What Grocery Shopping Was Like In The Soviet Union -- And Where We're Headed
Here's a video of grocery shopping under Soviet rule. Note the women smelling the disgusting stuff in packages to see if it might possibly be edible and not totally stinking rotten.
As somebody said on Twitter:
@PaulDChristian
@GuyKawasaki @amyalkon yoinks, its like someone took the safe out of Safeway
(They took just about everything out but the floor tiles.)
There are out and proud Marxists (not a huge group) and then there are the Marxist-flavored. Marxist flavoring is pervasive.
Cliff Kincaid writes at AIM, quoting Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking official ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc:
But Pacepa speaks out, saying that, in addition to the White House hiring Van Jones, he saw the Marxist agenda at work in the agenda of the White House and the Democrat-controlled Congress during Obama's first two years, when they "began dutifully following in Marx's footsteps by redistributing our country's wealth and putting under government control a part of its health care, banking system, and automobile industry." His observation is this regard is not unique, but Pacepa goes further, citing evidence of how planks in the Communist Manifesto parallel the Obama legislative agenda. Yet, Romney doesn't want to call Obama a socialist because of what the liberal media will say about the charge.
Of course, under the redistribution of wealth, everybody is equal, but the people in power and people with connections are, uh, more equal.
Pacepa writes at PJM:
Economic determinism is a theory of survival rooted in Marx's Manifesto (another theory of survival), but it pretends that the economic organization of a society, not the socialist class war and the socialist redistribution of wealth, determines the nature of all other aspects of its life. Over the years, economic determinism has assumed different names. Khrushchev's dogonyat i peregonyat (catching up with and overtaking the West in ten years) and Gorbachev's perestroika are the best known.I wrote the script of Ceausescu's determinism, which was hidden behind the nickname "New Economic Order." Most Americans, who are not used to dealing with undercover Marxists, have problems recognizing one. In April 1978, President Carter hailed Ceausescu as a "great national and international leader who [had] taken on a role of leadership in the entire international community." At the time, I was standing next to Ceausescu at the White House, and I just smiled.
Three months later, I was granted political asylum in the United States, and I informed President Carter how Ceausescu had been feeding him a pack of lies. The admiration for Ceausescu's undercover Marxism had, however, taken on such a life of its own that the U.S. Congress, dominated by President Carter's Democratic Party, brought the United States a sui-generis version of Ceausescu's economic determinism. That move generated double-digit inflation. The U.S. prime rate hit 21.5%, the highest in U.S. history, and people had to spend long hours in line waiting to buy gas for their cars.
...In my other life I was involved in the process of spreading the destructive virus of Marxism disguised as benign economic determinism, and I have a few thoughts about how that veiled virus can be stopped from further infecting the United States. American essayist George Santayana, an immigrant like me, used to say that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Speech codes on campuses -- along with the push to force professors to give "trigger warnings" and other ways speech is becoming less free -- are other ways there's creep of Soviet-style into America.
The monitoring of citizens is another.
The use of "civil asset forfeiture" -- a euphemism for the government seizing your stuff without cause -- is another.
Presidential "signing statements" are another.
And finally, the demands to provide your papers sans probable cause -- one of the hallmarks of an unfree country -- is yet another.
There is increasing power of government over us and little to stop it.
But few notice or notice the cumulative effect of all these rights erosions. And in that, we are in serious trouble.
"Yet, Romney doesn't want to call Obama a socialist because of what the liberal media will say about the charge."
This is Trump's appeal in a nutshell. There is little question that Trump will say things that are very unpopular with the media but that resonate with the rank and file.
"Most Americans, who are not used to dealing with undercover Marxists, have problems recognizing one."
Obviously so did Mr. Pacepa. He didn't recognize Carter is one of them.
Ben at January 4, 2016 9:42 AM
It was an oil embargo in '73 that had us waiting in line for gas.
I believe I would shoot all environmentalists that have prevented us from being energy independent before I shot all lawyers.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1969-1976/oil-embargo
Bob in Texas at January 4, 2016 10:51 AM
alarmingnews.com/2012/07/23/34-glorious-american-years/
34 glorious, American years
Karol Sheinin is a proud Russian immigrant to the US:
=== ===
[edited] Many Soviet Jews immigrated to America around 1977. Soviet propaganda tried limiting this with a rumor that life in America is so terrible that the old people eat cat food. People didn’t quite get it. They have food specifically made for cats? What a country!
=== ===
Andrew_M_Garland at January 4, 2016 12:56 PM
As a patriotic American, I feel ashamed of our imperialist and paranoid outlook on the rest of the world. We embarrass ourselves on the world stage. Maybe we should pay attention how most other countries handle difficult issues. We could make more progress if we could line up redneck Texans and all republicans before a firing squad.
Casa Bona at January 4, 2016 2:28 PM
We could make more progress if we could line up redneck Texans and all republicans before a firing squad. - Casa Bona
How so? Democrats have had control of the federal government 75% of the time over the last eighty years.
When have republicans ever held power long enough to be responsible for all of Americas woes?
lujlp at January 4, 2016 2:42 PM
Shorter Casa Bona: "As a patriotic American, I advocate killing people who disagree with me."
Blogdog at January 4, 2016 2:50 PM
Along the lines of Andrew's link.. I just happened to see this linked this weekend:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3z3356/serious_immigrants_to_america_what_was_the_most/
It's interesting to see people who were amazed at stuff that we all take for granted.
Miguelitosd at January 4, 2016 3:42 PM
I just want to point out that Ben, on this board, has socialist leanings. He wrote the following in response to a different article on December 30: "If the government wishes services to be provided in that area it should provide them" -- the reference is to a rest stop (you know, a gas station and restaurant).
Ben also failed to respond to my previous request that he provide a reference to his assertion that the lesbians (discriminated against by bakers) were friends - you know, because the ruling stated in its findings of fact that the baker didn't know the plaintiff was a lesbian until the cake testing.
Anyway, Amy, sorry that I'm co-opting this thread for another matter. But I just wanted to show the board that (i) Conan the Grammarian maybe had a point when he asserted that it was important to me that the board agree with me that the homophobic bakers were jerks and (ii) I wanted to make sure that I got back to Ben, with an answer to the following question that he posed to me, namely: "As for the cake makers cleaning up, doesn't sound like it. How much were their legal fees?" So, I'm reposting this entry so that they can be sure to read it:
Well, I'm like a dog with a bone (or I have too much time on my hands), that I felt I should add a little bit more information about this situation in case anyone else will ever read this:
I did further investigation as to the amount of crowdfunding.
According to the Wonkette article I read (and linked to - see above), the bakers raised $109,000 on Go Fund Me before it was shut down. I checked out the "Continue to Give" crowdfunding site and learned that the bakers' goal was to raise $150,000. So, the bakers were seeking a total of $259,000. So, based on these figures (and the the judgment was for $136,000), the bakers' legal bills totaled approximately $123,000 (259,000 - 136,000). This seems like a more than reasonable figure to me - since their lawyers were, upon my investigation, a local solo practitioner and a 3-person law firm (one partner, 2 associates) - you know, as opposed to Oregon's priciest law firms - and this case was tried by an administrative judge (as opposed to a civil court, in front of jury, with far stricter civil procedures -- i.e., they're most costly).
See https://www.continuetogive.com/4811392
Now, according to the "Continue to Give Site", the bakers reached 278% of their stated goal of $150,000 (i.e., they raised $417,000 from that crowdfunding site) - so, combined with the $109,000 previously raised, the bakers earned a WHOPPING TOTAL OF $526,000 through crowdfunding.
So, assuming that the $259,000 figure I came up with above covers the judgment and legal bills, THE BAKERS WERE ABLE TO POCKET $267,000 - MEANING THAT THE BAKERS WERE ABLE TO MAKE ALMOST DOUBLE OF WHAT THE LESBIANS ACTUALLY RECEIVED.
Now, this case has been completely adjudicated. The bakers have paid the full amount - thereby signifying that they will not appeal the ruling to any higher court - especially considering that they had initially refused to pay the initial judgment at all (which is why the court garnished the $7,000 from their bank account in the first place). THE CONTINUE TO GIVE SITE IS STILL ACTIVE (i.e., people can still contribute) - but there is no indication on the site (as of today) telling potential contributors that the legal case is completely over or what exactly the bakers are going to do with the excess funds (since all the judgment and legal bills have been paid) ("Failure to Disclose").
Now, because the baker quoted Leviticus when he told the lesbian's mother that her gay children were abominations, I think it's safe to assume the bakers were of the Judeo-Christian persuasion ("Deeply Held Religious Beliefs"). Out of curiosity, I wonder if, by engaging in the Failure to Disclose, the bakers are engaging in "theft" as prohibited by the Ten Commandments that is included in their Deeply Held Religious Beliefs? I think so!
In addition, the bakers are now operating their business from their home - they take online orders. I checked out their website -- http://www.sweetcakesweb.com/.
Now, just because they aren't operating their bakery out of a store, does not mean that they are still not subject to Oregon law (as their home is in Oregon), so they are still subject to Oregon's anti-discrimination laws. So, especially as illustrated by the ruling, the bakers would not be able to ask online shoppers if the cake is for a gay wedding and then refuse to fill the order. And, a perusal of their website confirms that there is no section asking customers what they intend to do with the bakers' products.
Now, because the bakers have elected to continue to operate a baking business in Oregon and because they can't discriminate against gay weddings, I think it's safe to assume that, at least according to the bakers, IT IS NOT A VIOLATION OF BAKERS' DEEPLY HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO MAKE CAKES FOR GAY WEDDINGS AFTER ALL - WELL, AS LONG THE BAKERS DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CAKES ARE BEING USED FOR. I mean, if it providing cakes for gay weddings did violate their Deeply Held Religious Beliefs, they would simply have to get out of the bakery business entirely. Am I right?
Now, it really wasn't my initial intention to delve so deeply into this case, to pass judgment on the lesbians or the bakers, etc. But after doing so, I'll just offer my opinion on these bakers. YES, THEY ARE JERKS (I'M USING YOUR WORD, CONAN). THEY ARE THIEVES FOR NOT SHUTTING DOWN THE CROWDFUNDING SITE WHEN THEY RAISED ENOUGH MONEY AND FOR THEIR SUBSEQUENT FAILURE TO DISCLOSE AND FOR CONTINUING TO ACCEPT DONATIONS WHEN THE WHOLE AFFAIR IS OVER. THEY ARE HYPOCRITES WHO VIOLATE THEIR OWN SO-CALLED DEEPLY HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEFS BY (1) ENGAGING IN THEFT AND (2) CONTINUING TO OPERATE A BAKERY BUSINESS GIVEN THAT THEIR CAKES CAN BE USED FOR GAY WEDDINGS AFTER ALL.
Just my final 2 cents on this matter. :)
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 4:41 PM
@CapsAreCaps:
I have found that seizing people by the lapels and screaming in their faces seldom changes their mind. However, it works fine for purpose of virtue signalling. So there's that. You are just *so* much better than those deranged h8rs. Yes you are! Good boy!
Pfaugh!
phunctor at January 4, 2016 4:50 PM
factsarefacts meet Casa Bona (whom I believe is an Environmental Lawyer that likes the government having guns but not citizens).
I think youse guys have lots of things to share.
Bob in Texas at January 4, 2016 5:05 PM
As a patriotic American, I feel ashamed of our imperialist and paranoid outlook on the rest of the world. We embarrass ourselves on the world stage. Maybe we should pay attention how most other countries handle difficult issues. We could make more progress if we could line up redneck Texans and all republicans before a firing squad.
Posted by: Casa Bona at January 4, 2016 2:28 PM
Me too. I wish we could be more like Japan. It has the death penalty, which is carried out with no appeal, no publicity, and no notice. (Sarc)
Not the difficult issue you had in mind? Pick another, and tell me straight forwardly, which country you think does a much better job handling *difficult issues* actually any issue than the U.S.
After that, tell me why you haven't already moved there.
I was playing at the ACBL national tournament down in Denver in early December.
Ended up chatting with one of my opponents who had moved to Costa Rica at the beginning of the first Gulf war.
She told me, they didn't like the *Militaristic policies* of the US when they went in to Kuwait and Iraq.
(I guess they failed to notice the thousands of US soldiers in Europe and Asia from 1942 through 1990)
After that she she blathered on about how marvelous the universal socialized medical care was in Costa Rica.
Followed by the comment that she and her husband always flew back to the US for any treatment, because the system was so overburdened that it was impossible to get in to see a doctor.
It was an eye opener. I didn't actually believe there were people walking around who could be that clueless.
Didn't the practice of routine frontal lobotomies end in the fifties.....?
Isab at January 4, 2016 5:21 PM
Phunctor wrote: "@CapsAreCaps:
I have found that seizing people by the lapels and screaming in their faces seldom changes their mind. However, it works fine for purpose of virtue signalling. So there's that. You are just *so* much better than those deranged h8rs. Yes you are! Good boy!
Pfaugh!"
Honey, to be honest, I don't give really give a crap if anyone on this board agrees with me or not. Nor am I remotely virtuous. Your word "deranged" would be perfectly apt to describe me at this moment - as I'm simply resorting to good old-fashioned trolling because I'm pissed off. No more, no less. PS: And my words do comprise my "deeply held religious beliefs" -- you know, so they absolutely deserve to be respected by you and everyone else on the board -- you know - cause this is America, and stuff like that. LOL
Pfaugh!
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 5:48 PM
Oh, and PS: I agree with your statement that "I have found that seizing people by the lapels and screaming in their faces seldom changes their mind." I've also found that pointing out facts that others may not be aware of rarely works. I've found that asking for factual backup for others' assertions rarely works as well - they just stammer or run away or never even admit to a factual mistake. And boy, I've discovered that you're really asking way too much when you ask someone to do their own research (like, actually read a court decision on a case in order to glean the facts) before forming an opinion.
Anyway, nice chatting with you.
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 6:00 PM
I was thoroughly enjoying the grocery shopping in Russia and then my whole train of thought gets hijacked and off-kiltered like I've just binge watched The Man in the High Castle. Take your off-topics to the links page or something. omg.
gooseegg at January 4, 2016 6:09 PM
gooseegg: You wrote: "Take your off-topics to the links page or something. omg."
I think I need to inform that doing so would violate my "deeply held religious beliefs", which, be self-definition, must be respected at all costs by absolutely everyone else - regardless of how illogical or rude (or even illegal) it may appear.
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 6:14 PM
gooseegg: You wrote: "Take your off-topics to the links page or something. omg."
I think I need to inform that doing so would violate my "deeply held religious beliefs", which, be self-definition, must be respected at all costs by absolutely everyone else - regardless of how illogical or rude (or even illegal) it may appear.
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 6:16 PM
At least the replies after the first screed above didn't start nearly every paragraph with "Now,"
Man that just stood out to me when I (tried to) read (most of) the screed.
Miguelitosd at January 4, 2016 6:43 PM
Thank you, Miguelitosd.
In accordance with my deeply held religious beliefs, I am obligated to accept valid literary and grammatical criticism. You comments are appreciated, and you will be rewarded in Heaven with an extra widget.
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 6:49 PM
FrF,
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Meh.
Ben at January 4, 2016 7:21 PM
Miguel, loved the link about the immigrants. Laughed, cried.
gooseegg at January 4, 2016 7:36 PM
Oh, hey, Ben. Glad, you're acknowledging my stuff.
Are you still working on finding a link to an article to back up your assertion that the lesbians and the bakers were friends (you know, such assertion that wasn't remotely reflected in the "findings of fact" by the adjudicator in the ruling that Amy linked to)? Remember my polite request? Remember that Conan relied on your assertion that they were friends, so he could pen the following for the whole board to read:
"So, they're upset that they didn't know their baker friends well enough to know they were devoutly religious and then asked those friends to violate their religious strictures for them, which those friends refused to do?
Because it's all about you and your newly-legal wedding. So, pitch a temper tantrum when friends refuse to violate their deeply-held religious values for you and sue them into bankruptcy. What good friends these bakers had."
I'M STILL WAITING for your back-up information. Or, is it against your "deeply held religious beliefs" to acknowledge that you lied to the entire board? According to the deeply held religious beliefs of followers of the Judeo-Christian tradition (you know, like those lovely bakers, did you read my post, the 10 Commandments, heard of the prohibition against committing false witness?, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah), you may be deemed an abomination! Hey, maybe the appropriate punishment should be publication of your home address and phone number by those lovely bakers, and you can receive death threats against yourself and your family, and an adoption agency can threaten to thwart your attempts to adopt the 2 foster children who have been under your care for the past two years (because - that's what happened to those "eggshell" lesbians in this particular case). Would that be OK? Would that be legal? Would that be ethical? Would you suffer great stress from such a thing?
As an aside, I think it's very rude of you not to do the research that I asked of you. I performed a lot of research (and did actual math) to answer your question of: "How much were [the bakers'] legal fees?" The answer is up to $123,000.
I also did research based on your statement that "As for the cake makers cleaning up, doesn't sound like it" to show that the bakers pocketed at least $267,000, and can still pocket even more. Just my opinion - but I disagree with you - I think those bakers cleaned up BIG TIME. Hey, I am happy for them - I'm sure they used some of those funds to expand their home's kitchen, so that they can meet all of their online customers' demands for cakes (even those of any lesbians who are ordering a cake for their newly legal weddings). :)
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 8:39 PM
Oh, hey, Ben. Glad, you're acknowledging my stuff.
Are you still working on finding a link to an article to back up your assertion that the lesbians and the bakers were friends (you know, such assertion that wasn't remotely reflected in the "findings of fact" by the adjudicator in the ruling that Amy linked to)? Remember my polite request? Remember that Conan relied on your assertion that they were friends, so he could pen the following for the whole board to read:
"So, they're upset that they didn't know their baker friends well enough to know they were devoutly religious and then asked those friends to violate their religious strictures for them, which those friends refused to do?
Because it's all about you and your newly-legal wedding. So, pitch a temper tantrum when friends refuse to violate their deeply-held religious values for you and sue them into bankruptcy. What good friends these bakers had."
I'M STILL WAITING for your back-up information. Or, is it against your "deeply held religious beliefs" to acknowledge that you lied to the entire board? According to the deeply held religious beliefs of followers of the Judeo-Christian tradition (you know, like those lovely bakers, did you read my post, the 10 Commandments, heard of the prohibition against committing false witness?, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah), you may be deemed an abomination! Hey, maybe the appropriate punishment should be publication of your home address and phone number by those lovely bakers, and you can receive death threats against yourself and your family, and an adoption agency can threaten to thwart your attempts to adopt the 2 foster children who have been under your care for the past two years (because - that's what happened to those "eggshell" lesbians in this particular case). Would that be OK? Would that be legal? Would that be ethical? Would you suffer great stress from such a thing?
As an aside, I think it's very rude of you not to do the research that I asked of you. I performed a lot of research (and did actual math) to answer your question of: "How much were [the bakers'] legal fees?" The answer is up to $123,000.
I also did research based on your statement that "As for the cake makers cleaning up, doesn't sound like it" to show that the bakers pocketed at least $267,000, and can still pocket even more. Just my opinion - but I disagree with you - I think those bakers cleaned up BIG TIME. Hey, I am happy for them - I'm sure they used some of those funds to expand their home's kitchen, so that they can meet all of their online customers' demands for cakes (even those of any lesbians who are ordering a cake for their newly legal weddings). :)
factsarefacts at January 4, 2016 8:41 PM
CrazyRCrazy,
I could not find anything to back up my recollection the bakers and lesbians were friends. My brain may be faulty or the press may have lied. Either way, I am too lazy and my googlefu too weak to dig anything up prior to 2015.
Either way, it is moot. I dropped out of the previous discussion because I was being silly. I shouldn't have mentioned the friends thing period. It did not support my point. Being incorrect on it doesn't undermine my point either.
Also, It became clear you were not only not open to persuasion or education but would accept nothing but full conversion and support from everyone. So, InsecureRInsecure, why are you so bothered you become deranged (your phrasing) when some stranger on the internet disagrees with you?
And the insults? Seriously, LiesRLies? The Kim Davis, the Socialist, the Religious Belief? This is the best you can do? It may take some work, and maybe the support of your peers, but I have faith in you. You too can learn to insult like an adult.
I expect this is the last I'll respond to you. It is not a productive exercise.
Ben at January 5, 2016 6:38 AM
Perhaps alone among your fans, I have actually been to the Soviet Union.
It sucked beyond words.
Seriously. Words do not suffice to explain how awful the USSR was. Soul crushingly awful.
Jeff Guinn at January 5, 2016 8:57 AM
Why just redneck Texans? What about rednecks in other states? Or non-redneck Texans?
Why don't you just shoot them all? Isn't that how most left-wing revolutions handle their political opponents?
=========================
The Turks sure handled that Armenian issue.
And those Russian pogroms against the Jews? Classic.
And Europe is so peaceful now. You'd never guess one of FDR's goals for World War II was to disarm the Europeans because in the 100 years prior to that war, Europeans had engaged in several bloody wars, often dragging non-Europeans into them:
Since World War II, those pesky Europeans haven't lost their taste for blood:
How about that recent Russian invasion of the Crimea? Or the French intervention in Mali? Or the fighting in the Ukraine?
And don't forget how the Asians and Arabs handle their difficult issues.
Yes, by all means, let's handle our difficult issues the way other countries do.
Casa, you're so blind with America-hate that you can't see we actually handle difficult issues better here than almost anywhere else. You've idealized other places because "they" do things better. But you don't take the time to actually know "them."
Conan the Grammarian at January 5, 2016 3:35 PM
When Boris Yeltsin went to Randall's:
http://blog.chron.com/thetexican/2014/04/when-boris-yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-clear-lake/
Conan the Grammarian at January 5, 2016 3:37 PM
FrF: "Are you still working on finding a link to an article to back up your assertion that the lesbians and the bakers were friends..."
I don't understand. What difference does it make whether they were friends or not? Why would they want to ruin another person over a cake?
If I wanted Christmas cookies and a Muslim baker declined to make them because it's against his beliefs, I would shrug my shoulders and go somewhere else. Even if he said to me that all Christians are the evil spawn of Satan, it would never even cross my mind to try to ruin his and his family's life over it.
If, because of the Muslim baker's refusal, I “felt depressed and questioned whether there was something inherently wrong with the sexual orientation [I] was born with” and I had “difficulty controlling [my] emotions and cried a lot”, or I “experienced extreme anger, outrage, embarrassment, exhaustion, frustration, intense sorrow and shame” as the as the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry's ruling said the lesbian women did, I would think that was a very abnormal reaction to the situation, and something I needed to get treatment for, not something the Muslim baker was at fault and should be punished for. And I think pretty much everyone would agree with that.
I don't understand how such hatred can rise up in someone over something so trivial as another person's refusal to bake them a cake - hatred so strong that it would motivate them to ruin the other person's life.
Ken R at January 6, 2016 7:59 AM
Compare grocery shopping in the USSR, as shown in the video above, with grocery shopping in Russia today, 20 years after the collapse of the socialist paradise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmZxiIv8mA
Ken R at January 6, 2016 8:03 AM
So many bigots and racists on here! No wonder Americans are despised the world over. How did we get like this??
Casa Bona at January 8, 2016 6:41 PM
"You're a bigot." = "You don't agree with me."
And thank you for speaking for "the world over." I'm sure they appreciate you letting us know they despise us. We'll immediately set to cleaning up our act and living up to the rest of the world's standards. Let beheadings begin! And line up the homosexuals so we can throw them off tall buildings.
Conan the Grammarian at January 9, 2016 11:10 AM
All, that proves it. Capitalism sucks. Socialism rules.
After all, who needs a grocery store with so many choices? Just give the people some Solyent Green.
Conan the Grammarian at January 9, 2016 11:30 AM
OMG. I hope this blog is not read by non-Americans :(
Casa Bona at January 10, 2016 12:55 PM
Why not? Others have just as much a right to know how fantastically wrong your ideas are.
And I'm pretty sure those other countries Conan cited know how they screwed up.
Radwaste at January 11, 2016 8:21 AM
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