The Goddess Writes: Well, first of all, I don't get my legal information from TSA goons, and come on...probable cause is...wearing underwire?

"Probable cause" is just that: probable. It's not "invariable" cause.

Though I have to say that's a silly rule: only search those who make the metal detector buzz. So, carry explosives and weapons not made of metal and you're in like Flynn.

I just finished a holiday in the USA. We had to do 4 domestic flights and one international (to go home). The only place we encountered rude TSA staff was LAX on the first domestic flight. LAX was also the only only place we had to go through the controversial full body scans. All other airports we went to (including JFK) only had metal detectors and we were not groped anywhere :)

Thoughts?

That "relaxing a bit" does not change the basic wrongs present in TSA even being there.

I've had pretty good experiences. Last summer, when I moved, my moving company refused to take my silverware and jewelry. (Too easy to lose or steal.) So I split the knives and forks up between my suitcases and crossed my fingers, and carried on the spoons, bowls, platters and jewelry. Obviously a huge backpack full of metal set off the metal detectors.

The TSA officers in Boston were super friendly, and let me unwrap everything and take my time wrapping it back up. They were very apologetic (especially since I was heavily pregnant). They chatted with me a bit. They were very professional. I also opted for the patdown instead of the scanner.

Come to think of it, if I were a terrorist I could totally take someone down with a backpack full of metal, but TSA assessed, correctly, that the pregnant matron with the silverware wasn't much of a threat.

We visited Boston in January. Obviously in Geneva and Zurich, where we switched, they are much more chill. They were very nice and admired the baby and didn't make me take my shoes off. On the way back I opted for the patdown and they were nice about it, it was a very brief pat. Once again, TSA correctly assessed that the babywearing lady probably wasn't going to take down a plane.

My thought is that I wish I'd known that you were speaking at OU - I suspect that maybe Professor Oakley might have been hanging around somewhere as well? I would have come to see that.

More notice, please.

llater,

llamas

Came out to the West Coast at the end of January. No gropes, beeps, or problems at DCA or Santa Barbara (which is a lovely place). Didn't see anybody else get hassled, either.

I fly between Orange County and San Jose once a month. The fully body scanners aren't in use in the Southwest terminal in Orange County. Sometimes they use them in San Jose but if you don't get in the line that feeds into them, you can bypass them. I haven't witnessed any pat downs in either airport though. Several years ago, I was flagged for extra screening bought a one way ticket an hour before a flight and paid cash - I must be a terrorist. The two ladies who performed my additional screening were very polite, professional and even had a sense of humor. They worked very quickly and had me on my way to the gate in no time and thanked me for being so nice. By the way, I didn't feel like I had just been sexually assaulted because as thorough as the search was they never touched me anywhere that only my SO and my OB are allowed to touch. That screening wasn't necessary but it was thorough so I don't know why they think they have to grope us now. What do they honestly think they are going to accomplish with these ridiculous searches? (Rhetorical question) It really is maddening and I'm uncertain how I'll handle it if and when I encounter someone wanting to perform that level of search on my person.

Sorry for the early morning ramblings...I'm only half a cup of coffee into my day.

My husband was on a flight last Sunday from Denver, Co to Dayton, Ohio. He never went through the metal detector but was selected for the full body scan. He said he saw no one ahead of him in that special line and they had not looked at his ticket either so there was no code on it that would have triggered a scan. It was very random which may be what they are going to. He said he went through the scanner at the same time they scanned his carry on baggage so it was not something suspicious that they saw in his carry on that triggered the scan.
He said he was also selected on the way back from Dayton Friday the 4th, but when he got there, they said you're ok, and he was allowed to bypass the scan.

The naked scanners are a strip search. They clearly show what your "obygen" or "doctor" see and touch. Hence, illegal. The police cannot do this to prisoners, and it certainly violates the 4th amendment against warrentless search of your person.

I am not letting my daughters grow up in the US where the government thinks it can let strangers bypass the 4th amendment and see them nude, just so they can fly.

The problem with the gropings after an alarm is that people with metal in their bodies (elderly with knee and hip replacement, pacemakers, etc.) get touched on their genitals 100% of the time. If you don't have these issues, good for you and me, but it "profiles" a specific segment of our population.

I am fine with legal means which includes metal detectors, and wanding for metal, not groping. The FACT is that ZERO airline passengers, on US domestic flights, have set off bombs in the last 48 years. The last airline passenger bomb was in 1962, and it was a dynamite bomb setoff in a lavatory. That is 0 in 48 years.

Also, just 3-4 weeks ago, a TSA agent carried a gun 5 times through the naked scanners in Dallas/Ft.Worth. The risk is lower than your chances of getting shot while grocery shopping in Phoenix, the illegal naked scanners don't work, and we should stop letting the terrorists win by allowing the TSA to continue their curtailing of our rights.

I haven't flown since 2009, but Husband has been to Las Vegas and Orlando (from Austin, connecting in DFW) in the last month or so. He hasn't been body-scanned OR groped... But says he can't wait for it. He wants to opt for the pat-down, and ask if he can request a specific screener...

Jeff, titanium replacement parts don't trigger the metal detectors. I have 2 rods and 6 screws in my back and I don't trigger it. My mom also has a knee and hip replacement and she doesn't trigger it either.

I flew back and forth to Chicago a couple of months ago. We were a large group. No one was hassled, and I observed no patdowns. Can't remember if I saw anyone being scanned.

"I spoke to her class! And we had a nerdathon all weekend, and then she came to dinner with Gregg and Elmore and me."

Sorry I missed it.

You should have stuck around a couple more days so you could go hear Mark Steyn's annual lecture at Hillsdale College. It promises to be a doozy!

llater,

llamas

eeew. Did another person actually touch you?

When I sent my 12-year old nephew home to Tucson this past summer, the security was a complete joke. They actually made a senior man who had to be pushing ninety get out of his wheelchair so they could pat him down. They even tested his wheelchair for residues. The poor daughter was trying desperately to keep him steady, and the security people weren't exactly in a hurry to finish. On top of that, we had to ship my nephew's plastic light saber back because security didn't think it was safe. They also confiscated his little rubber ball and his sunny-delight drink.

????????????

Jeff- I'm sorry to report you are wrong about your little analogy between prisoners and people flying on airplanes.

When you go to jail or prison, you strip naked, bend over and spread your ass cheeks and cough. Pretty sure that is a tad more invasive than a scanner or someone patting you down.

Amy, you may have seen this before but just in case, thought you'd be quite interested: A 2-page primer outlining passenger rights vs. the TSA's.

http://saizai.com/tsa_rights.pdf

When we went through the full body scans at LAX they were the only option. Normal metal detectors were not in use.

Also worth noting is that every single time I fly (in Australia and the US) I am selected to be tested for explosives. Obviously the tall blond blue eyed Aussie female is high on the likely to be a bomber list :)

One thing that drove me crazy flying in the US was having to take my shoes off for screening.

'"Probable cause" is just that: probable. It's not "invariable" cause.'

OK, I'll bite. We can guess that "probability". What do you suppose is the percentage of people who make the scanner beep, who turn out to indeed be terrorists? How many terrorists have they caught with these procedures? Perhaps one a year? Over 750 million passengers fly on US airlines each year. If we assume generously that 1 in 100 make the scanner beep, that means the percentage probability that a "beep" will lead to catching a terrorist, is 0.000013% (1 in 7.5 million)

That is "probable" cause? There is no way to stretch the definition of "probable" that badly.