Protecting Us Out Of The Drugs We Need: Why There's A Ritalin Shortage
I call Ritalin my "concentration vitamin." I was diagnosed with ADHD about 15 years ago, and prescribed the generic for Ritalin, which I take to help myself focus when I write.
Basically, I sometimes feel like I have 16 squirrels in my brain running off in 16 different directions and Ritalin makes most of them sit down at their little desks and shut the hell up so I can think about what I need to think about.
By the way, I don't consider ADHD a "disorder," but they have to call it that to give you pills. Martin Seligman talks about how ridiculous it is that psychology and psychiatry are largely targeted to "curing" people who are sick, and not helping functioning, productive people become even higher functioning and more productive -- or as Seligman puts it in his terrific new book, to Flourish.
So, a week or so ago, I got to Kaiser's 24-hour pharmacy in the middle of the night (best time to go). Most annoyingly, I learned that Ritalin is in extremely short supply across the country. They told that they could only fill one month's worth of my prescription -- while charging me my full co-pay.
Of course, that charge is in addition to the time cost of needing to get my prescription from my doctor and drive to Kaiser again in a month -- no big deal for many people but a big deal for me. (I'm writing seven days a week these days, day into night, and I try to minimize all incursions of chores and errands into my life. As I like to joke, I don't even cook; I heat.)
Regarding the Ritalin shortage, it seems the Drug War-ocrats are so worried that people will make meth that the DEA has been capping the supply of ingredients needed to manufacture Ritalin. Utterly disgusting.
Also very disturbingly, when I asked to buy Mucinex-D (now kept behind the counter), I had to hand over my driver's license, and have my name and license number written down...although I have all my teeth and clear skin and no history dealing anything but my writing.
Need for probable cause, anyone? We're seeing the end of privacy and the continual gnawing away at our rights in general.
By the way, I noticed after I bought the Mucinex-D that they've lessened the dosage of one of the active ingredients, pseudoephedrine (from 120 mg., from a box I had from last year, to 60). Also, it's now outlandishly expensive -- nearly $1 per pill. I don't remember whether it was that pricey in the past. Anyone have any idea?
There is a version of Mucinex-D right on the store shelves at my drugstore -- now made with with a less effective ingredient than pseudoephedrine. Handy!
I bought the Mucinex-D because I discovered, when I had a cold a month or so ago, that the pseudoephedrine seems to really increase my focus when I'm writing. I can even take a little less Ritalin if I take it, but I'm afraid to take it every day.
I'm concerned as to whether there are any longterm side-effects from it that I should worry about, from the pseudoephedrine and/or the 600 mg. of guaifenesin that's part of the formula. (I like Mucinex-D because it's 12-hour release -- pretty much the length of my usual writing/work day.)
I'd like to ask my shrink about whether this stuff is safe for me when I see him in June, but I'm kind of afraid that it'll flag me as some druggie when I just want to put more time into writing my book and less time into trying to catch the squirrels in my head and shove them into their little seats.
I spoke to my doctor ex-boyfriend a few weeks ago (he called on his way to Africa) and he said he'd look up pseudoephedrine for me when he gets back. My sister, who's studying biology, thinks it's a big mistake for me to take. If I'm lucky, I'll run into somebody chatty at some cocktail party who's really versed in this.
Crazy that it's come to this.
I'm so sorry people are making and selling meth. It's a really destructive drug. But, hey, U.S. government, I just want to write my column and my book and blog and maybe do some TV and radio. Stay the hell out of my rights and freedoms and my pill bottles.
Amy, a couple of thoughts:
- First, as I understand it, doctors cannot break patient confidentiality to put you on some sort of "druggie" list - who are they going to report you to? Of course, given the rapid deterioration of our rights, maybe I am mistakes about this...
- So second: you go to France a lot. Might I suggest that you find out how these things work in France? They don't have a "war on drugs", and are likely to be a lot more reasonable. As long as you have a doctor's note, customs shouldn't stop you from bringing medications back with you.
a_random_guy at May 9, 2011 1:52 AM
The idea that France is the perfect world, and the perfect world for rights, is just wildly funny.
This country has the best set of protections for human rights -- we've just let them degrade, especially recently. We have sheep at the TSA, sheep signing these forms to get their drugs with nary a peep out of them.
And what my doctor could do is write into my medical record that I am considering taking this, making it hard for me to continue getting Ritalin. One possibility. I'm sure there are others.
I'm concerned as to whether taking this will cause negative longterm changes in my brain or sinuses. I'd like a little professional help in that direction. Seems crazy that I can't trust my doctor thanks to the drug-a-noia.
Believe me, just getting Ritalin is nuts. Triplicate forms and all sorts of problems and pitfalls. No refills, etc. I'm
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 5:23 AM
Also, my boyfriend lives in Los Angeles and works in Detroit every few weeks. I'd really like to keep him in my life.
His idea of commuting to see me involves driving his car across town, not spending thousands of dollars on Air France flights.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 5:26 AM
I used to take pseudoephedrine like candy because of allergies. There used to be a limit on the number of boxes that you could buy, and I remember being stopped at the cash register because I was buying "too many" boxes of pseudoephedrine. Apparently, middle aged lawyers in khakis are dangerous meth dealers.
I've also been told by the pharmacy that there's a limit on the number of syringes I can buy. My doctor gave me a prescription of vitamin B12 that I have to inject, so I need to buy syringes. They're apparently the same ones diabetics use for insulin. And I can only buy one package of 20 at a time, which is a pain.
@Amy: If the pseudoephedrine in the Mucinex-D helps you, why not try just plain old generic pseudoephedrine? I think I pay about $3 for a box of 48 pills at Target, so it's pretty cheap.
TestyTommy at May 9, 2011 5:26 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2117305">comment from TestyTommyI bought that -- still have a pack -- but the extended release seems to be helpful. I should experiment again with the generic I bought. Maybe it's in my mind that I need extended release and I could just take the generic a few times a day. I wrote to the company (that makes the generic) but they are apparently afraid to answer -- no response.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 5:31 AM
And question, TestyTommy -- did you have any acclimation to the drug when you took it (or other changes), and how long did you take it?
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 5:33 AM
If enough people make life unpleasant for their legislators, things will change. Otherwise, you will get more of the same.
MarkD at May 9, 2011 5:51 AM
I took the pseudoephedrine for sinus headaches caused by allergies. I was suffering from undiagnosed celiac disease at the time, so my body was pretty messed up and not a good general indicator for other people.
Now I just take pseudoephedrine occasionally in the Fall during ragweed season. But I take it only for sinus congestion. The only side-effect I noticed is that it makes me a little jittery -- I think it's a mild stimulant. I just thought it might be worth a try for you since the Mucinex is so expensive.
TestyTommy at May 9, 2011 5:55 AM
It's not just making meth. Teens are ODing on cold meds. My friend's 15 yr old son did this last fall, and almost died. He took a whole box of Robitussin pills. Now, you have to show ID to buy most of them. I had a bad cold a few weeks ago, and asked my 17 yr old daughter to pick me up some Nyquil, but the pharmacy wouldn't let her purchase it because she's underage.
What is it all coming to? Haven't we lost the concept of personal responsibility and...well, stupid people kill themselves?
My friend's son swiped the box of Robitussin anyway. These rules didn't keep him from getting it. (Fortunately, he's improved after some counseling and is no longer getting high and/or trying to kill himself).
lovelysoul at May 9, 2011 7:03 AM
I used to take pseudoephedrine for allergies.
It's a decongestant and works pretty well for most people. Unfortunately, I cannot take it any more because of hypertension (high BP).
As far as more govt BS, does anyone actually think the restrictions making it a PITA for normal folks to buy the drugs they've always bought actually deter those buying them for nefarious purposes?
Just like Fatherland Security is doing nothing for us except making us look stupid and opressive to the rest of the world.
DrCos at May 9, 2011 7:05 AM
"As far as more govt BS, does anyone actually think the restrictions making it a PITA for normal folks to buy the drugs they've always bought actually deter those buying them for nefarious purposes?"
Excellent point. The restrictions haven't slowed down the meth cookers for a second. They don't use pseudoephridriene anymore; they now make the stuff using industrial chemicals that are easy to steal.
The drug-shortage issue is a much bigger issue than just this. There are suddenly shortages of all kinds of drugs, many of then not at all related to stimulants. Several antibiotics are now in short supply. And go read the postings over at Dr. Helen's where she has had difficulty getting her heart medicine. I think what we're looking at is the endgame of price controls on drugs, and government threats of more of the same. Let's all say it together: When you artificially limit prices, you create shortages. Those of us who remember the gas lines of the 1970s know how that works.
Cousin Dave at May 9, 2011 7:53 AM
I buy syringes for B12 injections and have been for the last 35 years. Way back then you needed a Rx to even buy one. Now the law says you can buy as many as you want. Recently a clerk jerk tried to limit me to three. I asked to speak to the Pharmacist who told the clerk I could buy his entire supply if I wanted to.
Roger at May 9, 2011 8:01 AM
There are some interesting things going on at pharmacies these days and not all of it is because of the drug laws. There seem to be shortages of many drugs, not just Ritalin.
I take Synthroid (not a drug on anyone's list for abuse) and I have noticed that the Drs and pharmacies, now don't fill a prescription for more than 30 days. I used to be able to get a hundred pills at a time
I think I know the main reason for this.
The pharmacies charge a set fee for every prescription they fill. It does not matter how many pills/ syringes they issue, so for example for Synthroid, my insurance covers most of it.
It would be 39 bucks for 30 pills (ridiculous markup for a drug that has been around for over 50 years)without the insurance, but with insurance it ends up being a little over 6. Part of that cost is the set fee that the pharmacy is allowed to charge every time they fill a prescription.
So. do the math, ladies and gentlemen. If the pharmacy gets to charge that set fee three, four or five times in a hundred days, as opposed to once, how much more money are they making?
A secondary benefit is that most pharmacies are co located with businesses which sell other non medical items. They want you there as often as possible in the hope that you will make impulse purchases while you are in their store.
FOLLOW THE MONEY :-)
Isabel1130 at May 9, 2011 8:28 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2117999">comment from Isabel1130Someone just emailed me this:
But I looked up (on Google Scholar) pseudoephedrine + ear + eardrum and really didn't come up with anything.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 8:49 AM
Well if there's an upside to this, perhaps the Ritalin "shortage" -- deliberate or otherwise -- will slow down the criminal dosing of children with this destructive drug.
peterike at May 9, 2011 9:46 AM
I have a family of six and when one of us gets a cold, we all get a cold. Naturally we have to get enough cold medicine for everyone, but the daily limits on pseudoephedrine purchases mean dragging my sick butt to the pharmacy several times during the course of the cold to get enough for everyone. And the weekly limits mean that if a cold lasts longer than a few days, we'll run out and won't be able to get any more unless my sick husband also hauls his butt to the store. I have to get pseudoephedrine when I'm not sick and stockpile it so that when we all get sick, there's enough medicine.
Wacky Hermit at May 9, 2011 9:50 AM
One thing to consider Amy, is the question of toxic load on you liver, taking stuff like this long term. sudaphed is an ingredient in meth, right? What is ratalin but meth in a controlled dose? [I know there are differences in the drugs] They perform similar functions in stimulation for you, but stacking them may not be so good, espescially in clearing them from your system. Perhaps your best bet is to talk to a pharmacologist... Also? Dr. Eades seems to speak much about liver functions, so I'd think he would have some connections with specialists where you might ask such a question. Perhaps they would also know of pharmachologists as well.
Oh, and? All this garbage is under the patriot act. go figure.
SwissArmyD at May 9, 2011 9:50 AM
Thanks for writing this. I love the squirrel visual. I haven't been able to get my "concentration vitamin" - Vyvanse - in several weeks. Taking Adderall, a poor substitute. It's maddening as an adult, but I feel even more for the children with 50 little squirrels running around while they are supposed to be sitting nicely at their desks for 7 hours a day at school. People who don't have mental health issues just don't get it. I can't force myself to concentrate. Children with ADD *really* can't force their brains to be calm. My brain is different and I need a controlled substance to deal with it. Quit treating me like a criminal and quit making my slightly chaotic life even more difficult. Oh, and quit judging me. You. Don't. Understand.
Debbie at May 9, 2011 9:54 AM
Oh, yes - a couple months ago I couldn't get bupropion XL for love nor money. The Walgreens said they were out, and so were all the other Walgreens. I'm going to shift my refil schedule (within their limits) until I'm supplied far enough ahead to last a couple months next time this happens. And the same for all my other drugs.
Ellen at May 9, 2011 9:57 AM
I don't think kids are being poisoned with Adderall or any of the other medications for ADD. My dad was so ADD he flickered, and he self-medicated with Lucky Strikes. Not surprisingly, he died of lung cancer. But I take the generic and it's fine. I wouldn't bother with OTC stuff.
KateC at May 9, 2011 9:59 AM
Ritalin has more and better studies than any other psychiatric drug because it is the first psychiatric drug. There is a current, ongoing longitudinal study on the life effects of ritalin and other stimulant drugs for people who really have attention issues.
The very robust finding is that people who have ADD/ADHD and take the medicine have lower divorce rates, lower incarceration rates, lower car insurance rates, pay more taxes, and go to drug rehab less often.
Ritalin is in no way a dangerous drug. If you care about science that it.
Trey
Trey at May 9, 2011 10:01 AM
When my son was diagnosed with ADD, it was hard for me to put him on meds because there's this message from society that kids don't really have ADD and that its just parents who don't want to be parents. The positive things I saw in my son once he began medication were amazing and I swore to never give a crap what "people" think again after that. We had to adjust medications and doses for awhile before we found what worked and we've had to adjust as he got older, but my son would have struggled terribly without it.
As far as supply goes, I noticed a few years back the doctor was not allowed to write a 90 day supply anymore. Not only that, but my son now had to go n for a monthly blood pressure check to get his Rx. Instead of paying a co-pay to the doctor and pharmacy every three months, I now had to pay monthly not to mention the time spent going to the doctor and pharmacy. My other son was diagnosed as well so now its double. Thankfully I do have insurance so while I complain about extra co-pays, I wonder how people without insurance do it.
Kristen at May 9, 2011 10:16 AM
You know what, bullshit. If you need Ritalin to function, you are fucked anyway. Maybe getting off the crutch psychosomatic placebos will get to really focus. This entire column is disgusting and misguided. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for you. Most of your tripe is narcissistic self-obsession. Worry about others and quit whining and focusing on your own little petty gripes. Jesus fuck.
jones at May 9, 2011 10:21 AM
I have bad allergies and used to pop a ton of pseudoephridriene.
The pitiful drug war attempts only delayed meth cookers for about a month- then they figured out how to go around it (I understand they bring in more from Mexico)
I recently read an opinion piece in the NYT that said that the current pseudoephridriene restrictions were not enough- and that prescriptions are needed. Great- it will cost me 10X more to buy- I'll have to go to the doc's
Prescriptions have certainly done a great job with oxycodone
Mastro at May 9, 2011 10:26 AM
There is not a Ritalin shortage. There is a Ritalin scandal.
When my son was in grade school, the school attempted to have him classified as ADD/HD. Was my son active? Yes. Was he a handful? Yes. What he was not was ADD or HD, much less the combinatation.
When I got the statistics on Ritalin us in the grade school, it turned out that 24% of the children in the school were taking the drug. The percentage that were boys? All of them.
The CDC defines an epidemic as a disease or syndrome that affects 3% or more of a population. That 25% of the children in an otherwise normal appearing suburban school district are drugged is not an epidemic. It is scandal, pure and simple. The teachers and admonistration cannot handle chldren and so they drug them.
By the way, my son is now a sophomore at Princeton, drug free and doing just fine thank you very much.
Robert at May 9, 2011 10:33 AM
I recall some press a few years back to the effect that large pharmaceutical firms were buying up the rights to a number of generic copies of their creations. The issue was that, with the big companies taking control of the alternatives, competition could be cut, and the company would once again have a monopoly that could be manipulated for increased profits. I wonder if that is part of what we're seeing here.
Capn Dan at May 9, 2011 10:34 AM
TO: Amy et al.
RE: Heh
We need ritalin like a 'fish needs a bicycle'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The 'drugging' of America.....]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:42 AM
P.S. What are the demographics on the application of ritalin?
How many want to wager AGAINST it being predominately 'males' get it. And at an age where they cannot reject its administration?
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:44 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2118596">comment from RobertRobert, if you don't need Ritalin, it doesn't act to slow you down, but to speed you up. It's speed. I tried cocaine once in my life (in 1995 with Roy Walford at the Chelsea hotel) and I was surprised. I thought it was supposed to jack me up. I didn't really feel anything.
Oh, and by the way, Roy was an example of the notion that "all drug use is not abuse." He occasionally used coke for fun, but he mostly used it when he needed to stay up all night writing a research paper. (Just say NERDS to drugs!)
Roy is dead now, by the way, and he'd not only not care that I'm telling you about his drug use, he'd probably be happy about it. He always worked hard to not be too nerdy-seeming.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 10:44 AM
TO: All
RE: Is Amy a—HORROR—'Sexist'?
There are other drugs that are in high demand, but low supply now. More than likely, in my honestly held personal opinion, as a result of Obamacare implementation.
So why does Amy pick on Ritalin?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:47 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2118625">comment from jonesYou know what, bullshit. If you need Ritalin to function, you are fucked anyway.
Really? We live in evolutionarily novel times. It is evolutionarily novel (not something we evolved for) to sit all day paying highly focused attention at a computer.
I can write without Ritalin -- I wrote this blog item at midnight, with no pharmaceutical help.
But, why is it wrong or somehow shameful to use a substance that makes me more focused and productive?
And if you dislike me and my writing so wholeheartedly, what are you doing here?
And while we're on psychological problems -- seems like you have some anger issues. There's a book for that: How To Control Your Anger Before It Controls You (See all Psychology & Counseling Books)
And wow, seems you got your wish -- I'm thinking about others.
Must be stressful to go through life filled with rage -- if your comment to a rather benign post is any indication.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 10:49 AM
"The drug-shortage issue is a much bigger issue than just this. There are suddenly shortages of all kinds of drugs, many of then not at all related to stimulants. Several antibiotics are now in short supply. And go read the postings over at Dr. Helen's where she has had difficulty getting her heart medicine. I think what we're looking at is the endgame of price controls on drugs, and government threats of more of the same. Let's all say it together: When you artificially limit prices, you create shortages. Those of us who remember the gas lines of the 1970s know how that works. "
This.
Paranoia about the drug war may be emotionally satisfying, and I'll allow as sometimes it's more than just paranoia. My own beef is with property seizures without due process. But the drug war is not the reason for the drug shortages.
Vader at May 9, 2011 10:52 AM
TO: Trey
RE: Sooooo....
The very robust finding is that people who have ADD/ADHD and take the medicine have lower divorce rates, lower incarceration rates, lower car insurance rates, pay more taxes, and go to drug rehab less often. -- Trey
Ritalin is the drug-of-choice to 'pacify' the population. Sounds like an Orwellian government dream come true.
When was the last time you watched Serenity?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You too can become a mindless moron.]
P.S. I was prescribed a statin by my GP some years ago. After six months on it, I found:
[1] I lost energy.
[2] I could no longer write computer code.
[3] I was having trouble remembering names of people and common household items.
[4] I began speaking like Yoda....
If Yoda in Force so stong. How come Yoda in proper order, words cannot put?
I STOPPED taking the drug. It took me several years to get back to the point I could write computer code.
I've mentioned this to a number of friends and associates who are on statins. They report similar results. But they all thought it was because of advancing age. I told them they were very wrong.....
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:55 AM
The DEA maintains production quotas on precursor chemicals. They estimate demand and the drug companies fight over who gets what portion of the available legal supply. If your drug isn't that profitable, guess what.
The problem is the production quotas. These companies could spin up production at any time if they wouldn't get arrested for it.
DEA drug production quotas are published in the Federal Register so you can just google up the numbers.
TMLutas at May 9, 2011 10:58 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2118665">comment from Chuck PeltoPer Dr. Michael Eades, "Statins treat lab values, but not much else."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgBIOpYpw0I
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/
I'm on deadline - you can go on there and search for "statins"
"So why does Amy pick on Ritalin?"
Because this is a blog item not a book on all the drugs out there and all the issues involved.
Here are a few of my previous posts covering statins:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/mt4/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=2&search=statins
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 10:59 AM
TO: Amy
RE: Again....
Because this [Ritalin] is a blog item not a book on all the drugs out there and all the issues involved. -- Amy Alkon
I'm not asking about ALL the drugs that are in 'high demand/short supply'.
I'm asking WHY you picked on Ritalin? It is, based on my understanding, administered more to males than to females.
That's something of an 'indicator' of sexism, the selection of this particular drug over so many others. Others that are more life-preserving than something that suppresses the human spirit of men.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 11:03 AM
P.S. Don't need to 'go there' and research statins. I've LIVED statins. It wasn't a 'good time'.
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 11:05 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2118707">comment from Chuck PeltoSexism? Huh?
Chuck, I'm taking Ritalin and so I had an experience related to that, and wrote about it.
I'm not interested in "(suppressing) the human spirit of men" or anyone -- just getting my writing done.
You've snuck back under a new IP address, but if you ruin every discussion with a comment-string of immature inanities, I have no problem offing you again.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 11:08 AM
Huh, chuckles found his way over from PJM.
"As far as supply goes, I noticed a few years back the doctor was not allowed to write a 90 day supply anymore."
So what about people like me, whose prescription coverage won't pay for more than 2 months of a long-term med at a pharmacy, after that you have to do mail order for 90 day supplies or pay yourself?
momof4 at May 9, 2011 11:09 AM
Amy, I know you don't need any help but I have to back you on the Ritalin thing. Of course, that's after I laughed at how easily you dismissed Jones and his ridiculous argument. I have two sons on a stimulant to help with ADD. They are incredibly smart kids but had struggles with focusing their attention. It was a struggle for me to medicate them because I was sensitive to the argument that boys are overmedicated. If I didn't see such positive results in my sons, they would have been off long ago. If they needed glasses to read, I'd certainly get them and if there is a medication that can help them focus and be productive, I'm going to give them that.
Kristen at May 9, 2011 11:15 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2118742">comment from momof4Chuckles got banned here a few years ago after I got about 20 requests from other commenters (and I'm not exaggerating) begging me to do it. Other than those who come here as part of a mob to wreck the comments section here, it's really, really hard to get banned here. Speech is free, and individual assholes are welcomed. Hijacking and ruining every discussion as a way to preen one's ego is not welcomed.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 11:17 AM
It's finals time at college. Unfortunately, many kids are taking these drugs nowadays in order to pull all-nighters. I just heard about this from a bunch of concerned college moms.
http://www.azcentral.com/families/education/articles/0801back-ritalin-ON.html?&wired
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100254163
Concerned at May 9, 2011 11:19 AM
Amy:
"Seems crazy that I can't trust my doctor thanks to the drug-a-noia."
Seems crazy to me, too. I'm not afraid to tell my Dr. anything. If you're ever in the PNW, I'll set you up.
Steve Daniels at May 9, 2011 11:20 AM
Amy - Try the generic version of Excedrin instead of the sudafed. It might work the same way for you, and is a little safer. (Unless you have stomach problems w/aspirin.)
amy at May 9, 2011 11:26 AM
Well, it took a while of searching, but I found this article:
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/sudafed/loss+of+hearing
Looking at both Sudafed and Actifed (the older brand), it appears that approximately 0.25% of Side Effects reported for pseudoephedrine are Hearing Loss. At least, the Side Effects reported at that site.
WayneB at May 9, 2011 11:28 AM
TO: Amy
RE: On It
Okay. I can appreciate the first-hand experience aspect. I withdraw the allegation of potential 'sexism'. It's a hot-button, vis-a-vis Ritalin and how it seems to be disproportionately applied to young men because the 'teachers' in the vaunted American public education system—predominately female—can't 'manage'.
Thanks for the clarification. I missed it in the initial article.
My apologies.....
RE: Ritalin
As I stated, the administration of this particular 'mind-altering' drug seems to be mostly to young men. And, as Trey pointed out earlier, it seems to be the optimal drug for 'pacifying' a population.
Trey's report makes it an even more 'interesting' drug. Not so much from the perspective of shortage...although if you want to get into some interesting C-Theory, one could go there too...as much as to WHY?
Ritalin does not prolong the life of people who have some form of debilitating or long-term health-hazard condition, e.g., childhood on-set diabetes. I understand such drugs are becoming harder to obtain as well. Why IS that, becomes the question?
I saw some thoughts on precursors for various illicit drugs, but Ritalin? What's used to make Ritalin that can be used to make some form of recreational drug?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 11:36 AM
Amy,
There is something bigger going on here. Read the sub text under the spin on this article from WashPo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/shortages-of-key-drugs-endanger-patients/2011/04/26/AF1aJJVF_story.html?hpid=z2
I recently found out that the FDA has stopped production of a very common compound for migraines. I'd taken it off and on for 20 years or so and it was a common first line attack for that problem. It seems that the FDA has suddenly decided that on component was never tested for migraines and since the drug is long past the time it can be sold as a prescription (pricey) med, the manufacturer (rightly) has decided not to pursue the issue.
I'm guessing that if we probed many of these "shortages" we'd find that the FDA is systematically discarding drugs for which Obamacare would have had to pay and would rather not. I also wonder which Pharm companies will be hurt the most by these regulations.
Just thinking...
firsthat at May 9, 2011 11:38 AM
TO: momof4
RE: [OT] PJM
Huh, chuckles found his way over from PJM. -- momof4
Care to explain that?
Go on. Provide the some information on the 'why'. [NOTE: I've preserved it for 'posterity', and for encountering people like you.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 11:40 AM
"So what about people like me, whose prescription coverage won't pay for more than 2 months of a long-term med at a pharmacy, after that you have to do mail order for 90 day supplies or pay yourself?"
I'm in NY, Momof4, and it changed a few years back. I don't know how its done in other states. I felt that it had more to do with getting more co-pays. Mine are $5 for an RX and $15 for a doctor's visit. With two kids it comes to $40 every month instead of every three months. I know there are many who pay a lot more, but why did they change it to monthly? I was told to avoid prescription abuse, but it doesn't make sense because I still get them. It just costs more.
Kristen at May 9, 2011 11:40 AM
It's finals time at college. Unfortunately, many kids are taking these drugs nowadays in order to pull all-nighters. I just heard about this from a bunch of concerned college moms.
It's true. Eldest daughter is a freshman at a local college, and she told me at least 80% of the students she knows on campus are using Ritalin or something similar to help them concentrate.
Flynne at May 9, 2011 11:42 AM
TO: FirstHat
RE: Migraines?
Try ginko biloba. My wife doesn't have full-blown migraines. She gets 'auras'.
Nothing she took helped.
I suggested the ginko because of a report I picked up. I was taking it to improve cognition after the statin experience.
She now takes it whenever she has a bout. It works.
Might work for you, too.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God made the Earth and everything therein for Man. Our problem has been figuring out how to use it all....properly.]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 11:50 AM
Amy, that story about Sudafed and eardrums is a total urban legend. It may give you stomach problems and usually makes everyone a little tachychardic (speeds up your heart), but ALL medications have side effect.
And to you people out there giving Amy shit about taking Ritalin...y'all just need to shut the f*ck up. As a nurse, I can testify that there are people out there who do need ADHD medication, depression medication, bi-polar medication, etc. These people are NOT making their conditions up, and 99% of the folks I encounter who are on the meds would give a lot to NOT be on these meds.
And how nice of you to judge. I'm sure you have NO personal issues at all...
UW Girl at May 9, 2011 11:52 AM
This pseudoephedrine damaging ear drums business is news to me. It's been found to help prevent middle ear barotrauma (damage caused by changes in pressure, to which divers and some air travelers are susceptible) and is often recommended for this purpose. Lots of studies out there on this, can't see any documenting harm to ears instead, but then that's just me & Dr Google.
Martin at May 9, 2011 12:02 PM
TO: FirstHat
RE: C-Theory v. Intelligence Ops — Systematic Elimination (Part 1)
I'm guessing that if we probed many of these "shortages" we'd find that the FDA is systematically discarding drugs for which Obamacare would have had to pay and would rather not. -- FirstHat
Correlates well with what I've been observing. My question is, "WHY Ritalin?"
A great C-Theory would be—based on Trey's report of how much it looks like the perfect 'pacifier'—that the government wants ALL of US to have it....at the time of their choosing.
RE: C-Theory v. Intelligence Ops — Qui Bono (Part 2)
I also wonder which Pharm companies will be hurt the most by these regulations. -- FirstHat
Maybe THIS ARTICLE could help explain that aspect.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-
world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control....
Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent. -- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets]
P.S. Please pardon my heightened [spider] sense of
paranoia. But I've been around too long and trained too well NOT to recognize patterns of behavior.....
chuck pelto at May 9, 2011 12:05 PM
TO: Amy
RE: Just a 'Suggestion'
If you can't find Ritalin. OR, better still, if you'd like to find something else that isn't nearly as expensive and has few—if any—side effects.....
Please look into homeopathy.
I think I've mentioned it before. It's VERY effective. I can squelch an attack of acute gout within 15 minutes with it....if I can identify the symptoms properly.
Had an attack coming on two weeks ago. Recognized the pain in the foot with chills. Took Lycopodium. Fifteen minutes later, the pain was gone.
Works for kitchen-accident burns too....Cantharis. As well as for numerous other things, e.g., wake-up in the middle of the night with 'busy brain' and can't get back to sleep...Coffea Cruda.
Look into it.
What have you got to lose?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God made the Earth.....you know the rest....]
P.S. How much does a month-supply of Ritalin cost?
How does that compare with $5-7?
If it doesn't work...your out a pittance. If it DOES work!!!!
P.P.S. Be aware. You need to try to understand ALL the symptoms you're experiencing. For example, there are 47 different materia medica that work on gout. However, you have to be sensitive to the other symptoms you're experiencing, e.g., the 'chills' On another occasion, I had a gout attack and lycopodium DIDN'T WORK. But I wasn't experiencing 'chills'. I had to endure 24 hours of 16-penny nails in my foot before I recognized the secondary symptom that correlated well with a materia medica.....a tongue that looked like someone had painted it with white-wash.
Fifteen minutes after taking that materia medica, the pain was GONE!!!!
The same may be true with your situation.....you need to look at your body and mentality in a holistic manner.
Hope that helps....
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 12:15 PM
My son has ADHD inattentive type, which means no hyperactivity. So when he can't study he's not just a boy being a boy, he's a boy who can't control the buzzing in his head. Daytrana and then Vyvanse have been instrumental (along with lots of tutoring for his other disabilities) in helping him keep his head above water in school.
I keep hearing that everybody in grade school has an ADHD diagnosis and everybody is taking stimulants but I just don't see it. The special ed census in my son's grade is about 5%, including a couple of kids with physical disabilities. I'd expect it to be a lot higher if the diagnosis (and meds) were being abused.
ronbo at May 9, 2011 12:27 PM
@Robert: If your son was acting out in grade school and is at Princeton now, it's likely that he needed more stimulation and challenge. That is exactly what I went through, including the Princeton part.
It's outrageous that your son was subjected to a lazy or poorly trained diagnostician, but that isn't the fault of the meds, which can do wonders for kids that need them.
ronbo at May 9, 2011 12:36 PM
What it comes down to is the government harming innocent people--those who need certain drugs--because the government cannot do its job correctly: preventing criminals from dealing in meth.
There is no logical reason to punish people who need a drug for a disability, because others use it illegally or because still others are prescribed it erroneously.
I'm 52 years old. Six years ago, I was finally diagnosed with ADHD. Ten minutes after my first dose of ritalin, the world unfolded for me. For the first time, I experienced what life was like for normal people. (I use the Vonnegut science fiction story "Harrison Bergeron" to explain it to people.)
Unfortunately, my previous 46 years of frustration, failure, fear, and anxiety are much of the time too much to overcome. The struggle is endless, and at times too much.
Parents, if your children are recommended to go on Ritalin, DO IT! If it's a mistaken diagnosis, you'll find out soon enough. If it's not, then you'll be saving their lives.
Joe Y at May 9, 2011 12:37 PM
I say go for it. I've been self medicating for years (clean liver, low blood pressure, Perfect EKG, etc) with diet pills like "super green tea", Redbull, No-Doz. Mucinex-D is a good idea. I'm medicated now but I use a combo of Yerbe Mate (South American jungle tea with pretty good levels of caffeine and theobromine. Chai flavored with some half and half.) and buffered caffeine pills on occassion. I hate coffee.
Why? Because it seems that every time I go to a pharmacy: I need another preapproval from my insurance, I accidentally had the prescription 1 week in my possession instead of taking it immediately there, they need to special order it because all ritalin and dexedrine users they know have switched to adderall, I need a new prescipt if I switch to Adderall... it goes on. And that didn't include the monthly trip to the doc.
ADD people don't do the best with paperwork, hassels, and frustration without being medicated. I have to hoard meds by supplimenting my meds for the 1-2 weeks it always seems to take to get my new meds. I've talked to my doc about it and he says it's fine.
I also know that adults will usually get a very upset stomach before they OD on OTC stimulants.
If it works, it work. Occassional self-med is fine plus mild self med can help with transitions to non-medicated states. (I get headaches sometimes when I get off my meds.)
I did my bachelors unmedicated,and my master's medicated. I can function both ways but I work, sleep, and remember details (big pic person) better medicated. Self-med is usually kinda in between. 18 years since I was diagnosed at age 12.
Miss E at May 9, 2011 12:45 PM
I thought Ritalin was from the original Star Trek series.
BOTU at May 9, 2011 12:56 PM
TO: ronbo
RE: Census v. Abuse
I'd expect it to be a lot higher if the diagnosis (and meds) were being abused. -- ronbo
There's a report from the college-level community that indicates 80% of the people someones daughter knows are taking Ritalin.
Looks like a need for more 'investigation'...between your report and theirs.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth....it's out there....somewhere....]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 1:02 PM
"Please look into homeopathy."
Know how I can tell you're not a regular here? Before you give Amy any more suggestions on things like that, I invite you to search her blog real quick for her thoughts on homeopathy. As is the nature of her writing, she shares her opinion... definitively.
cornerdemon at May 9, 2011 1:06 PM
I did, some time back, ask a doctor why he would only issue one-month prescriptions with two refills when he knew I would probably be taking the particular med for years, rather than a 3-month supply with three refills which I could get cheaper on-line. He said it was a matter of habit since that is the way insurance companies insist on if they are expected to [help] pay. We checked (all of ten minutes...) and found my med they would allow 3-month with two refills (not three). Cut down on co-pays as well as price.
-----------
Not about the shortages: a rant -
"Martin Seligman talks about how ridiculous it is that psychology and psychiatry are largely targeted to "curing" people who are sick, and not helping functioning, productive people become even higher functioning and more productive ..."
I suspect I was lucky that my first involvement was with a psychiatrist who actually listened, and even more so that she recognized that being depressed for over a week or two because a relative - or pet goldfish - has died is NOT the same thing as being depressed as a matter of living. I am mildly depressed unless on med, and it seems I have always (over sixty years) been so. She prescribed a dosage that is so low that even a GP will have no qualms about renewing the prescription.
OTOH, after several years and four psychiatrists, the clinic assigned me to a psychiatrist. Who promptly announced that he would "cure" me of my "drug addiction." I was less than impressed - had he even read the file? I was even less impressed at the second session, in which he gleefully took credit for helping me to some "breakthrough realizations" - all of which I had known about myself before ten years of age.
Maybe he was atypical, but I now refuse to see psychologists. Too, perhaps not entirely his fault - the psych establishment still does not formally distinguish between the temporary situational depressives and the permanent-condition patients.
John A at May 9, 2011 1:29 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2119435">comment from amyAmy - Try the generic version of Excedrin instead of the sudafed. It might work the same way for you, and is a little safer. (Unless you have stomach problems w/aspirin.)
Excedrin has some sort of speed-like ingredient in it?
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 2:01 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2119447">comment from Amy Alkon"Excedrin® Extra Strength is a combination pain reliever that contains acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine."
I can just order a "black-eye" -- and do. And make my coffee at home break-a-tooth black. As I do.
As for the person who recommended I try the evidence-free silliness known as homeopathy, I appreciate the sentiment behind your comment (trying to help), but type that word into the search box on your left. I think you have a few days worth of reading.
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 2:03 PM
TO: cornerdemon
RE: [OT] Homeopathy v. Amy
efore you give Amy any more suggestions on things like that, I invite you to search her blog real quick for her thoughts on homeopathy. -- cornerdemon
Heh....
....I'm very much aware of her opinion on such 'witchcraft'.
However, let me ask you this.
Do you know for a personal 'fact' that homeopathy is ineffective? Or are you just taking someone else's word for it?
If you REALLY want to know the truth of the matter, here's a little experiment you can run in the safety of your own home....
[1] Buy a bottle of cantharis, 6X to 30C 'miracle dilution' should work.
[2] Bring your oven to 400°F.
[3] Put a stainless steel skillet or pan in the over.
[4] Bake the skillet at 400°F for one hour.
[5] Remove the skillet from the oven and put it on the top of the stove.....USING YOUR BARE HANDS.
[6] After you've stopped dancing around the room and screaming obscenities, take four tablets of cantharis of the 'miracle dilution' you've purchased. The process is to put them UNDER your tongue and let them dissolve on their own. Do NOT swallow them.
If your experience is the same as MINE—and this has happened to me on four occasions, but strictly by accident—the pain will go away in 15 minutes and there will be no scar tissue.
First instance while cooking for an Alpha Course dinner. Someone put a stainless steel pan in front of me to dish up food from without telling me where the pan had been; straight out of the hot oven. Instant 2d degree burns. Since I had no cantharis with me at the church, I had to wait until I finished the supper and drove home. All the while in very interesting pain in both hands. Fifteen minutes after the cantharis, no pain. Blisters went away without any scar tissue.
Another instance, a small fire in my candle making shop. Hot wax got on the electric burners were had been red hot. I tried to put the small fire out by smothering it with a towel. Unfortunately, I had not covered my hand completely and a pinkie finger came into contact with the burner element. Instant crispy skin, but a nice mahogony brown.
Took cantharis. Pain gone in 15 minutes. Pain tried to return two hours later. More cantharis, no more pain. No scar tissue.
Try it yourself....
However, I DO recommend you try it in treating an accident instead of on purpose.
A bottle of cantharis can be had at any good vitamin store, e.g., Vitamin Cottage, for about $7. Is that too much to invest in first aid? Or an experiment?
Enjoy....
Chuck(le)
P.P.P.S. If anyone can tell me how scar tissue not forming after a severe burn is a psychosomatic response or a placebo effect, I'd REALLY like to hear it.
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 2:08 PM
TO: All
RE: Additionally....
....anyone know someone with cancer?
Look at pawpaw. I saw it cure the former president of my garden club of a very aggressive squamous carcinoma in one month. [NOTE: Not 'former' because she 'passed on'. She's the 'former' president of my garden club because I'm now the president and she's the club secretary.]
She'd had these sorts of outbreaks several times. She had to have them removed surgically. She didn't like that at all. Especially as her condition makes her hard of healing after they cut her up.
Told her about the pawpaw. She got some and started taking it. When I saw her at the next garden club meeting she was waving her arm in my face and telling me how:
[1] Within 24 hours of beginning to take the pawpaw, the insane itching stopped.
[2] Over the next month the growth dried up and sloughed off.
No surgery. No cancer. No outrageous medical expense.
Hope that helps....but....as it is....
....I have doubts about some of you.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God made the Earth and everything therein for Mankind....]
P.S. Currently the current husband of my Ex is taking it for bladder cancer in order to avoid the surgeons from fitting him with a 'baggie'.
So far....so good.....
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 2:16 PM
I guess I have to throw my hat into the ring and add another comment.
There is gigantic list of my psychiatric issues. Most of the doctors I've seen would rather dose me until I'm a walking zombie. And I can testify that therapy won't work on someone that is as paralyzed with anxiety as I am, which is partly my nature and partly because of an abusive home life.
ADHD is just one of my many "quirks".
I don't remember the biological labels within the brain, which makes this much harder to explain. The ADHD brain is not much different than the normal one, except it's moving much faster, too fast to process information correctly. The prescription drugs work in speeding up the brain until the receivers misfire and shut down, allowing a person to begin processing information again. The drugs are misused by normal people to get a speed-like high, strangely enough would be the speed at which ADHD people are at all the time.
I've never tried Ritalin. Never had a dose of Aderall that did anything at all for me, never a speed-high nor a concentration improvement. I always assumed Ritalin was similar.
Caffeine works wonders for my brain. Coffee, Mtn. Dew, Iced Tea or what I've found to be the best is those 6 hour energy shots. I've got to be careful because I can overdo it and be snoozing the rest of the afternoon. I've always been like this too; my siblings used to give me iced tea so I'd go to sleep when I was a toddler.
I used to abuse actual ephedrine ten years ago, but for me to get the speed-high I wanted, I had to take multiple handfuls every few hours. I wonder if I had taken normal doses of those diet pills in my mother's cabinet, if they'd have slowed me down.
Cat at May 9, 2011 2:38 PM
Gee, Chuck, you really ought to look into that problem with flashbacks you're having.
Gout is caused by uric acid. If you don't change the uric acid concentration, you don't get rid of gout. You didn't do that - you haven't shown a mechanism for doing that - so what really happened was that you mis-diagnosed the cause of your pain.
I suspect that you can't say the amount of active ingredient in the dilution factors you're talking about, and you're used to describing things that just don't happen.
It's water. Try to face the truth.
Hear the one about the homeopath who missed taking his medicine? He died of an overdose!
And, by the way - here's your trump card: demonstrate the miraculous homeopathic cures in this manner and you will:
a) win one million dollars;
b) be famous;
c) still be able to use your miraculous cures!
Or, not.
Radwaste at May 9, 2011 3:37 PM
TO: Anyone
RE: Ritalin Symptoms
Out of curiosity, what are the symptoms you've experienced with whatever it is you take Ritalin for?
I'm looking up data on the web, but I'd like some personal experiences that might vary from the standard AMA approach to medicine, i.e., we're all supposed to be so-many round-pegs for their round-hole, cookie-cutter practice of medicine.
I know better from experience, e.g., the statin. But there are several more similar experiences. One of which almost killed me via giving me central sleep apnea. If you don't know what that is. It's when while you're asleep your brain forgets to tell your lungs to breath. You either wake up in the middle of the night gasping for air. Or you wake up the next morning dead.[NOTE: Again, I found a homeopathic that when I experienced the problem at night, I took it and slept peacefully through the rest of the night. I've been trying to shake it for several years. But it still catches me every now and then. Less frequently than before.]
I'm wondering if there might be a homeopathic materia medica for whatever it is people take Ritalin for.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Death, n., Chilled out....to room temperature.]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 3:43 PM
TO: radwaste
RE: Gout
Gout is caused by uric acid. -- radwaste
I KNOW it's a build up of uric acid in the blood to the point that it crystalizes out...usually in a joint. It's a B'Day gift from my Father....God rest his soul.
My gout attacks, like his, are triggered on by anxiety. His worst attack was the day he retired from the US Air Force. My worst was the day I moved from Denver to here.
But your statement about changing the uric acid doesn't answer how I can stop the pain of someone driving a 16-penny nail through my foot by taking several little milk-sugar pills with a trace of something else in them.
And by the way, I've tried drinking gallons of water and black cherry juice as well as lots of other little tricks. None of them. NONE OF THEM. Worked nearly as effectively as the homeopathics.
On the other hand....
....have you got $7 and the intestinal fortitude to try my little experiment (see above) at home?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. What have you got to lose? Nothing but maybe your pejorative attitude. And you've got the world to gain....while saving SCADS of money as well.....
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 3:49 PM
P.P.S. Dilutions.....
Usually a 30C. Sometimes a 6X. If you know what I'm talking about.
I've taken to making my own Coffea Cruda. It works just as effectively as the store-bought material.
P.P.P.S. Thanks for the link. I'll look into it. Probably send him a vial of Cantharis and tell him about my little 'experiment'.
By the way....
....I told a lady I know about the cantharis. She was complaining about all the time she burns herself while making candies for weddings and other events. She got some.
Next time I saw her, several months later, she couldn't stop hugging me. Said she'd been making some hard candy and got a drop of the molten hardball sugar under her thumbnail.
She took the cantharis and said that 15 minutes later she'd forgotten she'd burned herself.
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 3:54 PM
TO: radwaste
RE: The 'Challenge'....
....seems to be for the psychic, supernatural and/or paranormal environment.
Homeopathic is none of those.
Too bad....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Want Ad: Psychic wanted. You know who to call.]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 4:03 PM
FYI Amy: Doctors think that prescription ADHD medicine may have been a contributing factor to my strokes since I had no risk factors. I also had a friend in his 40's who took cold medicine. Doctor's blamed his stroke on that combined with high blood pressure.
This is just something for you to weigh. I had an almost full bottle of medicine. Occasionally, I will sneak a pill when I really have to get a lot done. It really helps! And I have NO hunger - bonus! Obviously, I don't do it often I still have some left from a 30 day supply - They've lasted 2 and 1/2 years.
Jen at May 9, 2011 4:42 PM
[1] Buy a bottle of cantharis, 6X to 30C 'miracle dilution' should work.
[2] Bring your oven to 400°F.
[3] Put a stainless steel skillet or pan in the over.
[4] Bake the skillet at 400°F for one hour.
[5] Remove the skillet from the oven and put it on the top of the stove.....USING YOUR BARE HANDS.
Yeah, I've done that. I can also catch a baseball without a glove and charge a .50 cal out of the mount. I guess there's no homeopathic remedy for your womanly hands.
If your experience is the same as MINE—and this has happened to me on four occasions, but strictly by accident—the pain will go away in 15 minutes and there will be no scar tissue.
As I understand, to get lab rats to repeatedly burn themselves, they usually have to cut out chunks of their brains...
ben at May 9, 2011 4:59 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2119954">comment from JenThanks, Jen. I have low blood pressure and I didn't just consult a shrink about taking Ritalin and my risk level but a friend who's in public health and one of the top biostatitians in the world. The latter felt that I have almost no risk. Unlike when I got "conscious sedation" for an endoscopy (turned out I was allergic to roquefort cheese, which they didn't figure out; I did). Anyway, that gave me cognitive diminishment for about three weeks (lost my memory, really scary time).
Also, I take a very low dose of Ritalin (I'm sensitive to substances in general - I can't even drink liquor...one sip and I'm practically hospitalize-able...although a glass of wine isn't a problem.)
Amy Alkon at May 9, 2011 5:01 PM
"The 'Challenge'....seems to be for the psychic, supernatural and/or paranormal environment. Homeopathic is none of those. Too bad...."
Oh, yeah... how convenient that you don't actually have to put up or shut up - just like others of your persuasion.
But: read further, padewan. JREF does accept homeopathy challenges.
Your turn. Go get the million bucks.
You haven't explained anything at all.
It's just water.
Radwaste at May 9, 2011 7:24 PM
Oh, by the way - XKCD has your position plotted perfectly.
It's water.
You can dodge everything else if you want.
Radwaste at May 9, 2011 7:32 PM
TO: ben
RE: Brain Damaged
As I understand, to get lab rats to repeatedly burn themselves, they usually have to cut out chunks of their brains... -- ben
Well....does spending 10 days in Walter Reed having them pull bone fragments out of my brain qualify?
As for repeatedly burning myself. I guess I'm just 'lucky' to have that many opportunities to prove homeopathy's efficacy.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. 'ben'. Any relation to that rat-song by Michael Jackson?
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:41 PM
TO: radwaste
RE: Heh
Oh, yeah... how convenient that you don't actually have to put up or shut up - just like others of your persuasion. -- radwaste
YOU'RE the one who is unwilling to try something. Not me.
What's the matter? Can't afford $7? Or just too scared it might work?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Let's file this under 'emotionally scary'.]
Chuck Pelto at May 9, 2011 10:47 PM
"YOU'RE the one who is unwilling to try something. Not me."
Total bullshit. You've just made claims, and you can't back them up.
I bet you're eager to attack others who do that.
It's water. The sooner you admit that, the better off you're going to be.
Go get your million dollars, great benefactor of humanity!
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 2:44 AM
Hey, Check - I have some homeopathic gasoline here. It's 49X, the square of seven bringing harmony to your engine. I wouldn't want to damage it with too potent a product.
How much gasoline is actually present in this gallon?
If you actually made sense, 100X would move your car faster and farther than 10X. Right? If not, why not?
How far do you think you can go with this in your gas tank?
The mark of the shyster is an allergy to measurement. They'll do anything to avoid it, including investment in the idea that labeling equals potency.
-----
This is just like religious nuttery. The afflicted hit their knees to "save" a loved one from some horrible disease, but don't pray at all when it's time to order pizza. When it's eight bucks at risk, all of a sudden, performance counts!
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 2:55 AM
a_random_guy wrote
"- First, as I understand it, doctors cannot break patient confidentiality to put you on some sort of "druggie" list - who are they going to report you to? Of course, given the rapid deterioration of our rights, maybe I am mistakes about this..."
Under provisions of Obamacare, all patient information will be in a centralized medical database accessible to government bureaucrats (and presumably law enforcement) for the purpose of controlling costs.
Other than the controls over ephedrin I do not know how the regulatory environment under this administration may have affected drug availability or prescription standards. Is anyone knowledgeable enough to enlighten?
NoelArmourson at May 10, 2011 4:49 AM
TO: RadWaste
RE: The JREF 'Challenge'
Well I looked it over. Even checked for terms related to 'homeopathy' and medicine.
Didn't find any mention of non-psychic/paranormal/supernatural as relating to homeopathy in there.
Please point out the passage there that makes you think it's eligible.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 5:52 AM
so... Chuckle, you are aware that for homeopathy to work your diagnosis has to be spot on, right? You can try many things and potencies that don't work until you get to the one that does. On the other hand, recommending sulpher to someone can make their situation worse if it's the wrong dose. You can recommend Nux Vomica to a kid with an upset stomach, but if they have food posining, it won't hold that barf back. If there is a REASON for the body to eliminate something it will. Sometimes Bryonia Alba WILL quiet your cough, unless you ACTUALLY HAVE strep throat, at which point dosing with a homeopathic, and contiuing on as if that will help, might put you in the hospital with complications. Depends on how bad the strep is.
Or.
You can have a kid come to you as a homeopath having eczema herpeticum, and instead of sending the parent to a regular doctor, you can insist that you can fix that with various remedies...
and 1 day later you can get an angry phonecall from a parent whose child is in the ICU possibly dying from same, that your treatment wasn't able to do anything for.
you can then say, "It's not my responsibility, I only recommend treatments..."
Is that any better than your doctor with the statins?
So, how long have you been a homeopathy practitioner, and how many are in your practice? What is your success ratio?
FWIW the kid didn't die. But my ex is still a true believer in homeopathy, even though it has failed to treat pretty much everything from my migraines to her depression. On occasion, when you hit the exact right low dose thing it can make a basic cough better, and graphites seems to work on my occasional rash, but I wouldn't put that past placebo effect, and since homeopaths insist that higher doses act more on the mind, AND THEY DO... It is entirely possible that placebo effect is all that goes on with the high doses.
If you want better indications of this, try homopathy with small babies, and see just how much of it works, since placebos don't really work on them. eventually you'll give up and give them a few drops of children's tylenol, even if you are a true believer, just so everyone can sleep.
It IS possible that I've been around the block a couple of times with this.
SwissArmyD at May 10, 2011 10:04 AM
TO: SwissArmyD
RE: We're All 'Different'
Yes. I'm very much aware that the proper materia medica for treating an ailment or injury varies from one person to the next.
I do believe that is why the so-called 'controlled' experiments performed by various allopaths and pharm companies continually fail. They—in their infinite wisdom—continue to treat all people as if they would fit into their 'round holes'. Whereas some of us a 'square', some triangles and some dodecahedrons. Others are even more 'different'.
RE: The 'Small Child' Test
Funny you should mention that.
My youngest daughter, born to me by the 'witch' who introduced me to homeopathy was an excellent example of that sort of 'test'.
She came of breast-feeding at six months. The first night, after being given bottle formula for 'supper', we awoke to a horrific screaming and wailing from the nursery: colic.
My wife, went to her tomes. Looked up something. Went to her apothocary. Pulled out a vial. Took out some pills. Came back into the nursery. We had to get the pills into our daughter's mouth. She REALLY didn't want to have ANYTHING in her poor disturbed—by the new bacterial environment—tummy.
We finally got the pills into her mouth.
Five minutes later, we had our happy baby back again.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[THAAAaaanks for the memories.... -- Bob Hope]
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 1:07 PM
P.S. My 'witchie' wife introduced me to homeopathy in the mid-80s.
I was a skeptic like most others at the time. BUT, after suffering years of burning feet after doing my standard active-duty Army physical-fitness 2 miles during lunch in the Summer and having to soak my feet several times in cool water in a pan I kept under my bed before being able to get to sleep....
....She broke open her tomes. Asked me a few questions. Gave me some pills, that I reluctantly accepted.
Five minutes later, the incredible burning sensation in my feet disappeared.
Five minutes after that, I had the best sleep I'd had in weeks.
I became 'less skeptical'. The experience with our daughter (as reported above) confirmed the demise of my skepticism.
Nobody in my 'practice'. It's just in the household.
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 1:16 PM
P.P.S. The materia medica for my burning feet was....
....sulpher.
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 1:18 PM
"Please point out the passage there that makes you think it's eligible."
Wow, you'd think a genius like this would be able to see their involvement...
First, see JREF's involvement in fighting this quackery.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 3:20 PM
"Please point out the passage there that makes you think it's eligible."
Then, you can see an example of the Foundation's willingness to accept applicants on the topic.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 3:23 PM
Then, Chuck, you could actually man up and ask them: mailto:challenge@randi.org
But be ready. You can't be honest about there not being such a thing as homeopathic gasoline, or even acknowledge the existence of LD50 toxicity documentation for literally thousands of substances, and you will be required to explain what you will do and then do it. As the Challenge explains, you won't even be required to say how it works. You'll just have to show up with something without measurable ingredients that acts like it's all there.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 3:30 PM
so let me ask you this Chuck, when two household have completely opposite outcomes from homeopathy, and we went to well regarded pratitioners in Chicago, who is right? Skepticism is in order when things cannot be proven, yes?
You had that problem with Statins, I had that problem with Seldane, before it was yanked from the market for killing people. I've seen homopathy NOT work far more often than it seemed to work, both myself and with my children, and even with my ex and her materia medica.
You say it's difficult to test, but I would think it was simple. Bring in a person with a problem, dose them, and see if it works. Sure it'd be tough to do a large scale double blind test that way. But in the small scale I've seen this fail most of the time.
Perhaps you're just lucky to be married to a particularly gifted practitioner.
What makes it scientifically questionable is that the outcomes are not repeatable... so the question is, if homeopathy cannot by it's nature conform to scientific laws, due to variability of diagnosis, what makes it provable?
If we go with the empirical, does THIS remedy, prescribed by THAT practitioner work when they say it will... even homeopaths won't say that. Long ago when we were going to one practitioner, I had a swarm of migraines...
and he couldn't find anything to help. This went on for 3 weeks. I gave up, told my ex I couldn't accept that anymore, and took the imitrix. Yeah side effects. Not fun. But no migraine. Able to eat again. Not thinking of jumping off a bridge.
This is not as straightforward as you pretend, but if it works for you, I'm glad to hear it. But I think you may be a lucky one in that case.
SwissArmyD at May 10, 2011 3:32 PM
TO: SwissArmyD
RE: Your Results May Vary
Who's right? Simple. The one that works is right.
The 'challenge' is being able to properly recognize symptoms and match them up against the information in some tome like Boericke's.
Skepticism, as I've experienced myself, disappears the face of successful applications. Especially on more than one occasion. I was skeptical myself (see above). I learned better. And this household is better for it.
RE: Testing for Oneself
As I offered above, there IS a simple and effective test. I continually offer it. And people, e.g., Radwaste, continually refuse to try it themselves. [Note: You should have been to the meeting of a chapter of Mensa where I and a member of Skeptics went head-to-head. I even gave away vials of cantharis. Hardly anyone had to courage to take one of them home. I suspect something to do with fear of experiencing something that would destroy their concept of 'reality'.]
The 'outcome' of the cantharis experiment IS reproducible. So is the coffea cruda. Or the apis mellim.
And I'm not pretending about ANY of this.
Hope that helps....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. About the migraines....
....have you tried Ginko Biloba?
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 4:35 PM
I 'dun get it Chuck, I HAVE taken many remedies, both proscribed by homeopaths and taken based on reading in the materia medica, and they do not work more than 50%... when I was going to homeopaths they had access to some of the really esoteric ones that are hard to find...
So I must be right becasue it doesn't work, correct? Essentially you can't tell when it will and won't work. Skeptical?
Leave Raddy aside for the moment and talk to someone who has taken remedies for years.
Oh, and Gingko made my migraines about 1000x worse... even herbalists have stop suggesting it because the change in bloodflow can make the problems worse.
SwissArmyD at May 10, 2011 5:04 PM
"I continually offer it. And people, e.g., Radwaste, continually refuse to try it themselves."
Hey, so you have a reality problem. I'm not taking any medication. And what kind of mental process do you claim when your "treatment" contains NO active ingredient?
Care to name what your dilution factors really are? Do you know what molarity is (not a typo, molarity)?
No. You don't.
And it is obvious to the most casual observer that you're dodging.
You have nothing to show. You won't call JREF, because they'll hurt your feelings. They'll publish a video of your failure, assuming you could get a grip long enough to describe in real terms what you're doing. Here, you'll make unending claims about how you cured yourself with water, not having a lick of sense about how anything works.
The world works according to physical laws. That you can and do lie about that and dodge endlessly doesn't change that.
Lie and dodge, dodge and lie. Standard behavior for the homeopath. Well, when they're not stealing money from suffering people.
Gee, a million dollars.
Your bluff has been called. Put up or shut up. I'd prefer that you put up, because, gee, you'll be famous, and rich, and bring an entire new world of freedom from disease and suffering into existence for us all.
Now - what reason could there be for not doing that? Hmm. Let's think!
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 5:32 PM
Hey, Chuck - check this out!
"In his message, Randi issued a one-million-dollar challenge to the manufacturers of homeopathic products to prove their claims, and challenged major drug retailers like CVS, Rite-Aid, and Walgreens to stop tricking consumers into paying real money for fake medicine."
There's your challenge, genius. Go take his money.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 5:52 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: Thanks....
....for taking the time to provide a good link regarding JREF and homeopathy.
However, not for me to quibble, I see the mention of the term....
"....to the manufacturers of homeopathic products...."
I'm not REALLY a bona fide 'manufacturer', but I know HOW to make the stuff. So if I do prove it to him or whomever, I suspect they'll 'quibble' about the designation.
However, I WILL send him a complimentary vial of cantharis and my suggested 'experiment'.
Who knows....
....maybe he'll get a 'clue'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Worst thing that could happen here is someone could learn something. -- Letterman]
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 6:44 PM
TO: SwissArmyD
RE: 50%
I 'dun get it Chuck, I HAVE taken many remedies, both proscribed by homeopaths and taken based on reading in the materia medica, and they do not work more than 50%... -- SwissArmyD
50% is better than nothing.
Against flu virus issues, I have a success rate of about 25% for complete success. And a 60% rate of success in mitigating the more acute symptoms. So, keeping at it, I do finally get some relief. And that's better than 0% success.
What does it mean?
Could be a number of things.
[1] The proper materia medica is not currently known. There are millions of possibilities out there in the wide, wonderful world. I only know of 426.
[2] The book one is using is lousy. Regrettable but possible. I've got a number books. Two are much better than all the others I have on hand. I recommend Panos' Homeopathic Medicine at Home and Boericke's tome, Materia Medica. The latter is very difficult to wade through and some people just might 'give up'.
[3] One does not know how to properly identify what they are experiencing. It takes practice and experience to cope with Boericke's syntax, bouncing your symptoms off of what he wrote.
RE: Ginko
Sorry to hear that. It works for my wife. But then again, people ARE 'different'....as we've already discussed.
I'm blessed that I don't experience migraines. You're blessed—I suspect—for never having gout.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Take two aspirin and drive on. -- typical Army medic]
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 6:56 PM
TO: All
RE: ADHD and Homeopathy
Looking over Boericke's tome, I see two items that might be of interest for ADHD.
• Arnica (leopard's bane)
• Viscum Album (mistletoe)
I was looking for "hyper active", as I don't think that back in the 1920s they used the term ADHD.
However, I'm certain that there are a number of other symptoms associated with the ADHD business. Symptoms I'm not familiar with and couldn't cross-index on. Such symptoms would be necessary to select the proper materia medica.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[NyQuil: The sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, why-the-heck-is-the-room-spinning medicine.]
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 7:04 PM
"Thanks........for taking the time to provide a good link regarding JREF and homeopathy."
You couldn't find that yourself, and you expect anyone to believe something else you post?
That's it, Chuck. Dodge. Shrink from the light. Hide from the truth. Ignore unpleasant points and posts. Profess something else. Distract when you can. Claim other things. Change the subject. Blame other people. Move the goalposts.
Maybe you should try quacking.
It's not the only link there, either. JREF will test you. All you have to do is tell them what you will do that demonstrates that what you say actually works, and then do it.
Honesty. It's a simple concept.
Missing in your case.
Again: There's your challenge, genius. Go take his money.
By the way: Mr. Randi will be at DragonCon this year. You have a chance to speak to him personally, and to his staff.
I bet you won't do that either. It's too important to dodge, to hide, and to pretend.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 7:08 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: JREF Challenge for Homeopathy
I've sent an e-mail explaining my counter-challenge. Looking forward to hearing back from their organization.
Thanks again....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Why is it that you remind me of a defrocked Roman Catholic priest I had to listen to during mandatory 'diversity' training for a Fortune 500 company I once worked for? The vitriol you manifest is really quite 'interesting' in how much it resembled that poor man's comportment.
[Mandatory diversity training in the conference room at 9 AM. Body armor is recommended.]
Chuck Pelto at May 10, 2011 7:29 PM
Well, Chuck, you do what you're told very well, making this about me as fast and as much as you can.
Now I remember why you got banned.
It was for being a nutcase, among other things. Yeah, Chernobyl's in the Bible™ (not).
Like I said, be ready. Serious people will ask you what you're doing. If you get Jamy Ian Swiss to watch, he'll shock you. He has a nice trick where he hands a woman a coin to clasp tightly, talks to her for a minute, then has her open her hand - and it's a different coin. Professionals who fool others for a living aren't going to be impressed with a guy who, to this point, merely fools himself. What do your dilution terms mean, again?
You know, here you are talking about alchemy. That's just pathetic. We actually have recon orbiters mapping the Moon and Mars, the Cassini/Huygens probe has pictures of the surface of Titan... and microscopy can show you individual atoms.
Someday, I hope you'll visit this world.
Radwaste at May 10, 2011 7:52 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: [OT] Heh
Love the ad homs. A sure sign about capabilities to discuss matters in a logical manner. Reminds me of the Lawyers Rule....
[1] If the Law is against you, argue the facts.
[2] If the facts are against you, argue the Law.
[3] If the Law and the facts are against you, call the other side names. -- The Official Rules: A Compendium of Truths and Laws for Living
Too bad you can't (1) keep on topic and (2) provide cogent args to support your positions on (1).
But enough of the negative strokes. You seem to thrive on them.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? -- Proverbs]
P.S. How about I send you some Cantharis? Since you obviously don't have the natural curiosity most human beings have to get some for yourself.
Chuck Pelto at May 11, 2011 11:03 AM
Chuck:
"A sure sign about capabilities to discuss matters in a logical manner."
(Sorry to everyone else, couldn't let this dead horse go without taking a swing at it)
But you're the one turning logic on it's ear and making a mockery of it.
To assume the mantle of "logic" whilst you completely throw the mature sciences of statistics, chemistry and physics away while trying to allude to a mystical understanding of biochem/biology is rather ludicrous.
Quite simply, homeopathy falls apart under it's own contradictions - other than psychology.
If the preparation of the cure, such that you end up with (on statistical average) less than a molecule of what you're supposedly using as a curative, how in the heck do you deal with all the trace contaminates of your water supply? For instance, you're talking about sulfur for one remedy, yet there's more sulfur in the traces of the water you'll be using than from the preparation. And if sulfur isn't what you're going for? Well, you've still got it. (Or else you need to explain how you're getting perfectly pure H2O, which under homeopathic theory, is still going to be carrying the "like" of any other molecule it's ever been succussed by, in a few-million-year existance...
The "logic" here isn't being provided by you, or your claims. Unless you can prove how it works, because it's currently at total odds with the very base of many very mature sciences, including ones that are working the computer you're working on, there's no reason to "logically" try any snake oil cure.
"natural curiosity most human beings have to get some for yourself."
That's not "logical" to "go ahead, try it, everybody else is."
It's one thing to claim, hey, it works for me. It's another to insist in the face of scientific facts and proofs, (and by ignoring a number of rather conflicting issues, such as all the OTHER elements that are present in those molecules when they've been successed through the years), that you are right, but you can't prove it other than through demonstration.
Unix-Jedi at May 11, 2011 11:40 AM
"There is a version of Mucinex-D right on the store shelves at my drugstore -- now made with with a less effective ingredient than pseudoephedrine. Handy!"
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/aop-eoo013107.php
"This meta-analysis of 15 previous studies concludes that the standard 10 mg dose of the drug appears to be no more effective than placebo..."
Previous to all this crackdown on sudafed, most meth was made in Mexico, and smuggled in.
I've seen stats that it was 75% of all meth in the country, pre-hysteria.
Now it's 80% made in Mexico.
Actually, for the Government, that's a screaming successful program.
Unix-Jedi at May 11, 2011 12:00 PM
"Since you obviously don't have the natural curiosity most human beings have to get some for yourself."
As I said - you have a serious problem with reality.
You've even posted here that you issued a "counter-challenge" to the JREF.
Hey, genius - they are not going to prove anything. You are.
And so far, you haven't shown you know about anything.
Hmm. You make claims including the usual dilution factors touted by the deluded worldwide. You ignore the obvious example that there is no such thing as "homeopathic" gasoline (you must ignore it, because engines do not care about your opinions). You don't know JREF tests homeopaths. I show you. You claim they only test manufacturers. I show you where they test individuals. Now you don't understand the testing protocol.
Or, you're just dodging again. I'll bet on that.
Unix-jedi is totally correct about impurities, BTW.
There is so much you don't know. No wonder you strike out by claiming something about me again.
Hmm. I have a lack of curiosity? How about you learn something - many things, as you will see, and get back to me. This is just another of your many statements made in abject ignorance.
That forum thread is called, "What Do You Really Know", which I started because people in religious arguments really have NO IDEA what has been done or measured today. You'll see people in denial about their religion there, just as you are about the miraculous properties of... water.
You should be humble. You have a lot to be humble about. Ignorance is an ugly word.
Don't be ugly.
Radwaste at May 11, 2011 2:57 PM
TO: All
RE: [OT] Heh
But you're the one turning logic on it's ear and making a mockery of it. -- Unix-Jedi
This from someone who lives, eats and breaths Jedi-theology.
Maybe I should send HIM some Cantharis. But he probably gets all his nutrition from Papa Johns. So there's little chance of burning himself while actually cooking food.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If Yoda in Force so strong, how come Yoda, in proper order, words cannot put?]
P.S. No more responses to the silly, sophomoric ad homs.....let them wallow in their own self-flagellation....they seem to enjoy it so much....
Chuck Pelto at May 11, 2011 3:25 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: JREF Counter-Challenge
No word back yet on my counter-proposal from JREF.
And mine would be so much easier for him—or you or anyone else—to take up.
Just get some cantharis. Keep it handy in the kitchen or medicine cabinet. If you burn yourself....take it.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[There is none so blind as he who will not 'see'....for himself.]
Chuck Pelto at May 11, 2011 3:58 PM
Hey, here's a guy who doesn't want to reply to any substantive challenge, so he gets panties in a wad and whines instead.
Gee. This is the real world. If what you say is real, it seems to me you'd be eager to show what you know in real terms, take JREF's money and tell the doubting planet to go to hell.
And if it's not...
Oh, yeah. We've been here before. Just not with Chuck, that time.
Do note there was a problem with exponential notation in the article. It's tough to express just how much "nothing" is.
It's just water.
While people are building orbiters and landers to go to Saturn, Mercury, Mars and the Moon; build the Large Hadron Collider; when they can measure changes in isotopic concentration in an Antarctic ice core a mile long with 140-plus thousand layers; when a 2nd-class petty officer in the Navy can shoot a satellite down from his chair in the CIC; when they mass-produce desktop processors with switches just five atoms thick...
...you offer - gossip.
It really isn't an ad hominem when I state that you don't know what you're talking about.
You're proving it yourself!
Radwaste at May 11, 2011 3:58 PM
CVS and RiteAid sell store brand, 12-hour, time release pseudoephedrine.
Michelle at May 11, 2011 4:32 PM
"But you're the one turning logic on it's ear and making a mockery of it. -- Unix-Jedi
This from someone who lives, eats and breaths Jedi-theology."
Hokey GUIs and newfangled bad implementations of old ideas are no match for a good command line, kid.
That's quite a stretch from my moniker - but like your homeopathic ideas, you don't really need _proof_, you just _know_ you're right.
That's called "religion" and it's a whole nother subject away from "logic" and "science".
"Maybe I should send HIM some Cantharis. But he probably gets all his nutrition from Papa Johns. So there's little chance of burning himself while actually cooking food."
Who here is full of ad-homs? Not only do I cook 13 days out of every fortnight, I'm well regarded as a great cook. And Papa John's isn't bad, at least it wasn't when I last ate there a few years back.
So you're projecting ad homs onto us, as you flail pathetically and non-humorously, confident in your own superiority and knowledge. Nevermind it's easily demolished by _facts_.
Now, care to talk about impurities in water, and how that would affect your dilution, and the effects? How can you even *know* what's *in the solution* as a result of impurities?
Furthermore, no, I don't need Spanish Fly, it's dangerous as hell, and the fact that it causes _chemical burns_ and as a result of that someone comes up with the "logic" that that's identical (enough) to heat burns that "like cures like" (wait, those are two seperate (Forget it, he's rolling.)) is a mark of your gullibility.
But let's examine your hypothetical just a bit more. So you grab a 350 degree pan made of iron. Conducts heat well. Your skin and flesh do not. So they rapidly heat up.
Cell walls disintegrate. Water inside cells boils and bursts out. The heat denatures the proteins of well, everything, including the DNA and RNA. Cells making up structures, such as capillaries rupture and burst. Blood cells burst, clotting agents are released into the mass of chemicals and cellular fragments.
This is what happens (in part) when you grab that cast iron skillet.
The blistering and weeping of serum from the wound, from the destroyed cells, is from the reaction of the body to repair the damage to the body - not the cells - caused by heat transfer in excess of what almost all terran life can withstand.
This is done. Cells are dead. Their contents are fragmented and scattered. Bodily structures are injured and damaged.
The only way you fix those cells via a pill you take after the event is magic.
You can affect the pain caused, we can interrupt the nerve signals. You can mitigate some of the effects of the cleanup/repair that are superfluous or inconvenient.
Now, _explain_ how water molecules that were exposed to a _blistering agent_ (which works in a totally different method than straight heat destruction.) and then diluted massively will retroactively fix those ruptured and damaged interconnected systems. Please. (For now, we'll let you ignore all those *other* molecules of all sorts of homeopathic interest were around and successed at some point in time.)
Since you're "logical".
"[If Yoda in Force so strong, how come Yoda, in proper order, words cannot put?]"
When 500 years you reach, silly English construction care not you will.
"P.S. No more responses to the silly, sophomoric ad homs.....let them wallow in their own self-flagellation....they seem to enjoy it so much."
The only one throwing ad homs is you. For some reason. Almost like you don't want to deal with the _real arguments_ presented.
Unix-Jedi at May 11, 2011 9:21 PM
You know, on reflection...
"This from someone who lives, eats and breaths Jedi-theology."
Let's consider that. Me on one side, who picked a moniker with a tongue-in-cheek meaning (not the one most people guess). You on the other.
(We'll stay with ANH's Force, and not get into the abortion of retconning that is the prequels.)
"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
- Obi-wan Kenobi
"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."
- Han Solo
Which one of those is closer to homeopathy, where the "essence" of a "like" (at least for certain concepts of "like" that at best are childishly superficial) molecule (but not all the wrong unlike ones) binds to water molecules (somehow negating/overriding all the other essences of those molecules millions of years of existance)...
Which one is "Jedi-theology?"
And who "lives, eats and breaths" it?
Unix-Jedi at May 11, 2011 10:27 PM
I don't know if anyone mentioned this article (that's a lot of comments to go through just to check), but as usual another government official wants to have us all watched "for our own good" just in case other people want to break the law.
You can read the full article here (http://www.wisn.com/r/27848045/detail.html) but basically it has been suggested in Wisconsin that pharmacies should connect their databases so they can track who buys pseudoephedrine so that meth creators cannot go from store to store buying cold pills. In another stunning destruction of our privacy rights, they want to track how much pseudoephedrine you buy. Thanks big brother!
"State and federal officials want Wisconsin to link pharmacies' databases, using an electronic stop-sale system, similar to ones operating in nine states and pending in five others. The systems track pseudoephedrine sale data."
So if you started to use pseudoephedrine as an off label ADHD medication and that system was implemented in CA, you could be targeted as a Meth cooker. I picture a SWAT team breaking into your house and giving your poor dog a heart attack, all because of a shortage of Ritalin...
Zoogie2 at May 12, 2011 9:18 AM
5 words: "Sam pon mah huang, chien"(trans: "three pounds of mah huang, please") (You need to find a local chinatown...)
Run herb through blender, make tea.
It will be 1% free base ephedrine, ie. the real deal (as opposed to the "pseudo")
You can't buy it in english, hence the transliterated mandarin.
Caution: as opposed to the desoxegenated version (amphetamine), ephedrine has proportionately more peripheral vasoconstrictive effects, meaning, check your blood pressure daily.
You are welcome.
jollyroger at May 13, 2011 1:42 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2135344">comment from jollyrogerThank you!
Amy Alkon at May 13, 2011 2:02 PM
Damn. that was quick...Is that a recent pic? (a sucker for redheads since I was two and a half years old)
jollyroger at May 13, 2011 2:31 PM
Thanks - yes...taken last year.
Amy Alkon at May 13, 2011 2:33 PM
On the other hand, anyone who uses marijuana or heroin is still a horrible loathesome criminal who needs to be locked up forever, right?
Consumer Unit 5012 at May 13, 2011 3:49 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2135676">comment from Consumer Unit 5012On the other hand, anyone who uses marijuana or heroin is still a horrible loathesome criminal who needs to be locked up forever, right?
Why actually search to see if that's what I believe when you can just fly off and post an assumption about it?
I think where you go in your head is your business as long as the rest of us don't have to pay for it. (By, say, funding your rehab or with our lives, should you drive under the influence.)
Amy Alkon at May 13, 2011 4:02 PM
Buy your Guaifenesin and and Pseudoephedrine separately and you wouldn't have these problems.
Multi-symptom medicine is a serious problem as it is where most unintentional poisonings and drug overdoses in this country come from.
Other than that... Yeah, it is annoying. But part of your problem is Kaiser.
Crissa at May 13, 2011 5:46 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2135848">comment from CrissaKaiser isn't my problem. I chose it in my early 20s as a person whose main goal in life isn't getting rich. I thought I might never be more than sort of middle-class in terms of my income as a (hard-working) writer, and picked Kaiser because their rates on rise by age, and once you're in, you're in.
Doctors in general are ruled by strict laws that are more about protecting the Federal drug control-ocracy than about patient welfare. This is true across medicine.
Amy Alkon at May 13, 2011 5:53 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2135882">comment from CrissaAlso, I like the Mucinex because it's a 12-hour formulation. I tend to write from early in the morning to around dinner time and longer if I can have enough brain energy to keep going.
Amy Alkon at May 13, 2011 6:21 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: What....
....will it hurt for you to look at a copy of Boericke's?
What have you got to lose? Maybe a couple of hours reading.
What have you got to gain? How about the difference between the cost of a months supply of Mucinex and...what....$7?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The worst thing that could happen here is that someone might learn something. -- Letterman]
Chuck Pelto at May 16, 2011 7:15 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2141461">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, a mountain evidence shows that homeopathy is worthless at anything beyond separating fools and their money. I'm not a fool and I'm hanging onto my money. Feel free to send me your $7 via my Paypal, and I'll put it to use having coffee and thinking actually rational thoughts to help people do more than become slightly poorer.
Amy Alkon at May 16, 2011 7:19 AM
Chuck:
Why not watch some basic chemistry courses for a couple of hours and for free?
What will it hurt, to use your phrase?
It might help you understand why those of us scientifically trained raise our eyebrows at the claims of homeopathy - and their failure rate in blind trials.
You sneer for people not arguing you on the merits, but you run away from merit-based discussions. Instead devolving to whining and testimonial begging.
Or... try and prove your point. Randi's got a lot of money for you to succeed. Trillions are in the offering. Nobel Prizes.
jollyroger:
"5 words: "Sam pon mah huang, chien"(trans: "three pounds of mah huang, please") (You need to find a local chinatown...)"
Yeeeks. Years ago I took some pills [I have since forgotten why I took them, but it was a brand I had used before] that had added mah huang to this formulation and I didn't notice. Until I took 2.
About 12 hours later, the room stopped spinning and my heart slowed down and stopped pounding.
Effective stuff, but the (variable) dosage from teas and from fly-by-night pill mills has me very leery of that.
So if you do that, Amy, my suggestion is start dilute and have multiple, dilute cups of tea.
Unix-Jedi at May 16, 2011 11:19 AM
TO: Unix-J
RE: Chemistry, Anyone?
Why not watch some basic chemistry courses for a couple of hours and for free? -- Unix-J
How about taking more chemistry that chemistry majors take? Microbiology majors at UNL took almost half-again as much chemistry as Chem majors took. It was a double-major program.
I have to admit that I do not fully understand how homeopathy works. Let alone explain it. Especially to people who refuse to even attempt to test it. Let alone understand it for themselves....{nudge-nudge, wink-wink}.
However, as I've said before, you're welcome to test its efficacy for yourself....if you have the courage. Just look at the proposed test (above).
Regards,
Chuck(le)
BS, Microbiology/Chemistry, Class of 1975
University of Nebraska
Chuck Pelto at May 16, 2011 2:05 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Heh
Chuck, a mountain evidence shows that homeopathy is worthless at anything beyond separating fools and their money. -- Amy Alkon
And for centuries people believed the world was 'flat'. Indeed. A number of people still believe that. Then again millions of people give money to televangelists. Even more give money to The One in the Oval Office.
What's my point?
Your point has no point.
Instead, I ask again, what have you got to lose for a simple, self-administered 'test'.
Do you cook? Make candles? Bar-B-Q? Ever burn yourself doing such?
Get some cantharis and keep it in your medicine cabinet. If you have such an accident....use it.
Then tell me whether or not it actually worked for you as well as it has worked for me.
You've got only $7 to lose. And not one penny of it goes to me, as you choose your own source. So I have NOTHING to gain, except knowing someone has learned that there is more to this Earth than the AMA and FDA would care for you to know.
Then, if it IS effective. Maybe you can find a solution to your own situation that is more effective and less costly—in terms of monies and side-effects—than what you currently experience.
Hope that helps....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Having eyes they can not see. Having ears they do not hear. For they have hardened their hearts.]
Chuck Pelto at May 16, 2011 2:15 PM
P.S. Hey. About that 'mountain of evidence'....
....how much of it was piled up with monies from the pharm companies or (AMA Sanctioned) medical colleges?
I've seen many of those reports and there is a LOT of 'conflict of interest'.
And, as additional information, that JREF 'challenge' someone was talking about above....
....I've e-mailed them. They gave an automated reply of sending me a copy of my contact to them.
HOWEVER, I've heard nothing more back from them.
If you could contact them and urge them to respond to my communications, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Please remember to CC me on your communications to them.
Chuck Pelto at May 16, 2011 2:19 PM
P.P.S. Heck....
Give me a General Delivery US Postal Service address and I'll GIVE you a vial of cantharis.
Original Manufacture seal intact.
Just keep it handy. This way you have nothing to lose....
...and everything to gain.
Chuck Pelto at May 16, 2011 2:26 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2142274">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, please keep the sugar pills and send me the money you'd pay for them.
Amy Alkon at May 16, 2011 3:26 PM
It's just water, Chuck. Got your homeopathic gasoline yet?
You have actually claimed a degree?
I suspect it was homeopathic.
Because the alternative to not knowing what you're talking about is lying.
-----
You've complained about not getting a response from JREF. As I have pointed out, they have nothing to prove. You do. So your "counter-challenge" probably has just as much merit as your other claims, i.e., none.
By the way, try the reality. I'm not Unix-jedi. And I'm not corresponding with them because I don't have anything to prove. You do.
Get it?
Radwaste at May 16, 2011 4:25 PM
Chuck:
"And for centuries people believed the world was 'flat'. Indeed."
Not sailors. Or people who were educated and thought about how things worked. Only people who "had the courage" to come up with how it MUST work.
Which has a *lot* of similarities not with modern medicine, but with homeopathy. Both started with no knowledge. One at least ostensibly works towards evidence. The other is religious faith-based.
Or, psychosomatic. We're not disagreeing it's faith and psychology at work.
"Instead, I ask again, what have you got to lose for a simple, self-administered 'test'."
Pain. Lots of it. Blistering. Permanent injury to my hand.
Upside if you're right? Not a lot. Hey, I can get medicine that magically works.
Downside if you're wrong? Permanent disability.
So you think it's a simple thing to offer a trial by fire - literally - and we say "You're nuts".
That's not _evidence_, it's not _science_, and it's why you have double-blind studies, because your way isn't objectively scientific.
"Microbiology majors at UNL took almost half-again as much chemistry as Chem majors took."
Then you don't really have the excuse that you don't understand atomic structure, how long that molecule has been around, and how dilution works.
Avogadro's number ?
Granted, my Polymer Chemistry degree wasn't given until '93, and I'm sure the program/education wasn't half of what you went through.
But it taught me a lot, and *for your dilution to work, it violates everything you and I learned for our degree*.
"Especially to people who refuse to even attempt to test it. Let alone understand it for themselves....{nudge-nudge, wink-wink}."
I don't feel the need to throw out my 4 years at college, nor do I take issue with the many, many, many, many double-blind studies that have been done.
I've also never tested if cyanide and arsenic are toxic. Or a whole host of really stupid things with very bad downsides.
"However, as I've said before, you're welcome to test its efficacy for yourself....if you have the courage. Just look at the proposed test (above)."
Stop with the genital waving. Courage isn't the same as the lack of common sense. I'm fine with my unmutilated hands if you want to call that cowardice.
"someone has learned that there is more to this Earth than the AMA and FDA would care for you to know."
I'm not sure who you're addressing. It's certainly not Amy, it's not me, and I don't think it's Radwaste. The AMA and FDA often have their heads up their asses, and ignore the science for politics. They're just as wrong whem they do that, as when you tell us to try something that could mutilate us, because it _might_ work. Better than remedies/therapies/medicines that are proven to work, and that have a scientific _explanation_ that stands up to scrutiny other than "Placebo"
Radwaste:
"Got your homeopathic gasoline yet?"
I think you're misunderstanding homeopathy. It's for *cures*. So gasoline diluted like that isn't a good example. Instead, you need to find something that can cure it, like "Like causes like" - take a nail, submerge in water, succuss 60 times, then take a drop, dilute, success, etc.
Then pour that over a flat tire. Tada! Fix-A-Homeopathic-Flat!
Unix-Jedi at May 16, 2011 8:44 PM
TO: All
RE: Heh
Chuck, please keep the sugar pills and send me the money you'd pay for them. -- Amy Alkon
This is a classic example of how pejorative thinking works.
A simple little test that can prove or disprove something and reasonably intelligent people refuse to even look at it. They, themselves, are like a form of 'flat earth society'.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I met with the skeptics at a C'Springs Mensa meeting. I set five vials of cantharis on the table. Only one in eight people took one home with them.
So much for the 'intellectuals'.....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[There is none so blind as she who will not 'see'...for themselves.]
Chuck Pelto at May 17, 2011 9:54 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2144980">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, homeopathy has been proven to be a load of crap. As for your personal experience, or, rather, what you likely find from a placebo effect/confirmation bias, there's a saying in epidemiology, "the plural of anecdote is not data."
In the words of Marcia Angell and Jerome Kassirer:
Chuck, a single duck liver reportedly is behind all the occilloccocinum ever made. Silly people believe this stuff will cure them, and hilariously, while snarking about big pharma. It has many things wrong with it, big pharma, but at least it's supposed to start with a basis in evidence.
Amy Alkon at May 17, 2011 9:59 AM
"A simple little test that can prove or disprove something"
No, it cannot. And someone trained as you were should know why that is categorically, entirely, 100% incorrect.
Proof and disproof are parts of scientific analysis, and what you are offering is not scientific. (And you should know better after claiming that degree and training.)
Part of the theory has to be an explanation as to why this works the way it does. You admit you have none, other than faith.
And hey, faith can move mountains. But it's faith, without any backing.
"and reasonably intelligent people refuse to even look at it. They, themselves, are like a form of 'flat earth society'."
Because it's not proof. It's snake oil. And you'll never have enough time to try every snake oil remedy (presuming one doesn't kill you in the progression). At least homeopathy isn't likely to cause _detrimental_ effects, since it's water/sugar.
(By the way, if you're using sugar as your media, what are you doing about the contamination of the sugar by trace elements?
Doing a quick google of what you'll find, trace wise (but in stronger concentrations than what you've intended to prepare): Ag, Al, As, Au, Ba, Br, Ca, Cd, Ce, Cl, Co, Cr, Cs, Cu, Dy, Eu, Fe, Ga, Hf, K, La, Li, Lu, Mg, Mn, Na, Nb, Ni, Pb, Sb, Sc, Se, Sm, Sn, Sr, Ta, Th, Ti, U, V, W and Zn.)
Oh. Whoops. So how does any of that factor into your cure?
What you're saying isn't scientific, and attempting to shame and bully people into believing your religion is counterproductive.
Want to prove something? Then do so in a controlled, scientific experiment with a proper hypothesis, study of results, and theory.
I'm not a fan of Big Pharma. But not because of what they produce. Because of how they operate, but for all that, I'm damn happy with the drugs I get prescribed/take.
Amy's posted the Fat Head talk - most of that was what I knew 10 years ago, re: sugar, but the rest of the talk was pure gold, and pointed out some things that I *knew* but hadn't fully assimilated as knowledge yet.
The problem with Big Pharma isn't that their wares don't do as they say - they do.
Very, very, very well. The problem is the organic whole of the system might not work well with the changes that they make. (Re: Lower cholesterol. Oh, we can. Very, very, very well. So much we can kill the hell out of people - but their cholesterol is correctly low!)
They've tested their products very well, very effectively. They can tell you *why* they work.
And I'll take that over testimonial preaching anyday. So will all "reasonably intelligent people". That's how you can tell they're reasonably intelligent.
[Drat. went to tell the joke about the homeopath who overdosed, and forgot Radwaste beat me to it.]
Unix-Jedi at May 17, 2011 10:41 AM
TO: Amy Alkon, et al.
RE: Yeah...Right....
Chuck, homeopathy has been proven to be a load of crap. -- Amy Alkon
And you believe—out of hand—everything you read.
Not even willing to accept a simple gift that might topple your world-belief in the modern priesthood of the AMA.
I'm suddenly reminded of the people of the Middle Ages, standing in the church and listening to the priest tell them that the Earth is the center of the Universe.
Give me an address and I'll send you $7. You can do with it as you deem 'fit'.
However, I ask you. Wouldn't it be worth your while to be able to call me a 'liar'?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[We have not lost faith, but we have transferred it from God to the medical profession. -- George Bernard Shaw]
P.S. In the meantime, this household can heal bad burns with a trace of a bug God put on Earth....
....and a LOT of other problems, e.g., gout, flu, etc.
I even know of a cure for cancer. I've seen it work. Maybe I'll get the lady to post a testimonial here about it.....
Ever see the Sean Connery movie, Medicine Man?
Chuck Pelto at May 17, 2011 3:06 PM
"And you believe—out of hand—everything you read."
Well, you're now officially an idiot.
Not only have you just accused the queen of research of not doing any, you haven't noticed that her address is public. It's published on her page, in every alt-weekly she appears in.
This is right in line with what you've done to this point: simply generate more attention for yourself. "Oh, look at the moron, pity him and set him straight," people might say. Well, except for family. At least, those members not slicking themselves with Vaseline to keep the tinfoil in place.
I can only guess you're getting the kind of attention here that Mommy would never give you, because you're just not rational. I hope you're not a danger to yourself and others to the degree suggested by your feigned gullibility. I can guess that you've just been careful to aggravate for your own sport, so it's possible that rather than in idiot or plain liar, you're just being an ass. That would be in line with what got you banned last time.
I won't miss you, and I won't consider anything you have to post because it's not communication. You're just beating off on the keyboard. Hope this one's... ummm... waterproof.
Don't make noises like in that Meg Ryan scene. You'll scare the cat.
Radwaste at May 17, 2011 6:29 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Speaking of 'Proofs'....
....please cite the 'proofs' you so fervently believe.
URLs would be appreciated.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....one way or another....]
Chuck Pelto at May 17, 2011 7:10 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2145869">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, I'm not your headslave. Search "homeopathy" in the blog search engine to your left and you'll find countless posts on it.
This cool thing called "Google" is also a very good source. Combine "Homeopathy" and "skepticism" and you should find plenty.
Amy Alkon at May 17, 2011 7:38 PM
He's just trolling. Osama be unto him.
Radwaste at May 18, 2011 2:27 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Where On EARTH....
....I'm not your headslave. -- Amy Alkon
....did I EVER suggest such?
RE: Googlie Goo
Search "homeopathy" in the blog search engine to your left and you'll find countless posts on it. -- Amy Alkon
I've been there. And, as you never answer questions I ask of you, in this instance, I'll point out that a good number of those 'research' institutions have ties to the AMA or the pharm companies. People who have a vested interest in saying homeopathy doesn't work. Otherwise, they'd loose income.
Additionally, today we have THIS observation....
http://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2011/05/yeah-but-they-keep-changing-their-minds.html
The title itself is so very apropos to our discussion....
Yeah, but they keep changing their minds
RE: My Latest Offer
You asked me to send you the money. So when I offered to, why don't you give me a mailing address?
Afraid the money might be tainted with a miniscule trace of something that everyone tells you can't possibly have any effect on you?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth is coming out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 18, 2011 12:20 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2147383">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, I asked you to send me money via PayPal.
If you want to send me money to my mailing address, it's also at the contact link.
Amy Alkon
171 Pier Ave #280
Santa Monica CA 90405
And thanks, in advance, to anyone will write to caution me that I shouldn't be giving out my home address, but I'm not a moron, and I don't live in a 5 x 17 x 8 locking metal container on Pier, but that is where I get my mail.
Amy Alkon at May 18, 2011 12:26 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2147387">comment from Chuck PeltoAdditionally, if you don't think those who own the companies that put out homeopathic medicine (like those at Boiron, in France) are raking money in and jetting from mansion to mansion to yacht...well, send me $500 and I'll say a little prayer for your spleen.
Amy Alkon at May 18, 2011 12:27 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: PayPal?
I don't DO 'PayPal'. Something to do with a bad taste they left in my mouth years ago.
But I'll send you the money at the address you've provided.
RE: It's NOT JUST RITALIN....
Drugs For Critically Ill In Short Supply....
Some Hospitals Consider Rationing -- article at http://www.wsmv.com/news/27946067/detail.html
This is just the beginning.
I'm reminded of a novel by J.R. Halderman, The Forever War. Written in the 1970s, it hypothesized this development.
I see it as an opportunity for people to learn about homeopathy. As the government won't allow people to get the FDA-approved meds they need, they'll turn to alternatives. And, in the process discover that homeopathy REALLY WORKS for many situations.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 6:41 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Heh
if you don't think those who own the companies that put out homeopathic medicine (like those at Boiron, in France) are raking money in and jetting from mansion to mansion to yacht...well, send me $500 and I'll say a little prayer for your spleen. -- Amy Alkon
And just WHAT is the difference between the CEO of Boiron and some FDA-approved pharm such as Pfizer? And what does that prove with regard to the efficacy of homeopathy?
Nada....
On the other had, I don't see your response to my item w/link to how the people in the 'scientific' community keep changing their minds.
Remember the 70s? When were were told:
[1] Don't eat eggs.
[2] Don't drink alcohol.
More recently:
[3] Don't do salt.
All supported by 'scientific research'.
Now all turned on their heads.
Keep listening to the modern 'priesthood'. In the meantime, we who know better from personal experience (1) save money and (2) live better.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Use what works....]
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 6:47 AM
P.S. As for the $500 prayer offer....
[1] I can pray better myself.
[2] I don't think God cares much to listen to prayers of atheists.
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 6:50 AM
P.P.S. The money is enroute.
P.P.P.S. Still no reply to my query, from the fine people at JREF. I'm beginning to suspect that THEY are the fraud they claim others to be. It's called 'projection'.
If someone could get them to reply to my e-mail of 11 May 2011, I'd appreciate it.
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 7:43 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2150035">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, nobody owes you an email. There's plenty of information on the Internet (go to Respectful Insolence and Science-Based Medicine, for example). Go look it up. If you want to live according to evidence, you see whether there's evidence for your beliefs. There's none, NONE that homeopathy works as anything more than a placebo for the gullible.
Amy Alkon at May 19, 2011 8:00 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: JREF....
....owes me an answer to my query to them, vis-a-vis radwaste.
If they don't answer my query, they are—in my honestly held opinion—a fraud.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Only fraud and falsehood dread examination. Truth invites it. -- Samuel Johnson]
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 10:19 AM
P.S. I 'invite' you to test the truth of my statements.
Why you refuse is an interesting question.
Chuck Pelto at May 19, 2011 10:20 AM
Forget the troll, dear. He's just showing off for Mommy or something. But look at all the attention he's gotten! Woot!
Now it's time to use this line from NYPD Blue:
"My idea's when I hear an ass out in the field braying, I don't feel any deep need to start braying back."
Worthless, this guy.
Radwaste at May 19, 2011 4:24 PM
TO: All
RE: A Parthian Shot
He's just showing off for Mommy or something. -- Radwaste
Heh. I was jumping C130s before his father learned how to jump a prom date.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Still no response from JREF....
Chuck Pelto at May 20, 2011 8:30 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Okay....
....having done a search on your blog for 'homeopathy', I can appreciate your reticence at even attempting the 'proof' I proposed.
To admit that you'd even attempt such would be tantamount to denial of all you've written about homeopathy heretofore.
Interest.....
Goes far in explaining a LOT.
However, I'm reminded of a statement by a famous philosopher about such thinks....
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do YOU do?
And, in light of your recent posts about concerns regarding statins and other things the AMA and FDA are so fond of, I have to wonder at just WHY you continue to abide by what THEY—this modern 'priesthood' of medicine—are telling you to be the 'Truth' about health care....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Science is Truth. Don't be confuse by the 'facts'....which you have yet to prove to yourself.]
P.S. Go ahead....take the statins.....
Chuck Pelto at May 20, 2011 2:31 PM
TO: All
RE: C130s
They sang me to sleep when I was a young man in barracks at Fort Bragg, in the 1970s.
Today, they STILL do the same 'service' as they practice touch-and-goes. Their final approach to their target airbase goes directly over my house.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You haven't lived until you've almost died.]
Chuck Pelto at May 20, 2011 2:40 PM
TO: All
RE: Heh
Festinger was fascinated by how we deal with information that fails to match up to our beliefs, and suspected that we are strongly motivated to resolve the conflict--a state of mind he called "cognitive dissonance." -- Article on AGB
Sounds to me a LOT like Amy's approach to the 'cognitive dissonance' between her hatred of the way the pharm companies and the AMA 'treat' people these days and her more vehement hatred of homeopathy.
Go fig....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Pot....meet Kettle....]
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 12:04 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2157649">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, feel free to squat and squeeze out your own thoughts, but refrain from trying to express mine.
"Hatred" is silly. I don't "hate" anyone. I think that a decision to take a particular medicine should be based on whether there's evidence that it actually does what it claims to and that the risks of taking this medicine are outweighed by the benefits.
There is no proof that homeopathic medicine does anything more than separate fools and their money (save for the placebo effect). Anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything -- although it offering it as proof does suggest that you do not understand scientific standards of evidence.
Amy Alkon at May 21, 2011 12:19 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: All I Can Do Is Attempt to Understand Your....
...Cognitive Dissonance.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
P.S. Hatred is what you express for anything that has anything to do with homeopathy. And, likewise, you're expressing hatred for what you perceive of the AMA and FDA of late.
It's not MY 'problem'. But it IS interesting to watch your conflicted views.
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 12:25 PM
P.P.S. The only reason there is no 'proof' of homeopathic efficacy is your (1) adherence to the FDA/AMA...which for some odd reason you also 'hate' of late and (2) unwillingness to 'see' it for yourself.
It's a classic example of 'cognitive dissonance'.
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 12:32 PM
P.P.P.S. So...
....I take it your resorting to vulgarity, albeit more genteel than I've seen in the past, is an indication that I'm hitting close to the proverbial 'target'.
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 12:34 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2157729">comment from Chuck PeltoP.P.P.S. So... ....I take it your resorting to vulgarity, albeit more genteel than I've seen in the past, is an indication that I'm hitting close to the proverbial 'target'.
It's a sign that you're annoying.
Chuck, you're a blog comment grandstander. While others here generate discussion that often advances thinking on a topic (in a way that can be pretty exciting), you posts generally seem to be about aggrandizing you. You don't seem to ever take in anything being said here -- you just hammer away, obstinately posting the same points here over and over again. It's boring and it sometimes ruins comment strings here. I don't imagine this will get through to you, either, come to think of it.
Again: There is no proof homeopathy does anything other than separate fools and their money and offer a placebo effect for some. If you have proof -- randomized, blinded, case-controlled studies (a body of them, not just one) -- feel free to present it. Otherwise, your endless bleating of the exact same thought in slightly different forms is not appreciated. If you can't connect with others' thinking or apply reason, you should find somebody else's blog on which to drop these gems of yours.
Amy Alkon at May 21, 2011 1:41 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Wrong....
Chuck, you're a blog comment grandstander. -- Amy Alkon
....I'm what is called in the US Army, 'focused on the objective'.
There's no 'grand standing about it'.
You can go ahead and claim there is no 'proof' of the efficacy of homeopathy. However, in the meantime, I find it fascinating that you decry the actions of the AMA-FDA in denying people the medications they need to even live.
Whereas, as I've repeatedly offered you an opportunity to broaden your perspective of medicine, you flat-out refuse to even attempt such an opportunity.
THAT, is classic 'cognitive dissonance'.
And, by the way, since when is offering an opportunity to prove or disprove the current priesthood's approach to medicine NOT an example of how to "generate discussion that often generates thinking"?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Again....
....your 'cognitive dissonance' is showing.....
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 2:17 PM
P.P.S. 'Killing' me will only be more proof that you are afraid of what I'm offering you....free of charge.....
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 2:19 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2157775">comment from Chuck PeltoP.P.S. 'Killing' me will only be more proof that you are afraid of what I'm offering you....free of charge.....
Abject tedium doesn't frighten me, but your comment suggests you know you've crossed the line, but lack the impulsivity control to behave otherwise. Really, there's nobody who's banned from more comments sections, Chuck, save for Romanians posting "little blue pill" spam.
Amy Alkon at May 21, 2011 2:51 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Frightening Experiences
Abject tedium doesn't frighten me... -- Amy Alkon
I should hope not. Otherwise, feminism has REALLY gone awry.
RE: Crossing the Line
....your comment suggests you know you've crossed the line.... -- Amy Alkon
Strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you can ever imagine. -- a REAL Jedi
Do as you wish. It's your web-site. But 'killing' me will only support my claim of your REAL fear.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 21, 2011 5:54 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2157894">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, you do have some of the qualities of an engorged tick, but I find it unlikely that you've taken up residence on my scalp and are boring into my brain and are thus able to report on what's within.
Amy Alkon at May 21, 2011 5:57 PM
"P.P.S. 'Killing' me will only be more proof that you are afraid of what I'm offering you....free of charge....."
Hi, ass. Rad here, justifying your pitiful existence on-line yet again.
Know anything yet? No? Of course not. You haven't given the first sign you even know what "proof" is. Bereft of logic, capable only of emulating Pee-Wee Herman in inane "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" chanting now that your bluff has been called with all reason, the only thing that remains for you is to note that your personal reputation is now in the shitcan.
It doesn't matter, on the Web, where you're an idiot. It rapidly becomes obvious.
My goodness, I hope Chuck Pelto isn't your real name. Web searches will eventually show the planet just how empty your skull is.
Amy, just cut this out. This nit can go sell himself to every gullible fool with a copy of Sylvia Browne's evil crap on their shelf, and not waste your time. That's his only goal. Make him stop or make him pay, he's not interested in reason.
And if he has written to JREF (no reason to believe Chuck about anything now), DJ Grothe (when he stops laughing) will simply pwn him, exactly as I or Unix-Jedi have here and would in any public place.
Chuck, if you really want to make a public spectacle of yourself and can't get any satisfaction from e-mail, you can try your stellar wit in front of a couple of thousand people in a conference hall at DragonCon. JREF will be there.
You will get your ass handed to you, Chuck(les), and very publicly. You'll cry and kick your feet, because you can't change the subject and dodge in front of the live audience, as you have here. You are fundamentally dishonest and a disgrace to the service you've claimed. You can't lie to people who know physics, chemistry, and how people are fooled. That's why you're not getting anywhere here.
And so, you should go somewhere else. Other blogs tolerate ignorant people who spread lies. You can find a place with them and brag about how you're such a hero.
You'll even fool somebody. Wow, won't that make the world a better place (No).
Radwaste at May 21, 2011 9:50 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Well....
....it's YOUR blog-site. You can 'kill' anyone you wish. However, it does reflect on your personality.
For instance, your advertisement for that book you wrote, "I See Rude People".
Rude people must be those who don't hold the same world-view as you. And insist that your view is in error. And can prove it. Neh?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 22, 2011 8:14 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2159442">comment from Chuck PeltoNot surprisingly, after deciding what I think, you decide what my book says -- and never mind actually reading it.
Amy Alkon at May 22, 2011 8:23 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2159460">comment from Chuck PeltoYou can 'kill' anyone you wish. However, it does reflect on your personality.
Other than members of a mob that came over here to try to screw up the discussion here, I have banned maybe five people here. You were one of them. I only banned you after about 20 people, by email and in the comments, begged me to do it. You've now snuck back under a new IP.
Think of all the people here who don't get banned, who criticize me and my thinking in all sorts of ways. And only you and about four other people have gotten banned. Hmm...does it reflect on my "personality" -- or yours?
Amy Alkon at May 22, 2011 8:34 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: B[u]y the Book
You send me an signed copy of the book and I'll send you several materia medica, including cantharis, coffea cruda and chamomilla. The latter two help me to get back to sleep at night when I wake up with a busy head. The former of the two for spurious thoughts about this-that-and-the-other, going round-and-round. The latter of the two for a more focused matter.
Certainly someone with as busy a head as yours MUST have nights when they wish they could get to sleep again after waking up for a potty-break.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Reflections....
Who are these 'others' you've banned. I'd like to exchange notes with them.
Chuck Pelto at May 22, 2011 8:41 AM
P.P.S. The mailing address is on the check you should see sometime this coming week.
Chuck Pelto at May 22, 2011 8:44 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2159490">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, I'm not a fulfillment center; I'm an author. If you want to read the book, kindly buy one off Amazon from the link to your right. It's only $11.53, brand new, with Amazon's discount at the link. (New copies go against my advance, and help me keep writing...and eating.)
Amy Alkon at May 22, 2011 8:53 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2159492">comment from Amy AlkonAnd I have no interest in taking any "drugs" that are not necessary for me or shown to work through tests and that have benefits that outweigh the risks. (In the case of using homeopathy, there's a very real side-effect of having to tell myself I'm stupid.)
Amy Alkon at May 22, 2011 8:55 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: 'Stupid'?
My working definition of that term is....
Ignorant and proud of it.
By the way, the three vials would outweigh the cost of your book. And probably be more effective than it as well.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- John Wayne]
Chuck Pelto at May 22, 2011 10:16 AM
"By the way, the three vials would outweigh the cost of your book. And probably be more effective than it as well."
Only if your intended marks were thirsty.
It's just water.
Go get your million dollars.
Radwaste at May 22, 2011 5:02 PM
TO: All
RE: More....
....of....
Ignorant and proud of it.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If they only had a brain....]
Chuck Pelto at May 22, 2011 6:59 PM
Water, Chuck(les).
Go get your million dollars.
Or, not.
But there's only one reason you won't.
Radwaste at May 24, 2011 4:12 PM
TO: All
RE: One Reason....
....I can't get $1M from JREF....
....he won't respond to e-mails.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Based on that, JREF—in my honestly held opinion—is as much a fraud as he claims everyone else is.
Chuck Pelto at May 25, 2011 6:51 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2174427">comment from Chuck PeltoI did get your $7 Chuck. Thanks. Always appreciate money. This will buy me some coffee today as I'm writing.
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2011 7:18 AM
JREF is not a "he".
You might also check their schedule. Oh, wait - does this mean I have to hold the genius's little hand and show him where to click, again?
Is there no end to error in your world?
Given what you think passes for reasoning, and that you said above that you offered a "counter-challenge", you are probably being properly ignored for babbling.
Come to DragonCon. The crowd will find your baseless statements fascinating. Just don't be too insulted when they pay more attention to the Night Elf in the hall.
Because it's just water. Nothing more.
If it was more than that, you could go get your million dollars. Whining isn't going to do it, because whining isn't proof that what you claim happens.
No, it's not. And you know it.
Because you won't use my 49X gasoline. You ignored it. You must be a fraud, because you won't use my homeopathic gasoline. It's diluted in triple-distilled water which is mineral-free, too.
Isn't this fun?
Radwaste at May 26, 2011 4:26 PM
TO: All
RE: JREF
James Randi is not a 'he'? Certainly looks like a 'he' at his web-site. Interesting. Did 'she' have a sex-change procedure?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. DragonCon? As in 'Satan'? How apropos....
Chuck Pelto at May 27, 2011 5:26 AM
No, genius. The JREF is not just one person.
There is no limit to what you do not know.
By the way, every moment you spend here not only confirms you have nothing useful to offer, it also means you're not peddling quackery to others. Win-win for reasoning people.
It's just water, Chuck.
Well, that and lying. That part you've proven. How far will you go for the imagined slight of having offended a blogger and trying to avenge that?
Radwaste at May 27, 2011 6:23 AM
Chuck is all about Chuck's ego gratification.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2011 6:24 AM
TO: All
RE: Talk About....
Chuck is all about Chuck's ego gratification. -- Amy Alkon
...'projection'.....
Amy, What have I got to gain by healing your 'wounds'? That is compared to what you gain? And why is attempting such 'evil'?
All I'm attempting is to overcome YOUR 'ignorance'. And it's simple enough to prove to yourself....IF you have the courage to step out of the box you've put yourself into. And THERE is the proverbial 'challenge'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at May 27, 2011 4:51 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: Just 'Water'
Yeah....
....and I can cure gout attacks with it.
Ever have a 16-penny nail drive through your foot? It's an 'interesting' sensation. Especially when it can last for days....and sleepless nights.
Call me when you have such an experience. Maybe I can help. God knows the AMA can't help....without you wasting hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars in their fruitless efforts.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[It's just YOU and the PAIN....]
P.S. I can empathize with Christ at Golgatha....
Chuck Pelto at May 27, 2011 4:57 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2185408">comment from Chuck PeltoAll I'm attempting is to overcome YOUR 'ignorance'.
My "ignorance" in requiring evidence before believing in something? Yeah, I'm a world class dumbshit.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2011 5:21 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: Dargonco
Noa that I'm wrapping up chairing a state-level convention, I've time to venture into your 'dragons lair'.
What's the URL?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[When you see a good fight....get in it!]
Chuck pelto at May 27, 2011 5:25 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Yeah....Right....
I offer you 'evidence' and you refuse it.
who's more the 'ignorant'?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Chuck Pelto at May 27, 2011 5:30 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2185589">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, there's no evidence that homeopathy is anything but a means for separating fools and their money and maybe an example of the placebo effect at work. You've presented no evidence, and your warm fuzzy feeling that it works is not evidence of anything other than a lack of rationality on your part.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2011 5:54 PM
Look - Chuck is just playing, being an ass, that's all. Better to look at THIS.
Reality. What a concept. Ok, Chuck, say something else ridiculous.
Radwaste at May 27, 2011 8:28 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Can't....
Chuck, there's no evidence that homeopathy is anything but a means for separating fools and their money.... -- Amy Alkon
....do BETTER than repeating the silly ignorance you've stated so oft before?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[There is none so blind as they who WILL NOT 'see'....]
Chuck Pelto at May 29, 2011 12:33 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: Heh
What's the matter?
Afraid to give the the URL to the place you dared me to go?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated. -- George Bernard Shaw]
Chuck Pelto at May 29, 2011 12:35 PM
P.S. I can understand the fear you must feel in giving me that URL.
Someone there might actually have the courage to take me up on my offer about cantharis. And then, having learned the truth of the matter, call you some form of 'foolish' person.
You remind me of those people at JREF....talk a big fight, but when it comes down to where the tread meets the pavement.....nothing.....
Chuck Pelto at May 29, 2011 12:37 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2191049">comment from Chuck PeltoPer Carl Sagan, those making extraordinary claims must provide evidence.
There is none. There's only a lot of huffing and puffing in memo form.
Amy Alkon at May 29, 2011 1:04 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2191053">comment from Chuck PeltoP.P.S. Chuck, nobody's feeling fear. But, cute that you want to believe that, ever keeping that forcefield up so as to prevent anybody's calls to rational and evidence-based thought never penetrate your preconceived notions.
Amy Alkon at May 29, 2011 1:07 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Well Then....
....let's see Radwaste give me a URL.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I offer you evidence you can see for yourself and you refuse to even look.
Ever read Niven and Pournelle's 'Inferno'?
Your approach to Life reminds me of the poor souls in the First Circle who refuse to even look at the evidence provided them. Instead of listening, discussing and examining the arguments and evidence presented by the protagonists, they throw them out....
Education replaces an empty mind with an open one.
But apparently not in all cases....these days....
Chuck Pelto at May 29, 2011 3:12 PM
TO: All
RE: Heh
Apparently Radwaste is 'sick'.....one way or another....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
P.S. It's Memorial Day and being (1) twenty-seven years in the infantry, (2) airborne-ranger, (3) 100% Viking-blood and (4) ENTJ by the MBTI, I'm in the mood for knock-down/drag-out 'discussion', while sitting here (1) waiting for the meat of tonight's feast to marinate, (2) smoking some fine tobacco and (3) indulging in a goodly scotch.
And Radwaste is not 'accommodating' by providing an arena of HIS choice in which I'm willing to engage any and all 'comers'.
Why IS that? He's either (1) 'sick'...which I can understand, having a serious bout with something rather 'rude' over the last four days or (2) 'cowardly'....which in my honestly held opinion is another form of 'sick'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Life is full of surprises. Many of which are under-appreciated.]
Chuck Pelto at May 30, 2011 10:44 AM
P.S. I'll also allow for being 'on vacation'.
After all, it IS that sort of weekend.....
Have a fine one....wherever you find yourself. And while you're at it, please hoist a glass of whatever in the memory of all those men and women who gave of themselves so that we can freely express ourselves in such a venue as this.
In honor of my Father and my Uncles!!!! God rest their souls.....on this the day we remember their sacrifices.
Chuck Pelto at May 30, 2011 11:43 AM
I'd be ashamed to be in a unit you claimed as yours - unless the backstory includes your being ejected.
Enjoy.
Radwaste at May 31, 2011 6:47 PM
P.S. I can understand the fear you must feel in giving me that URL.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to quacks.
Quacks lead to sugar pills.
Sugar pills lead to diabetes.
Not really a good path.
I offer you 'evidence' and you refuse it.
who's more the 'ignorant'?
What evidence have you offered, other than a trial by fire that could lead to horrible, debilitating injuries (and if you were to for some scientific reason, refuse to submit to modern medical care and pharmaceuticals, even potentially death)?
Why don't you explain how your cures only contain effective ingredients to cure what ails you, and not anything detrimental with all the other essences? That would be useful, more so than grabbing a hot pan. I've done that, it's not fun. I was lucky. I've seen someone who did that, and their hand *stuck* to the handle.
Seared their hand quite nicely, just like it would have the pork chop.
Unix-Jedi at June 1, 2011 6:09 AM
TO: Radwaste
RE: Heh
I'd be ashamed to be in a unit you claimed as yours.... -- Radwaste
I have serious doubts as to your ability to even BE in such a unit as the 1st Battalion (Airborne) 508th Infantry.
But do prove me wrong. And visit your local Army recruiter.....go for one of the 504s or 505s or 325ths, instead.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I'd rather be a baby in the belly of a whore;
Than to be a paratrooper in the 504. -- 82d Airborne 'jodie', sung at the double-time while passing a formation carrying a 504th guidon.]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 8:40 AM
TO: All
RE: As Expected....
....Radwaste is too afraid to provide a link to the place he asked me to visit at DragonCon. The link provided by Radwaste only goes to another of Amy Alkon's polemics about how homeopathy is ineffective.
And yet, Amy, too, is afraid. She won't accept my free offer to test it for herself. She just takes other peoples' word on it. Like the peasants of listening to priests in the Dark Ages.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 8:43 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2201053">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, nobody's "afraid."
Feel free to present evidence of homeopathy's effectiveness as anything more than a placebo.
The person who makes extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary evidence, per Carl Sagan. You claim these sugar pills work. Instead of providing evidence, you post and repost and repost that everyone's "afraid."
I'm afraid of dying painfully, of Gregg or anyone else I care about getting sick, dying, or suffering, I'm afraid Muslims will take over the planet and and instill Sharia law and make America and other Western countries repressive, rights-free territories like Muslim countries are. Oh, and every time I sit down at the computer to write my column or my book, I live in terror that what I'm writing will suck. I'm very comfortable listing my fears. You and posting a link aren't among them.
Amy Alkon at June 1, 2011 9:00 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Heh
Chuck, nobody's "afraid." -- Amy Alkon
I'm afraid of dying painfully, of Gregg or anyone else I care about getting sick, dying, or suffering, I'm afraid Muslims will take over the planet and and instill Sharia law and make America and other Western countries repressive, rights-free territories like Muslim countries are. -- Amy Alkon
So you ARE 'afraid', after all.
Well. All I'm trying to do is to get people, including you, to step/think outside of the box that our friends in the American medical industry have got you into.
What's to fear in THAT? Especially when everyone you seem to listen to tells you that what I'm offering you couldn't hurt your because of too few molecules?
I've told you that this can alleviate suffering. And I've offered a simple test you can prove for yourself.
Feel free to present evidence of homeopathy's effectiveness as anything more than a placebo. -- Amy Alkon
I'll send you a vial of the cantharis, at the address I sent that check. Just keep it in your medicine cabinet against any unfortunate accident while cooking/baking/candle-making/etc.
Oh, and every time I sit down at the computer to write my column or my book, I live in terror that what I'm writing will suck. -- Amy Alkon
According to reports from reliable sources....
Writing is more and more a terror to old scribes. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
So, as you mature, you'd better gird up your loins.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The only think we have to fear, is fear itself. -- Sir Winston Churchill, another great writer, as well as statesman]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 9:27 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2201119">comment from Chuck PeltoWell. All I'm trying to do is to get people, including you, to step/think outside of the box that our friends in the American medical industry have got you into. What's to fear in THAT?
Chuck, quit dancing around the giant pile of bullshit you keep shoveling and reshoveling.
Provide evidence instead of huffing away that everyone's afraid.
Amy Alkon at June 1, 2011 10:00 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: In the First Place....
Chuck, quit dancing around the giant pile of bullshit you keep shoveling and reshoveling. -- Amy Alkon
....it's not, repeat NOT, 'bullshit'. And the only reason YOU claim it is, is because you only listen to the modern 'priesthood', like some Dark Ages peasant. You're supposedly an intelligent person. And yet you only listen and believe what other people tell you? How VERY 'odd'.
Especially when you can prove or disprove something in the safety and comfort of your own home.
You stated earlier that you fear suffering and pain. Well....I'm telling you there are some ways you can avoid such. And yet....for some very strange reason, e.g., cognitive disonatic reason, you refuse to even LOOK at the possibility.
This, despite the fact that the main purpose of this topical thread is about the ever-increasing lack of proper FDA-approved meds. Now THAT IS 'odd'.
So if you, or someone else, can't find the medication they need to avoid 'suffering' and 'pain', what are they going to do? Suffer? In pain? Or will they take a more enlightened self-interest approach and seek out alternatives to 'suffering' and 'pain'?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. The vial of cantharis will be in the mail by Friday. Take heart....there IS help against 'suffering' and 'pain'.
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 10:36 AM
TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: Oh?
What evidence have you offered, other than a trial by fire that could lead to horrible, debilitating injuries.... -- Unix-Jedi
A few molecules that likely don't even exist in a high dilution of homeopathy can "lead to horrible debilitating injuries"??!?!??!
Interesting. First people say it can't have any POSSIBLE effect and they YOU claim it can lead to "HORRIBLE DEBILITATING INJURIES".
How VERY 'odd'.
You can't have it both ways, my young, inexperienced 'jedi'. It is either one way or the other. You cannot have both. Otherwise, you look the fool.
So which is it? Is it ineffective because the number of active-agent molecules is so small as to be useless? Or is it a danger on a par with a 'good' whiff of hydrogen-sulfide?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Give me a mailing address and I'll send you some cantharis too....that is if you actually cook for yourself and 'friends', as opposed to ordering from Papa Johns.....
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 10:46 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2201208">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck. Two words: Provide. Evidence.
Amy Alkon at June 1, 2011 10:55 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: The 'Evidence'....
Chuck. Two words: Provide. Evidence. -- Amy Alkon
....will be with you next week.
The REAL challenge is personal—on YOUR part—as to whether or not you can live up to claim that you are 'not afraid' of me.
If you ARE 'afraid' of either 'me' or 'homeopathy', please live up to your expression....
I'm very comfortable listing my fears.
....and say as much.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 10:59 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2201243">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, I'm bored by you.
Amy Alkon at June 1, 2011 11:13 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Bored?
Chuck, I'm bored by you. -- Amy Alkon
Take a 'pill'....at the appropriate opportunity.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity. -- George Bernard Shaw]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 11:42 AM
P.S. You have YET to claim you are 'afraid' of homeopathy, so as to claim right of not accepting the challenge I'm sending you.....
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 11:43 AM
P.P.S. I'll accept 'bored' or any other form of obfuscation as being 'afraid'.
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 11:49 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Out of Curiosity....
....and considering your willful unwillingness to even look at homeopathy in a rational manner....
....I have to ask....
....are you deep into some form of medical/FDA-pharm-industry investment? Stocks, perhaps? Something else, a bit more esoteric?
I ask because I've seen this sort of comportment before, in other venues. It's almost identical in nature. It's 'curious'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[One cannot serve two masters. One can either serve mammon or righteousness. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago]
Chuck Pelto at June 1, 2011 11:54 AM
[The only think we have to fear, is fear itself. -- Sir Winston Churchill,
Precious Blood of the Sweet Baby Jesus, the man is not only loony, he is guilty of conflating Churchill and FDR!
Oh well, wtf, they were both WWII heads of state, no worries...
jollyroger at June 1, 2011 8:25 PM
TO: jollyroger
RE: Thanks....
....for the correction.
However, the point still stands.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Seeing my great error,
Through eye-opening coffee,
I begin again. -- Haiku Error Messages]
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 6:25 AM
....and considering your willful unwillingness to even look at homeopathy in a rational manner....
That word doesn't mean what you think it means, Chuckles.
....are you deep into some form of medical/FDA-pharm-industry investment? Stocks, perhaps? Something else, a bit more esoteric?
OHO, SHE'S CORRUPT! That explains everything! It explains why you don't have to actually explain the mechanism, or why only good things occur from your treatment, with no side effects, and no negative outcomes!
Chuck, have you seen where Amy's attacked the current medical establishment for it's dietary advice? She only has been doing that every couple of days.
Or did you just miss that to lock in on her rational, and I use that word deliberately, skepticism of a belief that predates atomic theory?
Rational people reject homeopathy, because it fails scientific testing. It is, however, lucrative, and I think you'd be surprised how much your hated Big Pharma is working homeopaths behind the scenes. Science isn't always right at the moment. The point of science is to get to the right answer, eventually.
Homeopathy isn't on that continuum, it's in the realm of religious faith.
Trying to find "why" (and ignoring their answer to you directly explaining it) someone doesn't believe in water and sugar pills (other than the scientific explanation for placebo) is insulting, rude, and a losing proposition.
No, not everyone is self-aware of their biases, and sometimes one can figure out why someone else doesn't do something. But you're just attacking people with personal attacks and logical fallacies to try and force them to your way of thinking, not understand why they disagree with you, or convince them otherwise.
But it's very interesting, since we're talking about analyzing people and why they think the way that they do, how you're arguing. You're ignoring where homeopathy fails miserably in double-blind studies - which is scientific, yet, you keep trying to claim the mantle of scientific thought, and claim the martyrdom of scientists who sacrificed for knowledge.
You keep talking about "evidence", "rational", how intelligent people should "examine", cast aspersions for being a denier....
You're trying to take the respect and authority of science and use that to bolster something horribly unscientific.
And then you claim to have the educational background to know why that's wrong, and use that to bolster your attempt to do so. Chuck: I'd stop using irrational to describe your opponents. Well, but I am rational, and I know why homeopathy is a crock. I'd suggest you not do it, but I don't think you're able to have the respect for other people it would require.
Unix-Jedi at June 2, 2011 6:26 AM
P.S. I regard Churchill higher than FDR. The former was a statesman. The latter was a mere opportunistic politician who inspired the current occupant of the Oval Office, vis-a-vis mismanagement of the economy.
For whatever purpose remains to be determined.....
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 6:28 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2204175">comment from Unix-JediThank, Unix-Jedi...well-said.
Amy Alkon at June 2, 2011 6:31 AM
However, the point still stands.
No, it doesn't.
It was a rhetorical point, not a factual one. There are a damn lot of things to fear, and fear by far isn't the only one.
As a rhetorical point, it's a great one, "Stay calm, and everything will be fine." But it was used by someone who was actively making things worse, and didn't want people to use the fear of what he was doing, and how he was making things worse, to stop him from his grand plan.
Looked from that historical perspective, the point not only doesn't stand as truth, it's rather sinister in its implications.
The biggest problem with things to fear, is usually, the ones you're not worried for get you, and it's never been, as far as I know, "Fear itself".
People have been "scared to death", but never by the fear of fear.
Unix-Jedi at June 2, 2011 6:32 AM
TO; unix-Jedi
RE: Worse?
Yeah. Reducing pain and suffering ALWAYS makes things 'worse'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Chuck pelto at June 2, 2011 6:57 AM
Chuck:
Are you alive, or just an ELIZA-bot?
Do you have *any* comprehension of what you're saying, or are you just cutting and pasting?
You used a line from FDR, which was rhetorically brilliant, but historically disastrous. You said "the point stands". There was no point. I can point that out, and divorce that from the rest of your homeopathic beliefs. (Just talking from a historical perspective.)
Reducing pain and suffering is a very noble affair. So why are you so denigrating of the very people who can successfully, and scientifically demonstrate how to do it?
I've got my gripes with "modern medicine", to be sure. You want to peddle quite literally water, charging people for nothing, while attacking those who produce something that's quantifiable, if not perfect.
Products that would have been considered real magic back when homeopathy was emitting it's first quacks, doctors were bleeding patients, and going from examining corpses to delivering babies that died, as well as the mothers, and alchemists were still trying to turn lead into gold.
Because for all it's foibles, failures, fractures, and fakes, modern medicine has followed a scientific process towards _learning how things work_.
Not a fake one, but a real one. Big Pharma can tell you exactly how hydrocodone works. You can't tell us how your ground-up insect that once might have touched one of the molecules you've ingested does anything. Or how only the "good" effects impart to the water. Or - well, anything other than you believe in it.
And modern medicine has a term for that. Many studies have been done on it.
The bigger issue that your latest brings up is does homeopathic remedy reduce pain and suffering?
Does it? All the time? Can you prove it?
Can you even argue the devils advocacy point that it's worthless water, being sold to the gullible?
What of the people who could have been easily helped by Big Pharma, but spent years and fortunes chasing homeopathic "cures"?
http://www.news.com.au/national/babys-eczema-death-was-parents-fault/story-e6frfkvr-1225708504277
Did Big Pharma or homeopathy make that 'worse'?
But all of that aside, what Roosevelt said pablum that sounded great.
I'm somewhat not surprised you took it at face value, for some reason.
Unix-Jedi at June 2, 2011 8:58 AM
TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: Heh
Does it? All the time? Can you prove it? -- Unix-Jedi
Sure. Depending on the nature of the situation and the availability of the proper materia medica.
Give me a mailing address and I'll send you a vial of cantharis. It's good for burns. But not for gout. Or many other maladies.
Come on, young jedi. Show the courage of the appellation. What are you 'afraid' of? Finding out that your world-view vis-a-vis the vaunted American medical-industrial complex, is not as sound as you would like to believe?
All you have to lose is your ignorance. And at no cost to yourself.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The proof of the pudding...and all that....]
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 1:16 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2206894">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, what you're being asked to provide, over and over again, is data-based evidence that homeopathy works. As they say in epidemiology, "the plural of anecdote is not data." We'll save you a trip to Google. There isn't any, other than it working as a placebo on the gullible.
Amy Alkon at June 2, 2011 1:26 PM
P.S. About people who have tried homeopathy and it didn't work for them....
Probably poor diagnosis of symptoms. I've experienced that myself.
Unlike Big-Pharm's approach to medicine, we are not all so many 'round pegs' for their board of prescriptions.
Case in point....
I did a bad thing in the kitchen. I applied the 10-second rule to a piece of tastie meat just in from the grill. The next day I began belching in a most disagreeable manner.
I went to my GP and saw his PA. The PA prescribed some commonly applied stomach 'inhibitor' agent. I believe it was Prevacid.
I, in blind faith, accepted it and started taking it. Within several days I developed Central Sleep Apnea. You either wake up gasping for air, because your brain forgot to tell your lungs to breath while you're asleep. Or you wake up dead the next day. Or like Terri Schiavo.....
I called the maker of this 'drug' after reading the VERY FINE PRINT, which said "sleep disorders". They refused to admit that central sleep apnea was one of the "sleep disorders".
I stopped taking it. However, the problem of getting to sleep persisted.
This 'drug' may work on some people, but it sure as Hell doesn't work for everyone.
Homeopathy is like that too. But unlike Big-Pharm, homeopathy admits to it. And, when practiced properly, it takes into account ALL the symptoms an individual is suffering before prescribing a materia medica.
So, if Big-Pharm or some other affiliate is 'testing' homeopathy, it likely thinks that one materia medica will cure all similar ailments, e.g., colds, flues, earaches, toothaches, etc., etc., etc. As the old proverb goes....
A craftsman who has only a hammer as a tool will treat all work as if dealing with nails.
So....
Give me a mailing address. Even a general delivery one will do fine.
P.P.S. I see you didn't bother to answer my challenge about 'which is it'....
[1] Homeopathic materia medica are so dilute they can't possibly have ANY effect.
Or....
[2] Homeopathic materia medica are so dangers as to be treated as a poisonous gas.
WHICH IS IT?
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 1:27 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: What's the Matter?
Can't believe your own experiences?
Have to have a 'priest' tell you what is 'truth'?
Afraid?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Package is in the mail. Delivery date o/a 6 June, 2011....
Enjoy....
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 1:29 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: An Interesting Idea
There isn't any, other than it working as a placebo on the gullible. -- Amy Alkon
Do you consider yourself 'gullible'?
What is the research on 'gullibility' vs. down-right disbelief vis-a-vis the proverbial 'placebo effect'?
Would someone who disbelieves something be subject to the 'placebo effect'?
Should I send you a vial marked 'cantharis', but all it has are what we call 'blanks'? Pills that have not been exposed to any materia medica?
If you had an burn accident and took the REAL cantharis would it work better than the vial with the 'blanks'? This knowing you loath the idea that homeopathy might actually work?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 1:34 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2206981">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, just provide a link to a body of research that provides substantial evidence that homeopathy works. This isn't about me or gullibility in general. You contend that homeopathy works. Searching the word on this blog provides plentiful evidence it does not. Provide evidence to the contrary. Period.
Amy Alkon at June 2, 2011 1:44 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Heh
If I provided such a link, you'd reject it because it wasn't from some Big-Pharm or other American Medical-Industrial Complex company. [NOTE: I've seen that sort of arg before, dear lady.] So if you won't accept MY 'linked proofs' and I can provide reasonable args as to the conflicts-of-interest from proofs YOU provide, e.g., what Big-Pharm company would want to give up their lucrative business—ripping people off for BIG BUCKS—in order to sell something for $7 a vial? Instead of $600 for a bottle that lasts 3-weeks? That was my mother-in-law's experience dealing with an extremely aggressive squamous carcinoma. And it didn't work for 'beans'. [NOTE: And you accuse the CEO of Boiron of ripping off people?]
Instead, I offer you the chance to prove it TO yourself FOR yourself and BY yourself.
As I asked earlier, what's the matter, you don't believe your own experiences?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Does Gregg do the cooking in your relationship? Keep it for him.....
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 2:34 PM
P.P.S. I notice the Radwaste is still too afraid to provide the url to the place he seemed to want to challenge me to 'open combat' against all comers regarding this matter.
Chuck Pelto at June 2, 2011 2:38 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2207391">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, as someone pointed out just above, I criticize doctors, medical researchers, and others for bad science with regularity.
Let's just end this now: You have no evidence that homeopathy works. This is why you dance around the requests to provide it.
Nobody is "afraid" -- save for being bored senseless and engaging in further idiotic conversation with you on this topic.
Amy Alkon at June 2, 2011 3:09 PM
what Big-Pharm company would want to give up their lucrative business—ripping people off for BIG BUCKS
"Ripping off?"
See, right there, you've lost me. Last month, I had a horrible case of bronchitis. Doctor prescribed Symbicort, which cost $400. Worth every damn penny, 12 hours hours later, I could breathe. I wasn't "ripped off".
But if you want to go there, let's talk about Oscillococcinum.
$20 million dollars are spent buying homeopathic Oscillococcinum yearly. One duck - ONE duck is needed to provide that "remedy".
Who's "ripping off" who here?
Come on, young jedi. Show the courage of the appellation. What are you 'afraid' of? Finding out that your world-view vis-a-vis the vaunted American medical-industrial complex, is not as sound as you would like to believe?
I don't believe in magic. The proof is on you to prove that it works, and you're remarkable unable and unwilling to do anything other than suggest a trial by fire. The potential downsides to that are so extreme, it's not even worth considering - and even then, it still wouldn't be a scientific test.
Should I send you a vial marked 'cantharis', but all it has are what we call 'blanks'? Pills that have not been exposed to any materia medica?
If you had an burn accident and took the REAL cantharis would it work better than the vial with the 'blanks'? This knowing you loath the idea that homeopathy might actually work?
YES. That's a (limited) scientific test. And so far, homeopathy has failed every one it's been subjected to. Its effectiveness is exactly the same as "Placebo", which you're calling "blanks".
...
Gee, it's almost like...
Chuck: if it works for you, that's great. Really. More power to you. Religion does nothing for me either, but I won't tell you how you should worship your imaginary Guy In The Sky. Your business.
But it's really annoying when you try and get in a size battle/subject me to peer pressure. All the cool kids aren't doing it, and even if they were, it's still stupid.
It's water. And sugar.
And you're selling that for $7?
And calling other people out for ripping off people in distress?
Homeopathy is like that too. But unlike Big-Pharm, homeopathy admits to it.
Not if you're any example. You've not explained the inherent contradictions, and insisted on magical thoughts.
But more importantly there, "unlike Big-Pharm?"
Wait. What did you say right before that?
I called the maker of this 'drug' after reading the VERY FINE PRINT, which said "sleep disorders"
So Big-Pharm ran a whole bunch of studies, found sleep disorders, warned you about it, and you accuse them of "not admitting" to side effects and problems?
CHuck, I can't parody you any more than you parody yourself.
And, when practiced properly, it takes into account ALL the symptoms an individual is suffering before prescribing a materia medica.
Damn straight. What has modern medicine given us? I ASK YOU, WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS, I, err, mean, DOCTORS DONE FOR US?
[What's that? oh. OK. OK, OK.]
Ok, Other than antibiotics, antifungals, anti-virals, anti-parasitics, vaccines against smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, rabies, chicken-pox, drugs that will bring you back from stroke, heart attacks, painkillers that allow the body to be opened up without sending poeple into shock and to meter lasting effects of injury...
EXCEPT FOR ALL OF THAT, WHAT HAS MODERN MEDICINE EVER DONE FOR US COMPARED TO "PROPERLY PRACTICED" HOMEOPATHY WITH WATER AND SUGAR?????
Unix-Jedi at June 2, 2011 7:10 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Careful
Nobody is "afraid" -- save for being bored senseless and engaging in further idiotic conversation with you on this topic. -- Amy Alkon
I can 'smell' fear. Even through this medium. Earlier in this thread, you said you are not 'afraid' to state your fears. And in the same missive, you said you were 'not afraid of me'.
So. If you're not afraid of 'me'. You should not be afraid of what I've sent you. Neh?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Courage is your greatest present need.]
Chuck Pelto at June 3, 2011 4:04 PM
TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: Heh
Give me a mailing address, young jedi.....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The proof of the pudding....]
Chuck Pelto at June 3, 2011 4:10 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2213737">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, you sent me a check for $7. I cashed it. There was no fear involved. If you sent me homeopathic bullshit, I'll throw it in the trash. No fear involved. But, no reason to take anything that has not been proven to work, now is there? In fact, I know from my coaching from the epidemiologist that all drugs have side effects. Since this is not a drug but a sugar pill, it still has side effects -- likely, raising my blood sugar a notch, while doing absolutely not a thing more. Garbage, meet homeopathy. Or, I guess I should say, "Garbage, meet garbage."
Amy Alkon at June 3, 2011 5:22 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Heh
Chuck, you sent me a check for $7. I cashed it. There was no fear involved. If you sent me homeopathic bullshit, I'll throw it in the trash. -- Amy Alkon
When was the last time you read The True Believer?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Your 'fear' of the homeopathic being sent to you is blatantly evident to the casual 'intelligent' observer....
Chuck Pelto at June 4, 2011 12:14 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2216292">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, saying I'm afraid doesn't make it so any more than saying you are capable of basic reasoning would make that the case.
Amy Alkon at June 4, 2011 12:19 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Being 'Afraid'
Actually, you're actions will speak volumes as opposed to any words you offer in defense of your actions.
RE: About 'Gullibility'
You said, earlier, that only the "gullible" would use homeopathy.
So.....
....is the Royal Family of the United Kingdom a bunch of 'gullible' boobs? They use homeopathic techniques....when they are called for.
If you say so, I'll pass that on to the security forces in the UK. Maybe they'll put you on the same list as Michael Savage.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Just because the AMA says something, doesn't mean the rest of the world is 'gullible' enough to take them at their 'word'......
Chuck Pelto at June 4, 2011 3:39 PM
P.P.S. Soooooo.....
....what is there about homeopathy that you're afraid to take the cantharis.
As I pointed out to our young 'jedi' friend, most of the 'official research' I've seen about homeopathy says there is so little of the active agent in a pill that it is ineffectual. Nothing to be afraid of.
What are you afraid of from something that the vaunted 'priesthood' of the American medical-industrial complex says can't possibly have ANY effect on you?
After all....according to them and Radwaste and Unix-Jedi, it's just 'water' or 'sugar'. Are you afraid of 'water'? 'Sugar'?
Or is there something else. Something that will possibly shatter your 'world-view' about medicine?
Chuck Petlo at June 4, 2011 3:44 PM
TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: About Those 'Debilitating' Harms....
....you were claiming someone could experience from taking homeopathic meeds.
Out of curiosity.....
.....show me the cases where such has occurred.
Vitamin Cottage and Whole Foods sell such materials every day. And YET, I have not heard of ANY medical crisis on an individual or group basis from the sale/use of such.
Please bring forth your evidence that homeopathic materia medic a is documented as being harmful.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....despite the blatant ignorance expressed by stupid people.....]
Chuck Pelto at June 4, 2011 3:49 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2216884">comment from Chuck PeltoSo..... ....is the Royal Family of the United Kingdom a bunch of 'gullible' boobs?
Yep.
And in terms of common forms of irrationality, this is an "appeal to authority." Instead of showing evidence, you say, "Well, famous people use it!"
Princess Diana also believed in the idiocy known as astrology.
I wrote today about how my AMA-member doctor gives advice about diet that is not evidence based. I'm not impressed by anybody's title, degree or license, and certainly not by the fact that they were born into a "royal" family. If anything, people of privilege are prone to wastrelhood, although the older kid of Diana and Charles seems to be a pretty good guy if press accounts are correct.
Amy Alkon at June 4, 2011 4:17 PM
"TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: About Those 'Debilitating' Harms....
....you were claiming someone could experience from taking homeopathic meeds."
Care to quote me for what I said? I remember what I said. It'll be illustrating if you can find it, cut, paste it, and actually construct an argument.
You keep making cases dodging the actual facts of the argument of the case, resorting to logical fallacies, and ignoring what people are saying in favor of what you wanted them to say.
Almost like you're incapable of actually responding in a intelligent manner.
And yes, what the Royal Family does means close to nothing to me, as well.
"What are you afraid of"
"What are you afraid of"
"What are you afraid of"
"What are you afraid of"
...
That's the best argument you've got so far. It's not very good. What are you afraid of to deal with it factually, scientifically, and evidence-based?
Unix-Jedi at June 4, 2011 7:04 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Okay....
....the Royal Family of the United Kingdom is a bunch of 'gullible boobs'.
Thanks for that.
Amazing. Isn't it that this lot has ruled over a nation of millions and millions for so long.
Then, by inference, every one of those millions and millions of 'subjects', except for the PIRA, are 'gullible boobs' as well.
Let alone all the people in France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Italy, Spain, etc., etc., etc....
....who use homeopathy themselves, are 'gullible boobs' too.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Question: Why are so many Americans convinced THEY know the truth? Better than anyone else?
Answer: Arrogance....e.g., ignorant and proud of it.....
P.S. Oh well...it's their 'pain' and 'suffering'.....
Chuck Pelto at June 5, 2011 9:26 AM
TO: Unix-Jedi
RE: No....
The best argument I've got is your comportment, i.e., your abject fear of something you think is only 'water' and/or 'sugar'.
Jedi....my fourth-point-of-contact.....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education. -- George Bernard Shaw]
Chuck Pelto at June 5, 2011 9:29 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2220141">comment from Chuck PeltoChuck, we judge people's thinking by judging their thinking, not their lineage. Anyone who uses homeopathy is a gullible boob, because there is no evidence that it works. Royal relatedness does not have anything to do with human rationality.
Amy Alkon at June 5, 2011 9:34 AM
....the Royal Family of the United Kingdom is a bunch of 'gullible boobs'.
...
Amazing. Isn't it that this lot has ruled over a nation of millions and millions for so long.
Apparently chemistry isn't the only subject you (no longer) know, your history is abysmal.
The English royalty hasn't "ruled"...
You know, it's not even worth arguing when you're this blatantly ignorant and logically fallacious. What does their "reign" have to do with anything?
What does the number of other deluded people matter? As I recall, you're christian. You're outnumbered by Islamic believers. Does that mean you're wrong?
Right and wrong aren't voted on, and I think you realize how ridiculous you are - getting more shrill and ridiculous isn't helping your cause.
Unix-Jedi at June 5, 2011 7:11 PM
TO: Unix-'Jedi'(?)
RE: History Lessons
Apparently chemistry isn't the only subject you (no longer) know, your history is abysmal. -- Unix-'Jedi'(?)
Yeah....
....that's why the Brits and Irish and Welsh and Scots haven't beheaded ALL OF THEM by now.
As US did in 1776.....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
Chuck Pelto at June 6, 2011 2:37 PM
P.S. Give me a mailing address....otherwise you're a coward....
Chuck Pelto at June 6, 2011 2:38 PM
Apparently chemistry isn't the only subject you (no longer) know, your history is abysmal.
Yeah....
Yes.
....that's why the Brits and Irish and Welsh and Scots haven't beheaded ALL OF THEM by now.
As US did in 1776.....
I think I begin to see the problem with your dogmatic acceptance of homeopathy.
You really don't know how to critically think, do you Chuck?
What you said makes absolutely no sense, in a literal, figurative, or even rhetorical sense.
The US didn't behead anybody in 1776 in the Royal Family. The guillotine was the French Revolution, Chuck. Not the US. We didn't behead as a matter of course.
The decline of the King's power over England was well-in-hand even by then, and by the end of WWI, the Royals were almost entirely powerless, mere figureheads. Certainly not _rulers_, as you claimed.
And even if they were, it wouldn't make their beliefs any more right, or any more wrong.
Technically, the Queen can dismiss Parliament today. I wish she would, for the lulz factor - but somehow, I don't think it would actually work.
Nothing in what you said actually responded to me, it was just sneeringly dismissive and rudely insulting, but the real insult was to yourself, and your reputation, not mine.
You didn't quote me, either.
you: About Those 'Debilitating' Harms you were claiming someone could experience from taking homeopathic meeds."
Me: Care to quote me for what I said? I remember what I said. It'll be illustrating if you can find it, cut, paste it, and actually construct an argument.
Is that because you found that I didn't say that?
The only person here offering harm is you, Chuck. I've pointed out that your "proof" is dangerous, potentially mutilating, and that I've seen people by accident do something very similar, and been severely handicapped for life as a result.
Call me a coward. Fine. It's hardly hurting my feelings to be called a coward by someone like you.
I'll keep calling you an idiot. My cowardice is hardly proven by refusing the test of fire - or if that's what it takes to get your respect, I don't care to gain it.
Your idiocy stands on display. Radwaste, Amy, myself have asked you questions you've evaded, and you're right back, a few hundred comments later, saying exactly what you said before. Ignoring all the actual arguments in favor of what's going on in your fevered head. Attacking people for beliefs they never espoused, and demanding that either they believe in your sugar magic and reject all modern evidence-based medicine, or are corrupted and ignorant.
Why don't you tell me what your matica says you should take for hallucinations and psychosis? Wait, don't tell me. Just go take some. Heck, double the dose, if that much sugar or water won't hurt your kidneys.
Your attempts to badger my address are meaningless to me, and you're not anywhere near my peer to pressure me. You want me to try something?
Figure out how to explain how it works, and crushing up bugs whose secretion causes chemical burns to "cure" heat burns is going to take a lot of explanation.
I shan't be trying it. But feel free to upload a video of you demonstrating it to youtube if you wish.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some hydrocortizone cream I was defrauded out of to put on a heat rash I got this weekend working outside. Good luck, Chuck.
Unix-Jedi at June 6, 2011 3:01 PM
TO: Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
RE: Speaking of Creme Jobs....
....last night the distaff couldn't get to sleep for an arthritic pain in a knee.
I got out a homeopathic suave. She applied it. And went back to sleep in comfort.
You can call it a 'placebo' effect. But she and I call it 'effective'.
You can live with all the pain you want. Maybe it will make a 'man' of you. However, after going through 27 years in the infantry, I've had enough 'misery' to spare in that arena. So I take succor wherever I find it effective. [NOTE: Any the Big-Pharms have failed in that, miserably.]
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I see that Obamacare is now impacting cancer treatments—as Amy reports a scarcity of Ritalin—by making Big-Pharm medications for it 'scarce'.
What ya gonna do when the Big-C come for you?
I'll be using pawpaw.....I've seen it kill an aggressive squamous carcinoma within ONE MONTH.
P.S. I HOPE you're enjoying the CHANGE....
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 8:48 AM
TO: All
RE: Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
He STILL hasn't the courage to take something that he claims is merely 'water' or 'sugar'.
So much for his self-applied appellation for 'courage'.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 8:50 AM
P.S. The only one getting more 'shrill' around here is you....
I'm confident in the benefits I and this household realize from the application of things God has given us to use....for our benefit.
YOU, on the other hand, demonstrate a lack of courage necessary to step out of the box and explore this wonderful world for yourself. Instead, you act as if you actually hate the gifts given to you.
Why is that? Are you an 'atheist'?
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 8:54 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233124">comment from Chuck PeltoInstead, you act as if you actually hate the gifts given to you. Why is that? Are you an 'atheist'?
How stupid, nasty, and hateful. Atheists don't "hate" life. I'm an atheist and I have great gratitude for being alive, for the planet, for nature, for my friends, the fact that I'm American and have food in my refrigerator and a car to drive and a roof over my head. What I don't have is the childish and gullible belief, sans proof, that there's a big man in the sky.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 9:11 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233126">comment from Chuck PeltoI got out a homeopathic suave. She applied it. And went back to sleep in comfort.
The plural of anecdote is not data. Look up "randomized, double blind controlled study."
Chuck, you're a human waste of time.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 9:12 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: How Many....
...anecdotal evidences...
....make a data point?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. 'human waste of time'
The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. -- Simon Wiesenthal
So....
....you actually 'hate' people, eh?
How....er....'progressive' of you.....
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 10:03 AM
P.P.S. How is that search for affordable ADHD med coming?
You were complaining about $1 a pill.
What if you had something that worked just as well....without side affects....for just $.05 a dose?
Would THAT make any 'difference'?
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 10:05 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: 'Stupid'?!?!?!?
How stupid, nasty, and hateful. Atheists don't "hate" life. -- Amy Alkon
No. Atheists hate God. And, based on past experience HERE and elsewhere, they hate those who appreciate Him.
Why else would you have 'killed' me some time back? For doing nothing more, nor anything less, than what I did when I asked if Unix-Jedi was an atheist?
And you treat a simple question about someone's beliefs as a 'hate crime'? How very telling.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.]
P.S. This mornings scriptural missive—from a former comrade-in-arms—was EXACTLY ABOUT THIS sort of comportment by certain people....
....how 'apropos'.....
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 10:15 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233254">comment from Chuck PeltoAtheists hate God.
I'm an atheist and I find the idea that I would hate an imaginary figure to be hilarious.
Furthermore, I don't "hate" anyone or anything. Hate is an immature and silly emotion.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 10:41 AM
TO: Amy Alkon, et al.
RE: As If....
I'm an atheist.... -- Amy Alkon
....I couldn't 'guess', vis-a-vis your polemic response to a simple question put to someone else.
RE: Yeah....Right....
....and I find the idea that I would hate an imaginary figure to be hilarious. -- Amy Alkon
And that's why you treated that simple question as if it were a 'hate crime', e.g., "nasty", "stupid" and "hateful".
What's that matter, Amy? Can't allow a Christian to speak his/her mind on your venue? Or do you doubt that Unix-Jedi has what-it-takes to speak for him/herself?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. When you start calling for the murder of Christians, you'll know the 'truth'.....
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 10:47 AM
P.P.S. Upon further reflection....
....is THIS—your hatred of the idea that a simple plant or animal by-product created by God could be more effective than whatever the Big-Pharms—can come up with?
Now THERE is an interesting hypthesis. Especially in light of the juxtaposition of atheist vs. christian beliefs.
That would go far in explaining your very obvious 'reluctance' to even apply a simple TEST to the idea.
Chuck Petlo at June 8, 2011 11:01 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233317">comment from Chuck PetloChuck, there's no "hatred." It's silly to believe in things without evidence that they work, and your personal belief they work doesn't count as evidence. It's clear that you have some sort of personality disorder, and I'm sorry about that, and also for the fact that whatever is wrong with you seems to involve an inability to perceive that and an inability to think rationally. Responding to you is a waste of time. If you persist with these time-sucking stupid comments, I will ban you.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 11:03 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233321">comment from Amy AlkonOh, and since an inability to exercise impulse control seems to be a characteristic of whatever personality disorder you have, I'm sure you will simply continue as you were, and I will have to ban you.
Intelligent dissent here is always welcomed. Your comments just suck the time of the intelligent in a discussion that is meaningless since you are clearly unable to think rationally to a great extent.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 11:05 AM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Oh....PUHLEASE!!!!
Chuck, there's no "hatred." -- Amy Alkon
You, YOURSELF, accused my question to Unix-Jedi of being, "How stupid, nasty, and hateful."
That's all 'hate speech', in and of itself.
"Intelligent dissent" doesn't use that form of speech.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....despite the twists and turns of conventional 'wisdom'.....]
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 11:16 AM
TO: Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
RE: Talk about 'Shrill'
Oh, and since an inability to exercise impulse control seems to be a characteristic of whatever personality disorder you have, I'm sure you will simply continue as you were, and I will have to ban you. -- Amy Alkon
It's called 'murder' in certain areas.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]
P.S. But if you DO wish to engage in discussions where you won't be 'murdered' for cogent disagreement, do visit me at....
....http://www.comensarations.info/
CHUCK PELTO at June 8, 2011 11:29 AM
YOU, on the other hand, demonstrate a lack of courage necessary to step out of the box and explore this wonderful world for yourself. Instead, you act as if you actually hate the gifts given to you.
Why is that? Are you an 'atheist'?
The latter doesn't presuppose the former. You presume that, because you don't know how to follow a train of logic. Why put it in quotes? No Chuck, I'm not a believer. I call it agnostic, myself, I don't feel the need to reject or deny the possibility that this is all One Big Practical Joke.
For all your "courage" insults, I always thought that was the Marines that was into proving manhood and suffering and doing any dare.
I don't know what's cowardly about doing something really, really really dumb, and then trying an unscientific test. I've asked you to explain that, but you're non-Turing complete.
I've answered your question - which as Amy noted, was delivering insultingly and rather nastily - which is more than I can say for the many questions I and others posed for you in this thread.
What's that matter, Amy? Can't allow a Christian to speak his/her mind on your venue?
This discussion is in the vicinity of 300 comments, about 1/2 of them yours. As usual, the very evidence you need to answer your own question is already at your hand, and you're ignoring it.
What if you had something that worked just as well....without side affects....for just $.05 a dose?
Then it would be psychosomatic. And you could just drink the water instead.
Unix-Jedi at June 8, 2011 12:27 PM
wish ... engage ... discussions ... 'murdered' ... cogent disagreement
None of those words mean what you think they mean.
Unix-Jedi at June 8, 2011 12:30 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/05/09/protecting_us_o.html#comment-2233459">comment from Unix-JediThanks, Unix-Jedi. Well-said.
The interesting part of this discussion is the rational rebuttals. The need for them, over and over and over, is wearisome.
Can't allow a Christian to speak his/her mind on your venue?
Missed this. Just silly. Probably at least half or more people who post here are Christian.
Amy Alkon at June 8, 2011 12:43 PM
Earth to Chuckie:
Get a fuckin' life, and quit badgering folks who have nothing but well considered contempt for your antics. (acres of bandwidth wasted on your bullshit, oh, the humanity!)
And get a fuckin' dictionary, Senor Suave...
jollyroger at June 8, 2011 4:18 PM
TO: jollyroger
RE: [OT] Look Who's Talk'n
Get a fuckin' life.... -- jollyroger
Heh. Twenty-seven years in the infantry. Enlisted in 1970. Retired an Airborne-Ranger LTC in 1997.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If you had a life in the first place, you won't have a mid-life crisis.]
Chuck Pelto at June 8, 2011 4:25 PM
Retired... 1997.
The tell...You have too much time on your hands.
jollyroger at June 8, 2011 4:47 PM
TO: jollyroger
RE: [OT] Yeah....
The tell...You have too much time on your hands. -- jollyroger
....and I spend a LOT of it as:
[1] a recording secretary for a state-level organization
[2] president of a local club in said organization
[3] planning the annual convention for said organization
[4] a commissioner on the city Planning & Zoning Commission
[5] a commissioner on two city-county commissions: Transportation and Environmental
[6] an activist for neighborhood improvement on a citizens oversight commission for city and county government
And you were telling me to 'get a Life'?
Such a child, you are....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I suggest that YOU were 'projecting' earlier. And that YOU are the one who needs to 'get a life'.
I recommend you visit your local Army recruiter and volunteer—as I did in 1970—to go AIRBORNE!
[You haven't lived, until you've almost died.]
Chuck Pelto at June 9, 2011 12:25 PM
P.P.S. Based on personal experience....twenty-seven years of being officially—under the proscriptions of the UCMJ—apolitical....getting out of the green suit allowed me to start expressing myself in the political venue.
I forgot to mention that the distaff ran for state assembly in 2006—and she keeps the idea open, event today—and that we are co-chairs of our political party in our precinct.
So tell US, youngster....
....what are your 'creds' for having a 'Life'?
I'll bet I was jumping C130s before YOU figured out how to jump a prom date.
Chuck Pelto at June 9, 2011 12:29 PM
TO: Amy Alkon
RE: Silly, Indeed
Missed this. Just silly. Probably at least half or more people who post here are Christian. -- Amy Alkon
It's probably a LOT 'less' than you would like to think.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A tree is known by its fruit. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago]
P.S. I used to consider myself a 'Christian', until I learned that there was more to it than just calling myself such.....a LOT MORE. And that includes telling people about what God has done for us, vis-a-vis homeopathy. But atheists....based on what I've observed here....don't care to hear about such evidence of God's existence coming out in the open....
....I mean....look at YOUR comportment after I asked Unix-Jedi that simple question.....
Chuck Pelto at June 9, 2011 12:39 PM
Chuck, you embody the concept of "beating a dead horse".
The image is meant to be conveyed of beating a horse that cannot exert itself anymore, for failing to do so, and to try and exert itself yet more.
That's trying to have a "discussion" with you. You have your mind made up, and any failure for anyone to disagree with you is license for you to try and denigrate them, make ludicrous and libelous claims about their beliefs and actions, and try and shame them into following behind you.
I'm not a Christian. But I've been around many people, some I consider to be very good people, who were. And they'd distance themselves from you with that label as far as they could.
What you do isn't "Christian" as Jesus taught (Just because I don't believe he was the son of god doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the various churches teachings).
It is, however, exactly how Mohammed instructed his followers to behave.
But that's a side issue.
Chuck: ....I mean....look at YOUR comportment after I asked Unix-Jedi that simple question.....
Ok, let's.
Amy: How stupid, nasty, and hateful. Atheists don't "hate" life. I'm an atheist and I have great gratitude for being alive, for the planet, for nature, for my friends, the fact that I'm American and have food in my refrigerator and a car to drive and a roof over my head. What I don't have is the childish and gullible belief, sans proof, that there's a big man in the sky.
What, exactly, is wrong with that "comportment"? Other than it's giving you more respect than you've proven in this thread you deserve, more than you've given to anyone else, and is actually still treating you like a rational human capable of critical thought?
That's wrong, not evil.
Let me expand that statement, since you don't read so well.
Amy, in her comportment, that you insinuate was somehow evidentiary of something, at best is incorrect in her attempt to address you (in my opinion.)
But you are making it out as if she's somehow evil, if she's not just wrong, but intentionally wrong, and trying to lead people to her evil, and that's proof.
As with the rest of what you think is proof, you don't know what you're talking about.
But atheists....based on what I've observed here....don't care to hear about such evidence of God's existence coming out in the open....
I told you many many many comments ago that homeopathy was religion.
I don't care to care about it. If you want to go waste your time eating sugar pills and drinking water, that bothers me exactly as much as the Brethren handling rattlesnakes, speaking in tongues, rebaptizing, monks flogging themselves, people wearing hairshirts...
But it bothers you a great deal that I not only don't believe, but insist on proof in a form you can't deliver, because it's your religious faith alone and you can't admit that. And that shakes your faith.
That's your problem, Chuck. Not mine. Not Radwaste's. Not Amy's. Not anybody but yours.
That's because of your self-doubt, and doubt in your religion, Chuck, not me. It's not due to me, or other non-believers in the thread's rudeness or anything other than our failure to do as you command.
Heal thyself, and thy soul, preacher, before you attempt to preach to your flock.
Unix-Jedi at June 10, 2011 9:40 AM
TO: Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
RE: Persistence
Chuck, you embody the concept of "beating a dead horse". -- Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
Something inculcated into combat-arms officers. I'm just carrying it to its logical conclusion vis-a-vis trying to tell people there is a 'way out of Hell' [NOTE: Just finished re-reading Niven and Pournelle's Inferno. Wherein people refuse to accept the idea that there IS 'hope'. People a lot like you and Amy.]
It's your loss to refuse to even consider the possibility. Not mine.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. ARE YOU AN 'atheist'? You say you're not a 'christian'. That was understood from the get-go. But are you an 'atheist'? I ask because I'm noticing a pattern of behavior.
P.P.S.
What you do isn't "Christian" as Jesus taught.... -- Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
How so?
Christ commanded that we spread the Word. The Army taught me to "Know your enemy and know yourself. -- Sun Tzu, the Art of War, mandatory reading for officers at Benning School for Boys.
How is my asking you a simple question 'not Christian'?
I'll wager dollars-to-donuts that you wouldn't know a REAL christian if he kissed you on the cheek.....upper....not lower. The lower is something I believe God considers very poor 'form'....
Chuck Pelto at June 10, 2011 12:21 PM
P.P.P.S. Thanks....
I told you many many many comments ago that homeopathy was religion. -- Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
....for that. It correlates well with my developing arg about a 'pattern of behavior'. The point being that atheists would see a simple solution for 'pain' and 'suffering' from the flora and fauna around us as evidence that God exists. Therefore, they must object—in the most obstreperous manner—to ANY such possible usage.
Now the manner of Amy's and your 'behavior' begins to make a certain amount of 'sense'....in a rather perverse way.....
Chuck Pelto at June 10, 2011 1:05 PM
P.P.P.P.S. Especially when you consider the way:
[1] Amy reacted when I asked if you were an 'atheist'.
[2] Your refusal to answer the question.
You see....
....IPB, as taught by the Command and General Staff College IS 'useful'....in decerning what's going on when people don't want you to know.
Chuck Pelto at June 10, 2011 1:08 PM
P.P.P.P.P.S.....
...You keep asking for 'proof'.
I offer you such 'proof', but you don't have the gonads to test it for yourself.
Jedi? I think not.....
Chuck Pelto at June 10, 2011 1:14 PM
Chuck, I suggest you never go to France. Odds are good you'll end up in a McDonalds. On the menu.
I offer you such 'proof'
No, you haven't. And I've (and others) have detailed why. You can't stop beating that horse, that you've met requirements that you haven't.
but you don't have the gonads to test it for yourself.
I keep telling you that trying to insult me into believing in your hokey religion won't work.
And so you keep insulting me. Dead horse.
Challenging me on my "gonads" will likewise, always fail. I made my decisions with my brain, not my nuts. I suspect this projection again speaks more about you than I.
Yet you keep challenging me more than I ever got on the playground in school. Dead horse.
Especially when you consider the way:
[1] Amy reacted when I asked if you were an 'atheist'.
I pointed out that her reaction was nicer than yours. Quoted it to you. You ignored that to go back to your dead horse beating.
[2] Your refusal to answer the question.
You mean, when I said: "Why put it in quotes? No Chuck, I'm not a believer. I call it agnostic, myself, I don't feel the need to reject or deny the possibility that this is all One Big Practical Joke."
That "refusal"?
Chuck, that there demonstrates one of two things.
Either you're just flat out lying now, shamelessly, or you're so clueless that you can't participate in adult conversation.
I'll leave it to you to figure out which one applies to you - because either one means that it's not worth anybody else's time to deal with you.
Unix-Jedi at June 10, 2011 11:19 PM
Why are you wasting time with this lout?
"I have serious doubts as to your ability to even BE in such a unit as the 1st Battalion (Airborne) 508th Infantry."
Ditto, Chuck. If you did any of that stuff, you could click your mouse without help, and you would know you can't set aside the law of cause and effect.
Guys, Chuck was never an Army officer - unless he got drummed out for mental illness. Officers do not properly act this way.
Retirement has its stresses. For someone who was actually IN the service, the glory of youth passed away has its ghosts - of things never to be done again, as an officer and hopefully a gentleman retires to his trailer and his cats, in a neighborhood where no one at all believes he was once Superman.
Radwaste at June 12, 2011 2:56 PM
BTW - Chuck, the word is spelled, "discerning".
Radwaste at June 12, 2011 2:58 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: 1-508th
I did two tours with that batt: one enlisted one commissioned.
Your jealousy is blatantly obvious.
Want to put your money where your mouth is regarding my veracity about my service in the US Army between 1970 and 1997?
Say $10K? The house could use some paint work.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks for correcting my spelling.....
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 12:07 PM
TO: All
RE: Wishful Thinking....
Chuck, I suggest you never go to France. Odds are good you'll end up in a McDonalds. On the menu. -- Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
THIS looks a LOT like a 'death wish' to me. Something beyond the mere ad hom that we get form the likes of Radwaste. And I have to wonder just WHERE Amy Alkon draws the proverbial 'line' with posting on her web-site.
I recall being 'killed' on this site, sometime back, for my blatant expression of Christianity.
So, if THIS attitude by Unix-Jedi is allowed, but Christian expression is NOT, what can we surmize about Amy Alkon?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 1:16 PM
P.S. What to 'surmise'?
[1] She's not a Vegan
[2] She wouldn't mind Christians being 'fed' to whatever 'lions' are available.
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 1:18 PM
P.P.S. As for Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
It's pretty obvious that this 'jedi' is one of the 'sith', as his only 'solution' to dealing with the truth is to 'kill' those who express it. He's 'cornered' and there's no way out EXCEPT to 'kill' those and 'destroy' the 'evidence' by a short trip through some cannibalistic gastro-intestinal tract.
[Whereas 'Good' can tolerate the existence of 'Evil', 'Evil' cannot abide the existence of 'Good'. Because 'Good' will always be pointing out the faults of 'Evil'. Therefore, 'Evil' must try to destroy 'Good'.]
P.S. Something to do with avoidance of 'embarrassment'.
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 1:24 PM
TO: Unix-Jedi[NOT!]
RE: Simple Questions
[1] Are you an 'atheist'?
[2] What is your mailing address?
It can't get much 'simpler' than THAT. Are you a 'gutless' Jedi? Or what?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. You can give me a 'general delivery' address for all I care about sending you the 'proof' you demand.
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 2:18 PM
TO: Radwaste
RE: [OT] Retirement
Retirement has its stresses. -- Radwaste
Not if you had a 'Life' in the first place.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You haven't lived, until you've almost died.]
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 3:06 PM
P.S. Been there....
...done that....
....on several occasions: military and civilian.
Howz by you?
Care to swap stories over fine scotch and good tobacco?
Chuck Pelto at June 13, 2011 3:08 PM
TO: All
RE: Heh
Awfully 'quiet' here of late.
Anything to do with the 'Truth' of the antagonists coming out?
Having failed in addressing the topical thread and resorting to the most outrageous ad homs, and being held to account for their comments....they are 'reluctant' to hold to their opinions.
Not too surprising when one is liable for $10K....let alone legal fees.
Nor the other for making a blatant 'death wish' upon his adversary.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Chuck Pelto at June 15, 2011 6:27 PM
I am a patient on Adderall, now taking ritalin because Adderall is out at like every pharmacy. I went to the pharmacy today to get my prescrition
of Ritalin it was the last of what they had!! This is RIDICULOUS! What happens when everyone runs out of both what are we supposed to do be sick. WHAT THE HELL THE DEA NEEDS TO GIVE DRUG COMPANIES THE INGREDIENTS TO MAKE THESE MEDICINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANK YOU
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