen happen when the guy knows how to send that message - that he's not going to do anything to hurt his partner or make her feel threatened. She always comes first.
lovelysoul at November 13, 2010 2:24 PM
The older I've gotten, the more skeptical I've become of the idea of bisexuality as a sexual orientation. Because most of the people I've known, or know of, who had practiced bisexuality when they were younger now identify as homosexual. Though this is less common among the women, and especially if they weren't actively bisexual. I also know several straight women who will still tell you that they're bisexual, but they haven't ever been with a woman, or their experience is very limited and dates back to college or some time when were much younger. The bisexuality thing was big among women when I was in college in the 90's, and I wonder if some women hang onto the identification as a statement of some sort.
But generally I'd be wary of getting involved with someone who was actually bisexual. I've just seen two many incidents of couples getting older and the bisexual one suddenly discovering that they'd been homosexual all along.
Norm at November 13, 2010 4:59 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/11/12/which_20somethi.html#comment-1781761">comment from NormNorm, I don't really focus on this area of research, but from that I've read, it seems that men are more fixed in their sexuality (gay or straight) and that women are more likely to have more fluid sexuality (go both ways, as the saying says).
Amy Alkon at November 13, 2010 5:03 PM
It took research to find that out Amy? Sounds like a case for Captain Obvious to me. Predominantly straight girls will kiss each other at parties to get the men hot. Find me the straight boys who will do that.
Ltw at November 13, 2010 5:47 PM
Right. The dichotomy, IIRC, is described as narcissistic vs objectifying. Basically women are narcissistically oriented and so their arousal isn't as tied to the gender of their partner. Narcissistic in the formal sense, not to mean self absorbed.
Norm at November 13, 2010 6:04 PM
> we know from honest reflection that
> there's nothing inherently grosser about
> eyeballs than about fried eggs
> sunny side up.
Glib.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at November 13, 2010 6:48 PM
Ah but lovelysoul, many women upon discovering that bf has a pb+j is to go on the warpath to destroy all possible competition, and no mater how many times it is said or shown, never feel like steak.
Joe at November 13, 2010 7:54 PM
Both my husband and I watch porn, usually not together, because we like different things. I also tend to read erotic stories with pictures, which is something that does not work for him.
It has been a while since we have had sex with eachother (we are working on it) but this is a way that both of us can satisfy a natural urge.
The balance is a delicate one - are we not having sex becuase we have focussed on porn adn not ourselves, or is exploring porn healthy so that we can become more comfy with our own sexualities. Who knows? But as long as we talk to eachother and trust eachother - I think its ok
TeamCharlie at November 14, 2010 12:39 AM
LTW - "Predominantly straight girls will kiss each other at parties to get the men hot. Find me the straight boys who will do that."
Find me the women who would get hot over 2 guys kissing. I know a lot of guys are aroused by watching lesbian scenes (I'm not one of them), but it doesn't seem to work the other way around.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at November 14, 2010 4:25 PM
>>Find me the women who would get hot over 2 guys kissing.
Brokeback Mountain was hot stuff for a lot of straight women, William!
Jody Tresidder at November 14, 2010 4:36 PM
> hot stuff for a lot of straight women
Inexplicable.
I'm reminded of Treacher's list of similarly composed titles: My favorite was Dicksuck Isthmus.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 14, 2010 6:59 PM
Youder.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 14, 2010 9:07 PM
Never been a big fan of porn, but that's not to say I never watch it. In my 40's now, I probably watch just as much as I did in my 20's. But that really isn't very much. Maybe once a month on average, but it usually comes in spells, a couple or three times a year.
I've never had a desire to watch it when I was dating anyone, though. I did have a girlfriend once who liked to watch porn, and it made for a lot of fun. But I personally would much much rather be doing it than watching someone else. that's like being hungry and having to watch someone else eat a hot meal.
R at November 15, 2010 7:49 AM
I used to watch porn from early teen years to around my early 30's. It's been close to 7 years since I've deliberately logged on to view any porn.
Even seeing a glimpse of male gay porn gives me a deep seated revulsion bordering on nausea.
I don't get turned on by lesbian sex scenes, but did have interest in seeing two attractive, naked women.
I quit watching porn because I realized it was ruining my enjoyment of real sex with my wife.
The endless variety of different women who will do anything including degrading acts is hard for a normal woman to compete with...even if the competition is something she's unaware of and is only taking place within my own mind.
I think there are two kinds of men who eschew their wives/girlfriends for masturbating to porn: those who are no longer attracted to their wives due to weight and/or relationship issues...and those who become addicted to the quick fix and endless variety that porn has to offer - which makes there wives/girlfriends seem bland and boring by comparison.
My wife is still very attractive, so the first one wasn't my problem.
I still occasionally look at pictures of naked women...as a guy, I still have a basic drive for female variety and visual stimulation - but I consciously abstain from pictures and videos of sex acts - it's better for my real life sex life.
Anonymous69 at November 15, 2010 5:24 PM
It is very clear this I should try to do the same old things pertaining to that partially.
Anisha Kapur at June 1, 2011 6:27 PM
I am in mt early 20's and have been watching porn since we had internet in the home I guess 14. As an anonymous dude I will admit to watching all kinds of porn and the more I watch the more curious I get about different kinds of porn.
I have a few times be curious enough to watch other young male-on-male porn. I would have to say that as someone from Vancouver, Canada. I think 80 per cent of guys my age have watched bi/gay porn and got off on it. I personally will never admit this to anyone. But I am an exception because I do know lots of guys that aren't bi or gay have admitted to watching it. I also know TOTALLY "straight" guys that have actually tried soft core experimentation with other dudes. For guys in their early 20's in Today's society I don't think you can label any male Straight, Bi or Gay. Obviously the majority have a preference but in this City (Vancouver) in the in the year 2011 being a single Twenty Something, a hookup with either a male or female is common practice and no one really cares. Its sex, its fun, why not, everyone else is doing it. Tag teaming a girl is something I know any guy will admit to his friends and other males. And when you think about it there's only one female in the equation and 2 males so right there, I am sure there is going to be some form of touch body parts with another male that is also horny and no doubt curious
If I was horny enough and another attractive masculine male were to approach me for a NSA encounter I would probably try it.
twentysomethingdude at August 15, 2011 8:36 AM
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