For a taste: "I always assume that any black person in a well-paid position is an Affirmative Action hire."
Scumbag.
Patrick
at May 30, 2014 8:37 AM
"I always assume that any black person in a well-paid position is an Affirmative Action hire."
Isn't that the way a lot of people look at it, though? Not just whites either. Let's imagine some hypothetical institution (like, oh, say, college campuses) where white men are in short enough supply that the administration starts bending rules and lowering standards to get more such in. Would I want to go to such a place and be labeled a quota admission? Heck no. That's why I don't want colleges, no matter how top-heavy (sorry) with women their student body may get, to establish lower admissions standards for men.
Cousin Dave
at May 30, 2014 10:08 AM
Actually, I don't look at it that way. I've met enough minorities in high-paid positions that seem to know what they're doing, leaving me not to assume that every black person in a high-paid position is a quota hire. And is it so impossible to believe that there might have been a quota hire, somewhere, who actually did do a good job and did deserve their position, but wouldn't have gotten it without affirmative action?
I've also met plenty of white incompetents who left me thinking, "They must know somebody..."
Mike Bloomberg, of all people, defends free speech. Credit where credit is due. But who'd a thunk it.
Cousin Dave
at May 30, 2014 10:53 AM
Patrick, Derbyshire's view on race (especially African-Americans) are pretty controversial and borderline, if not outright, racist. He's also pretty sexist, arguing that the country would be better off if women did not have the right to vote.
In some of his other views, however, he's pretty close to the views you've expressed in this forum.
In terms of his Maya Angelou comments, I've met several people, liberal and conservative, white and black, who have opined that she was a mediocre poet and writer and had she been white, she would have toiled in virtual anonymity.
Some of that criticism probably stems from academic snobbery. Angelou was not a classical poet in the vein of Emily Dickinson or Elizabeth Barrett Browning. Nor was she educated as a poet at an Ivy League university.
Like Charles Dickens and Jack London, she was an working class outsider and derided by the cognoscenti as a hack.
Conan the Grammarian
at May 30, 2014 11:06 AM
And is it so impossible to believe that there might have been a quota hire, somewhere, who actually did do a good job and did deserve their position, but wouldn't have gotten it without affirmative action?
Colin Powell was an affirmative action promotion. Jimmy Carter was handed a list of officers eligible to be promoted to general and asked that the list be expanded to include minorities who, but for past racist attitudes in the military, have been on that list. Powell's name was on the updated list and he was promoted.
Powell later rejected Ronald Reagan's offer of the position as National Security Advisor, telling him he wanted to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the NSA job usually led to civilian life rather than furthering one's career in the military. So, Reagan made a deal with him. If he accepted the NSA job, Reagan said he would submit his name for the next opening for the Chairman of the JCS. Powell took him up on the offer and Reagan later named him Chairman of the JCS.
Conan the Grammarian
at May 30, 2014 11:14 AM
Interesting piece, Cousin Dave, it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy.
Patrick
at May 30, 2014 11:22 AM
Interesting piece, Cousin Dave, it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy.
Patrick
at May 30, 2014 12:41 PM
Conan: He's also pretty sexist, arguing that the country would be better off if women did not have the right to vote.
Doubtless reminding us that the very first presidential election which allowed women to vote gave us Warren G. Harding.
Conan: In some of his other views, however, he's pretty close to the views you've expressed in this forum.
Such as?
Patrick
at May 30, 2014 12:45 PM
"it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy."
Here's how I see McCarthy. The guy was batshit paranoid. But you know what they say about paranoia... there really were Communists and traitors in Hollywood, and at moderately high levels in government, media and industry (e.g., Walter Duranty, Armond Hammer). And yes, the Soviet Union really did seek to corrupt American culture through entertainment. We can argue about how successful they were, but that was their intent.
Where McCarthy blew it was that he had lousy aim; he shotgunned accusations and he often operated on the "lock 'em up first, find evidence later" theory. Had he been thorough and done the job properly, we might not be in the predicament we are in now.
Cousin Dave
at May 30, 2014 12:46 PM
@"there really were Communists and traitors in Hollywood"
'were' you say.
Lobster
at May 30, 2014 12:54 PM
from the linked article:
Derbyshire...
...supported Michael Schiavo's position in the Terri Schiavo case
...ridiculed George W. Bush's "itty-bitty tax cut, paid for by dumping a slew of federal debt on your children and grandchildren"
...has derided Bush in general for being too sure of his religious convictions and for his "rich-kid-ness"
...dismisses small-government conservatism as unlikely to ever take hold
...has called for immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq
...opposes market reforms or any other changes in Social Security
...is pro-choice on abortion
...supports euthanasia in a fairly wide range of circumstances
...has suggested that he might (in a time of international crisis) vote for Hillary Clinton as president
I believe some of these match your stated positions.
Conan the Grammarian
at May 30, 2014 1:32 PM
Thanks, Cone-head. Some of those are indeed positions I've held. Not all of them, though.
...supported Michael Schiavo's position in the Terri Schiavo case
Guilty as charged.
...ridiculed George W. Bush's "itty-bitty tax cut, paid for by dumping a slew of federal debt on your children and grandchildren"
I would say that it's more that the tax cuts favor the rich. These endless loopholes that the rich and corporations get out of paying.
...has derided Bush in general for being too sure of his religious convictions and for his "rich-kid-ness"
Well, when decisions regarding this nation are justified by saying because God told me to, I have a problem with that, yes. I don't begrudge Bush his affluence. I detest him because he's a sissy.
...dismisses small-government conservatism as unlikely to ever take hold
I don't think there is a faction of conservatism that truly believes in small government. When you look at the private matters that they wish to stick their collective nose in, it's not only not feasible with a small government, but downright disturbing.
...has called for immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq
I say we shouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place. But immediate withdrawal, I'm not so sure about. If that seems contradictory, I'm only stating that we shouldn't have gone in, but since we are there and we made the mess, we should clean it up.
...opposes market reforms or any other changes in Social Security
Bleah. Privatizing social security? Terrible idea. Watch the cost of premiums go up and the returns get smaller. You think it's bad now? Think of the horror story it will become if it's privatized.
...is pro-choice on abortion
True. I am, as well. I'll rethink my position once pro-lifers agree to care for these kids, and while they're at it, adopt the ones in orphanages, too.
...supports euthanasia in a fairly wide range of circumstances
I do. And even for depressed people. Instead of therapists for the chronically depressed. We should have case managers who could concede that their patient's life is fucked up and they have no reason to anticipate it getting better. So, they should assist them with putting their affairs in order, discuss various methods for successfully killing oneself, and even say good-bye when they finally decide to do it.
...has suggested that he might (in a time of international crisis) vote for Hillary Clinton as president
She'd have been better than Obama.
So, thanks, Conan. You're very right. He does agree with me on a number of issues.
Hopefully, our links won't wear their pants quite as high, either.
A conservative writer shares his opinion on Maya Angelou...and about black people in general.
For a taste: "I always assume that any black person in a well-paid position is an Affirmative Action hire."
Scumbag.
Patrick at May 30, 2014 8:37 AM
"I always assume that any black person in a well-paid position is an Affirmative Action hire."
Isn't that the way a lot of people look at it, though? Not just whites either. Let's imagine some hypothetical institution (like, oh, say, college campuses) where white men are in short enough supply that the administration starts bending rules and lowering standards to get more such in. Would I want to go to such a place and be labeled a quota admission? Heck no. That's why I don't want colleges, no matter how top-heavy (sorry) with women their student body may get, to establish lower admissions standards for men.
Cousin Dave at May 30, 2014 10:08 AM
Actually, I don't look at it that way. I've met enough minorities in high-paid positions that seem to know what they're doing, leaving me not to assume that every black person in a high-paid position is a quota hire. And is it so impossible to believe that there might have been a quota hire, somewhere, who actually did do a good job and did deserve their position, but wouldn't have gotten it without affirmative action?
I've also met plenty of white incompetents who left me thinking, "They must know somebody..."
On another topic, here's one that sure to make Amy's blood boil. A routine traffic stop subjected someone to anal probes.
Patrick at May 30, 2014 10:20 AM
Mike Bloomberg, of all people, defends free speech. Credit where credit is due. But who'd a thunk it.
Cousin Dave at May 30, 2014 10:53 AM
Patrick, Derbyshire's view on race (especially African-Americans) are pretty controversial and borderline, if not outright, racist. He's also pretty sexist, arguing that the country would be better off if women did not have the right to vote.
In some of his other views, however, he's pretty close to the views you've expressed in this forum.
Blind squirrels, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Derbyshire
In terms of his Maya Angelou comments, I've met several people, liberal and conservative, white and black, who have opined that she was a mediocre poet and writer and had she been white, she would have toiled in virtual anonymity.
Some of that criticism probably stems from academic snobbery. Angelou was not a classical poet in the vein of Emily Dickinson or Elizabeth Barrett Browning. Nor was she educated as a poet at an Ivy League university.
Like Charles Dickens and Jack London, she was an working class outsider and derided by the cognoscenti as a hack.
Conan the Grammarian at May 30, 2014 11:06 AM
Colin Powell was an affirmative action promotion. Jimmy Carter was handed a list of officers eligible to be promoted to general and asked that the list be expanded to include minorities who, but for past racist attitudes in the military, have been on that list. Powell's name was on the updated list and he was promoted.
Powell later rejected Ronald Reagan's offer of the position as National Security Advisor, telling him he wanted to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the NSA job usually led to civilian life rather than furthering one's career in the military. So, Reagan made a deal with him. If he accepted the NSA job, Reagan said he would submit his name for the next opening for the Chairman of the JCS. Powell took him up on the offer and Reagan later named him Chairman of the JCS.
Conan the Grammarian at May 30, 2014 11:14 AM
Interesting piece, Cousin Dave, it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy.
Patrick at May 30, 2014 11:22 AM
Interesting piece, Cousin Dave, it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy.
Patrick at May 30, 2014 12:41 PM
Conan: He's also pretty sexist, arguing that the country would be better off if women did not have the right to vote.
Doubtless reminding us that the very first presidential election which allowed women to vote gave us Warren G. Harding.
Conan: In some of his other views, however, he's pretty close to the views you've expressed in this forum.
Such as?
Patrick at May 30, 2014 12:45 PM
"it somewhat lost me when it was defending Joe McCarthy."
Here's how I see McCarthy. The guy was batshit paranoid. But you know what they say about paranoia... there really were Communists and traitors in Hollywood, and at moderately high levels in government, media and industry (e.g., Walter Duranty, Armond Hammer). And yes, the Soviet Union really did seek to corrupt American culture through entertainment. We can argue about how successful they were, but that was their intent.
Where McCarthy blew it was that he had lousy aim; he shotgunned accusations and he often operated on the "lock 'em up first, find evidence later" theory. Had he been thorough and done the job properly, we might not be in the predicament we are in now.
Cousin Dave at May 30, 2014 12:46 PM
@"there really were Communists and traitors in Hollywood"
'were' you say.
Lobster at May 30, 2014 12:54 PM
from the linked article:
Derbyshire...
I believe some of these match your stated positions.
Conan the Grammarian at May 30, 2014 1:32 PM
Thanks, Cone-head. Some of those are indeed positions I've held. Not all of them, though.
...supported Michael Schiavo's position in the Terri Schiavo case
Guilty as charged.
...ridiculed George W. Bush's "itty-bitty tax cut, paid for by dumping a slew of federal debt on your children and grandchildren"
I would say that it's more that the tax cuts favor the rich. These endless loopholes that the rich and corporations get out of paying.
...has derided Bush in general for being too sure of his religious convictions and for his "rich-kid-ness"
Well, when decisions regarding this nation are justified by saying because God told me to, I have a problem with that, yes. I don't begrudge Bush his affluence. I detest him because he's a sissy.
...dismisses small-government conservatism as unlikely to ever take hold
I don't think there is a faction of conservatism that truly believes in small government. When you look at the private matters that they wish to stick their collective nose in, it's not only not feasible with a small government, but downright disturbing.
...has called for immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq
I say we shouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place. But immediate withdrawal, I'm not so sure about. If that seems contradictory, I'm only stating that we shouldn't have gone in, but since we are there and we made the mess, we should clean it up.
...opposes market reforms or any other changes in Social Security
Bleah. Privatizing social security? Terrible idea. Watch the cost of premiums go up and the returns get smaller. You think it's bad now? Think of the horror story it will become if it's privatized.
...is pro-choice on abortion
True. I am, as well. I'll rethink my position once pro-lifers agree to care for these kids, and while they're at it, adopt the ones in orphanages, too.
...supports euthanasia in a fairly wide range of circumstances
I do. And even for depressed people. Instead of therapists for the chronically depressed. We should have case managers who could concede that their patient's life is fucked up and they have no reason to anticipate it getting better. So, they should assist them with putting their affairs in order, discuss various methods for successfully killing oneself, and even say good-bye when they finally decide to do it.
...has suggested that he might (in a time of international crisis) vote for Hillary Clinton as president
She'd have been better than Obama.
So, thanks, Conan. You're very right. He does agree with me on a number of issues.
Patrick at May 30, 2014 3:25 PM
Leave a comment