Wanna Pay 60 Percent Of Your Income In Taxes?
That's how they get "free" health care in France. From Paris Chronicles:
The French national health system, la sécurité sociale, is often cited as one of the best in the world. It served as a model for ObamaCare and Michael Moore gives it ample laudatory footage in his 2007 film "Sicko". But as with any industry where humans are involved, there is good and there is the not-so-good. And then there is the downright ridiculous, which I wrote about in the Papaya Cure.As a longtime beneficiary of the health system here, (and surely an even more-active consumer-to-be now that I'm a quinquagenarian) I've had lots of opportunities to observe and experience some of the terrific--as well as odd--services that make the French national health system one of the most talked-about when we talk about healthcare.
The Good and the Enviable: Cost
"In France, you pay into the system according to your means. And you take out of the system according to your illness."
I'm misquoting Karl Marx here, but this is the core philosophy upon which the French system is constructed. Outsiders often think that the French system of socialized medicine is free. Guide books will tell you that should you take ill while vacationing in France, you can walk into any emergency room and be treated "without paying a dime!". But the reality is that it's not free--we are taxed heavily (I pay 60% of my gross salary back to the government and they disburse it to several agencies, the healthcare system being but one of them). In that way, paying taxes is a bit like paying an obligatory insurance policy. If you have children, get sick a lot (or have children who get sick a lot), live to be old (and get sick a lot), you'll be very happy that you and your fellow citizens paid all those taxes all those years. On the other hand if you are childless, in excellent health and age without incident, you'll never get your money back out of the system. But you are helping the Community (which is, after all, one of the tenets of the French Republic) so that alone will get you in to heaven. (And with that sentence, I just violated another tenet of the French Republic, which is to never mix the sacred and the secular.)
I've already amortized my investment. Between birthing one baby on French soil and having a serious accident with a resulting year of physiotherapy, I'd say the French have put about 1.5 million dollars in me at this point. So you'll never hear me complaining about the system here, unless it's about the hospital food.
A commenter writes:
Doctors overprescribe...you never leave a doctor consultation without a prescription for at least six medications, most of which can be bought OTC. But if the doctor prescribes them, they are "free" so the French prefer to visit the doctor to save a couple of euros on the tylenol or whatever. I've always found this odd, although I guess when you are 70 you have more time to spend going to see various practioners.
Oh, and college in France is practically free -- to those attending, not to the other citizens who are paying their way. Here from Wikipedia:
Tuition costsSince higher education is funded by the state, the fees are very low; the tuition varies from 150€ to 700€ depending on the university and the different levels of education. (licence, master, doctorate). One can therefore get a Master's degree (in 5 years) for about 750-3,500€. Additionally, students from low-income families can apply for scholarships, paying nominal sums for tuition or textbooks, and can receive a monthly stipend of up to 450€/month.
The tuition in public engineering schools is comparable to universities, albeit a little higher (around 700€). However it can reach 7000€ a year for private engineering schools, and some business schools, which are all private or partially private, charge up to 8900€ a year.
Lovely, huh -- except for how France is broke off its ass?
While I have my doubts regarding the healthcare model, I have seen the French college model in detail and I believe it is one of the best in the world. Here is why:
College is free or nominal, but not everyone can get into it. Seats are limited and only those who clear the entrance exams can get in.The entrance exams are rigorous and anyone who clears it can get into it as long as they clear it. What this does is result in a pool of good talent all in one place for any prospective employer to pick and it reduces the search cost for good employees for any employer. If someone gets into the high ranked college, it is because he was good and not because his dad was a big industrialist and could afford the exorbitant fees required or belonged to the right lineage the way it is in USA. And another plus is that if people do not get into the college, they just reconcile to the fact that maybe they are not cut out for it and try something more suited to their skills. Contrast this with US where they just try getting into a lower ranked school with the same insane fees and thereby get a worthless degree which just leaves them in debt for life.
Till a couple of years back, the french college system did not have the crappy diversity quotas either which plague almost every aspect of life in the US. Of course, politicians being what they are try to target the successful rather than the failures and try to bring down the successful rather than bring up the failures and started trying to push for diversity quotas there as well. I have not followed whether it has actually been implemented or not. If it has, then a nail has been driven into the coffin for one of the best systems in the world
Redrajesh at June 2, 2012 10:27 AM
To Redrajesh,
College Exams
The characteristic of all "free" stuff handed out by government is that it is severely rationed. Maybe the French admission tests are exquisite at determining who can benefit from college and who cannot. Or maybe not. The losers reconcile themselves to the decision of the government.
Egalitarianism
About the sons of rich French industrialists. Are there many stories in France of those sons being refused for a highly ranked college? If not, then there is favoritism within the French socialist system. History shows more favoritism in socialist systems. Maybe France is different.
Success
Possibly the French are great at government run universities. Overall, their government is going broke, so they are not so good at the other things.
I'm not claiming the US is any better. The US is going broke also. The overall problem is government control, lack of choice, corruption, and lack of innovation to discover better and cheaper offerings.
Andrew_M_Garland at June 2, 2012 12:46 PM
"Maybe the French admission tests are exquisite at determining who can benefit from college and who cannot"
College is of no benefit to anyone. It is basically a filtration to ensure that people who have got through it are good enough and well employable in the field chosen. This, the French system does exceedingly well. Anyone who comes out of a French government college will have no difficulty in getting a job suited to his college degree. Plus their expectation in terms of pay is not too high because they don't have a debt to clear when they come out of college, so they work for lower wages compared to USA even though they came out of college. This is not the case in USA.
"Possibly the French are great at government run universities. Overall, their government is going broke, so they are not so good at the other things."
I never said that France is good overall. I just said their education system is one of the best in the world(or used to be).
I guess we have our differing viewpoints on what we like and do not like about France and USA. Overall, both the countries are hobbling about like old people with arthritis.
Redrajesh at June 2, 2012 8:05 PM
To Redrajesh,
We agree about college
College is an expensive IQ test
In an ironic twist, I could agree that France is "better" than the US because it mostly restricts the college scam to those who would be the least misled and harmed by it.
But, I am offended that their government would officially determine who gets credentials in French society. That is not Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité.
I don't accuse you of thinking that France is good overall. I only think it is unlikely that France is making great decisions about who gets credentials when France and other goverments are so bad at everything else I know of.
Cheers.
Andrew_M_Garland at June 2, 2012 8:25 PM
It's great that French colleges don't cost much. It's also great you don't have to pay for your medical care.
You also have to work 219 of 365 days of every year for to pay for it. Sixty percent is not free.
If you look at the numbers on a five day work week it is 156 days (5 * 52) * .6. That is out of 260 working days. But that is of course on a 40 hour work week. Since 2000, in France anything over 35 hours is overtime. So if you are making €10 an hour. You work 35 hours That €350 you earned you get €140 to take home. €350 - ((35 * €10) * .6) = €140. The government is taking €260 of that home too.
Is that fair?
Jim P. at June 3, 2012 8:00 AM
Just a quick thought or two. I do like the idea of free education for people. It helps society and a country. Of course, it takes government to screw it up and waste the money.
Nice that France government pays for education. But who says it has to be government. Imagine this Microsoft decided to pay for an education of students. But it wanted to test ALL children. So through exams and tests. Find those people that will do great and fulfill what ever requirement they want. Deal is made and MS pays for it. Throws in the contract of once done you work for us with CONDITIONS(to be hashed out) upon if you take the money. Actually many do I think they are called scholarships. Still if MS loses money on the venture it is their money not mine through taxes, but if they end up with skilled workers then they are ahead.
With government they end up with useful people but also with skilled but overall useless people too. Still with no conditions of said graduates even will be beneficial for society through skills or future taxes.
The French government is wasting money on a small possibility of potential rewards later. We educate people and we get professionals. My friend is the case and point. He spent 5 plus years getting a degree in Nuclear something engineering or physics. Got sick of it and now owns and runs a small bar in Korea. Good investment there France. I wonder how it would be for him if he had to pay more for his education. Would he have made those choices?
Why should business have to pay for University. Start their own school.
John Paulson at June 3, 2012 10:45 AM
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