Bingo. 100% correct for all the right reasons.

I have so many allergies, that the last thing I need to be adding to my diet is a dozen different non nutritive chemicals,
My 89 year old mother practically lives on fruit, which is a poor poor choice, but even she has sense enough not to eat this crap.

His next-to-last paragraph amounts to the Precautionary Principle. That in my view makes HIM "guilty until proven innocent" -- of being part of the nanny-statist movement that is trying to take our food choices away.

His next-to-last paragraph amounts to the Precautionary Principle. That in my view makes HIM "guilty until proven innocent" -- of being part of the nanny-statist movement that is trying to take our food choices away.

Posted by: jdgalt at May 30, 2014 10:08 AM

I noticed that. However, I don't see him calling for banning artificial sweeteners. They are just another one of those things, that a sensible person, is going to watch, and see if they have an adverse reaction.

Where the precautionary principle breaks down, is when people try to apply it to things for which there are no alternatives, or the alternative, is a product that is even risker than the one they want taken off the market.

I don't consume artificial sweeteners for the same reason I don't buy or consume Oreos. On those rare occasions that I eat a commercially prepared product, I want to know what is in it.

This is not the same as the whole GMO hysteria, and most this shit has been approved by the FDA so it is not coming off the market anytime soon.

Jdgalt beat me to it... I was following the argument until he got to that paragraph. It's an admission of weakness in the argument. If we followed the precautionary principle back to the beginning of civilization, we'd still all be foraging for berries and nuts. Last I checked, cured bacon and lasagna and milkshakes don't grow on trees.

If we followed the precautionary principle back to the beginning of civilization, we'd still all be foraging for berries and nuts.

And the foraging part, was probably the most healthful part of their lifestyle.

The whole human evolutionary history is one of people eating strange things, especially in times of famine, and a lot of them dying from it.

Just because a milkshake or two, is not going to kill a healthy sixteen year old, doesn't mean that the milkshake diet is optimum for a sixty year old who would like to live, and be active into their 80's.

When you look at the number of people in Japan over a hundred years of age, and what they eat, and don't eat, you have to conclude they are doing something right, although exactly what it is, or isn't, has yet to be determined.

Good genes will cut you a lot of dietary slack, but not forever.

The only precautionary principle I live by, is to follow the adage, if my great grandparents would not have recognized something as food, maybe I should think twice before I eat it.

I go back and forth between the US and Japan, living two or three months over there, and three or four months over here.
I noticed that in Japan where I eat mostly grilled meat, fish and vegetables with rice, or noodles, my allergies are almost non existent.

His next-to-last paragraph amounts to the Precautionary Principle. That in my view makes HIM "guilty until proven innocent" -- of being part of the nanny-statist movement that is trying to take our food choices away.

Why assume this? I'd sooner lick the inside of somebody's break room refrigerator than eat artificial sweeteners, but I'm not looking to tell you that you can't use them.

"Just because a milkshake or two, is not going to kill a healthy sixteen year old, doesn't mean that the milkshake diet is optimum for a sixty year old who would like to live, and be active into their 80's."

That's sort of my point, though. I know you know what the precautionary principle says: nothing is acceptable unless it can be absolutely ironclad proven to be totally risk free, no matter how it's used or abused. It's a philosophy for people who don't want to have to concern themselves with the consequences of their decisions. Of course, achieving the level of proof required is impossible, so it becomes a handy tool for people who have sufficient political power to get anything that they don't like banned.

That's certainly not to say that we can't eat better, and yeah, over-consumption artificial sweeteners is probably not going to have good effects -- in food, there is no free lunch, so to speak. But I'll repeat here my contention that nutrition science has accomplished not a damn thing since the identification of the last of the essential vitamins, in the early 1960s. I tend to be inherently leery of any nutritional advice I see from any source, unless there is damn solid evidence. Kessler, as do a lot of nutritionists, hurts his argument by resorting to the language of the Miss Grundys -- it's nothing more than an appeal to authority.

"But I'll repeat here my contention that nutrition science has accomplished not a damn thing since the identification of the last of the essential vitamins, in the early 1960s. "

I think you ought to read the latest info on Vitamin D. We now know, that enough Vitamin D to prevent rickets, does not mean enough for good health.

There is a great deal of bad info out there, that the government and the medical profession is still operating under,

Doesn't mean, there isn't good work being done but a lot of it is politically unpopular.

I don't expect dermatologists to admit for the next twenty years, that sunshine is actually good for you, and I don't expect the government to admit for at least that long, that a low fat high carb diet is turning quite a few Americans into unhealthy obese diabetics.

Isab, While I agree with what you are saying "When you look at the number of people in Japan over a hundred years of age ..." Most of the people in Japan over 100 are dead. The Japanese government considered this a point of pride and never checked up on all those 100+ers. A few years back a documentary group tried to interview the centenarian of Japan and found most of them died in their 70s but their kids were still cashing their welfare checks.

I get gestational diabetes. This last time, I mentioned to my doctor that diet sodas, which technically have no carbs, still seemed to raise my blood sugar. He said, yes, they do. Well, that was enough to put me off of them. In my opinion anything that causes a large release of insulin is going to make you fat.

My mother-in-law, a nurse, drinks gallons of diet Pepsi. For as long as I've known her she's been about 60-100 pounds overweight.

I should point out here, stevia is not an artificial sweetener. It's at least as natural as table sugar. It's a natural non-caloric sweetener.

And with that, I have to point out, I'm not suggesting that because something is "natural," it's good. Never said stevia was good or bad. I just said it was not artificial, and it's not.

(I have to include these addenda because idiots like lujlp and Radwaste are insane with their capacity to infer things that are never said.)

" I noticed that in Japan where I eat mostly grilled meat, fish and vegetables with rice, or noodles, my allergies are almost non existent."

But here is the thing they don't exactly eat low carb. Low sugar yes, but not low carb. So why are they so skinny? I loose weight there too but if I tried eating like that here Id be 500 lbs.

I also used to live in a big Japanese American community here and they aren't always thin but generally are.

Is it genetics? What is it? You can't say it's an Asian thing because other Americanized Asians aren't so thin.

I'm with Cousin Dave on this,.

I should also point out that I hate the term "bad carbs" and anyone who uses that term (looking at you, Amy and Dr. Eades) should be stoned to death with boxes of saltines.

There.
Is.
No.
Such.
Thing.
As.
A.
Bad.
Carb.

Carbs can only be appropriate or inappropriate to the task you have before you. You wouldn't stop a person halfway through the Boston marathon from drinking Gatorade.

"Oh, you shouldn't drink that Gatorade! It's bad carbs! Eat this asparagus instead!" No, for the endurance event, the Gatorade will both rehydrate and give him a more immediate source of energy than the asparagus.

I also used to live in a big Japanese American community here and they aren't always thin but generally are.

Is it genetics? What is it? You can't say it's an Asian thing because other Americanized Asians aren't so thin.

I'm with Cousin Dave on this,.

Posted by: Ppen at May 30, 2014 4:55 PM

Well the Japanese aren't the Koreans, and aren't the Chinese either. Lumping them all together genetically is kind of simplistic.

I'm starting to see quite a few obese people in Japan. Almost all are under 30, and at the same time, there is a lot more bread, and candy in the grocery stores, and a McDonalds, and a Baskin Robbins near every town of any size. Also a Mister Donut.

Poverty is an amazing diet aid, It keeps the people in a lot of countries thin.

Sandwiches are becoming quite popular in Japan, and there are also more cars.

Most people walk and bike a great deal more than the average person does in the US, and the elderly people in Japan stand and squat more than they sit.

My mother is 89, and has been unable to pick herself up off the floor for the last ten years. She simply does not have enough strength in her arms and legs for the weight she is carrying around. If she lets herself get much weaker, she will be bedridden.

The people in Okinawa do better at longevity than those on Honshu or Hokkaido. Used to be, they thought better diet, now they think more sunshine.
The Japanese are not fair skinned individuals, and in the northern latitude they have screamingly high rates of fatal internal cancers.

It isn't any one thing, but dietary studies in the US indicate that gut bacteria have a lot to do with your weight. Sugar and fast digesting carbs change most people's biochemistry, for the worse.

I have a friend who is 63, and very thin. He eats whatever he wants but also runs about 25 miles a week, and lifts weights. He comes from a naturally thin family, and they are all like that.

Most of us aren't so lucky. The tendency to put on weight when there is excess food around, is a trait that caused many of our ancestors to survive when people who could not do that died.

It isn't that people in the US don't live a long time, but too many of them are bedridden for the last several years of their life. I don't call that living.

At the rate that the Japanese drink and smoke, yea, most of them don't live that long, but the ones without those bad habits, seem to live a very long time indeed.

I'm not saying that it is any one factor, or a magic solution, but if you are obese, and struggling to take off weight, the first thing you should dump is the bread and the sugar.

Also if you read my comment, about the Japanese diet, it was in regards to my allergies, not my weight.
I can gain weight in Japan, or I can lose it depending on how much snacking I let myself indulge in, and what I eat, But I don't keep bread or crackers in my house over there, and it seems to help.

"Also if you read my comment, about the Japanese diet, it was in regards to my allergies, not my weight. "

Jesus Christ I read your comment I was just making my own. What Patrick wrote above is true you need to write disclaimers on here or people will call you out on things you never said.

"I know Isab you wrote about allergies but I'm going to now talk about how everytime I go over there I loose weight, and of course I'm only talking about if I eat a traditional Japanese diet and not the more modern one they are starting to have now that is becoming more Americanized. I bring this up because on this blog we are told that low carb is the only way to be skinny. (disclaimer: I know some on here have said that starving yourself you can be skinny) but they don't eat low carb and aren't in abject poverty starving themselves so what gives?"

'found most of them died in their 70s but their kids were still cashing their welfare checks.'

There were a few cases of this, but it was not 'most of them'...they are making appearances on the evening news when they hit milestones, looking very much alive :-D

Crella is correct. However to bring this subject back to the original point.

I don't consume non nutritive sweeteners (note the distinction Patrick) for the same reasons I don't consume cardboard.

They have no nutritional value, and they taste like shit. They also seem to aggravate my allergies.

If those are not reasons enough, not to eat the stuff, I don't know what is.

Good show, Isab. Sounds like good reasons to me.

"(I have to include these addenda because idiots like lujlp and Radwaste are insane with their capacity to infer things that are never said.)"

Actually, your problem with us started way back when you simply refused to answer questions about how and why you posted something - you apparently still cannot realize that when you make a citation, you associate yourself with the viewpoint it represents. Nice to see that we are still uppermost in your mind.

-------------

Amy – about licking the break room refrigerator:
You're a hot redhead. You can make money doing that.
Just thought I'd help out in case times get tough!

Most of us aren't so lucky. The tendency to put on weight when there is excess food around, is a trait that caused many of our ancestors to survive when people who could not do that died.

"I winter well" is the best description I've heard of this.