Let's call this what it is: attempted murder.

Part of the cop culture is that cops don't bring in cop killers alive.

Of course, without a trial first, performed by a judge and citizens who aren't forced to have low IQs like cops

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/too-smart-to-be-a-good-cop/#.URUJT49QC9o

there's no way to tell if a citizen is a cop killer or not.

You can be absolutely sure that if the truck they'd shot up had had the proper target in it, he'd have taken another bullet before the event ended, and the official story, corroborated by every cop on the scene, would be that he had pulled first.

Cops - almost all of them - are lawless thugs.

I love the fact that twitter and blogs are making this more and more clear. It warms my heart to read the comments in articles at hundreds of different news sites - every time there's a news report about a cop hitting a utility pole on a clear dry street and the official explanation (i.e. coverup) is something other than "alcohol and excessive speed", the citizenry hammers Big Blue.

People are learning the truth.

Props Amy

Maybe non-criminals could wear, like, a goddamn orange vest or something, so cops can more easily distinguish us from wild animals.

Thanks, Cridster.

But, ←never start a sentence with a conjunctive followed by a comma.

It's like spitting to the side during a handshake (with eye contact). The reader winces at the hillbilly discourtesy. It's like farting in church.



Here's his unredacted manifesto.

I think it's notable that he feels the need to assert his social and emotional integrity by sharing his taste in television shows: He just loves that darling little Piers Morgan with the spiffy tine and cute accent. This is what I was talking about after the Sandy Hook massacre: American think they're participating in events by having just the right response to media.

It's pathetic.

> Unforgivable.

Yes. I heard that the woman in Torrance who was shot in the back was 70 years old. (And that she was asian, but who knows.)

Imagine being a woman trying to make a living delivering newspapers in your eighth decade and getting shot in the back. By cops. Because you were "mistaken" for a 250-pound black muscleman.

I hate the way people sue governments, but I'd love to approach this sister with a law degree and a business card.

(I'll regret saying that later... Be sure and tune in for my climbdown, coming later this weekend.)

Indeed. What are these, cops or scared little schoolgirls? They cannot have had any justification for shooting first.

This reflects on the mentality and training of the entire police force: Crappy training, overly aggressive mentality, and far, far too quick to reach for the gun.

For those not aware of it, be sure to read The Agitator. Unless, of course, you want to keep your blood pressure under control.

Lefties are being flatly dishonest.

"Cops - almost all of them - are lawless thugs."

Here we go again.

Apparently Dad wore his uniform sodomizing you, because your hatred simply isn't borne out by the facts.

I suggest that you actually do not know anyone honest on a police force - possibly because of your own efforts - and so you're just nuts about this.

Don't be confused. I am not saying that the abuse of police powers has not occurred and does not persist. I now point out that generally, police do not, by themselves, seek out trouble because they know it can get them hurt.

I hope that you recognize your own duties with respect to your own defense, that you know that a police officer arriving at any crime scene cannot possibly tell who the aggressor is in the mildest of circumstances, AND that you know that possessing a gun doesn't impart any more magic to you than it does to them.

We draw the police forces from the general population, among whom, we count - you.

Could you qualify? Hmm.

Doubtful. Most of us are too intelligent.

But it's not the stupidity of law enforcement that I object to. It's the Tyranny. Radley Balko

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/the-agitator

blogs about this issue better than anyone I'm aware of, you might peruse his blog if you actually want to know more.

And though I hear there are high functioning, honest LEO's, I'm still confused by the silence of the good ones when the bad ones do harm, whether by killing, lying , conspiring or any other violation of the law.

>>We draw the police forces from the general population, among whom, we count - you.

That is such a crock of shit. We do not "draw the police from the general public" - people self select to become police. So it is not a stretch to suggest that the type of people who elect to become police officers are the same type of people who get off on power and are prone to abusive behavior.

@Radwaste:

> > "Cops - almost all of them - are lawless thugs."

> Here we go again.

Yes, indeed, here we go again.

...in a thread that was initiated by two cops attempting to murder someone.

> Apparently Dad wore his uniform sodomizing you, because your hatred simply isn't borne out by the facts.

I like the way you argue intelligently and refuse to stoop to ad hominem attacks.

The problem I have with itch trigger fingers is that they shot at several dark colored trucks.

Because I guess it's a bad thing to own an import truck? What I've heard is they were looking for a Nissan Titan, dark blue. This is a full sized truck.

The newspapaer ladies were driving a bright blue toyota tacoma, which is a compact truck, and the other people shot were driving a black honda ridgeline, which kinda looks like a midsize truck, but certainly not like a titan...

um. these guys have computers on their cars and could be sent a picture of what they are looking for, I would assume.

And maybe identify it before they send rounds downrange?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16888732-women-shot-by-cops-were-just-delivering-papers?lite

Another more gruesome question is how they can throwdown 30 shots and not kill their targets. In this case, it's a better outcome, but if the badguy HAD been in the little blue truck with a flack jacket on? He probably would have killed those cops too.

You could prolly write books on everything they have done wrong here, but mostly, why didn't the chief take over this op and calm everyone down?

This is an f'd up thing from the getgo... but if he is targeting specific people, seems like it would make sens to hole those people up, and MAKE him localize. Chasing him, gives him the advantage...

Seems like there might be other people that would have been ex- navy or other armed forces that might have relayed tactics, to prepare them for what he might do.

In all cases, human beings can be dangerous to each other, and sometimes there are only bad and less bad outcomes.

Hopefully they can resolve this without losing anyone else.

I kinda liked the way Radwaste argued with you,TJIC. You made a ridiculous statement saying almost all cops are thugs with no information to back it up in the slightest and he called you on it.

The article is about two cops committing what should be a crime. It is not about condemning everyone who takes up law enforcement because at some point in the past a cop hurt your your feelings or actually caused you great trauma. Blame the individuals involved for that.

Nissan Titan - 5038 pounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Titan

Toyota Tacoma - 3550 pounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tacoma

"I suggest that you actually do not know anyone honest on a police force - "

Why do the "good ones" not turn in the bad ones?

Name one time that's happened. Not two, not three. One time.

As a former Municipal Prosecutor, most of the cops I worked with were decent caring individuals. Were they human, most assuredly. Are there "bad" cops? There are certainly documented instances.

The irony is the people engaged in cop bashing here are in effect guilty of the crime they are accusing all cops. Specifically, prejudging them without evidence.

Are the cops that shot the innocent individuals guilty of a crime or negligence. I suspect so, but I don't have all the evidence.

Hey Bob,

Here's just one...Frank Serpico. Pretty famous example with the book and movie.

There is corruption in every human organization of any appreciable size. Every single one. That does not make every single person in those organizations corrupt nor should they be tarred as such by jerkoffs with an agenda.

While I agree that TJIC is slightly - slightly - over the top, I'll also note that he's got a fair amount of cause to be aggrieved.

In other news of non-corrupt cops, so which officers have been arrested for their unannounced gunfire into unrelated cars that bore no resemblance to the BOLO, and any word on the charges against them yet?

CausticF is right in part, sure.

There's corruption in any human organization.

That's true.

Serpico certainly testified about corruption, that's true, as well.

"On May 3, 1971, New York Metro Magazine published an article about Serpico titled "Portrait of an Honest Cop". On May 10, 1971, Serpico testified at the departmental trial of an NYPD lieutenant who was accused of taking bribes from gamblers."

42 years ago.

And that's the latest one you can recall. Granted, the challenge was "one". Which is a low bar, too low, IMO.

But yes, he's well known. And he testified 42 years ago.

That does not make every single person in those organizations corrupt

It makes every person aware of the corruption and is silent complicit with the corruption.

nor should they be tarred as such by jerkoffs with an agenda.

The people who are aware, and/or abetting it via silence if nothing else, or the people who are corrupt?

Can't tell who you're referring to there, but it's still a non-issue.

No matter the level of "Jerkoff", nor their "agenda" matters to the question asked. You're just brushing off the accusation because you don't like the accuser - regardless of the actual situation.

The _issue_ is how corrupt are police forces, and what is being done to minimize/expose/penalize it?

That's the issue. How big a jerkoff TJIC is, or his "agenda" or, me, and mine, is irrelevant to the issue.

And right now, I find it safer to bet TJIC's way than against him. The honest cops don't even seem to get upset about it.

"jittery"?

The article calls the cops "jittery"?

That is a bit of an understatement, along with "mistaken idenity."

The horror these innocent victims must have felt is beyond anything I can imagine.

Are they all lawless thugs?

Well not really no.

But do they know who the lawless thugs are?

Well did you know who the bullies were when you were in high school?

If someone is more bully than law abiding, its pretty hard to hide it from the people you work beside when it comes down to day to day work for a police officer.

The fact is, if you're a good cop that doesn't act against a bad one, you stopped being a good cop when you knew who the bad one was, and did nothing.

As Ghandi said, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Well you have good cops on the various police forces I'm sure, but do they protect the bad ones amongst them, or oust them?

Given the defensive department and city postures every time a cop is busted, or every time their bad or destructive or outright illegal behavior is caught on camera, I think we know the answer to that question.

Hell, cities and states have been trying to criminalize filming the police for years.

You can go onto youtube and in a single search find reams and reams, perhaps hundreds, even thousands of hours of police misconduct caught on camera.

Every one of those misbehaving cops works with other cops, its impossible to imagine in that organization that they don't know who or what they're working with.

And because they as a group have developed a group 'siege' mentality, them against the public, we cannot expect them to enforce standards or change from within.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, how many innocent people have to be harmed before we ban cops?

"42 years ago"

As you said, the request was to name one cop who had spoken out and I named the first one who came to mind. I am sure that if you wanted to research this further, without the "I hate cops" bias, you would find quite a few more.

" You're just brushing off the accusation because you don't like the accuser - regardless of the actual situation."

I don't know Bob, TJIC, or you, Unix-Jedi, so I don't know whether I would like you or not. I am brushing off the accuser because the assumption that almost all cops are thugs and/or corrupt is frankly horseshit. Most are decent honest people doing an extremely difficult and unappreciated job.

That doesn't excuse abuse of power, corruption, or incompetence which should be fought against by both the public and from within the organizations themselves.

"I've said it before and I'll say it again, how many innocent people have to be harmed before we ban cops?"

I am interested in hearing with what or who you would replace cops, lujlp. I am being serious not sarcastic unless this is just a flip remark with no real thought behind it.

I am so thankful it appears they will survive. All the cops involved need prison. You do NOT shoot first and ask questions later.

Most cops are not thugs. Much like calling people Hitler,when you say they are all normal people dismiss the rest of your comments outright.

Causticf - luj was just doing one of those analogies thingies - I think. I've read his stuff for a few years now. Actually, this is the first time I read one of his with no spelling errors. Way to go lujlp.

one, it was a rip on people who want to ban guns.

Two, the way I see it there are three types of cops.

the smallest group are the honest hard working ones who will turn the other cops in for illegal behavior. The tend to quit or get transfered around or get shot because backup always takes longer to reach them.

the second group is slightly larger than the good cops, they are the thugs and assholes and the ones committing acts worthy of prison time

The largest group, I'd say 80 to 90 percent are sniviling cowards who at the very least look the other way, or at worst agree to cover up for the assholes

I've started using chrome. Built in spell check.

Problem is if I glance up while I'm typing all the red throws off my train of thought as I'm compelled to fix the mistake. Sometime lose my train of thought and wind up shooting off on a tenuously related tangent

Second problem is my brain doesnt 'see' individual words, I see the whole thought as one thing so when I misspell small words with homophones, or words with a small one or two letter difference I dont always choose the right one when correcting spelling mistakes

Also wind up talking about three times as long to write them

It is a pretty short hop from kicking in the doors of the wrong house to an open kill zone against dar colored pickups on the street.

When I was in the Army we had certain people who had a kind of a jack booted thug attitude. A lot of them became cops when they got out of the military.

It isn't everyone, but the drug war has certainly encouraged a storm trooper mentaility, and I can see where if the leadership in a police department was infected, it would roll on down the chain of command.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone with a concealed carry permit had behaved this recklessly? And the libs think only the police should have guns. sheesh.

Yo.




> "Due" for "do," etc.

So it's not just me? Cool. And weird... Never had that problem until I needed prescription lenses, and back in the day I was little mister Eagle Eye.

> we had certain people who had a kind of a
> jack booted thug attitude.

Here's the thing: We need a certain number of those people in every high school class.

…Not complete assholes, but people who can be counted on to take control of the room by whatever means necessary when the shit hits the fan.

I'm not that personality. But I've lived long enough to be grateful for those who have it, especially since I, personally, in two thousan' muthafuckin' thirteen, can earn a living and pay both a mortgage and taxes without selling drugs or the flesh of young women.

I like cops. I haven't had a problem with them since the Carter administration. I like the way they look me in the eye when I talk to them. I like the way they do that because

THEY ARE BEING JUDGMENTAL.

Anyway, the problem is distinguishing those who take control when necessary from those who take control to express their rage at their stepfathers (etc).

Mr. Dorner may well be such an edge case. I haven't yet read anything about the generation that brought him here to know fer shure.

There are decent cops.

Regina Tasca: A more recent example of a decent cop who didn't tolerate corruption and brutality:

http://www.copblock.org/21522/the-time-has-come-to-decide-peace-or-police/

I agree with Crid. I don't always say that.

Tweet: Regarding my earlier comment, Filipinas are kind of an edge case as "Asians," right? Help me out, because I honestly don't know enough about their heritage to say for sure except to say that

THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE SHOT IN THE BACK BY COPS IN THE UNITED STATES WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING DELIVERING GODDAM NEWSPAPERS WITH THEIR DAUGHTERS IN A CHEAP-ASS PICK UP TRUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT IN THEIR EIGHTH DECADE OF LIFE.

The commenters on this blog should pool funds to send that sister some flowers in her hospital bed.

Or something. Maybe resolve to pay the taxes for the gi-motherfucking-normous settlement we hope this woman extracts from that town in a lawsuit.

> I don't always say that.

You always should.



It saves time.

"You always should."

And now we're back to disagreeing...except on the flower thing

"I like the way you argue intelligently and refuse to stoop to ad hominem attacks."

I like the way you totally abandon supporting your accusation.

Here you go, a direct request: prove your assertion.

And luj, just what justification do you have to call cops "sniveling cowards"?

Do YOU rush out to expose yourself to gunfire for $50K per year? Have you ever been shot at? How about hit?

Do you also form opinions about military service whilst sitting in the dark eating popcorn? That's what your statements suggest.

-----

I'm really not surprised at this. There's no reason for me to think you'd be any more immune to the constant bombardment of the media, as they show Americans they aren't worth a shit, than anyone else.

One, I was in the military, two my basis for calling the cowards is their cowardly actions.

just a couple of days ago SEVEN cops opened fire without warning and turned a street into a temporary war zone.

You'll note not a one of them have been arrested or charged.

That is why I call them cowards