Of Course She's Failing Her AP History Class
A straw-draw put her in there, not her ability.
In the latest LA schools idiocy, they're putting kids in AP classes by lottery, not by ability. It's called the "open access" movement.
Here's how that's working out for one girl, as Teresa Watanabe writes in the LA Times:
Miracle Vitangcol, a Downtown Magnets junior with average grades and test scores, is failing her AP U.S. history class; she said she is overwhelmed by the rapid pace and volume of material she needs to memorize. But she said she intends to stick it out because the class is teaching her to manage her time, take good notes and develop perseverance."I'm struggling to adjust," she said. "But I keep telling myself, 'It's OK. You can do it. Just push yourself.'"
More:
At Jordan High School in Watts, Evan Dvorak confronted that question head-on last year when he allowed any student to take his AP physics class. But he found that those who had not acquired the necessary calculus skills could not handle the work; all 20 students failed the exam."As a teacher, you want to think you can reach every student and perform miracles to get them where they need to be," he said. "But it proved to be too much for everyone."
Anyone who thinks they can teach college-entrance physics to students who have not been taught and mastered college-entrance calculus needs his head examined. You can want them to succeed all you like, but wanting doesn't make differential equations solve themselves.
This story actually speaks worse of the teachers than the students. Not only that their heads are so full of puppies-and-sunshine feelgood educational wishfullness, but that they don't have the sense to integrate math teaching with physics teaching. Like love and marriage, you can't have one, without the other. You just can't. No matter how socially-unjust it is.
The urge to create 'success' on social-justice grounds is actually creating more failure. Who'd have thunk it?
llater,
llamas
llamas at October 10, 2013 8:24 AM
Open access to AP classes should not be considered a right. Instead we need to understand that AP classes in general are a wrong.
I certainly hope someone will alert Diana Moon Glampers to this and pronto!
jerry at October 10, 2013 8:34 AM
Llamas, I doubt if it is the teachers. Idiotic policies like these denote decisions much higher up than teacher level.
Isab at October 10, 2013 9:11 AM
I can understand how students without Calculus skills would have a problem with Physics, but not expect difficulties before entering the class. However, how do you have an issue with History when it basically just requires a lot of reading and understanding the material? And were the students forced into the lottery or did they choose to put their names in? If it was by choice, what made an average student think she could handle an AP class on that level?
Fayd at October 10, 2013 9:34 AM
@Jerry: "Instead we need to understand that AP classes in general are a wrong."
Until I looked up Diana Moon Glampers (I'd read the story, but forgotten the name), I thought maybe you weren't kidding.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 10, 2013 9:59 AM
um, check me if I'm wrong, Sandi...
but isn't "AP" and acronym for ADVANCED PLACEMENT.
maybe the school administrators, just don't know such a thing, right?
I didn't just TAKE AP US History, I had to take a test to get in, and then I took it...
but that was 30 years ago when it meant something.
SwissArmyD at October 10, 2013 10:02 AM
In my (public) high school, to get into an AP course (starting junior year, usually), you had to have a B+ or above in the non-AP equivalent (which you'd usually take sophomore year). If your grade was below that threshold (or you wanted to take an AP class as a sophomore), you had to have a teacher write you a recommendation to the AP teacher. For example, my friend's dad died sophomore year, so she got Cs in a few classes. Her teachers wrote to the AP teachers to get her in -- and she thrived because she was super smart and hard-working.
Our AP history teacher was NOTORIOUS for pressuring kids to drop out and enroll in a lower-level class if they couldn't hack it. She always said the reason she taught AP was so she didn't have to hand-hold -- that it was just like teaching a college course. She considered those who couldn't keep up a waste of the time she spent grading their work.
I don't get this "equal access thing." Kids who are struggling with AP coursework probably aren't going to apply to colleges that even care about AP scores anyway.
sofar at October 10, 2013 10:07 AM
Personally, I like the attitude of the young lady in the history class. Instead of complaining, she is trying to do well and rise to the occasion. I have no problem with open AP classes bc if this girl had had the option earlier she might already be used to the workload. The lottery is a terrible idea though. What if a child who should be in the class isn't? That would upset me. This is what happens when the PC crowd take over the school. It's all about numbers, not quality.
Sheep mommy at October 10, 2013 10:17 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/10/10/of_course_shes.html#comment-3969402">comment from Sheep mommyI like her attitude, too, Sheep mommy but sometimes working really hard isn't enough.
Personally, I was lazy in high school -- could have taken AP classes but saw that I would end up having a lot of homework that got in the way of all my reading! I got pretty much straight As for doing almost nothing in high school.
Amy Alkon at October 10, 2013 10:31 AM
@Miss Alkon: "Personally, I was lazy in high school ... I got pretty much straight As for doing almost nothing in high school."
Similar in my case, although math roughed me up sometimes. We didn't have AP courses in my high school, either.
Here's the thing I wonder about, though. I graduated high school in the early 80s, so I'll address this to anyone around the same age. I don't remember being under such intense pressure to take advanced classes, to take SAT prep courses (if they even existed), or to write brilliant application essays, like the college-bound kids are today. I don't remember guidance counselers pressuring me to get into the "best" school (frankly, I don't remember speaking to a guidance counseler at all). I don't remember doing much but filling out forms. I just don't remember it being so damned hard.
I don't know what's changed. I have ideas, but no data to back them up. Thoughts?
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 10, 2013 10:52 AM
I like her attitude, too, Sheep mommy but sometimes working really hard isn't enough.
Personally, I was lazy in high school -- could have taken AP classes but saw that I would end up having a lot of homework that got in the way of all my reading! I got pretty much straight As for doing almost nothing in high school.
Posted by: Amy Alkon at October 10, 2013 10:31 AM
Too many of the AP classes are a lot of busy work, that don't contribute to success on the exam.
And in my opinion, it is ok to be a little lazy. Laziness allows people to find smarter solutions to tedious tasks.
Isab at October 10, 2013 10:59 AM
Old RPM Daddy
It's been a very long time since I was enrolled at LAUSD, but if I understand what is happening, there is a sense in which AP courses are wrong.
That is that it appears the non-AP courses are so worthless that the only worthwhile courses are the AP courses. If that's the case, I can understand the demand to open up AP courses to everyone, but of course what really should happen is the non-AP courses should be brought up to snuff.
However, if you're going to offer AP classes, open access by lottery seems the truly stupid way of determining who gets in.
(When I was enrolled at LAUSD, AP courses were pretty poor too, the best courses I had were ones I was forced to take at the local community college because they were not offered at my school.)
jerry at October 10, 2013 11:05 AM
How can anyone forget the name Diana Moon Glampers!
I think what changed is that college became pretty much mandatory.
I graduated in the late 70s and though my parents had never been to college, I was still surprised by how many of my friends were planning on going to community college, if that.
But late 80s - 90s, I think it became mandatory for everyone to go to college, and yet there were limited slots.
Add to that employer demands, and how K-12 grew so incredibly terrible, plus how affluent parents were sending their kids off to unpaid internships, and taking a zillion prep classes....
And add to that the schools themselves often preferentially admitting foreign students who paid much higher tuition and gave the professors a sense of social justice by admitting kids from around the world regardless of how the universities had been set up, ie, university of CALIFORNIA...
jerry at October 10, 2013 11:11 AM
When I was in the last couple of years of high school (in a different country, but that shouldn't make any difference) and I selected classes based on my intentions for college, my physics teacher and my advanced math teacher cooperated so that it was clear who had the math skills to handle the physics and who needed to bring their skills up to scratch. And the physics teacher made it clear up front that those who couldn't do the math were going to fail the class, no exceptions, no excuses. And he enforced his requirement with aggressive testing early in the term.
You can't do college entrance physics without knowing how to do calculus, as well as other advanced math concepts. You just can't. You can want to all you want, but you just can't. And the physics teacher does the student no favours by allowing them into the class if they don't have the required tools.
llater,
llamas
llamas at October 10, 2013 11:45 AM
If my kid missed out of an AP class because he/she didn't win the lottery and some kid got in and was failing it--I'd sue the district. Success in AP classes are what top colleges look for, and if my kid was denied that opportunity so someone else could learn how to "take good notes", I'd be livid.
I'd say the lottery method is LAUSD's sneaky trick to make sure the AP classes aren't 99% Asian, because diversity is considered more important than success in LAUSD's skewed view.
Any high school junior who's just figuring out that taking good notes is important has no business being in an AP class.
KateC at October 10, 2013 11:50 AM
Check out this speech from a Keppel student--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y6E2P1SeBk
"I have personal experience with that. During Senior Awards Night, I discovered that Principal Jacinth Cisneros had, intentionally or not, plagiarized a large portion of my graduation speech, which she had heard at tryouts. While I believe that such behavior is reprehensible, whether from a school official or not, I did not confront her about it for fear that she would somehow engineer some convenient excuse to prevent me from graduating or, at the very least, make my life hell for as long as she could. "
KateC at October 10, 2013 11:59 AM
Hmmm, I seem to recall there was a reason Newton worked on developing calculus: so he could explain his new concepts of physics in a mathematically complete way.
I R A Darth Aggie at October 10, 2013 12:02 PM
Old RPM Daddy
Yes, your memories match mine. I recall picking my college, deciding I would go there, applying, being under a tiny bit of apprehension when the package arrived in the mail, but not being a bit surprised that I was accepted. I didn't apply to other colleges - didn't even think about doing so - and don't recall putting more than the minimum required effort, into my one application.
My guidance counselor was in the picture, mainly helping me find and apply for all the scholarship money she could dig up. And I got most of those, too - some of them because I was the *only* student who wrote the required essay.
You're right - it didn't seem all that hard.
flbeachmom at October 10, 2013 12:20 PM
It the failing student is supposed to be college-bound, she's just screwed her GPA by taking a class she can't handle. If this is someone who could have made an A or B in a regular history class, the school is doing her a huge disservice by allowing her this "opportunity."
I took a few AP classes when I was in highschool in the late 90's. I got credit for freshman composition and a civics course by taking the AP test. I wouldn't have even considered trying to take AP calculus or chemistry- I KNEW I didn't have the apptitude. I was right around the cutoff for the top ten percent of my class, and a low grade would've knocked me out of it. So it's kind of funny- I got accepted into schools like the University of Texas because I took the easier class instead of the hard one that could have ruined my academic record. It's better to get a 95 in pre-cal then a 72 in AP Calculus if you're applying to a competitive school, right? The kids who were slugging it out to be valedictorian would ONLY take AP our senior year, because the classes were "weighted" and they could make a grade higher than 100.
ahw at October 10, 2013 12:32 PM
I took AP US History in 1986. VERY fast paced class, tons of reading, class was all note taking. Three essay papers a week on our opinion of some tiny event in history. I've asked my kids about some of the US History topics I was taught, to see what they were being taught about them now. Neither of my sons had even heard of them. (The Teapot Dome scandal).
I agree with another poster that so much of this pressure is because so many major companies require college degrees to become a salaried employee, or for promotion. 27 years of experience in my field, starting from the entry-level bottom, and my company will not promote me without that degree. They will give be job duties and responsibilities commensurate with a person 4 grades above me, but not the matching pay. (Yes, I am bitter about it!) However, I'm happy to have a steady job that I enjoy.
"Tippecanoe and Tyler too!"
KLClark at October 10, 2013 12:40 PM
@KateC: "I'd say the lottery method is LAUSD's sneaky trick to make sure the AP classes aren't 99% Asian, because diversity is considered more important than success in LAUSD's skewed view."
And as an added bonus, the lottery method provides an easier means of deniable corruption. After all, it's easier to "fix" a lottery drawing for an angry parent than it is to shoehorn somebody into an AP class when there's actual merit involved.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 10, 2013 1:00 PM
On the other hand, KL Clark, I know I learned about the Teapot Dome and Tippecanoe and Tyler too in my 7th grade American President's class, but for the life of me I can't remember what either of those were.
Sadly, I'm going senile.
NicoleK at October 10, 2013 2:24 PM
On the other hand, KL Clark, I know I learned about the Teapot Dome and Tippecanoe and Tyler too in my 7th grade American President's class, but for the life of me I can't remember what either of those were.
Sadly, I'm going senile.
Posted by: NicoleK at October 10, 2013 2:24 PM
As someone with a history degree, knowing those low level facts is not as important as knowing trends and significance
of different periods.
Teapot dome is about government corruption and pay offs to friends and supporters. Sound familiar?
Tippacannoe and Tyler too, is about war heroes running for president. Neither event has any significance standing alone.
Isab at October 10, 2013 3:01 PM
Wait-lottery? So very bright kids might not get in, and stupid ones do? That's ridiculous. Letting anyone who wants to take it is one thing, but literally keeping the kids who need it out? Stupid.
momof4 at October 10, 2013 4:19 PM
Fun: an acquaintance at work says that since he took advanced math classes in high school and was valedictorian, he would start out with a 2nd-year math class at MIT.
He had never seen the fifth symbol the TA put on the board.
He got up, left the class, slipped on down to the Registrar's office and signed up for the proper, first-year math class.
Radwaste at October 10, 2013 8:52 PM
I can see a lottery for an AP History class where 170 students took the test, or have the grades, and the teacher(s) can only realistically handle about 145.
But a lottery of the school population when they didn't specifically ask is a stupid waste of time.
Jim P. at October 10, 2013 9:47 PM
The main issue I see with AP classes now is you can get college credit for them. I think that you should have to earn the AP class access based on your score or scores (like science and math for an AP science class). You could then take that to your college of choice and say I want to take the test to see if I can skip x, y and z. They got no college experience, no college writing experience and no self control. they end up dumbing down the classes to accommodate them more often than not. Some of the worst classes I ever had.
NakkiNyan at October 10, 2013 10:04 PM
"what really should happen is the non-AP courses should be brought up to snuff"
Well, yes, but then you would have to actually fail the bad students, instead of passing them on from year to year. When it turns out (as it will) that the failing students are disproportionally black (as it will), the entire liberal establishment will freak. Since that liberal establishment is running the schools, however, there is no danger of any of this happening...
This attitude of insisting on the "world as it should be" rather than looking at reality just makes the problems worse. Instead of denying that some kids are below average, perhaps one should figure out what education is appropriate for different types of kids. Instead of denying that black kids are disproportionately problems in schools, perhaps one should address the problems with inner-city black culture that lead to this.
a_random_guy at October 10, 2013 10:54 PM
KL Clark, my memory of history is based mainly on what people were wearing at the time, and other lifestyle things. It's how I can remember the order... if I know what they were wearing, I know more or less where on the history timeline they are.
NicoleK at October 11, 2013 4:14 AM
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