The problem as I see it is NOT w/Islam or any other belief system.

The problem w/our current situation is not forcing assimilation using the broken windows/profiling technique.

It's w/ignoring who/where is teaching hate in Mosques/schools as if that's different from any other extremist group.

Profiling is our friend and applying existing laws quickly and fairly (which means the blind sheik gets way too many breaks) is what we CAN DO. We can not stop stupid people from being stupid people.

Yes Yes we did force native cultures to abandon their native traditions and go to "white man's schools" and that is supposedly awful (blah blah blah). Well tough.

In the real world if you want to work and live off of your wages you need to at least speak the language and look "presentable". That's a fact Jack!

Our real problem is not forcing assimilation.

Don't attend language school and pass, you don't pass GO and you exit to wherever WE decide you came from (believe it's England that can not send people back 'home' because they won't tell them where 'home' is. Ha Ha!).

I know awful and heavy-handed. Well, I do know that 15 - 25 year old males are stupid testosterone driven beings who can't sit still and are looking for fun/trouble/tribe so deal with it don't ignore it.

Force them to learn a trade and how to "fit in". If they refuse send them to their "I identify with home" country and give our money/support to someone else in line. There will always be problems but at least I can control "which problems" I throw money/time towards.

Sorry for the long post but as you know by now - coffee - need more coffee.

Curtis LeMay is supposed to have said:

I'll tell you what war is about, you've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough they stop fighting.

Which works both ways. At which point will Europe lay down their arms and convert to Islam? when they wake up one morning to discover that they're now a minority in their own country, and that by referendum Sharia will be imposed upon them?

Remember, for the jihadi's, that's too long a wait. So the killings will continue apace.

And if you think this is merely unassimilated people, I give you the Lahore Easter bombing. It has little to do with assimilation.

World domination, on the other hand...

Amy is very concerned because Islam, which is a potent source of you should know about this as much as she does or at least says she does, and you don't, and if you only did it would break your heart so believe-you-me, she says, and this has been going on for years so she says that means she really knows it more, and that much is really indisputable.

This is demented.

Crid, I explain in detail the problems making Islam such a sticky ideology, such as abrogation (how the passages in the later, Medina section of the Quran, when Mohammed gained power, erase the earlier more peacey-weacey ones).

What you do, on the other hand, is mock me over Islam with no real basis for your mocking.

I AM informed about Islam -- and have become informed through more than a decade of reading in and about it.

I suggest you start reading rather than just mocking me on what you have no knowledge or understanding of.

No, Amy, the thing you "explain in detail" is that you have special insight that other people don't have. That's where this ends. Other than that, you're quoting failed convert promoters as if they were experts.

> mock me over Islam

It's like you figured out the word "Islam" was going to be very popular for the next few decades, and you want to say it a lot early, striking a pose before the traffic starts in full.

Indonesia, Amy... Sunni or Shia? No fair peeking. Sudan?

Maybe you need to meet some Muslim neighbors, Amy.

Here's an excerpt from some deal I read from the University of California Press:

But some people here do not yet understand Islam, let alone shari'a. Let me give you an example. I was with my father when he was in the hospital before he died. He had come to settle in Los Angeles thirty years earlier with my mother as immigrants from Iran. They started a business here together. It's now a decades-old family business not far from Griffith Park. So there I was with my father at the hospital and, at one point, I asked the hospital staff if they could lend me a copy of the Qur'an so that I may pray. They only had Christian books, they said. ''No one has donated any copies of the Qur'an to our hospital.'' So I went back home and returned to the hospital with my personal copy so that I could pray at my father's bedside. After he died, I left my copy of the Qur'an with the hospital staff. I hope to purchase and donate ten more copies to them.

My parents are actually secular Iranians and never wanted any of their daughters to wear the veil. But two years after I took my shahada, I began to wear the veil. At that time my mother asked me, ''Can't you be Christian, Jewish, or something else?'' She and my father had escaped the mullahs of Iran in search of freedom, she told me. To think, I used to be an atheist. She worried I would become like the mullah in their household. I wore the veil because Muslims are misrepresented in the media and I was motivated by my hope that Californians would perceive my niceness and not just my hijab.

On the other hand, I have Muslim acquaintances who are hypocritical d-bags. One of which went to effort to make a music/story video wherein the humble, chaste Muslim is ridiculed for not fitting in with customs of mistletoe and alcohol at a neighbor's Christmas party.

The sound and editing is good but the story is idiotic, considering my Muslim acquaintance's marriage ending in divorce because of cocaine/ alcohol use and extra-marital affairs.

To think, I used to be an atheist. She worried I would become like the mullah in their household. I wore the veil because Muslims are misrepresented in the media and I was motivated by my hope that Californians would perceive my niceness and not just my hijab.

At which point will this nice person, who wants to be judged by her niceness not her hijab take up the sword and kill the Jew and the apostate as commanded by Allah?

A command from Allah. Who is she to refuse?

I've left this comment before, it bears repeating:

The problem with Christianity is that there are too few believers who try to emulate Christ.

The problem with Islam is that there are too many believers who try to emulate Muhammed.

At which point will this nice person, who wants to be judged by her niceness not her hijab take up the sword and kill the Jew and the apostate as commanded by Allah?

Well, yeah, she did knife her father to death in the hospital because he was secular Iranian. She isn't very nice at all.

Islam is a mental virus, what we used to call a "meme" (but now the meaning of that word has shifted). Unlike all of the world's other major religions, it has little stated purpose beyond perpetrating and expanding its own existence. Other religions proselytize and seek converts, but they do so in the belief (mistaken or not) that they are making a path for people to reach a higher plane of moral existence. Islam contains no such pretense. Muslims seek converts because that's what they are commanded to do. No other reason.

And unlike the other major religions, Islam grants its devout permission to be hypocrites. There's very much a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do aspect to Islam. Not to say that other religions don't have hypocrites, but it is usually very much frowned upon, and those who behave that way are often shamed and ostracized when their behavior is exposed. In Islam, it seems to generally go unremarked upon, and sometimes celebrated as proof of their deity's superiority. This sort of makes sense for a viral belief system; in the sort of Hobbesian world that Islam tends to create, moral consistency serves no purpose and it might be a strategic weakness.

So many things are not as we wish them to be. It used to be that adults knew the difference.

Here's the link to the thing. Read and learn:

https://www.kcet.org/shows/departures/voices-of-islam-in-california-rethinking-sharia

" Back in 2008, California voters were deciding whether or not to repeal the law that allowed same-sex marriage. It was called Proposition 8. I was planning to vote yes, which would have repealed that law and banned gay marriage. But I realized that, before I vote, I should educate myself on what my religion says I should do. So I looked more into shari'a. After much study, I realized that, no, ''Islamically,'' voting yes is not the right thing to do.

I reread parts of the Qur'an and I listened to online sheikhs who spoke about justice. I prayed and thought about it in the car on my way to and from work. I had a lot of time, you know, sitting in traffic on the long commute on the 405 jammed with cars between Long Beach and Orange County. My imam, too, has spoken of the importance of living out principles of justice and equality that are central to shari'a. And I thought, hey, that's what shari'a is."

"No, Amy, the thing you "explain in detail" is that you have special insight that other people don't have."

Duuude! You made this claim about me when I was talking about my job - and when I made no such claim, because it was obvious to me that others have been trained to do my job. What the hell is "special insight" when the references are named so that you could read them, too?

Other people DO know things you don't - and in this case, it's pretty clear what Amy's position is...

What's yours? Nobody's holding you back from offering counterclaims. Note that I have refrained from suggesting what those might be? It's your turn. It always has been, even though it's not your blog!

Explain why Amy and - similarly - Brigitte are wrong, please.

Victims of terrorist attacks in Western Europe

They just give their consumers what they seem to want.

> It's your turn.

Attention Span Theater, we call this.

About 1,940 results (0.33 seconds)

About 1,190 results (0.54 seconds)

> Islam is a mental virus, what
> we used to call a "meme"

It's darling that youse guyz need a totally with-it and up-to-date index of jargon to describe your distance from this, like, totally unprecedented expression of human nature.

Never seen anything like that before, boy...

...No sirree.

So then you admit there is a problem crid?

If you admit there is a problem why ridicule Amy for pointing it out?

"Never seen anything like that before, boy..."

You can do better than this, Crid. Gainsaying isn't an argument. Tell us about your vision of Islam. What do you see it as?

So then you admit there is a problem crid?

If you admit there is a problem why ridicule Amy for pointing it out?

lujlp at March 30, 2016 7:28 AM
Two reasons.
1. She has been monomaniacal about it.

2. Because no thinking person who has studied any history thinks the root problem is Islam.

It's a complicated problem with a barbaric culture

Those barbaric Persian and Arab cultures have shaped Islam into a fundamentalist death cult with oil money.

An insular Arab Persian elite (only a few of which are actual believers )direct their dispossessed against the west in order to save their own skins and their own privileges.

Much as Htler scapegoated the Jews, the Jews, and western secular democracy are now the scapegoats for the intractable problems and gut wrenching poverty of the Arab/Persian world.

Attacking Islam in general with a billion of them on the planet doesn't get you anywhere. It's populist clap trap.

Well, that, plus... I'm all like Heyzoos Fucking Kreestoh, do you fuckers even know how to read? You can't seem to have comprehended any of the words that I've typed into this goddamn blog in this year or any other. These posts have the magical power to cleanse your memory as you load the next page. The meaning of the words on THIS PAGE are vanishing from your consciousness even as you read this sentence! POOF! Haha!

> Explain why Amy and - similarly -
> Brigitte are wrong, please.

> So then you admit there is
> a problem crid?

> Tell us about your vision
> of Islam.

You guys can't even offer your own points of argument... You want me to do your homework! Yet no matter how engagingly the material is presented before you, you want to drop into a barrel, get sealed insde, and spazz away your time in brine of fear and ignorance.

This is pathetic. It offends on a personal level. Amy, as with no other topic ever presented, has decided that her fondness for shallow texts has somehow ennobled her with doctorate-level insight about an enormous topic. This expertise melts at the first challenge (say, the Sudan). She's been comically obsessive (and naive) about trivia in the past (Helllooo, Dr. Singh!), but never so obnoxiously.

(Hey Amy-- You never got back to us about Indonesia... It's like your compelling expertise on this never has anything to do with people... And there are a lot of them.)

Religious studies, like diet, French history and even fashion, is an entirely worthwhile field for learned investigation. But these handjobby postings seem to have infect some of you with the notion that it's okay to be superficial and smirky about Islam. {'Memes! Don't you see?')



Yes... Yes I do... I love being right about this.

> You can do better than this

Go fuck yourself.

[Bob in Texas:] The problem as I see it is NOT w/Islam or any other belief system.

I think you are wrong. If the problem wasn't Islam, then these horror shows would be happening all over the place all the time, with all manner of belief systems urging them on.

But that isn't the case. Assimilation that has worked, at least reasonably well with all manner of people has strikingly failed with Muslims, even in Islamic countries.

If Muslims en masse were to adopt any other extant religion tonight, by next week the newspapers would be empty.

[Crid:] Hey Amy-- You never got back to us about Indonesia... It's like your compelling expertise on this never has anything to do with people... And there are a lot of them.

Why should she? As wholly irrelevant questions go, that one is tough to beat.

The architects of the latest Belgian atrocities, Shia or Sunni?

But these handjobby postings seem to have infect some of you with the notion that it's okay to be superficial and smirky about Islam.

Struggling to figure out why discussing the death cult aspects unique to Islam should ever be off limits to anyone.

And failing.

". If the problem wasn't Islam, then these horror shows would be happening all over the place all the time, with all manner of belief systems urging them on."

They have been. You just have a selective bias of only seeing what has been reported in the western press for the last 25 years or so.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bombings_during_the_Northern_Ireland_Troubles_and_peace_process

Isb, the "root" problem is always the same in EVERY conflict.

Overpopulation.

Religion is one of the few ideological forces that supersede nation state group identity in getting people to act in concert.

Until such time people are rational enough to limit their breeding, or coldly calculating enough to call for mass exterminations of people unwilling to play nice with modern societies, the only reasonable course of action is to attack the validity of the ideology that encourages people to murder those that have never done them any harm.

They have been. You just have a selective bias of only seeing what has been reported in the western press for the last 25 years or so.

No, I have the selective bias of reality.

Invoking the Irish troubles makes no sense (just as ETA or the Tamil Tigers would make no sense). All were very local in scope. Also, in the case of the IRA, religion was the cause, not the reason.

Islamism, because it is supremacist and universalist, is global.

> Why should she?

So, like, you agree that she doesn't know "all about" Islam, specifically, the beliefs of its adherents. Okay then.

> Islamism, because it is supremacist
> and universalist, is global.

I don't remember any Christians, certainly not the violent Irish types, affirming a limited scope to the regency of their Savior, but if you say so...

Very well! You too affirm that the world has never seen anything like Islam.

Good luck out there!

'Writing about Islam in the West' was the topic, right?

So, like, you agree that she doesn't know "all about" Islam, specifically, the beliefs of its adherents. Okay then.

No, I, like, don't agree that particular factoid, to a non-Muslim, is anything more than a distinction without difference.

Of course, if you can demonstrate otherwise, then you might have a point.

Good luck.

I don't remember any Christians, certainly not the violent Irish types, affirming a limited scope to the regency of their Savior, but if you say so...

Then you don't remember that the scope of the conflict was limited almost, if not entirely completely, to Northern Ireland and the UK.

Or, apparently, that the conflict was political, not religious. (That is, the conflict had its roots in religion, but the goal -- reunification of Ireland, was political.)

Odd that you ping Amy on her ignorance, while being completely at sea about the IRA.

Very well! You too affirm that the world has never seen anything like Islam.

I did? Where?

"Or, apparently, that the conflict was political, not religious. (That is, the conflict had its roots in religion, but the goal -- reunification of Ireland, was political.)"

So you are saying the goals of ISIS are not political?

I know you are looking for a way to parse this, but you are failing.

As Crid says, good luck out there!

So you are saying the goals of ISIS are not political?

If by political, you mean the establishment of a sharia caliphate and the murder or conversion of every non believer within that caliphate, and the hope of expanding that caliphate to cover the entire world, then, yes, I suppose that is political.

However, equating that, even glancingly with the IRA, whose only goal was the reunification of Ireland, and was satisfied with far less, is a sign of ignorance far more fundamental than Amy's about the proportion of Sufi, Sunni, Shia and Wahabi in Indonesia.

But never mind that.

Why the heck does that distribution matter?

I have more to say about this, and it will offend hurt your feelings in the best possible way, but I have to go to work. So be sure and check back later. (Always being right about things means there's never any rush.)