My niece was suspended from school for hugging another student.

She was three (3,III) years old.

Did I mention she was three?

Apparently hugging at that school was considered sexual harassment. Yes, that's what I typed, sexual harassment. Again, the child was three. Everybody was clothed, nobody was playing doctor. It was a sweet innocent hug because she loved her friend and wanted to show him so, but because the "victim" was a boy, she was apparently sexually harassing him.

My niece was pulled out of that school quickly, because what sicko sees anything sexual about two pre-schoolers hugging?

What insanity. My girls and I have always been huggers, always will be. We hug just about everyone! In fact, #1's high school yearbook had a page entitled "Can You Imagine..." and for her they had written "Can You Imagine...[#1] not hugging everyone?"

How awful for these 2 kids. And for your niece, dbss. I cannot "imagine" why ANYone would punish these kids for hugging. It's just insane.

Who is running the schools, the Dugger's? I would have to suspend my kids every day. They are group huggers and dogpilers in a big way.

I do find it strange that they are taught "comprehensive sex Ed" but if they do anything like hugging in public it is treated as if it is a criminal offense.

"we cannot discriminate or make an opinion on what is an appropriate hug, what's not an appropriate hug"

Modern liberalism ("progressivism") is based on the principle of controlling all aspects of society via top-down policies. When this is done, then either tremendous amounts of discretion must be allowed to low-level officials...which leads to corruption and official bullying...or the polities must be enforced with computer-like rigidity, which leads to statements like "we cannot discriminate or make an opinion." (MAKE an opinion?)

The only cure is a return to the concept of civil society and the idea that not all aspects of life are matters for The Authorities.

First, stupid reaction, just dumb to tie up resources for this kind of thing, in-school suspension seats are limited and there a better things to use them for. Second, at my last school, we did have a no-hugging rule, enforced only during passing periods and loosely at that. The rule was created to keep students moving in crowded halls. In a school built for 800 with 1100 students things get cramped in the halls during passing period. Before the rule, kids were hugging each other as they passed in the hall, some kids took 2-3 minutes to go 50 feet, and at the same time they were blocking other the students’ movements. This was not about sex, just friends, causing road blocks. The only punishment was being yell at to stop hugging and go to class, unless you just ignored the adult direction and then things might escalate.
Last, stupid to codify something that way and punish kids unless they are disrupting school

"The school's strict policy stipulates that there is no difference between an unwanted hug, or sexual harassment, and a hug between friends."

Say, Principal -- by that logic, there's no difference between consensual sex and rape. C'mere, you cutie you, and take a damned lesson!

Yes, I'd probably be a registered sex offender for doing what my girlfriend wanted in high school. What's next? Jail for chewing gum?

Can you really call the presence of a paddle wielded by Coach and the most serious problem in school being "gum on the desks" unrelated?

What a wonderful way to complete the transformation of school into jail: insist that you treat the thug and the valedictorian the same.

Spokesman says: "the school's focus is on learning; therefore we cannot discriminate or make an opinion..."

If you can't discriminate or make an (intelligent) opinion, then you haven't learned anything! Honestly, Orwell could have put that line into the mouth of a character in 1984.

My son is a now a senior in high school. He has been suspended at least half a dozen times. Probably more like 10-12. Only twice was it for something I considered naughty. Once he changed the screensaver on one of his teacher's computers to something inappropriate and once he retaliated against a kid that grabbed his assignment and and balled it up by grabbing the kid's sports water bottle and squirting the dude in the face. Turns out it was lemonade. Oops.

Twice it was for fighting when he merely defended himself against a bully. Once (when he was in 6th grade) he got suspended for telling a 2nd grader on the bus to hold her tongue and say "apple." Yes indeedy. He truly has gone over to the dark side.

Whatever.

Remember judgment?

*

School administrators said a committee of parents approved the "no hugging" policy years ago, and there aren't plans to change it any time soon. The school's strict policy stipulates that there is no difference between an unwanted hug, or sexual harassment, and a hug between friends.

I'm all for using judgment but I also understand why school administrators prefer a policy like this to using judgment. It's because if they judge a hug as harmless but the parents of little Zoe who was hugged don't judge it that way, then they'll probably be hit with a costly lawsuit.

Oh. Jee. Zus. As an escapee of the Brevard County School system, I can reassure you with complete confidence that the focus is not on learning so much as it is enforcement of ridiculous, arbitrary policies. They banned hugging way back in 1989; we sixth graders made a show of replacing hugs with grandiose, super formal handshakes. Then it was Silent Lunches, because the cafeteria full of kids was deemed too noisy for the parent volunteers (we made buzzing and humming sounds with our mouths closed, and enjoyed very much watching the volunteers try to figure out who the hell was making that racket). Sitting on the bus for two hours after school, because the bus driver refused to drive or let anyone leave until two fifth grade boys could be quiet for ten minutes. Being pulled out of the lunch line and random and searched for cigarettes (don't smoke, never have) because I was wearing a jacket with big pockets. Being given detention (the only detention/ disciplinary action received in 13 years pf school) because I was standing in line for an absentee pass when the bell rang, making me "officially late" for class, even though I'd been standing there for 20 minutes while the dean took her time chatting and writing out passes for the four kids ahead of me. The list goes on. The Brevard County School system was full of bullshit 20 years ago, and I'm sure it's only gotten worse.

Sure they can. But the risk of a lawsuit from parents and attorneys over what they see as unreasonable policies is likely far less than the risk of a lawsuit from parents and attorneys that dislike how school administrators exercised their judgment.

I am all in favor of schools having any kind of asinine policies that they want, as long as they are not funded by tax payer dollars.
When parents can vote with their feet, and not have to continue to pay for the schools anyway, then and only then, will most of this garbage go away.

and a "loser pays" civil justice system, will solve most of the rest of the problems the schools face.

Rerun: Attachment.

See also, Rebellion.

I'm sure the school administrators would let the TSA hug those kids all they want.

It appears to me that some people are too stupid to live. And yet, some how, they keep living.

Color me confused.

I'm sure the school administrators would let the TSA hug those kids all they want.

Brain bleach, stat!

Yes indeedy. He truly has gone over to the dark side.

Excellent. I need a new apprentice.

Some girls are already g***ing h**d in middle school, and these numbskull parents are worried about HUGGING?

"Some girls are already g***ing h**d in middle school, and these numbskull parents are worried about HUGGING?"

Pssst... Boys are kinda sorta involved there, too.

If they've outsourced judgement to a policy, why are they still paying a dean?

Remember when they used to have kissing booths at fairs and such? Yeah, I'm not old enough to remember that either, but I've seen it in Revenge of the Nerds.

I stopped by my local elementary school for their Halloween festival. I was pleasantly surprised to meet a 5th grader dressed as a soldier with two realistic looking toy guns, no SWAT team called. And in the prize booth one of the high end prizes was a pirate sword. The school was actually giving away toys that could get you expelled at other schools.

Reason #371 why my three kids aren't in public school.

You almost can't visit their school without getting a hug from a student, the staff or another parent. Too bad it only goes through 8th grade.

Earlier this week on a field trip to a farm, kids were encouraged to dress like pioneers. One of the kids wore a cap gun. At a public school, he'd have been arrested as a terrorist!

"Utterly ridiculous. Are they trying to raise children or fleshy robots?"

Do you really want to know the answer to that?

I find it ironic that with these policies in place the kids do not learn to differentiate between normal interactions/ behavior and unacceptable. At least not during school hours.

Giving head.

mse, Brevard certainly HAS gotten worse in one respect. Not long ago, some called for a multi-million dollar disbursement "for education", but wouldn't say what it was for. Oh, the outrage that the taxpayers would not trust them!

When I graduated from MIHS, the ROTC armory had, I kid you not, 230 real M-14s for drill purposes and training. I have pictures Mom took of me carrying one in a parade. Now, I'm sure widespread panic would ensue if someone mentioned a real gun - and the Color Guard carries those stupid white planks with chrome tubing out one end.

Radwaste, as an MIHS grad myself, I have no trouble beliving that. The Internet is a small world, huh?

I am a retired teacher. The zero-tolerance rules were created to head off charges of racial discrimination. Of course most people can tell the difference between an innocent hug and a couple hunching against each other up against the lockers. However, if you treat them differently, the parents of the hunchers may claim discrimination. It's the same with a little girl with a dinner knife in her lunch box and a gansta wannabe with a straight razor—you have to treat them the same. Some parents still claim discrimination even in the face of such stupid rules.

"It's the same with a little girl with a dinner knife in her lunch box and a gansta wannabe with a straight razor—you have to treat them the same."

WHY?

Ask that one loudly and repeatedly next time you're at a School Board function.

I was at work, Amy.

She didn't ask us to say it out loud.

It's the same with a little girl with a dinner knife in her lunch box and a gansta wannabe with a straight razor—you have to treat them the same. Some parents still claim discrimination even in the face of such stupid rules. -- ken in sc at November 5, 2011 8:36 AM

There is a difference between the two.

A zero-tolerance rule is not, and never will be, the answer to any issue involving humans.

Defending zero-tolerance is defending socialism or Marxism. You are looking at the equality of the outcome, not the equality of the cause.

What if I were to tell you that if you were caught blowing a .08 from two glasses of wine was the equivalent to blowing a .30 and having run over someone. You both are going to do 15 years and have a felony record.

Would you accept that?

What about using a U-Scan and you forgot the bottle of bleach on the bottom of the cart is the same as someone shoplifting a $15K diamond ring from a jewelry store?

This country was built on the equality of opportunity, not on equality of outcome.

Zero Tolerance is a stupid response to mostly bogus claims of racial discrimination. It does not work because the claims continue. I am glad I am retired.

During the 'white powder, anthrax scare', one of my 7th grade students came to me and said there was white powder on her desk. I looked at it and determined that it was erasure dust. I brushed it away and said that it was erasure dust, don't worry about it. Half of the class gasped. I could have gotten in trouble is they had reported me to the office for not following the 'zero tolerance' policy. Public education needs to be totally reformed or abolished.

Hmm. Now, I'm recalling a few trips with the marching band. A "no-hugging" policy? Heh.

Somebody is going to be shocked.

mse, it sure seems like a small world. Half the people I meet at DragonCon know the Web sites I frequent and most of the memes, now here you are.

My folks sold what is now Island Pointe condominiums in 1983, for not much money. It went through a bunch of hands, then to the condo developer. Each of the units went for what the marina sold for in '83, the boom was so big at Merritt Island. The sad thing is, all of the newcomers have no idea what was once there: adventure, daily. Not a couch and a flat-screen TV, to watch what other people do.

Liability, protecting the flatly stupid, has made private ownership of a marina ridiculous in recent times.