It should be pointed out here that these aren't necessarily anti-gay groups, but anti-gay marriage groups. Some of their members are gay.

I certainly agree with that. I don't care for marriage either, but I certainly wouldn't want to prevent gays who want to marry from marrying. (On the contrary, I'd derive sadistic pleasure from watching them ruin their lives by getting married.)

I expect this group to be short-lived.

In fact, I expect them to go down flaming.

Amy,

You dislike rude public behavior. Does this mean you are a "rude-o-phobe" -- someone with an irrational fear or hatred of rude people? No, it does not.

Implying that anyone who objects to gay marriage is a "homophobe", i.e., has a mental disorder characterized by an irrational fear or hatred of gay people, is bigoted and hateful in itself, wouldn't you agree?

This type of ad hominem attack is designed to shame those with whom one disagrees into silence. In my opinion, this amounts to verbal terrorism.

So then Jay R, by attempting to shame Amy in to silence by accusing her of being bigoted and hateful are you committing verbal terrorism as well?

"Implying that anyone who objects to gay marriage is a "homophobe", i.e., has a mental disorder characterized by an irrational fear or hatred of gay people, is bigoted and hateful in itself, wouldn't you agree?"

I wouldn't. Amy is not taking away the rights of rude people, just letting them know how she feels about it.

As for the ad, I think is intended to be sarcastic, with the message "Look how _____ you look."

Idiots.

Too bad they're gay, or I'd take the third from the bottom.

The biggest homophobe I knew was a gay Frenchie.

He loved Latino guys. Guy was super educated in France. Came over here and dated tons of super hot Latinos. One in particular was incredibly good looking.

Anyways hanging out with gay guys there are so many on the down low. It ain't a myth ladies.

This particular French guy stringed a white woman along. Made me sick. He made her his girlfriend meanwhile he was fucking dudes and having full on relationships with them.

He hated gays too and wanted to marry a woman.

He hated gays too and wanted to marry a woman
Best line I've read in a while.

Shame Amy into silence???? I don't think that's possible.

Even though I have no interest in getting married, I do support gay marriage. Why should homosexuals be spared the misery?

I can fathom no reason why anyone should object to gay marriage. If you don't believe in it, then don't marry someone of your own gender. Why do you care what someone else does?

I pointed out that some of these people are gay themselves who simply object to gay marriage and Amy already acknowledged it.

But even gays can be internalized homophobes. I've known tons of them. But I think getting into gay marriage is a huge mistake. Gay marriage means gay divorce. And when that happens, who is going to get the Waterford???

Repressed homos, maybe?

There are certainly things that disgust and scare you as well, Amy. Are your fears and disgust illegitimate as well, as you seem to imply about critics of gay marriage? I doubt you think so.

Well, mpetrie, you might have a compelling argument...that is, if you had an argument at all. Can you give us a reason why someone might be against gay marriage? So much so, that it's not sufficient to simply not get one for themselves, but to stop others from having one, too?

"There are certainly things that disgust and scare you as well, Amy. Are your fears and disgust illegitimate as well, as you seem to imply about critics of gay marriage? I doubt you think so."

Enlighten us M. Why, exactly, are you against gay marriage? And why are you so against Amy being for it?

Why should gay couples not be allowed to love who they love, and get all the same rights as heterosexual couples? Marriage is about more than just living together, it's about health benefits, wills and testaments, next of kin, child support and visitation, etc etc etc.

How does it affect you?

How does it affect heterosexual marriage?

The only logical answer to that question, is that in opposing gay marriage, you somehow keep that inbred sense of superiority you get from being straight, and letting everyone know how icky you think it is that gay couples should marry.

You might as well just say "eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww fags!" Homo is just as disrespectful.

Does it also not occur to you, that in criticizing Amy for defending gay rights, are you not performing the exact same act you accuse her of?

There are certainly things that disgust and scare you as well, Amy. Are your fears and disgust illegitimate as well, as you seem to imply about critics of gay marriage? I doubt you think so. -- mpetrie98 at August 3, 2013 5:15 PM

When you can twist a simple question around that much I know you have a questionable grip.

If you object to gay marriage on religious grounds, that is perfectly fine. Any church, temple, synagogue, etc. that doesn't want to marry a straight or gay couple that is their right. I will stand next to that religious institution on first amendment grounds.

(There are churches that refuse to marry older couples because they want a religious only ceremony and no legal marriage certificate for financial reasons. That is the church's choice.)

Then there is the temporal side, which includes taxes, inheritance, power of attorney decisions, hospital visitation and the rest. That is a legal issue based on 10th and 14th Amendment rules.

There will be a case at some point that has a Catholic nursing home is conflicted between a gay husband and the sister (or other relative) over the care of an Alzheimer patient on Medicare.

Objecting on the temporal side means that you aren't separating the two questions. If you want to object on religious/moral grounds, go for it.

If you want to object on legal or constitutional grounds, I'm more than willing to cut your legs out on legal grounds.

Amy does the same thing fairly well.

So as to your question are you asking on religious/moral grounds or on the legal side?

Well, I've looked at arguments pro and con for gay marriage, and I find one reason to be against gay marriage: because its advocates want to FORCE businesses to provide goods and services FOR gay marriage. Numerous businesses are facing legal action against them, due to these objections. There are other problems, too. For example, in Massachusetts, where gay marriage has been legalized, a father was apparently given some time in jail because he objected to his child being taught homosexual curricula in his school.

(Of course, the latter problem can be solved by privatizing education, something I strongly believe in. That way, religious folks can enroll their kids in Father Flannelgan's Christain school or Achmed's Firebombing Muslims school, while pro-gay individuals can enroll their children in the Harvey Milking Stool High School of Diversity Is Our Strength.)

So, why the hell should anybody accept gay marriage when it's advocates, and some in the gay community, seem to intend to force its acceptance upon EVERYBODY???

So, why the hell should anybody accept gay marriage when it's advocates, and some in the gay community, seem to intend to force its acceptance upon EVERYBODY??? -- mpetrie98 at August 3, 2013 10:52 PM

And the kids will never meet any other kids that has two mommies or two daddies, right?

And if a business is sued for refusing to provide services, the judge should dismiss case, with a stern lecture to the gay couple that not everyone agrees with them.

I think he means it wrong to force private business and citizens to do business selling merch/services to gay weddings if they dont want to.

To which I have one question

Do you think it wrong to force private business and citizens to do business selling merch/services to interracial weddings if they dont want to.

Do you think it wrong to force private business and citizens to do business selling merch/services to interracial weddings if they dont want to. -- lujlp at August 4, 2013 12:58 PM

Not really. I want to say to be fair, any business should have the right to refuse service to any individual(s) they want to.

I also have no problem with anyone handing out flyers that say "Doe's Tailor shop refused to make tuxes for me and my husband," or similar action.

I hope that level of bigotry is pretty much gone, and a business that disapproves of interracial marriage would be isolated and forced out of business from the lack of it.

I agree Jim P, but since mpetrie98 brought it up I want their answer to that question

I also want Jay R to answer the question I asked 2 days ago.

Do you think it wrong to force private business and citizens to do business selling merch/services to interracial weddings if they dont want to.

As fundamentally repulsive to me as the idea of refusing goods and services to an interracial wedding is, I would have to say that use of force in this case is wrong as well. I would have to agree with Jim. P, that hopefully any business doing so would soon face bankruptcy.

OK I'm confused then, because while you say you'd find it fundamentally repulsive for a company to deny services you dont seem to mind the fact that the law has in fact forced companies to provide services. So how is gay people using the same force of law MORE offensive?

Personally I think people/companies should be allowed to refuse to serve anyone they want for any reason they want.
But so long as the law forces people to provide service to some I dont see how anyone who finds that OK can get bent out of shape when other take advantage of the same laws.

I'm going to have to qualify it a little bit.

Health and emergency services are exempt from choosing who they provide services to. They have to be EEO. (And a plumber is not an emergency service 99.998% of the time.)

The cost has to be close to equivalent across the price list. I can understand costing more for almond icing vs a sour cream icing, but making it a $100 difference based on who is coming through the door is different.

But mpetrie98 has been arguing against gay marriage.