Sending Infectious Diseases In The Mail
Whether the chicken pox virus would even survive through the mail is a question, but how dare these mothers expose their children to chicken pox -- and possibly the painful (and related) disease, shingles, later in life...along with postal workers and others?
Rita Rubin writes for Moms.TODAY:
You've probably heard of "chickenpox parties," where parents get unvaccinated kids together (in the home of an infected child) in the hopes they'll catch the disease. They think making their kids suffer through the disease will help them develop stronger immunity than immunization would provide.But now the buzz is all about people shipping objects that have been contaminated with the chickenpox virus to people who live too far away to attend a pox party.
A Nashville TV station Thursday reported on a local woman who charged $50 a pop to ship suckers smothered in saliva by her sick kids.
Spurred by that story, Nashville federal prosecutor Jerry Martin on Friday warned parents not to try it. "It's illegal and unsafe," Martin told the Associated Press.
A Phoenix TV station last week reported that a Facebook page called "Find a Pox Party in Your Area" was helping to arrange shipments of contaminated objects--jammies, blankets, suckers.
But shortly after the Phoenix story ran, the "pox party" FB page posted a warning:
"The mailing of infectious items, such as lollipops, rags, etc., is a federal offense. This page is not private and can been seen by members and non-members alike. You may post on the page that you have the pox and are willing to share but please keep your specifics in private messages between members. We are all intelligent adults but these guidelines will help protect your privacy. If you'd like to go back and delete your posts about mailing, feel free to do so."
Abuse. You won't get the kid a vaccine, but you'll KNOWINGLY EXPOSE HIM/HER to a live virus in HOPES they contract it?? Insanity. Bad parenting at best, fatal at worst (the number is low, but chicken pox can kill in rare instances). Since these kids are unvaccinated, I'm going to assume these parents are of the anti-vax mindset, which makes this even more insane.
And kids aside, what about any immunodeficient postal carriers or workers who come in contact with the package during transit? The pox may not survive a journey of several days, but is probably still pretty active and funky when it enters the postal system.
mse at November 6, 2011 4:37 AM
Imbecilic. We can't vac our kids, oh no, but exposing them to a disease that can kill them? Sure! A mom in our mothers of multiples group is a 2nd grade teacher. She said goodbye to one of her students one friday, and the next time she saw him was his funeral the following saturday. Chicken pox killed him. My brother had it so bad it was on his eyeballs. My mom said that if dousing herself in gasoline and setting herself on fire couldn't saved him from that, she would've done it in a heartbeat.
Do these purchasers not realize that a sucked on lollipop is going to be growing all sorts of nasty bacteria in addition to the pox?
Why aren't these parents beign prosecuted? Not for their stupidity-although it's tempting but for breaking Federal law?
momof4 at November 6, 2011 5:00 AM
Whoops, "Could've" saved him, above.
momof4 at November 6, 2011 5:01 AM
Yeah, this really does border on child abuse. This also speaks to the failure of our education system. Most of these anti-vaccination types are highly educated yet understand nothing about science. How long, I wonder, before we see the return of polio?
DrMaturin at November 6, 2011 5:23 AM
Neutralized cowpox BAD. Full blown uncultured smallpox GOOD!
These idiots are going to kill someone.
Hard Truth at November 6, 2011 6:53 AM
I'm not one of the anti-vaccine moms but I am not a big fan of the chicken pox vaccine. The incidence of death due to chicken pox as illustrated in momof4's comment is not very common. Chicken pox is more dangerous in adults and that is why I have a problem with the vaccine. My question to the pediatrician was about the long-term of the vaccine. He stated honestly that he wasn't sure which means that if chicken pox is not eradicted, my son or daughter who got the vaccination at 7 as required to be allowed in school now has to worry about contracting it at 30 or 40 or 50 when it is dangerous.
I never purposely exposed my kids to the virus, and I certainly would never mail it or receive it in the mail but I was a little bent that it was a vaccine I had no choice about. MMR? Yes. Poli? Yes. But not the chicken pox vaccine. And not unless they can promise me that my kids will be protected as adults.
On a side note, I'm a fan of the Gardisil. My daughter will get it, not because I'm teaching her to be a slut as some think, but because she can never be 100% sure that any partner is not cheating and bringing it back to her. So chicken pox, no. Gardisil, yes.
Kristen at November 6, 2011 7:16 AM
What in the fuck.
Risk of tragic DEATH aside, it's just so evil and wrong-minded to deliberately put your kid through sickness when there is an alternative. I remember when chicken pox was going around my school and hoping I'd get it, and being excited when I did. I thought it'd be really cool to miss school and stay in bed, plus I felt like I was being inducted into a special club. I loved lazing around as a kid (still do!), and it WAS fun to a point. But it lasted so long, I missed a lot of school and I was SO goddamned itchy!!! And it left marks for at least a year that I felt self-conscious about, plus a tiny scar I still have on my face. I would have been happy to pass up all that for a simple shot.
And my brother had it bad twice. I know that is not supposed to happen, but somehow he didn't fully get over it the first time. That vaccine might have been a real godsend for him as well as my mom who nursed him!
That any mother would TRY to put their kid through chicken pox now, when there is a safe and effective vaccine, is so cruel and BRAINLESS!
YTS at November 6, 2011 7:28 AM
"Most of these anti-vaccination types are highly educated yet understand nothing about science."
That's because the word "educated" doesn't mean what it used to mean. Today, "educated" is almost a synonym for "politically correct"; it means that one has been trained and holds to a specific belief system. Whether or not the principles of said belief system actually have any basis in fact is beside the point. And America's politically correct elites have always had an anti-science and anti-technology underpinning to their beliefs (at least, since the 20th century). I ran into this as a teenager back in the '70s, and I wasn't the only one.
Cousin Dave at November 6, 2011 7:51 AM
Well, Bad Astronomer, Respectful Insolence and the giant Pharyngula have all noticed this - some of which readers are petitioning that state's AG and others to prosecute.
Radwaste at November 6, 2011 7:57 AM
Correction: PZ has only linked to RI.
I hope he takes professional notice, because his biology threads are seriously detailed.
Radwaste at November 6, 2011 8:14 AM
I'm pretty sure I was vaccinated for chicken pox as a kid, but when the neighbor kids got them, I was told to go play with them (age 5-6). The reason given (later in life) was that chicken pox is not as bad for kids but can be deadly for adults.
I got chicken pox. I got calamine lotion. I got over it.
Donkeyrock at November 6, 2011 9:39 AM
Correction: while I did get vaccines when I was young (70s) apparently the chicken pox vaccine didn't come out until 1995. http://www.vaccineinformation.org/varicel/qandavax.asp
Donkeyrock at November 6, 2011 9:43 AM
I got chicken pox. I got calamine lotion. I got over it."
Obviously. You're here. That's a pretty self-selecting sample group.
momof4 at November 6, 2011 9:48 AM
I had chicken pox when I was a kid. Then later, like a couple of years ago, I had shingles.
Shingles sucks. Big time. It kept me out of work for a week because it was such a mild case. I've been given to understand that some people have to be hospitalized for it, and that the nerve pain can last for years. I didn't get that, a situation for which I'm very grateful.
I see a pox vaccine for a child as a way of preventing the shingles later. And if you actually *get* chicken pox, you are most likely going to get shingles.
Remember when I said that shingles sucks?
Steve Daniels at November 6, 2011 10:14 AM
Re the chicken pox vaccine, I havent bothered to keep up becuase I'm never having kids. But as Kristen noted her doctor didnt know if it gave immunity for adult or how often they would have to get booster shots as they aged.
Chicken pox isnt the scourge that small pox or polio was, but it can kill - ususally adults.
As fro the after effects of the pox, I dont know the age of most of you, but the members of my family usualy get their first outbreak of shingles before the age of 30.
I was realitivly lucky, just a small 2 or 3 square inch patch on my abdomen and from what I understand all ubsequent outbreaks will be in the same spot a roughtly the same size. My aunt had it across her back and up under her hairline.
I swear to god it was THE most painful thing I ever experienced, worse then the time I fell off a cliff, worse then the time I got hit by a car, worse then the time the cut open my side and carved out half my lung.
If I had a kid, I'd probably give them the shot, not to avoid the pox, but to avoid shingles later in life.
As for anyone shipping pox infected material they should be prosecuted.
lujlp at November 6, 2011 10:16 AM
We had both of our kids immunized against chicken pox. They both proceeded to contract the disease. Twice. The doctor said he'd never heard of a case of someone catching the chicken pox twice, let alone two people. We mentioned it to my mother-in-law who then said to my wife, "Oh, you had it twice too! Don't you remember?" So we're kind of assuming it's a genetic trait they inherited from my wife's inferior genes.
Jim S. at November 6, 2011 10:25 AM
I've had both my girls vacc'ed for chicken pox the moment the youngest reached the minimum age required. That is, after I found out such a vaccine EXISTED to begin with, as I had no idea.
Here in Belgium, the chicken pox vac is available, though not widespread as it is not refunded, not promoted by the regular channels and, as such, pretty much unknown.
Myself, I was fortunate enough as a child to get chicken pox three (!!!) times, twice the regular version and once just the palms of my hands and the soles of my feet, which I assure you was AGONY as well. I will do pretty much anything to spare my children that experience, so I leapt at the chance to have them vaccinated.
Since no-one seems to be using it in Belgium, I did all the research myself, read the studies, contact the Center for Tropical Illnesses to see their stance on the matter and finally went to the doctor. Who, by the way, after happily taking my money for giving the girls their shots, proceeded to inform me that "normal parents" let their children "just get chicken pox and get over it, like nature intended".
This from a medical professional with 40+ years of experience, with a very firm stance against homeopathy, whose opinion I thusfar respected. Can I just say I was very thankful at that moment that I had had the audacity to contact some authorities on the subject prior to the visit.
Several weeks prior, upon mentioning our discovery of its existance, my inlaws were abhorred that I would not let my children contract the disease naturally, as they seem to think this will somehow boost their immune system. Or something.
So many people appear to have not to have the faintest idea of how our immune system works, but sadly, this seems to be reversely proportionate with their loudness in spouting their opinions.
I cannot for a moment imagine willingly exposing my children to some kind of bacteria sent through the mail by a random stranger! Let alone paying them for the priviledge! Who in their right mind does that?!
EllenM at November 6, 2011 10:55 AM
Me and my bro had chicken pox as kids. No prob. I've never known anyone that had shingles. It has never blipped my radar.
My own son was vaccinated for chicken pox. He still caught it, but a very, very mild case. My brother didn't vax his kids for pox and they all caught it.
All three of his kids caught, one right after another. It was hell on him trying to work and trying to watch the girls when no daycare would take them. I ended up watching his youngest girl while she was actively poxing since he is a single dad and couldn't miss work nor put her in her usual daycare. He lived almost 200 miles away and he brought her to me to watch while she was sick.
LauraGr at November 6, 2011 11:38 AM
This is by no means a new idea.
Doesn't anyone else remember reading "The Great Brain" back in elementary school? One of the chapters in the book (or maybe it was in a sequel) talks about his mother keeping all the kids together in one room once one of the kids contracted chicken pox. This was at the turn of the century. Even then chicken pox was usually not fatal, just annoying, and his mother wanted to get it all over with ASAP.
And EllenM, contracting non-fatal forms of diseases is precisely how vaccination works. When you get the flu shot, for instance, you are being given the flu. That's why they tell you that you may get a mild form of the flu when you get the shot. Vaccines are not antidotes. Again, they are very mild forms of the disease that they are trying to protect against. Hence, getting chicken pox as a child is the best defense against (a) getting it again and (b) contracting chicken pox or shingles as an adult, which can be fatal. Realize, please, that the fact that you contracted chicken pox multiple times makes you an anomaly.
Homeopathy takes the vaccine theory to the very edges of ridiculousness with the very minute, dilute doses of whatever the "cure" would be, but that doesn't mean that vaccines don't strengthen the immune system. I'll say it again--vaccines are very small doses of the disease they are meant to protect against, not antidotes to the disease.
So while I'm not a mother, if I did have kids, I'd go ahead and send my kid to one of these parties because not a single person in my family has had chicken pox twice, nor do we have compromised immune systems. We don't sterilize constantly. And my mother being a farm girl, we believe in the 'eat a peck of dirt in your lifetime' approach to robust health. And it seems to be working so far.
deathbysnoosnoo at November 6, 2011 11:40 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/sending_infecti.html#comment-2744324">comment from deathbysnoosnooVirginia Postrel just came down with shingles. (@VPostrel)
Amy Alkon at November 6, 2011 12:08 PM
"Hence, getting chicken pox as a child is the best defense against (a) getting it again and (b) contracting chicken pox or shingles as an adult, which can be fatal"
Not quite. You can get childhood chicken pox, recover completely, and then get shingles seemingly from out of nowhere 40 years later because the virus still present in your body suddenly emerges from dormancy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002559/
"Usually, a person recovers without complications. Once you have had chicken pox, the virus usually remains dormant or asleep in your body for your lifetime. About 1 in 10 adults will have shingles when the virus re-emerges during a period of stress"
Martin at November 6, 2011 12:54 PM
Hence, getting chicken pox as a child is the best defense against (a) getting it again and (b) contracting chicken pox or shingles as an adult, which can be fatal
Nope Sorry, getting chicken pox causes shingles as an adult
lujlp at November 6, 2011 2:35 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/sending_infecti.html#comment-2745052">comment from lujlpThanks, luj...and you are correct...you are in danger of having shingles if you have had chicken pox.
Amy Alkon at November 6, 2011 3:40 PM
Wrong on another point, deathbysnoo. Vaccines don't give you the disease. They are dead/inactivated pathogens. Your body recognizes them (actually the proteins embedded in their cell membranes) and makes cells to combat them, but they can't reproduce. You do not get the flu from the flu vaccine (I do believe there *may* be one form that uses live vaccine) but you might get symptoms of immune response-ie fever and mucus. 2 of the ways your body fights any germ.
momof4 at November 6, 2011 4:16 PM
Also, what's a snoosnoo, and how does it take you down?
Crid at November 6, 2011 4:54 PM
tweet
Crid at November 6, 2011 4:56 PM
For Crid:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snoo+snoo
LauraGr at November 6, 2011 5:03 PM
For those of us who take pride in our skills, in our relentless, laserlike attention to the feelings of the partner, this is a no-go.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 6, 2011 8:07 PM
What no one is getting is that Chicken Pox is a form of the Herpes virus.
I had chicken pox as a kid, naturally, but that was before the vaccine.
Cold sores, the vaginal version, chicken pox, and shingles are all related.
Exposing anyone to any of these diseases is just plain stupid.
Jim P. at November 6, 2011 8:12 PM
but the members of my family usualy get their first outbreak of shingles before the age of 30
Mine, too. My mom got it when she was about 15 and I got it at 26. Probably a genetic factor at work there, since my doctor told me it tends to strike those over 50 more often. Like you, luj, I just had a small patch on my forehead, near my hairline, but the pain extended all along that cranial nerve on the left side of my head. And I caught it really early (before any bumps) because my grandmother had just been diagnosed with it and we had the same symptoms. As mild as my case was, it was incredibly painful. And, yes, one must have had chicken pox to get shingles. That said, deliberately exposing kids to disease is a specious argument for building their immune systems. They think they're administering the disease in a controlled way, but there are so many things you can't control for. I'm not totally sold on the vaccine for all kids, but there is a middle ground between pox-by-mail and giving your kids decontamination showers every time they come in the house.
What no one is getting is that Chicken Pox is a form of the Herpes virus.
I was on acyclovir for my shingles, and I got new insurance about six months later and had to disclose any prescription drugs I'd taken in the last year. The follow-up phone call was full of questions about what other STDs I might have had during that time. Turns out it's the exact same medication prescribed for genital herpes.
NumberSix at November 6, 2011 8:32 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/sending_infecti.html#comment-2746096">comment from NumberSixI knew a guy in New York who had shingles in his 30s. Debilitating pain.
Amy Alkon at November 6, 2011 8:58 PM
I just had a conversation with my son's pediatrician about the Chicken Pox vaccine while he was in for his scheduled vaccinations (he's no old enough for the chicken pox vaccine yet). She informed me that this vaccine may not fully prevent Chicken Pox, but as in LauraGr's instance, if he does contract Chicken Pox it will be a much milder case. I would like to think that all parents would want their children to have the least amount of pain and discomfort possible. I really do not understand the anti vaccination crowd.
Brit at November 6, 2011 9:45 PM
if he does contract Chicken Pox it will be a much milder case
If that's true, it's definitely a plus. That's what concerns me about the pox party pinheads. They don't know how severe the disease will be when their kids get it. Even if little Jimmy wasn't terribly sick, little Susie might not be so lucky. I get the idea, and I am in favor of building kids' immune systems by not sterilizing them all the time, but the basement at your neighbor's house is not a controlled laboratory environment where a trained professional can keep an eye on your kid until he's over the pox. You're not being "scientific," people, just because you're supposedly administering the virus in a safe way.
Opening a package to find a lollipop with some kid's spit on it reminds me very much of this. In the words of the man mentioned in the article above, Jerry Martin, the very sensible man from my neck of the woods: "Can you imagine getting a package in the mail from this complete stranger that you know from Facebook because you joined a group, and say here, drink this purported spit from some other kid?"
NumberSix at November 6, 2011 11:01 PM
I am another one who has chicken pox twice - once as a toddler and once in first grade. The time in first grade was really nasty. I missed so much school I almost had to repeat the grade (the made kids do that back then).
My ex-sister-in-law is anti vacininer so I looked into her claims for my brother. Scarily a lot of her claims had some merit. The Chicken Pox is a live virus vaccine (I just Googled and that appears to be the same today) and recipients can come down with sickiness though it should be quite mild. (This happened to the neighbor boy.) It is far from 100% protection - IIRC the documentation at the time said it was about 75% effective though in the time between niece needing the shot and my nephew needing it, it was about 50% effective in the kids they knew. The vaccine can cause shingles though experts thinking it should be a milder form.
The company offered free flew shots to its associates two weeks ago - shots not the mist so the "dead" virus. Yet it seems a lot of people have been out with flu-like symptoms and it has passed on to other people who did not get the shot. Similar things have happened at previous employers so frankly I question how dead the virus really is.
The Former Banker at November 6, 2011 11:41 PM
Banker, gthere are lots of flulike virus's that aren't the flu. My kids were just sick the better part of 2 weeks with what sure seemed like the flu, but flu test at 2 different clinics came back neg. So the fact that a virus is going aroud the office doens't mean it's the shot.
momof4 at November 7, 2011 4:44 AM
I had Chicken pox in first grade as well, my younger sister caught it from a pre-school classmate whose parent sent them to school knowingly, because they were of the opinion that everyone should have the disease as children to avoid it as adults. This was before the vaccine.
I had pox in my throat and inside my genitals. The doctor we went to said it was the worst case he had seen. I then got shingles when I was 15.
I'm not very pro-vaccine ( I avoid the flu shot, aside from when I was pregnant) but if there's a way to keep my child from suffering the way I did, I'll sure take it.
Jazzhands at November 7, 2011 6:44 AM
I have had a flu shot twice. Both times I came down with flu like symptoms. Rather severe flu like symptoms. Strangely enough, I have never had the flu or flu like symptoms at any other time.
Correlation is not causation. Still.... I won't get another flu shot.
LauraGr at November 7, 2011 7:57 AM
Southpark did a really good episode on this.
***
I remember that when my brother and I ended up with chicken pox, some of the neighbors sent their kids over to play in hopes that their kids would get it, too.
It must've been the mid or late 80's... I had a mild enough case that I don't remember much about it.
We vaccinate, and I would never get my kid sick on purpose. I think, though, that the "infect your kid on purpose" mindset is pretty common.
You know they used to send smallpox scabs through the mail? (They'd use the scabs to vaccinate somehow.) I don't recall the particulars of the story, but an old letter containing a smallpox scab was found in some archives and a mild panic ensued at the facility where it was discovered.
ahw at November 7, 2011 8:34 AM
Great, guys, now I'm terrified I'm going to get shingles! I had chicken pox when I was a kid, and I never want to repeat it. I had itchy bumps everywhere!! The thing that concerns me is that I have heard, as mentioned above, that the vaccine may not last into adulthood, and that chicken pox is more dangerous for adults. I have heard that once you have chicken pox as a kid, you won't get it again, which I see isn't always true. Knowing about the shingles, though, I am still going to have my child vaccinated against chicken pox.
Angie at November 7, 2011 8:41 AM
"And EllenM, contracting non-fatal forms of diseases is precisely how vaccination works."
Yah, or, alternatively, you can, I don't know... inject a dead/weakened specimen of the virus, as opposed to subjecting your child to a full-blown, painful version of it, especially when the necessity of actually getting the disease is rendered obsolete by modern science.
Please don't pretend to inform me that going through the real thing is required to be vaccinated.
Also, since I'm such an anomaly, how do you rate the chances my children will have inherited my apparently superhuman ability to contract multiple rounds of unpleasant illnesses? How lucky for them, winning the genetic lottery like that.
I'd rather get the chicken pox a fourth time than watch either of my girls (or, more likely, both, and simultaneously) suffer through it.
EllenM at November 7, 2011 11:42 AM
"Great, guys, now I'm terrified I'm going to get shingles! I had chicken pox when I was a kid, and I never want to repeat it. I had itchy bumps everywhere!! "
I wouldn't worry about it all that much... after all, before the vaccine was developed, nearly everyone had chicken pox at some time or another, and most of those people didn't develop shingles later.
"The thing that concerns me is that I have heard, as mentioned above, that the vaccine may not last into adulthood, and that chicken pox is more dangerous for adults. "
That may be, but look at it this way: Say the vaccine lasts for 15 years. By the time it starts to wear off, fifteen years from now, it's pretty likely that the industry will have developed a better and more effective vaccine.
Cousin Dave at November 7, 2011 5:40 PM
Both times I came down with flu like symptoms.
You cannot get the flu from a vaccine using the dead virus. You can, however, get flu-like symptoms from lots of different vaccines. It's the vaccination you're reacting to, not the influenza virus. It's just like side-effects from prescription medications. You're injecting or ingesting an unrecognized substance, and people react differently and severity varies. If you have such a bad reaction to the flu shot that you might as well have had the flu, then by all means you shouldn't get it again. But you did not get the flu from the flu shot if it was the dead virus vaccine.
NumberSix at November 7, 2011 8:19 PM
NumberSix, I totally agree with you. Shots were highly encouraged by my employers to cut down on loss of productivity. It turns out I got as sick from the shot as if I just gotten the flu.
Normally I have a robust constitution. Smack me twice and I learned. Don't need a third go.
LauraGr at November 7, 2011 8:35 PM
Encouraging kids to expose themselves to measles, chicken pox, etc made sense when vaccines weren't widely available. The likelihood of it being serious when young is much lower (but not non-existent) so it was worthwhile to get it over with. It's stupid now. And as many people have noted, there's no guarantee anyway.
I was never vaccinated against chicken pox, MMR yes though. Got it when I was 15. Ouch, that really hurt. Two weeks in bed. No shingles as yet though (touch wood).
I did end up with a couple of minor pox scars around my genitals though - hey, you try not scratching it!
Ltw at November 7, 2011 9:09 PM
I need to set a daily quota on use of the "though" though.
Oops.
Ltw at November 7, 2011 9:11 PM
Angie,
Short of your immune system breaking down, you probably won't ever get shingles. Herpes Simplex I is, generally, the cold sores around the mouth. Many people have them once and never have them again. Other people have them every year.
Herpes Simplex II is, generally, genital herpes. It is a can reoccur frequently, or just happen once.
Chicken pox (varicella zoster virus) is the same virus that causes shingles. If you have it as a child, it will be dormant in your system for the rest of your life. (Short of extraordinary circumstances.) About .34% have shingles later in life.
Most of these are from severely compromised immune systems such as HIV, prolonged high stress, or anything that compromises your immune syndrome.
Testing for herpes is essentially useless. Almost everyone has been exposed to one form or another.
Worrying about it on top of your day-to-day life is pointless. If it does happen get a scrip for acyclovir and move on.
Jim P. at November 7, 2011 10:32 PM
"Worrying about it on top of your day-to-day life is pointless. If it does happen get a scrip for acyclovir and move on."-Jim P.
I know this, and obviously I would just treat it if I had a problem.
I was sort of kidding around when I said I was terrified, but I do appreciate the comments back letting me know that it isn't something to worry about too much. I had never heard that chicken pox can lead to shingles, so it's good to know in any case. I'm generally pretty healthy and my immune system seems in good shape, so I'm not too concerned. I did read up a bit on shingles though, and it sure sounds miserable.
Angie at November 8, 2011 10:29 AM
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