Islam isn't that powerful...

In places of isolation, deprivation and idiocy, Islam's strong enough to survive, even while other social forces wither without sustenance from things like literacy, commerce, telephones and education.

That doesn't mean the surviving religion in those places is all that powerful... Quite the opposite. Islam is the religion in that last fraction of the world which never had any human muscle (intellect! competition! sexuality!) at work anyway.

Say what you want about Christianity, but it powered on through the Renaissance... Which was the belly of the beast, modernity-wise. It was bloodied and humbled, but it's still around.

To me, this is a cousin issue to the hatred of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, and the infantile squealing 'The US isn't the world's POLICEMAN!'

Well, y'know, nothing is better for women than American-style modernity. Nothing.

If we fucked it up in Afghanistan or Iraq and left Islam in charge, it's because the proudly secular forces in our culture weren't paying attention to their responsibilities.

That doesn't mean the surviving religion in those places is all that powerful... Quite the opposite. Islam is the religion in that last fraction of the world which never had any human muscle (intellect! competition! sexuality!) at work anyway. -- Crid at April 19, 2014 2:42 AM

In a way you are right. The problem is that in some of the Muslim dominated countries they have resources (oil) that the rest of the world lacks.

If the U.S. came up with a comprehensive, realistic energy policy we could effectively cut that strangle hold. There is enough have enough oil, natural gas and coal in and around the North American continent that we could supply the rest of the world for centuries.

Until that is done, we can't cut the Muslims off and let them die on the vine.

Jim P. - yep! drill, baby, drill!

The US is now within the top five oil producers in the world.

And, that's with the current restrictions against fracking, drilling, pipelines, etc. All, we need to do is "unleash the beast" and watch the oil from North America supply the world. And than watch Russia and the Middle East "die on the vine."

We can only wish.

> In a way you are right.

Every way... That's just how it works.

Every way... That's just how it works. -- Crid at April 19, 2014 2:27 PM

No -- on this little chunk you have half a clue.

The other portion is that the nations that have been afflicted by the Islamic disease are probably going to be lost for a generation, if not more.

There are also parts of the U.S. that have been infected as well. Look at the Muslim taxi drivers that are refusing to transport alcohol or those who have imbibed. The public schools that they want to separate boys from girls. There are multiple cases like this, but for the most part we have resisted it so far.

Once we get to an energy independent state that the Muslim countries can't dictate to us, the Europeans, and some Asian countries that will allow those countries to push back.

> The other portion is that the nations
> that have been afflicted by the Islamic
> disease are probably going to be lost
> for a generation, if not more.

Your concern is piquant! But uncounted generations were presumably "lost" as Islam took root in those cultures in earlier centuries, and even the decades of your own life, and you didn't seem too concerned about them... We certainly haven't heard your enthusiasm for projecting modernity's blessings into those places.

People like to pretend there's something new under the sun.

Your concern is piquant! But uncounted generations were presumably "lost" as Islam took root in those cultures in earlier centuries, and even the decades of your own life, and you didn't seem too concerned about them... -- Crid at April 19, 2014 7:38 PM

Generally the assumption is/was that Europe was a grown-up and adult set of societies that didn't need the U.S. to play the nanny for them with the exception of the USSR.

In addition, I'm not an old retired MFer like you that can keep my head to the ground for every little thing that is always happening.

But of course you sounded all the warnings here about the problems in Europe and the Muslim world even prior to 9/11 I'm sure.

> Generally the assumption is/was that

Whose assumption, exactly? I never thought anything of the kind, nor did anyone I know and admire, including Europeans. What is a European initiative that addressed Bosnia and Kosovo?

> that Europe was a grown-up and adult set of
> societies that didn't need the U.S. to play
> the nanny for them with the exception
> of the USSR.

First, your wording. You don't mean "with the exception of," you mean "with respect to," which is a huge consideration.

Second, the postwar deal was to protect them from anybody, including, say, an imaginary resurgent Japan. It doesn't matter: Once you're protecting them from one threat, they'll presume you're covering everything.

> I'm not an old retired MFer like you

Who's old? Who's retired? I'm vital, and attentive:

> But of course you sounded all the warnings
> here about the problems in Europe and the
> Muslim world even prior to 9/11 I'm sure.

Well, Amy's blog wasn't around back then, but if you'd been in touch, you'd certainly have had a better perspective... The 90's gave us plenty of indications that the Europeans were asleep at the helm of their own craft, as Islam had been clear about its incompetence.

Try making your argument that the Muslims actually follow their book, sometimes, and not that the book contains those passages. The bible has the same ones, but iI don't see you condemning Judaism or Christianity solely on the passages of the book.