While I agree with you (as usual), I'd let this remark go without comment. What the heck.

Well, a Christian would say that God had a different plan for those who were killed or maimed. To me, it's all a matter of what name do we want to give to fate. The sentiment expressed by Ms. Clark is the main theme of Earnest Gann's "Fate Is the Hunter", in which Gann speculates about why it is that he lived when so many of his friends died. I've also heard A.J. Foyt discuss that same theme, in his own way. Is it all just random chance, or do subconscious levels of processing in our brains sometimes protect us in ways that we don't realize? Did Ms. Clark subconsciously notice a suspicious person near the finish line, and decide, without being consciously aware of it, to run on the other side of the road?

We all know that, at a subatomic level, quantum processes are probabilistic in nature. How does that translate to the macro level, if at all? Is there some way of influencing it, or at least predicting it? What is the nature of chance, really? These are questions that I think humans have been asking since the first human language was invented. Why did the tiger that attacked the hunting party kill Og but leave Ugg alone? It's no wonder that mysticism gets attached to the subject.

I agree with Nitt here, and would extend that imperitive to "let this remark go" to those who want to describe their favorite conspiracy theory about the bombing, or start telling bombing jokes, as the try to deal with this.

The human brain has a finite number of neural connections, there are some things we can't process, including "nothing", "infinity", "before the beginning", and the "random" event that has dramatic consequences. We think out loud trying to explain things we don't understand.

Did angel girl hurt your feelings? OK, but why is it nowadays a federal case whenever person A says something that makes person B uncomfortable. Happens all the time.

By the way, not all of us who are Christians believe God controls or micromanages everything.

Cousin Dave, excellent comments, as usual.

Regarding Amy's question, I share her disdain for the contempt behind comments like "Angels protected my family," implying that the angels just didn't care about the runner who had his legs blown off. (Gruesome picture now circulating on Facebook.)

One of the things that I had recently seen on Facebook was this supposedly uplifting image, captioned with a dialog between a man and God. The man complainingly asks why all the inconvenient things happened to him that day. God, of course, has an explanation for all of it, but it makes God seem like a helpless incompetent who would cause a person's car to break down to avoid a drunk driver, rather than simply removing the drunk driver, or preventing him from hurting anyone.

And it goes like this (nothing follows):

http://digitalcatharsis.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/god-can-i-ask-you-a-question/

Me: God, can I ask You a question?
God: Sure
Me: Promise You won’t get mad … … … … …
God: I promise
Me: Why did You let so much stuff happen to me today?
God: What do u mean?
Me: Well, I woke up late
God: Yes
Me: My car took forever to start
God: Okay
Me: at lunch they made my sandwich wrong & I had to wait
God: Huummm
Me: On the way home, my phone went DEAD, just as I picked up a call
God: All right
Me: And on top of it all off, when I got home ~I just want to soak my feet in my new foot massager & relax. BUT it wouldn’t work!!! Nothing went right today! Why did You do that?
God: Let me see, the death angel was at your bed this morning & I had to send one of My Angels to battle him for your life. I let you sleep through that
Me (humbled): OH
GOD: I didn’t let your car start because there was a drunk driver on your route that would have hit you if you were on the road.
Me: (ashamed)
God: The first person who made your sandwich today was sick & I didn’t want you to catch what they have, I knew you couldn’t afford to miss work.
Me (embarrassed):Okay
God: Your phone went dead bcuz the person that was calling was going to give false witness about what you said on that call, I didn’t even let you talk to them so you would be covered.
Me (softly): I see God
God: Oh and that foot massager, it had a shortage that was going to throw out all of the power in your house tonight. I didn’t think you wanted to be in the dark.
Me: I’m Sorry God
God: Don’t be sorry, just learn to Trust Me…. in All things , the Good & the bad.
Me: I will trust You.
God: And don’t doubt that My plan for your day is Always Better than your plan.
Me: I won’t God. And let me just tell you God, Thank You for Everything today.
God: You’re welcome child. It was just another day being your God and I Love looking after My Children.

I just wish all Americans would sit down for an hour and think about all the innocents who attend weddings or are out shopping and get hit by a drone strike simply because they happen to be near a guy we want killed.

I think we're thinking about this all wrong, and putting too much emphasis on it all.

What happened, just...happened. Until we get a real explanation, it's pointless to speculate. And these people who had "angels" protecting them and whatnot, well, yeah, it had to be "luck", didn't it? I mean, so what? Some people got hurt, some didn't. If the ones who didn't get hurt want to think their "guardian angel protected" them, where's the harm? And those who were "protected", well, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? I don't think anybody's being "punished" or "not worthy" of the angel said "Fuck you" to 'em. Maybe there aren't enough angels to go around? They gotta choose between someone whose situation is a little more dire? Maybe the "guardian angel" who was supposed to be with that little boy thought "well, he's just watching a marathon, and this little ol' lady whose going through chemo right now needs a little comfort" and went to see her? Who knows? F.I.S.H. (Fuck It, Shit Happens) It just does. Randomness has always existed, and always will. Some people are luckier than others. Always have been, always will. And sometimes that luck shifts. And what is "luck" anyway? More randomness, near as I can tell.

I think we should just let 'em be. Just because some got lucky and others didn't, doesn't mean we have to get into a pissing contest over who's more "worthy" to have a "guardian angel" than someone else. I mean, I kinda think I have one, having walked away from 2 horrific car crashes within 24 hours. But that was a long time ago, and I've got my "guardian angel" tattooed on my shoulder. Just my dumb luck. That's all.

Sorry, wereN'T "protected", OR the angel said, and the little ol' lady WHO'S going...

Ah, you knew what I meant.

Christ, Amy, you are crazy-bitter.

Well, as Dean Winchester once said, Angels are dicks.

@Crid: I don't think she is. I pick on Amy for her lack of empathy re kids and pets, but I'll back her up on this one.

It is annoying as hell for religious idiots to attribute random happenings to their personal hotline to god. In cases like this, it sounds as though they consider themselves vastly superior to those who were not so lucky.

"My personal guardian angel saved me" has the implication: "his didn't, he must be a bad person".

“You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

“One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

> "Fuck you, you're not worth saving."

"...people attribute their not getting hit to some mystical force -- which suggests that the angel thought about all those people who were hit and killed, 'Fuck you, you're not worth saving.'"

Atheists seem to know more about the capabilities of God and angels than anyone else I know.

I have a bunch of questions.

If there were angels, how many people could an angel help at one time? Would [do] they have unlimited ability to save people?

If an angel saved someone, how would that suggest that he/she/it was thinking, "Fuck you, you're not worth saving" about everyone else?

Would the existence of angels preclude the existence of random chance?

I watched videos that showed who I thought were wonderful people rushing to help victims within seconds after the first explosion. I was so impressed. If I'm ever in a similar situation I hope I can be like them.

I'm wondering what an atheist thinks. Were those seemingly wonderful rescuers who rushed in to help victims thinking, "Fuck you, you're not worth saving" about the other victims they didn't help?

If a paramedic rushed in and saved one victim while three others died, would that be a good argument against the existence of paramedics?

If there were angels, and 10 of them were at the Boston Marathon and saved 100 people, but couldn't save 150, would that suggest that they didn't care about the 150 they couldn't save? It seems to me that it would suggest that most believers and atheists were mistaken about the abilities of angels. It wouldn't say anything about whether or not they exist.

If someone publicly praises the rescuer who saved her, would that be "hurtful" or contemptuous to the loved ones of someone the rescuer didn't save? Should we "disdain" the one who was saved for extolling the one she believes saved her?

"If there were angels, and 10 of them were at the Boston Marathon and saved 100 people, but couldn't save 150, would that suggest that they didn't care about the 150 they couldn't save?"

In your logic of thinking, the angels work for the U.S. government not God. Please remember our country is in deficit and we cannot afford additional payroll.

If the person behind this bombing did it because his God (whatever hell that is) told him so, the angels you mentioned work for the Satan.

We will be able to handle this tragedy a lot more efficiently if there are less idiots like you and other people thanking God or angels.

"Would the existence of angels preclude the existence of random chance?"

This doesn't mean what you think it does, and it's representative of an error many people make about life in general, and "miracles" on occasion.

This was not "random chance". The victims are all selected, from the pool of attendees who had the opportunity to be at this marathon. The bombing was a deliberate act.

Apparent complexity is only present if the nature of the event is discarded. The bomb did not kill "random" anyone. It killed people in unpredictable ways, but ONLY those from the set of attendees.

There is a HUGE difference between "random" and "unpredictable". That this is a complete mystery to many fuels the allegation of "angels" and the argument that ensues.

That the victims might have been someone else, or a larger or lesser number, are all probabilities with a high degree of confidence. Personal incredulity - the "why me?!" - has no bearing on the event.

This is completely obscured by the consequences.

During this event, several people can be found to have gastric emergencies. The lesser drama makes the exact same measurement of probability unrewarding, so it goes unremarked.

> We will be able to handle this tragedy a lot
> more efficiently if there are less idiots like
> you and other people thanking God or angels.

How?

Specifically. How?

Have you made study of the "efficient" handling of tragedies like this?

Amy's larger point is correct: A supernatural being which is omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent would not allow human suffering.

But try to understand the scale of the horror on that street. Imagine being in the presence of decent strangers, horribly maimed, whose suffering you can't diminish. It's never happened to me, but I'd bet being present for something like that would crowd my emotions and logic into the coldest corners of my sanity.

Some people who were there believe in God, and have the decency to recognize that they've been relatively fortunate.

In this next day of their lives, are they to be mocked by putting words in their mouths about those whose suffering they witnessed, words like "Asshole!" and "Fuck you!"?

Really?

Is that your genuine understanding of how human hearts work?

I think this is the flip side of gcotharn's comments on the day of Sandy Hook.

This may not be the right context for your fight, and it certainly isn't the best hour.

(PS- Apparently some guests from Sandy Hook were watching the marathon as guests of honor.)

Seriously, how good a night of sleep do you think those people had last night?

So, I'm on the fence here. I can understand the comment, "It feels like I had an angel watching over me," but I also understand where Amy's coming from.

To me, the difference is between the "I feel" and "there was." You know, maybe there was. Maybe you were suddenly inspired to go to the john at the right moment so that some tax fraud crazy cat lady (or abusive parent, or whatever) would get her comeuppance, or so you could be driving the car that got hit but blocked the small child from being run over by a drunk driver. Regardless, if you managed to leave unscathed, I can seriously understand feeling like you had some sort of divine protection.

But... saying "it was" really does make it look like you're holding yourself well above those who didn't.

That said, given this being as bad as it was, I can also forgive some careless verbiage for people who are probably in some state of shock. Heaven forbid I'm ever in such a situation, and emerge going, "G-d granted my prayers!" and insulted the family of somebody who didn't make it out. I'd like to think I'm all careful with other people's feelings all the time, but I'm fallible, and I'd probably be so jacked up on emotions that I'd say something stupid.

When you think about it, sudden death, and misfortune have pretty much been the norm throughout history.

My father should have been killed about six times in World War II, but by chance, good fortune, or sheer dumb luck, survived every one of a chain of horrendous events (much worse than the terrorist attack in Boston) that killed hundreds of his fellow soldiers, some of them, right next to him.

I don't think he ever figured out why he was spared, and so many fine men were killed, but he never blamed or credited God, one way or the other.

You know what religion does for a lot of people?

It lets them shake their head, and walk away, thankful that it wasn't them that day, but with a humility and understanding that there really isn't much we have control over in this world.

This admission, that you are not the master of the Universe, you believed yourself to be when you were ten, allows you to move on with your life, without getting stuck in a do loop, navel gazing and obsessing over the injustice of it all.

Parsing every utterance for some deep meaning, and extracting a reason to be offended , is a symptom of a safe, secure, and extremely spoiled world view.

"Have you made study of the "efficient" handling of tragedies like this?"

Regardless who committed this bombing, we will handle this tragedy a lot more efficiently if we remembered this simple truth.

The Earth will still go around the Sun even if we killed each other to the extinction. None, zero, will miss us including the God, which created the Universe. The Universe simply doesn't give a shit.

Some runners got hurt and some runners did not get hurt. That is how cookie crumbled in the uncaring Universe. By thanking angels saving their asses to a news reporter right in front of the runner, who just lost his legs or a grieving father, who just lost his only daughter is equivalent to "Fuck you, you're not worth saving."

And Amy, accordingly, reminded them to watch their manners.

Non-responsive.

> "Fuck you, you're not worth saving."

Again the uncredentialed, unsupported prattle about "efficiency," and again with the bogus quotation marks... You're composing a despicable fantasy of the interior life of a distant person in a context of profound suffering, and presenting your fantasy as a recording.

I think the ugliness you offer has a different source.

> This admission, that you are not the master
> of the Universe…

Exactly. These people were humble. These obscene-worded presumptions about them are not.

I think the Angel thought she was an asshole for thinking that way and arranged for her remark to be public to draw scorn as a punishment. Not a good strategy, since it probably reinforces the paradigm among believers.

I don't know - I guess we could ask the injured folks if they're as offended by this as some folks are. (Yes, I know - we can't ask the dead, so just stop right now...)

It's not like she's the Pope striking dogma, some imam declaring the unworthiness of "The Joooooooze" or one of those asshole Westboro folks picketing military funerals. Umm, she's a life coach who camethisclose to buying the farm.

This actually reminds me of the time Rachel Lucas had a relative injured in an accident and had the nerve, the gall, the audacity to say something along the the lines of "I can kinda appreciate the old adage about atheists and foxholes". Jesus F'ing Christ on a pogo stick! The Atheist Outrage Network(tm) would've put CAIR to shame. (Best part was them calling Rachel a religious nut.)

Whatever.

You can understand people's relief at not being among the hurt in Boston, but once again, people attribute their not getting hit to some mystical force

No one ever accused religious people of using reason.

No one ever accused religious people of using reason.

Posted by: JD at April 16, 2013 6:43 PM

Just out of curiosity JD, how do you think this woman using reason would have improved, helped or prevented the situation in Boston in any way?

This was an emotional reaction by a traumatized individual, and should be taken with the same understanding that we reserve for people in other stressful terrible situations.

Who's Rachel Lucas? Is she friends with that Alex guy?

I would say that being that close to violent, perhaps history-making death (we shall see!) but surviving it would be pretty fuckin' mystical.

PS- Deepluv for the expression "camethisclose."

PS- Some of my favorte people are named John C.

If a paramedic rushed in and saved one victim while three others died, would that be a good argument against the existence of paramedics? -- Ken R at April 16, 2013 12:02 PM

No, that would argue that there was a lack of people trained in first aid and emergency medical care and there was a mass casualty triage expert on scene.

There are essentially four levels in triage:

1. Green: the victim has superficial wounds and can wait hours or self treat.
2. Yellow: the victim has taken damage that is not imminently life threatening, but will need attendance by trained medical professionals.
3. Red: the victim has taken damage that is imminently life threatening, needs immediate attendance by trained medical professionals.
4. Black: the victim has taken damage that is imminently life threatening and short of a full surgical team will die anyway.

Since the majority of the damage was to the lower bodies, that means most of them would be in the Red or Yellow groups. Then the mass casualty expert assigns full EMTs/Paramedics to the Red cases, then assigns the rest of his teams downward.

If the mass casualty experts is lacking in trained people he will decide whether to work on red cases, or designate them more as black.

Considering that area of Boston has three major hospitals, not to mention any number of clinics. And essentially every EMT, in the area, was on duty just to deal with the fallout from the marathoners, the response was overwhelmingly positive.

Now if the same attack happened at the opening of a state fair, or other major event where there isn't expected to be much strenuous activity I'm sure the results would have been different.

But I carry a bullet/penetrating injury first aid kit. Are you prepared?

I understand what you are saying, Amy, but I've said something similiar.

A minister pointed out how selfish and offensive it was.

I guess we were just lucky when my husband went to law school, but I was really struck by how fortunate we were. I have an autoimmune problem and I have been sick on and off throughout my life. However, while he was in school, I stayed healthy even though I worked three jobs to put him through.

Whenever, we needed anything, it seemed to fall at our feet. For instance, my husband said that we could make it if we just had a bigger apartment and didn't pay rent. My husband came home at noon the next day with good news. He had been offered a security position. If he would walk around the apartment building three times per day and pick up any trash he saw, we would get an apartment twice the size and free rent.

We never complained. We never asked for anything, but people just seemed to sense when our coffers were bare and would insist on inviting us to dinner or offer some such help.

I do not believe that God controls everything, otherwise, there would be no free will. I do believe that good can happen out of all circumstances, even bad ones. People want to support people that are doing their best or trying to do good for the well.

Thanks for pointing that out Jim P. Triage in it's original form is not well understood by people, and was also ruthless as hell. It was designed to turn around the maximum number of casualties to the front lines in WWI. I would break it down into the the traditional three categories

1. Not going to die or be incapacitated right now, can wait even if they're in pain.

2. Going to die or be unable to go back into the front line without immediate surgery, but there's a good chance of saving them.

3. Almost no chance, stick them in the corner and if we run out of the others we'll have a look and see if they're still alive.

The usual prioritization of work from a military point of view is group 2, then 1, then 3. Which maximises available personnel.

But in practice, outside of war, this is rarely followed. EMTs, yes, will prioritize group 2 over 3. Hospital emergency rooms tend to put group 3 first unless they're really pressed. But group 1 is almost always last. They don't always distribute downwards.

I suppose my point is triage means different things to different organisations. Loss of limb would automatically qualify you for a black tag in a military situation I suspect, because, what good are you now? In a civil situation such as this you're trying to decide how many lives you can save, and that changes the rules.

I've used this expression more than once as more of an auto-response to a situation beyond my control. The feelings that I was and still do convey when I say it (the choice of my words are probably more indicative of my culture of origin and being raised catholic) is gratitude and humitity. It in no way crosses my mind that I've judged myself more worthy than someone else. It's more like "thank God that wasn't me" and again, I've said that too. I'm neither a religious individual nor an athiest. I kinda believe whatever gets you through the day and helps you keep sane and emotionally sober is a huge plus to the rest of your fellow humans!

I went into labor two weeks early. My water broke without any contractions. This is a mandatory stay visit to the hospital. Turns out my water breaking so early was a blessing. The umbilic cord was wrapped around my daughters neck - with every very large contraction if not in the corrected position - cut off all blood and oxygen to my daughter. Had I had the contractions only, I would have been sent home and there was a good possibility Iay not be celebrating one of the most beautiful things I've ever done.

I don't know when, why or how every single thing fell into place as it was suppose to (the right doctor on call, the right staff, my husband being home, no traffic, not a lot of births going on, etc etc etc) but it did - and I am grateful! I've used the ol "angels were watching out for us..." more than once. I can tell you and promise you in know way was it meant to convey the message that I was more deserving than anyone else.

In fact, quite the opposite. I feel ridiculously fortunate. Especially for modern medicine and awesome doctors!!!!

See? Like that.

Listen, when religion is about hating people, you'll only need moderate sensitivity to know. A moderate expression like this just shouldn't be so threatening as to require, when thousands of miles away from a violent crisis, words of critique like "Asshole!" and "Fuck you."

This self-absorbed blather is spouted by a true narcissist. As a resident of metro-Boston, this visitor's pronouncement is very annoying. Please go home; this isn't your spotlight.

I like people from Boston. Generally speaking, they're tough-asses.

FEEEEEEBBBSSS!!! Congratulations!! Glad all is well. How big was she?? What's her name?? You can email me with deets if ya want!

Later. Once you've had a good sleep.

WoooHOOOOO!

o.O

Flynne!

Thank you! :-). I'm searching for that email of yours. Just under 6 lbs and two weeks early. Other than a few close calls and being a Lil peanut - she is super healthy!

If you still have my email addy - shoot me over something and I'll respond. Been a while!

Feebie: Congratulations! I'm glad everything went well despite the complications.

Just out of curiosity JD, how do you think this woman using reason would have improved, helped or prevented the situation in Boston in any way?

This was an emotional reaction by a traumatized individual, and should be taken with the same understanding that we reserve for people in other stressful terrible situations.

Isab, religious people believe that angels (or God or Jesus or the Virgin Mary) single them out for attention all the time, not just in instances like this. Religious people will pray that they win a Grammy or a football game, as if God (if such a higher power exists) is going to pick one singer or one team over another.

jD, I am aware of that, having spent significant time in Texas.

However,what you describe is more true of the Anabaptist sects of Christianity, than the more orthodox branches.

Tim Tebow really gets under your skin doesn't he?

When I am in a captive audience situation, I have occasionally called them on it, but I don't find religious utterances a social faux pas like repeatedly using the N word or shouting down public speakers whose views you disagree with.

And is clearly not at the level of marching into a Japanese house with your shoes on.

There is a point, when policing the behavior of other adults, that you cross into rudeness yourself, and this is something I try to avoid.

As long as they are not trying to convert you, why do you care?

I am no more offended by a Christian saying "Praise The Lord"
than I am by Iraqi Muslims working for my husband in Baghdad saying "Inshallah ". (When Allah wills it) when he asked when something was going to be done.

"Isab, religious people believe that angels (or God or Jesus or the Virgin Mary) single them out for attention all the time, not just in instances like this. Religious people will pray that they win a Grammy or a football game, as if God (if such a higher power exists) is going to pick one singer or one team over another. "

At least based on what I was taught, this is a mischaracterization. Maybe other groups teach differently, or maybe the whole concept is different these days. But from what I learned, one of the overarching messages of Christianity is "you ain't nothin' special", and that no person has any moral standing to expect God to grant them special favors. One prays to God for guidance and understanding, not presents.

I've been to a lot of auto races, and the invocation at nearly all of them asks God for one thing: a safe race. Given the nature of the sport, if you're going to make wishes, that's a reasonable thing to wish for. When Jeff Gordon was younger, he used to thank God for letting him win races. He caught a lot of grief for it and eventually he learned not to say that. (Whether or not he still thinks it is a matter that I won't explore.)

Just to shock you into thinking:

Not every angel is a Christian.

I don't know how anyone goes through a close call like that without a sense of not just relief, but overpowering gratitude.

No, I don't believe there is a conscious entity to thank, either. Still, when incredibly good stuff happens to me I sometimes say "Thank the universe!" It's an acknowledgement that the universe does NOT revolve around me, and that I am damned happy when, with or without my efforts, things work out my way. Cool! I may have made it more likely, but I sure don't earn good luck by my merits alone, and I know things could have gone otherwise. To me this doesn't imply the universe has consciousness, but is instead humble and realistic thinking about my own place within it. And I'm not even talking about life-saving good fortune.

If luck spares your life, I think you'd be inhuman not to wonder why, if some higher power didn't intervene. Doesn't the book Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters theorize that such thinking was evolutionarily beneficial? But yes, the problem with it is the opposite must then also be true. If conscious, benevolent forces spare lives, then conscious forces of evil must be behind death and pain, either randomly dealing out cruelty or deliberately punishing people. That kind of thinking will ultimately deliver you straight into religion's prison, possibly even drive you mad. And it is hurtful and disrespectful to the less fortunate, just as you say.

So I try to stop with plain old gratitude, even toward an unthinking universe. Still, can you really blame people for coming up with angels or other forces to thank instead, particularly when they're freshly traumatized? Don't you think their impulse toward gratitude is actually healthy, and just needs a little redirection? I believe both the error and correction are subtler than you think.

Radwaste: "Just to shock you into thinking: Not every angel is a Christian."

Of course not. Satan is an angel.

So you do believe in the existence of angels? (Since your statement "Not all angels are Christian" seems to assume the existence of angels)

Amy Alkon: "I think people don't realize how hurtful it is... to hear 'God' or 'the angels' protected my family."

a_random_guy: "It is annoying as hell for religious idiots to attribute random happenings to their personal hotline to god."

Patrick: "Regarding Amy's question, I share her disdain..."

It perplexes me that someone who just days ago was all defensive on behalf of Roger, who got kicked out of an emergency room after throwing a loud hissy fit at his husband Allen's bedside, would then get all offended by a woman who said an angel protected her minutes after she came this||close to being torn apart in a bloody horrific terrorist attack.

DS: "...can you really blame people for coming up with angels or other forces to thank... Don't you think their impulse toward gratitude is actually healthy, and just needs a little redirection? I believe both the error and correction are subtler than you think."

Yes, all we need are self-perceived superior, wiser people with the maturity and sensitivity to recognize the subtle error of another and gently, compassionately administer a little subtle correction and redirection.

What a bunch of self righteous, judgmental, holier-than-thou, condescending bullshit. How about we just be happy angel lady is OK?

JJC: "Did angel girl hurt your feelings?... Happens all the time."

Yep. Someone who finds a terrorist attack survivor's statement that an angel protected her to be "hurtful" or offensive needs therapy, especially someone who doesn't even believe angels exist.

Ken R:

My statement is merely to make someone think, as was stated.

You didn't.

Think of an alternative. Suppose I said, "Angels are all conservative Republicans."

Religious people are pantingly eager to ascribe superhuman, but human nonetheless, qualities to imagined beings which presence has never been demonstrated, yet logically cannot have the same interests as ordinary people.
Humanoid, with wings. Really?

A "Just So" story, angels always intervene in predictable ways.

Why do you think "Satan" exists? Or that an "evil" entity must ALSO be molded from Christian fantasies?

I AM happy that she's okay. I'd be happy, too.

I never said I was wiser than her. I don't know her. I do think she's mistaken in thanking angels, and that you seem to have some mistaken ideas about angels. And you have the right to think I'm an asshole for thinking that.

Frankly, I thought Amy was being too hard on the people. I don't believe they're as wrong as she thinks, and yes, they deserve compassion, not disdain. I do believe it must hurt bitterly when someone whose loved one did NOT escape death or horrible injury hears people proclaiming that god or the angels spared their own. But hey, you can disagree with me. I certainly wouldn't go up to a victim and start correcting them, in case that's not clear. So I don't see why you're so bent out of shape.

"I do think she's mistaken in thanking angels, and that you seem to have some mistaken ideas about angels."

{Look of wonder}

Mistaken ideas about angels?

The definitive reference is... what?

Humans have built a gadget to find the Higgs boson, are detecting currents under the surface of the Sun and exoplanets light-years away. They defined the "second" as 9192631770 oscillations between the hyperfine ground states of the Cs-133 atom decades ago, having found Cesium, found it had isotopes, found it had hyperfine ground states, determined it was better than other materials with similar properties, and examined it with other devices capable of detecting variation of less than 1 in tens of billions...

So. Do tell. Wingspan? Supralight-speed travel mechanism? Mass? Volume?

Are there any Asian, Amerindian or African angels?

How many are there, how many pinheads do they subtend, and if they dance there, is it to GaGa or The Last Dance?