Back To The Basement -- And Ages Past
I couldn't wait to leave my parents' home -- first for college and then to have my own place and my own life. Well, this is happening less and less, writes Walter Hamilton in the LA Times, thanks to a sluggish job market and other factors:
More Americans than ever live in multigenerational households, and the number of millennials who live with their parents is rising sharply, according to a study released Thursday.A record 57 million Americans, or 18.1% of the population, lived in multigenerational arrangements in 2012, according to the Pew Research Center. That's more than double the 28 million people who lived in such households in 1980, the center said.
...About 23.6% of people age 25 to 34 live with their parents, grandparents or both, according to Pew. That's up from 18.7% in 2007, just prior to the global financial crisis, and from 11% in 1980.
For the first time, a larger share of young people live in multigenerational arrangements than of Americans 85 and older.
Beyond the "sluggish job market," why else are people moving back in with mom and dad -- or never leaving?
What effect does it have on kids' independence, on their parents' lives?
Tales from the front, please.
Well in a way I'm not so sure why living with your parents is a sign of total abject failure. In many cultures (including my own) you're expected to live with them until you get married. I don't view it as a bad thing in and of itself.
But there are several reasons its happening, and I'm explaining this as someone who is in that age bracket. Student loans, no jobs, high cost of living, people who are supposed to be retired not being able to afford it, needing a masters to get a high paying job. ( a bachelors is the new high-school diploma), parents coddling and finally it's not a uniquely American phenomena. It's happening in Europe and Japan too. In fact it's ALOT worse over there.
If they are paying household bills, working, going to school I'm not so sure it affects their independence. I think alot of parents enjoy it too (mine would love it). But there are parents that hate it, and kids that do shit and start their own families.
I think most people fall in the middle.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the boomers die off.
Ppen at July 18, 2014 11:08 PM
My son graduated with a Computer Science degree into the teeth of the dot com bust. He ended up at home for a few years, until his part time job turned full time. While he was here, he saved the down payment on a house, and paid off half his student loans.
So he's a failure and we're bad parents.
MarkD at July 19, 2014 6:33 AM
There are a lot of palatial McMansions in my neighborhood, that have only one or two empty nesters living in them.
It really is a crazy waste of money.
When you add in seperate property taxes, seperate utilities, and seperate mortgages, having your own place, as a twenty something is likely to put you in the poor house, and keep you there.
I think the one or two person family home was a historical flash in the pan, largely paid for with borrowed money, that will never be recouped.
Isab at July 19, 2014 7:01 AM
I'm in my mid-20's and live alone in a 1 bedroom (with my cat), no debt, college degree, professional job.
My boyfriend travels around the country for his job 9 months out of the year and when he's home he lives with his mother. Since his parents divorced ~5 years ago, this has worked out well for both of them. He has a storage place for all of his things without paying massive rent (like I do) and when he's home he does improvements to her house, garden upkeep, taking care of her car, etc. She's a very nurturing woman, so she gets to spoil him with home cooked meals.
When I was growing up I was told that it should be a dealbreaker to date a man who is almost 30 (or older!) and lives with his parents, but I've noticed that this thinking has changed in the past 5 or so years. Part of it is the economy and the VERY high rent in my city, but I know my friends and family give my boyfriend a pass because of his travel schedule. Is it really 'living with your mom' if it's only for a 2 week stint before your next travel assignment?
I spend a ridiculous percentage of my take home pay to have my own place, but to me it is worth it. I'm introverted and need a lot of time alone to feel relaxed and happy.
I do notice that my boyfriend has more disposable cash for investing, vacations, etc. and he puts 40% of his pay into various retirement funds. I'm saving for a house downpayment but I'm severely limited in how much I can afford to save.
Frankly, I love my mother but we're like oil and water - except on fire and trying to kill each other. We disagree about religion (I'm atheist, she's hardcore Christian). We do well when we're not living together. When my brother lived at home as a 25 year old adult, my mom had her boyfriend of 3 months living with her but wouldn't let my brother's girlfriend of 3 years sleep over. *cough* double standard.
My boyfriend's mom is a very nice woman - easy to get along with. With that kind of environment, living at home as an adult doesn't seem so bad.
Zoogie2 at July 19, 2014 9:30 AM
I like everyone's comments so far.
And Miss Manners would pretty much agree with them - she's said more than once that she's puzzled and distressed by those who talk as though it's normal for American parents and children to despise each other so much that they can't wait to separate. (Of course, that doesn't mean parents should be expected to be happy about adult children who don't pay rent or who balk at moving out when ASKED to.)
Interestingly, Dr. John Rosemond (whose beliefs tend to overlap with MM's philosophies 95% of the time) DOESN'T have the same positive attitude - his belief is that your adult kids will inevitably manipulate you into being more generous than you want to be unless you've imposed every strict restriction on them from day one so that they can't wait to leave, no matter how hard they have to work to do so. As he put it in 1995:
"Speaking in Nashville recently, I asked the 500-plus people in the audience to raise their hands if they truly liked their parents. Maybe 10 hands went up, which didn’t surprise me, because I didn’t like my parents that much. I wouldn’t, for example, have chosen them as friends. They annoyed me, inconvenienced me and made me angry. Then I asked this same audience for a show of hands if they loved their parents. There may have been a few who sat with both hands in their laps, but I couldn’t locate them. Yes, I too loved my annoying, frustrating parents. But I couldn’t wait to leave home, which simply means they did a good job. They convinced me I could make a better life for myself than they were willing to make for me. And, by gosh, I did!"
BTW, check out this 2011 thread: "Would You Date Somebody Who's Living With Their Parents?"
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/05/would_you_date.html
lenona at July 19, 2014 9:52 AM
Forgot to say: I asked Judith Martin (Miss Manners) about Rosemond, maybe ten years ago at the most. She'd never heard of him. I'm guessing that's partly because his enemies are smart enough not to talk about him enough to give him a lot more publicity than he might get otherwise.
As to why he would be less popular or have more enemies than MM, I'm unsure, but one likely reason is that any 10-year-old can understand his writing style, while MM deliberately avoids that writing style so that dumb adults can't argue with her as easily as they might - or understand her in the first place. Those who do understand her writing are usually smart enough to understand her principles. Another likely reason is that Rosemond has a certain traditional masculine coldness toward children that most(?) modern male family therapists/columnists try to avoid.
lenona at July 19, 2014 10:09 AM
. Another likely reason is that Rosemond has a certain traditional masculine coldness toward children that most(?) modern male family therapists/columnists try to avoid.
Posted by: lenona at July 19, 2014 10:09 AM
I personally think we Americans would be a lot better off, if we treated children more like adults, and adults less like children.
Part of that would be agonizing a lot less about indicators like twenty something's living with their parents as some sort of social stigma, and recognizing it as financially sound behavior (like not buying a new car where you clearly can't afford one)
Isab at July 19, 2014 11:21 AM
There are a lot of palatial McMansions in my neighborhood, that have only one or two empty nesters living in them.
I have questions:
Did they raise their families there? are those mortgages paid off? if so, then that's not a waste of money. It's a potential piggy bank waiting to be sold to the highest bidder. They can then downsize, and purchase a smaller residence and pay cash for it.
Now, if they're mortgaged to the hilt, you're right, that's a net money sink. I've done the math on my own mortgage, and I have every intention of paying off a 30 year loan in 15 years, and with a bit of luck, in 10 years.
Hint: my standard deduction will be larger than my deduction if I itemize on my taxes. So no, having a mortgage doesn't do squat for me on my taxes.
Isab goes on to drill one out of the park:
I personally think we Americans would be a lot better off, if we treated children more like adults, and adults less like children.
Absolutely. Childhood isn't about being a child, it's dress rehearsal for adulthood. You can make mistakes and get a do over. Now we have 20-somethings (and older, too) who try to get mulligans.
I R A Darth Aggie at July 19, 2014 11:59 AM
"Did they raise their families there? are those mortgages paid off? if so, then that's not a waste of money. It's a potential piggy bank waiting to be sold to the highest bidder. They can then downsize, and purchase a smaller residence and pay cash for it."
Assuming you can sell your existing house, for what you have in it, and it actually yields a profit after paying mortgage interest, and real estate taxes, yes, you can.
But big houses aren't selling well these days, and jumbo mortgages are tough for younger people to get.
A lot of these people are upside down, and meanwhile, the taxes, utilities, and maintenance expenses continue.
Housing is rarely a good investment, because of the taxes, and the maintenance. Only in an inflationary market do you gain paper value, equal to what you put into it, and those gains are an illusion.
There are also substantial transaction costs in selling a house.
I own two houses. One we paid cash for, and we did it with a home equity loan on our main residence.
I would like to live in that house but it would require a substantial investment to make it as comfortable, and maintenance free as the one I live in now.
Right now, my loan is a 15 year, with ten left. I have no intention of refinancing.
My husband and I also have a home in Japan that is provided as part of his job compensation.
We would like to sell one here and buy a house over there. It would yield a pretty good return on investment the way DOD reimburses for overseas housing.
My son wants to rent out the townhouse that he owns, and move back into this house. It would be better for both of us, as this house was built with two completely separate living areas.
Isab at July 19, 2014 1:09 PM
Relative wealth seems a likely cause.
I have the impression, possibly incorrect, that until the opening of the Americas combined with the associated rise of national incomes ang affordable transport, later exacerbated by the Industrial Revolution and establishing of a banking system, then exploded by ever-cheaper transport (rail, automobile) multigeneration dwelling was the norm, at least for one offspring of each generation. Even a serf, while never able to own his cottage, would expect it to remain occupied by his family for generations.
Of course, while extreme poverty might be wgy a home passed from generation to generation, extreme wealth usually resulted in much the same. The "nobleman" with large estate[s] worked by serfs would also expect to pass the place on to family. Still, the rise of a large [I]mobile[/I] middle class not tied to a property is fairly recent.
John A at July 19, 2014 2:44 PM
I think part of it is young adults simply not knowing what young adulthood looks like, in reality. My mom would show me the (skuzzy) motel she and dad lived in while waiting for married student housing at UT back in the 60's. She'd tell me about the quonset hut they then moved into. I knew how poor they'd been for the first 10 years or so of their marriage. A lot of young people seem to think if their parents live in a nice house, they need and should be able to move into a nice house right off the bat too. They just don't grasp they're seeing 30-40 years worth of accumulated material goods and wealth.
I think generations can live together well, if all are contributing. I wuold not want to. I like my space, my privacy, and being queen of my own castle. Even if that castle is very small and not in a great area.
momof4 at July 19, 2014 5:03 PM
I spent a few years in Korea when I was in the USAF. The way a lot of the houses were setup that there was a full two or three bedrooms. Then smaller setups that are single bedrooms kitchen, etc.
So the kids live with their parents untill they graduate from primary school and they get a job or go to college and then move into the smaller apartments. That essentially allows them the independence of an adult but still keeps them close to home.
I could never live with my mother. She was diagnosed bipolar after I moved out to the USAF and also became a born again christian. We never went to church when I was growing up and saw the hypocrisy of the supposed Christians around me that I becoming an atheist.
Jim P. at July 19, 2014 7:31 PM
mmmm... I'm guessin' that this was yet another "New" thing in our society, that turns out to be quite situational.
None of my grandparents moved out before they were married, because they were all farmers and ranchers, primarily. It was practically a scandal when one of them moved across country, and away from the homestead.
My mom's gen, [early boomer] yeah, they couldn't wait to go. Same with me. But then something happened. My cohort seemed to baby their children unusually... participation ribbons, and everybody is doing well, and such.
I don't recall helicopter parents of my adolescence. But when we grew up? I have friends that just absolutely won't let thier kids do anything independantly.
It's prolly cyclical, too. We don't have occupations as much that require you to stay by the homestead, but that doesn't mean it will be easy...
SwissArmyD at July 19, 2014 10:33 PM
My first thought with the "multigenerational" households statistics was, "Well, are you including all the households with small children???"
I'm in a multigenerational household because I have kids! I am, depending on exactly who is doing the study, sometimes classed as a millennial, although I'm usually a year or two out. So, those of us who started families young (it's not vogue, but some of us still do that) might be showing up in those stats and being assumed as living with our parents instead of our kids!
As for the rest - I wanted out ASAP. I wanted freedom. That said, I don't disparage folks I know who live(d) at home to save money - especially right out of school.
However, I have known somebody who didn't move out (moved back home partway through college) and it severely hampered this person's independence. Maybe it was that the person wasn't independent to being with, I don't know for sure. The parents weren't impacted much as far as I could tell.
Shannon M. Howell at July 20, 2014 2:23 PM
I have a lot of personal experience with this phenomenon and it is being poorly described. There is no real issue with living with your parents. Especially for a short period like MarkD described. This is mainly a feature of wealth and what you can afford. It wasn't that long ago (and still happens in some places) when everyone in the family slept in the same bed. That was what most people could afford at that time. As we got richer private rooms became an option and eventually private houses. Similarly living with your parents is not a problem, but it is a common symptom of a problem.
The real issue is a failure to become an adult. Even when everyone lived in a single room home all adults were expected to contribute to the family. Most of the people who are currently living with their parents for an extended period are not paying rent, utilities, buying food. They are also not paying off debt, going to school, or otherwise improving their economic situation. The issue is not local economics. It is cultural. The real problem is not people living with their parents. It is people not contributing to their own upkeep.
I know people staying home while going to school. Others have had a bad run of luck/stupidity and are back home paying off debt or otherwise putting their lives together. For others it just makes economic sense to pool resources. None of these are a problem.
I also know people in their 30s and have never had a real job. And the tragedy will hit when when their parents pass. It doesn't matter if mom and dad leave you the house. You still have to pay taxes, utilities, food, ... Trying to find your first job at 20 is hard enough. Imagine trying it at 60.
Ben at July 20, 2014 8:59 PM
I attended a family gathering this past Sunday and my cousin is planning on attempting to move out on her own again.
I can clearly see the difference between her and my generation and I think I can identify the source of the problem.
She has way more needs that cost many than I did at the same age and has higher standards. I mean she needs internet and cell phone being two big costs. Housing also seems relatively more expensive -- around where I live the cheapest apartments are about $1200 +utility - most people have a roommate as those are 2 bedrooms (there are very few 1 bedrooms). Of course both at cars and insurance - but we got old beaters and they get a car a few years old. And don't forgot travel.
It is a lot more costly to continue the lifestyle and most parents seem willing to support it.
And student loans...I almost forgot. My last semester in college my buddy and I were going to get an apartment...even applied...he had graduated a semester before I...and he calls me one day in a panic...he student loan payments were about 10x what he expected so he bailed and lived athome.
The Former Banker at July 22, 2014 12:08 AM
momof4 got it:
I think part of it is young adults simply not knowing what young adulthood looks like, in reality. My mom would show me the (skuzzy) motel she and dad lived in while waiting for married student housing at UT back in the 60's. She'd tell me about the quonset hut they then moved into. I knew how poor they'd been for the first 10 years or so of their marriage. A lot of young people seem to think if their parents live in a nice house, they need and should be able to move into a nice house right off the bat too. They just don't grasp they're seeing 30-40 years worth of accumulated material goods and wealth.
I lived in truly icky apartments while in college. I graduated and got a nice (non-icky) but very basic apartment when I graduated. I drove an 8-year-old car my parents gave me as a graduation present, for many years.
And my parents had it even harder. They lived at one point in a trailer in Newfoundland http://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/AboutThisPlace/WeatherClimate with three little kids. I recently looked up (Google Maps street view) the house they had when I was born, and it was anything but impressive.
My nieces and nephews drive newer and higher-end cars than I do now, making the payment while on barely-minimum-wage part-time jobs. They rotate into and out of their Mom's home as jobs/boyfriends/girlfriends/apartments come and go. There's no way they can get ahead. (Food stamps help, though. *wince*)
There is a disconnect.
flbeachmom at July 23, 2014 12:04 PM
Of course both at cars and insurance - but we got old beaters and they get a car a few years old
My nieces and nephews drive newer and higher-end cars than I do now,
Racists, the only reason you think cash for clunkers was a bad idea for your family members is because you hate black people /sarc
lujlp at July 23, 2014 1:23 PM
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