Leaving In Di$grace
Weiner's outta there, but his pension lives on (along with other perks mentioned at the link, like access, for a small fee, to the congressional gym where he he took some of those dick pix of himself). Daniel Stone writes for The Daily Beast:
Rep. Anthony Weiner may be resigning in shame, but he'll leave Capitol Hill with the same golden parachute afforded to all members of Congress who leave public service.Having been in Congress since 1999 and a staffer in the '80s, Weiner will be eligible for a congressional pension of up to $46,224 each year, according to the National Taxpayers Union, which calculates all congressional pensions. He'll eventually be eligible to collect the balance of his Congressional Thrift Savings Plan, which is currently $216,011. And he'll be able to keep his high-quality health-care package, at his own expense, until November 2012.
These pensions are not sustainable. For members of Congress or for lifeguards on the beach in California:
One Newport Beach lifeguard recently retired at 51 with an annual pension of $108,000, plus medical benefits, report the Times' Catherine Saillant and Mike Reicher.
How will the rest of us manage to pay these pensions? Will there have to be a total collapse of this country for them to be rolled back?
$108k isn't that bad. There's a school administrator in New York state who gets a pension of $316k.
My employer has been collating public data about salaries and pensions and republishing it in a searchable form. We've got NY state up so far, more to come.
NY pension data
Pax dickinson at June 18, 2011 7:27 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/18/leaving_in_digr.html#comment-2280693">comment from Pax dickinson$316K...a year? This is vile. And thanks, Pax, for the link.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2011 7:36 AM
If I might be so bold as to ask this of the audience: please note that taxing Federal workers is a shell game. It means that Federal agencies actually pay less than the face value to employ people, but the game is exposed with a simple question:
How much Federal tax money can you collect from one Federal employee to pay another one?
Again, the observation arises: eventually, you run out of other people's money.
Payment for public service is very different from what is commonly thought, in multiple ways, and people are easily confused, as has been noted in argument about Wisconsin public-sector unions.
Radwaste at June 18, 2011 7:51 AM
It's not just American lifeguards & politicians you'll be paying for, but Greek ones too. Obama has given his blessing to a $ 145 billion IMF bailout of Greece:
http://action.freedomworks.org/4596/stop-obamas-greek-bailout/
Yup, you'll be working till you're 95 so that some fat Greek bureaucrat can retire at 55. Ha-ha!
Martin at June 18, 2011 9:37 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/18/leaving_in_digr.html#comment-2281681">comment from MartinA friend's close friend has property in Greece and doesn't pay property taxes on it. Apparently, nobody really bothers to collect them.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2011 9:42 AM
I don't even understand why we have pensions, in addition to social security. People paid a good salary should be expected to save for their own retirement while they are still working. If they screw that up, there's the safety net of social security.
I have neither of these options. Having almost always been self-employed, I'm barely eliigible for social security, and nobody is offering me a pension, so I save for my own retirement, which forces me to make more prudent financial decisions. Why can't someone with a salary in the hundreds of thousands do that too?
lovelysoul at June 18, 2011 9:48 AM
I propose delaying a federal or state pension until the retiree turns 65 years old.
Military retirees, for example, are eligible to retire with a pension after 20 years of service. That means some retire with pension at age 38.
I don't know about state employees.
But delaying pensions for everyone, congress included, until age 65 would save a lot of money.
Nick at June 18, 2011 9:50 AM
Btw, there's a joke circulating the internet that Weiner is going to run for President. His Vice President will be Eric Holder, so the ticket will be "Weiner Holder." hehe.
lovelysoul at June 18, 2011 10:03 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/18/leaving_in_digr.html#comment-2281890">comment from lovelysoulI don't even understand why we have pensions, in addition to social security. People paid a good salary should be expected to save for their own retirement while they are still working.
I agree with you. And aren't these pensions allotted tax savings while those of us who just save cannot take advantage of this level of savings? I'm not an accountant or an economist, so that's speculation on my part (I'm working on my column so I can't look this up now, but feel free to weigh in if you have knowledge on this).
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2011 10:50 AM
Elected officials getting pensions is beyond absurd. Given them 401k matching.
Joe at June 18, 2011 10:58 AM
Uniformed employees of the US military get full pension after 20 years of service, and full medical benefits--for life. Even if they retire at age 38.
We incur decades and decades of huge financial obligations for every soldier we hire, as taxpayers. If a guy joins the military at age 18, we face another 50-70 years of outlays--most of the time, while he is retired and does nothing for national security.
The VA outlays are exploding.
It is not sustainable.
BOTU at June 18, 2011 11:08 AM
The military retirement system is like it is because of WWII. Before WWII, military personnel had to stay in much longer before being able to retire. I don’t remember how long. However, this resulted in many older, entrenched, officers and NCOs with outdated ideas and attitudes blocking the way for more competent personnel to be promoted. IIRC, Eisenhower was a captain at the beginning of the war. As a result, after the war, the military adopted the ‘up or out’ system, which requires one to be promoted or get out. If they did not allow people to retire early, it would be full of old fogies. Military life is for young people. Twenty or so years just about wears you out. It becomes harder and harder to meet the physical fitness standards. BTW, because of lack of structure and discipline, many military retirees are dead within a few years of getting out.
ken in sc at June 18, 2011 12:41 PM
If a guy joins the military at age 18, we face another 50-70 years of outlays--most of the time, while he is retired and does nothing for national security.
I'm going to parse this a little and add to Ken's comments:
You only get a percent of your base pay. I want to say that is about 38% at 20 years. Depending on where you are stationed that can be a lot less than your active duty pay.
And if you are reservist/guard the majority of your career -- and retire, your pension doesn't kick in until you are in your 60's.
The number of vets that get to 20 years is not high.
The VA health care is a lifetime commitment. But the "waiting" line for service is so long -- most vets don't use it. You get better faster treatment
on the civilian side. And they have to pay in to CHAMPUS/Tri-care to cover spouses.
The G.I. Education bill -- you have to put money in while you're active duty. And you have a 10 year limit to use it after you get out.
The VA loan program -- most of the time the extra cost of the paperwork doesn't cover the discount on the interest rates. And many banks won't even process them.
As for BX and Commissary privileges -- you only get those if you do 20 or are disabled. The BX prices are commonly beat by any civilian store, even with sales tax. The Commissary is great for bulk -- but you are again in competition with civilian stores.
Jim P. at June 18, 2011 1:14 PM
"And aren't these pensions allotted tax savings while those of us who just save cannot take advantage of this level of savings?"
Time to listen to Dave Ramsey, Clark Howard or step on down to your credit union or investment firm.
Yes, you can establish a Roth IRA with your own money.
-----
BOTU, just because they asked or you told, and you made it your business to demand the service cater to you -- doesn't excuse your hard-on for the services. You've already misrepresented the budgetary burden of defense for your own ends. I suggest it's time for you to pick another subject.
Radwaste at June 18, 2011 4:14 PM
The VA budget for 2012 is $132 billion, up from $52 billion 10 years ago. It is growing rapidly. Of this, there is no dispute.
There is no dispute we run huge budget deficits, and there is no dispute we must curtail debt.
Sure, I wish Congresspeople received no pensions. But what they get is small potatoes.
Arthur Andersen called the soldier's pension and retirement package a $1 million bonus, and that was a few year's back, and excluded the medical benefits.
Better, we pay soldiers for a 10-yeat stint, no VA and pension benefits on the way. Same for civilian government workers--we have to wipe out the pensions--they are time bombs. A American Foreign Legion might be a good idea too--10 years in, then out, no lifetime commitments. Maybe even a draft is a good idea---I am convinced we would not get into as many wars if the elite had to send their kids to the front lines.
Our Department of Defense, VA and Homeland Security complex now drains $1 trillion a year out of the private sector, where that money would create jobs and wealth.
It is not patriotic to spend yourself into the poorhouse.
Mots of the money is wasted, in any federal department.
BOTU at June 18, 2011 4:56 PM
"Our Department of Defense, VA and Homeland Security complex now drains $1 trillion a year out of the private sector, where that money would create jobs and wealth."
Well. After asking the killer question, "What do you think that money does, evaporate?" as the follow-on to the obvious - that defense spending goes to contractors, who employ individuals, I'll do two things:
Observe that you simply have it in for anything military, and provide a reference for the audience - something you are strangely reluctant to do: Here.
Obviously, a BOTU cannot read.
Radwaste at June 18, 2011 5:54 PM
I think this recent focus on military retirements as some sort of fat that should be cut out of the budget is nonsense.
When you say, "That means some retire with pension at age 38", it sounds like a pretty good deal -- and it is. But, those pensions are pretty damn meager. It's not as though that 38 year old is going fishing without a care for the rest of his life. The pension might just cover a modest house payment.
Ken is right that the military is a young man's game. I wholly endorse his comment above with the exception of the whole dead within a few years idea (I'm trying to be optimistic:)
I'll be retiring from the military next year at age 42 and will begin to collect this pension. As I look back, I'm astounded that anyone would think it was anything like any other job. I've been directly or indirectly involved in every single U.S. conflict since the first gulf war and have been very nearly killed several times. I hardly hear at all out of one ear and I have memories that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. War is something that you taxpayers decide to do without having any idea what it actually involves.
And I'm in the Air Force! Can you imagine what a Marine goes through?
BOTU complains that the VA budget has exploded. Yeah? Ya think? Could that have something to do with a couple of wars? I usually enjoy BOTU's comments and he's one of my favorite commenters on here, but damn, really?
whistleDick at June 18, 2011 8:21 PM
I don't think anything should be off the table here. While I agree with you, whistledick, that military service is like no other job when a person sees combat, there's still a lot of waste.
Going to war is big business. We taxpayers don't really "decide" to go to war as much as we're told by our representatives that war is necessary, and a lot of that "necessity" arises from pork barrel military complexes and interests in each state.
My biological mother stayed married to a man who lived in another state, hundreds of miles away from her, for 30 yrs just so she could keep his military benefits. She died of emphyzema, after years of being treated by the VA medical system. She never saw combat. As much as I was relieved that she had basically free medical care, it didn't seem fair to the taxpayers.
lovelysoul at June 18, 2011 10:33 PM
Military Retirement Pay kicks in at 20 years of service at 50% base pay. Something like 15% of Basic Training graduates will stick around long enough to receive a pension. The problem with cutting that is the "shell game"...change the retirement system for the military and I can garauntee a huge spike in "100%" disabled veteran listings.
Another idea, cut the number of General Officer slots. We have more Generals now (ratio) pegged at something like One in 1000 is a General than at any other time in history. As a rule of thumb in history the Army with the most Generals tends to lose...and they typically stay in for 40 years and draw their FULL base pay at retirement...and then go on to a high level government job...not to mention that each one of them that wears stars has a staff to feed their ego (40 people easy and that's just a one-star).
Red at June 19, 2011 12:49 AM
LovelySoul, you said:
"My biological mother stayed married to a man who lived in another state, hundreds of miles away from her, for 30 yrs just so she could keep his military benefits. She died of emphyzema, after years of being treated by the VA medical system. She never saw combat. As much as I was relieved that she had basically free medical care, it didn't seem fair to the taxpayers."
Good for her. She wasn't bilking the system. That was what her husband earned. If my ex-wife ever found a lump or something horrible like that, guess what? I'll remarry her. My sacrifices should extend to the people that I love and who have also made great sacrifices in the service of our country. Being a military wife is not easy.
If that attitude doesn't seem fair to the taxpayers, then screw them. They don't know shit.
whistleDick at June 19, 2011 4:23 AM
By the way, LovelySoul, I'm sorry to hear of your mother's passing and hope that the VA system was able to make her comfortable as she left.
whistleDick at June 19, 2011 4:29 AM
"Being a military wife is not easy"
She wasn't a military wife either. They were married briefly long after he served. He was her 4th or 5th husband (ironically, the only one she could ever stay marred to).
I guess the arrangment worked somehow for him. I think he never wanted to marry again, so it didn't matter. But theirs wasn't a great love story.
Thanks for your condolences, but she was my birth mom, not my mom who raised me. She is still living.
I just don't see how the nation can continue to support people in this way - them and their spouses (or ex spouses) for the rest of their lives.
It's touchy when we're talking "service". Police officers and firefighters maintain the same thing. But a firefighter where I live already makes more than I do in salary. Many are making 100,000+. Why can't take some of that and save for retirement like I do?
lovelysoul at June 19, 2011 6:28 AM
Why not voucherize the VA? It actually makes more sense to voucherize the VA, and eliniate the 270,00 VA workers, get them off federal payrolls, than it does to voucherize Medicare, which uses private-sector contractors.
As for Defense spending boosting the economy: That is a totally erroneous observation. Sheesh, then let's boost all federal spending. Um, to do that, you have to raise taxes, Taxes punish productive people.
The Department of Defense, VA, and Homeland Security are hopelessly large and inefficient organizations, and probably need to be sunsetted, so that we can start fresh, smaller, better.
Anybody who thinks getting a federal pension, and full medical, after 20 years is not fat city, needs to work 40 years in the private sector, paying taxes, and then get no pension--like most.
Indeed, a guy we retires from the military after 20 years needs only to work 40 quarters (10 years) in the private sector to also qualify for Social Security.
Funny thing about federal spending: Everybody says it must be cut--except for those outlays that come to me.
As former Senator Long said, "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind that tree."
Federal Employment
Department of Defense 3,000,000
Veterans Affairs 275,000
Homeland Security 250,000
Treasury 115,000
Justice 112,000
Energy 109,000
USDA 109,000
Interior 71,000
Labor 17,000
HUD 10,000
Education 4,487
Okay, look at the above list. Now, how do we rein in pension costs?
Screw taxpayers? That's what they are doing, whistledick, you don't have to stick your weenie into the mix. We are getting screwed hard enough already.
BOTU at June 19, 2011 2:21 PM
Funny how BOTU never has a word to say about entitlement spending, which accounts for the bulk of the federal budget. What kind of check are you getting, BOTU?
Cousin Dave at June 19, 2011 4:33 PM
BOTU,
If your post was coherent at all, I might consider responding to it.
whistleDick at June 19, 2011 5:46 PM
"Many are making 100,000+. Why can't take some of that and save for retirement like I do?"
How much are you REQUIRED to pay in union fees to have/keep your job? Ditch unions, period. 2 good friends of mine have hubbies that are firefighters. Both have said more than once they wouldn't have to work if their hubby didn't have to pay the union.
I don't care of someone stays paper-married to someone else for VA benefits. One wife, another wife (or hubby) what does it matter? We're still paying. And while there is room to cut defense, it IS the most basic necessity. I don't begrudge the people who serve or the people who support them, their benefits.
Of course, my Dh served, my dad and FIL were marines in vietnam, my uncles served, my uncles in law (most of them) served......in fact, it would be hard to find a generation in any part of my family or in-laws (and THEY are brown!) going back to the revolution, that hasn't had most men serve. So my opinion is colored by that.
momof4 at June 19, 2011 7:52 PM
I receive no checks at all from the federal government--I only pay taxes, and have been since 1976. I will get no pension from anyone, although I will qualify for Social Security.
I am in favor of reducing entitlement outlays also.
But, if you want to know how federal employees are entitled to get pensions, look at the list I have provided, and remember that some employees of the the Department of Defense qualify for full pensions and medical benefits after just 20 years of service--even if they are 38 years old, and may live another 40-50 years.
Our coprolitic Department of Defense, VA, and Homeland Security agencies should be scaled back, and payrolls radically reduced, along with cuts in entitlements.
As a taxpayer, someone who has pays $600 every two weeks to people on the federal dole, I think I am entitled to my opinions. I am paying the bills, after all.
BOTU at June 19, 2011 9:29 PM
I don't know how much they have to pay the union, M4, but the unions seems like the main problem for local governments.
My husband's business partner's wife is a firefighter/paramedic, and, with overtime, she makes 90,000 a year. She's only been doing this 8 or 9 years. It's a stressful job, and I don't begrudge her that pay, but she makes more than I do annually. And I can't imagine the union fees are worse than a lot of other fees I am charged just to be in business - permit fees, licensing, property and intangible taxes, etc.
In fact, maybe her salary isn't taxed the same way as mine. I don't know. It may even be tax free. At any rate, she should be able to save for retirement with that salary (and she and her husband do). A pension shouldn't be necessary.
Military pensions, however, are probably justified simply due to the difficulty we'd have recruiting kids to get shot at without some nice perks, but there is a tremendous amount of waste involved. Looks like we could have better oversight and make some restrictions. A military wife who actually sacrificed all those years while her husband served should be included, but just to keep including anybody he marries at any point AFTER service doesn't seem right.
lovelysoul at June 20, 2011 4:40 AM
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