"the love of Allah"?

Better to say "the hatred of Man". When suffering is the primary product of a religion it isn't about "love".

The problem is that until those who are under Sharia speak up, the only thing we on the outside can do is to isolate or kill them.

Those who want to leave need to leave the barbarism behind.

The power of tits.

Video & more pics of the Paris protest at the Femen website here:

http://femen.livejournal.com/202879.html

Nip oppressive government in the bud.

But, in the escalating war for public attention, what is next? I'll be watching closely.

> Islam is behind the state-ordered slaying
> of a young mother.

Your inclusion of the word "state" is really, really weird.

Amy Amy Amy... If Pakistan were Christian but just as primitive and disconnected as it is today, would things be any better over there?

You want too badly for this to be about churches.

I am somewhat bias; but, usually in my opinion the ones who "go naked for a cause" are often fat and ugly (both men and women who really should not go naked for any reason in public!) and their "cause" is some stupid idiotic stuff.

But, when the beautiful women are willing to do it then it must be for a really good cause, as is this case.

These women (and quite good-looking!)as Ukranians are a little less than just one generation removed from living in a country where the state ran their lives. So, perhaps, their eyes are more open than others. Kudos to them.

>Your inclusion of the word "state" is really, really weird

Only in the sense that Islam and the state are one in the same. Do you really think that the Catholic church would order the slaying of a young, allegedly adulterous mother? Or that any government would be legally bound to honor such a sentence ... In this century?

> Do you really think that the Catholic church
> would order the slaying of a young, allegedly
> adulterous mother?

I think that when it was the central administrative and wealth-controlling institution in society, the Catholic church did exactly that.

IOW, by saying "in this century", you're begging the question... Or conceding my point, that primitivism is the larger problem.

Out here in the real world, the Vatican (and the Southern Baptist Convention, etc.) aren't too terribly interested in expanding into the most impoverished corners of the Third World, especially if there are already faiths in place with established market share (i.e., Islam). They'd rather concentrate on somewhat more developed countries which are [A.] wealthier and [B.] already made receptive by Christian history. But if those faiths were still working with illiterate, impoverished populations?

> Only in the sense that Islam and the state
> are one in the same.

In much of the primitive world, Islam and the State are one and the same, because the warlord's got a gun in one hand and a Koran in the other; Pakistan's tribal areas are the perfect example.

The churches in the modern world aren't deferential to secular authority by humble nature; they've been beaten into submission by the persuasions of modernity.

The churches in the modern world aren't deferential to secular authority by humble nature; they've been beaten into submission by the persuasions of modernity. -- Crid [CridComment at gmail] at April 1, 2012 9:02 PM

I actually have no problem with that. Granted that the new testament came out around Julius Caesar, but that isn't pertinent.

The problem is when religion drives the agenda. I can deal with murder is wrong but I have an issue with Roe, DOMA, The 18th, etc. Why were they implemented?

"The churches in the modern world aren't deferential to secular authority by humble nature"

There were Catholic tyrannies in the Western world in modern times. Amy blogged about one of them here:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/02/14/spains_stolen_b.html

Note that the theft & trafficking of babies by the Church continued long after Generalissimo Franco kicked the bucket in '75. Having said that, there were no public stonings, or acid attacks on little girls going to school.

"Out here in the real world, the Vatican (and the Southern Baptist Convention, etc.) aren't too terribly interested in expanding into the most impoverished corners of the Third World"

Horseshit. That's exactly where they're expanding. There are already a lot more Christians in the Third World than the First World, and their growth is much faster:

http://www.whychurch.org.uk/worldwide.php

And yes the Church (in Africa in particular) is in fierce competition with Islam for souls and territory.

Amy Amy Amy... If Pakistan were Christian but just as primitive and disconnected as it is today, would things be any better over there?

You want too badly for this to be about churches.

Posted by: Crid

Two things crid, for a guy how constanty harps on me for spelling and grammer mistakes as a result of a worldwide recognised condition you sure seem to make a number of grammer mistakes yourself

Second, if pakistan was a christian nation I'm sure these sorts of things would happen, but they wouldnt be justifyable under religious tradition

I saw a couple of guys being hanged in public in the video. I am sure the topless women were not protesting against that...in fact, they probably want more of it.And I am sure the topless women don't care about the fact that while women are stoned, guys are actually beheaded in islam....and even if they knew, they probably want more of the beheadings as long as it is not that of women