People always talk about the passive-aggressive Nice Guys, but they have their female counterpart.

I read Glover's book and passed it along to a man who was going through divorce. He realized, this is a whole-life issue, not just about dating and relating, and it applied to everything he'd been doing.
There's still trouble finding a consensus on what makes a "Nice Guy" versus a guy-who-is-nice. Most women use the term Nice Guy and Real Man interchangeably, which is totally wrong!
It's possible to not be a Nice Guy, and still fail due to being "nice".
It's all about projecting VALUE. It's not enough to call this or that behaviour self-defeating, we have to understand WHY it does that. The dating gurus teach us what behaviouers to avoid, but the lesson sometimes gets lost in the learning.
Nice Guys fail to project VALUE. Often it seems counter-intuitive: If I offer a girl a drink, I'm not projecting power and virtue, I'm projecting low value... I'm SUPPLICATING. If she asks me for a drink, and I comply, I'm SUBMISSIVE. If a man is submissive to a woman, what'll he do when there's another man to contend with? This is evolutionary stuff.
If she asks me for a drink, and I make her dance with me, I now project value. She has to work for what she wants.
If she asks me for a drink and I make her buy one for me instead, she'll go home with me.
There's also genuine Value, and then there's FALSE Value. An IM-- Integrated Male-- projects genuine value. Inmate felons project FALSE Value, but to most women, the effect *feels* the same! It explains why these creeps are so powerfully attractive, and addictive.
It's known that corporate CEOs share a lot in common with prison felons, and this gets dicey: they are often real psychopaths.

I want to call in on this one, but wonder if Amy will come over to my place and beat me up. When men refuse to pander to women or at least question their behavior, Amy pulls out the shaming ploys and calls them whiners or losers who can't get dates.

Sometimes it doesn't matter how the man acts just as for women: If a guy is good looking and drives a Lexus, he can slam the door in women's faces and forget to pick up the tab and he'll still get plenty of action.

Here's my definition of a doormat: Someone who does nice things for people without getting what he has sounds reasons to believe in return or puts up with abuse. It sounds easy to NOT be that way but there are always points in relationships where we need to grit out teeth that our partners or loved ones are being jerks or not appreciating what we do for them. It's especially hard at the beginning of a relationship when there is no history to establish whether such a situation is temporary or not.

In "Anne of the Thousand Days," Anne Boleyn's sister, who'd had an affair with Henry VIII, is told by her father that her mistake was "you gave him everything and asked for nothing."

In the same vein, nice people can hold on to their autonomy and dignity. Those who don't, often can't keep their partners, because the latter get bored quickly.

To give another example, being a nice modern woman certainly doesn't mean letting him do all the inviting and spending, but it shouldn't have to mean always outspending him just to hold on to his attention - even when desperate.

I (highly respectfully) disagree with you Amy. There's a difference between calling someone out versus dismissing them as whiners or dumb.

What I find strange about this particular discussion is that you're labeling as nice guys those who "become what others want him to be" while simultaneously telling men that make modern demands of women to shut up lest they not get dates.

And how hard is it even for "nice guys" to get dates if they are willing to pay for them? Simply "getting dates" isn't the solution to these men's problems. Although quite frankly, I would rather wash cars than go out on a typical dinner date.

The man I gave my copy to is now moving in with a client of mine, a divorced hottie blonde. He says he can hardly believe this. We've all known each other for years. I was supposed to be dating another woman we know, but that crashed&burned! I was guilty, in the middle of that, of what Glover calls a "Victim Puke".

The psycho corporate CEOs I was thinking of are the ones that we read about in "Snakes In Suits-- When psychopaths go to work." They are the ones who are currently raping our economy and being rewarded in the process with our tax dollars.
Oh well, it's just flim-flam money, anyway.

Amy, I read the blob on the amazon site and reviews and largely agree with it. Ironically, our very conversation is a perfect example of what one positive reviewer said of the book: "Avoiding conflicts in relationships is problematic - Women do not feel safe with a man they know they can push around. A woman wants to know you will stand up to her. That is how she will feel secure in the relationship. There is a catch - she has to test to see if she can trust you. When you set a boundary, she may strongly test and push against the boundary. She will tell you that you are wrong for having the boundary and do her best to find out if the boundary is for real."

In other words, Amy, this sounds like the typical claim that women are like teenage girls who need daddy to tell them what to do and that the single greatest thing men bring to a relationship isn't just the money and protection, but tough adult decision making. It's rather difficult for me to take your claims that I'm wrong and in need of your advice based upon facts and science when your references seem to imply that, as a woman, you're the least logical thinking creature on the planet. And no, I do NOT disagree with that conclusion!

I'm looking forward to this one! I probably won't listen to it live, but; I'll definitely catch the podcast and may even pick up his book.

Be sure to ask the author if and how the subject matter in his book relates to women, sex, and dating.

I'm looking forward to this one! I probably won't listen to it live, but; I'll definitely catch the podcast and may even pick up his book.

Be sure to ask the author if and how the subject matter in his book relates to women, sex, and dating.