Actually, this lets me revive one of the key points against Jeff Guinn's assertion that "100% of bags are screened" protects the airplane.

You may ship ammunition by air.

Tracking whose it is, in the case where the shipper either doesn't care who knows who he is or who can leave the country, is moot. A sniffer smells ammunition, the package is labeled correctly to the naked eye and has the right shipping labels on it.

In the flow with the other ten thousand packages to go on a 737, what kind of screening can stop a package, really?

It's very like taking a picture of the woods, and demanding that the black widow spider in the picture be found. Each hour.

That, btw, is not an Appeal to Consequences fallacy demanding that screening stop. It's an example of the hole in aircraft access that would let a bomb be planted.

If there was really an enemy who would do that.

1,000 to 1 odds that UPS and Fedex are held to standards insanely higher than the "we catch almost nothing" government run TSA.

Radwaste, I believe you are wrong. You cannot ship ammunition by air. You must ship it by ground.
You can travel by plane, with up to 11 pounds of ammo for personal use in your checked baggage, which must be cleared through the TSA, and a special card put in your luggage. Your guns must be in a locked box, and your ammo must be separate from the locked container that your guns are in.

11 pounds of ammo would be enough for me to shoot one 270 shot match. If I was flying out somewhere for more than one match, I would have to send my ammo ahead of time either by UPS or Fex Ex ground. The postal system does not allow you to ship ammo at all.

I would have to send my ammo ahead of time either by UPS or Fex Ex ground. The postal system does not allow you to ship ammo at all. -- Isab at March 25, 2013 5:30 AM

Isab,

Correct about USPS.

But the ORM-D label was replaced by the diamond-Y label for air and the plain diamond for ground.

Strange. I'll look it up again for you, but air shipping IS an option for at least two of the vendors I have personally done business with.
It may be that these are not permitted on passenger aircraft, in which case I'll say that, but I have to get back to work.

The problem with making Fedex and UPS adjuncts to the DEA is that there are drugs that are non-narcotic, prescription not required that can be destroyed by intense X-Raying.

An example is insulin. The TSA monkeys did this. Do you think the DEA would be any better?

If you've ever read "Life and death in Shanghai" by Nien Cheng, the similarities happening b/w maoist China 50 years ago and obiist US now is disheartening. Obviously not to that extent (yet?), but it's going...

Well, this ought to shut down those mail-order pharmacy companies that insurers are insisting that we fill our prescriptions with.

If they open my medication, I'LL sue them.

Dave:

Bingo!

http://theblacksphere.net/2013/03/dallas-solves-trespassing-illegal-issue/

Oh, you won't deal with the issue of illegal aliens all over the place.. OK, we'll just... seize cars and charge large amounts to get them back, and... what's that? We've got less illegals driving, but without any big legal battles? Gee. Who'dathunkit.

"How are we gonna stop these pharmacies?"

"Let's go after UPS and FedEx, and they'll stop shipping their crap!"

"Works for me."

TJIC:

1,000 to 1 odds that UPS and Fedex are held to standards insanely higher than the "we catch almost nothing" government run TSA.

Well, duh. They're hiring people with skills, education, training. We expect more from them.

Back in the '90's I was on a jury for a drug trial where FedEx had seen a suspicious package, called the cops, and the package was found to contain cocaine (by a drug dog and later analysis). The cops conducted a sting where they dressed up as FedEx and delivered the package. The defendant was the recipient of the package, and he ended up being convicted. Needless to say, courier companies have been on the look out for suspicious packages for a long time. However, asking them to consider any package from an online pharmacy to be suspicious for criminal activity is ridiculous.

Where does this end? What about a private letter that has offensive, sexist, racist language? Might not a worker be offended if he or she knew what was in that envelope?

KateC:

Shh! We've got a couple more years before that's unveiled!

From J&G Sales: "There are some limited methods by which we can ship ammo to AK or HI. For smaller amounts we can ship it via FedEx air service. The shipping is quite a bit since ammo is heavy, and there is a $30.00 hazardous material fee added per package."

Some dealers do not ship to HI or AK, but there you go: ammunition can be shipped by air.

And, if you look at the FedEx site itself, you get this:

Dangerous Goods
Accessible Dangerous Goods.
Certain dangerous goods must be accessible during transit. You can ship these accessible dangerous goods using FedEx First Overnight, FedEx Priority Overnight, FedEx First Overnight Freight, FedEx 1Day Freight, FedEx International First (U.S. inbound), FedEx International Priority, FedEx International Economy (except to Puerto Rico), FedEx International Priority Freight, FedEx International Economy Freight (except to Puerto Rico), FedEx International Premium and FedEx International Express Freight services.
Class 1.4 - Explosives
Class 2.1 - Flammable gas
Class 2.2 - Non-flammable gas with a “cargo aircraft only” label
Class 3 - Flammable liquid
Class 4 - Flammable solid, spontaneously combustible, dangerous when wet
Class 5 - Oxidizer and organic peroxide
Class 8 - Corrosive material

Inaccessible Dangerous Goods.
You can ship the following dangerous goods
classifications via most FedEx Express services.
Class 2.2 - Non-flammable gas without a “cargo aircraft only” label
Class 6.1 - Toxic
Class 6.2 - Infectious substances
Class 7 - Radioactive materials
Class 9 - Miscellaneous dangerous goods

-----

So, there you go. FedEx will deliver your WMDs by air, as they determine necessary. Note the presence of the "must be accessible" and "cargo aircraft only" statements.

You cannot ship ammunition by air. You must ship it by ground.

You can travel by plane, with up to 11 pounds of ammo for personal use in your checked baggage

Make up your mind

FedEx is free to set their own policies on their own planes. (for now) They have made air shipment so expensive that it would be prohibitive. They have probably deliberately made it very expensive so that it is discouraged, because, I suspect anything hazmat is hand inspected.

Lujip. When you check your bags at the airport, and get on the same plane your bags are on, you are by definition, not "shipping" them. You maintain constructive ownership, and control. Ammo is allowed in checked baggage by most airlines on domestic routes, but you will get your bags hand inspected by the TSA.

What is not allowed, is you sending anything through the mails or the other commercial shipping services, that would be hazmat, which could end up on a passenger carrying commercial flight.
There was an incident in Florida several years ago where they believe a passenger flight was brought down due to some oxygen generators in the cargo hold.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592#section_4

The FAA got extremely touchy about hazmat on passenger planes after that.

As I said before, FedEx is free to set what rules they want on their cargo planes, and anyone who wants to pay triple or more the value of the ammo to jump through their hoops required to air ship it, is welcome to do so.

And the end result: yes, ammunition may be shipped by air.

There you go.

"11 pounds of ammo would be enough for me to shoot one 270 shot match."

11 pounds of ammo in checked baggage... hmm. What does 4 boxes of shotgun shells look like on the x-ray machine, how carefully is it watched, and is this scanner watched by the same group that loses luggage?

Radwaste, when I fly with guns and ammo, I always take either non stops or routes where I don't change planes. I know there are certain airports, where you never want to change planes if you have anything valuable in your checked baggage. Smart people, don't check valuable items, but in the case of guns and ammo, you must check them.

I suspect that if they are watching the scanner, and four boxes of shotgun shells go through (looks somewhat like an IED I am sure) they call the TSA, open the unlocked bag, and check for the TSA card on top of the ammo. If they don't find one, I would not want to be you. You have violated an airline regulation (and not a law) but the admin hassle is what I try to avoid.