More shitty parenting by the most self-beleaguered members of American society.

The Goddess writes:

My dad's view: "Builds character!"

I didn't know Calvin was your brother, Amy!

Absolutely essential. We probably don't need to have the 10 year old kids killing the chicken mom is making for dinner, but at least gather the eggs, clean the coop, etc.

"Absolutely essential. We probably don't need to have the 10 year old kids killing the chicken mom is making for dinner, but at least gather the eggs, clean the coop, etc."

It was certainly essential as far as my Mom was concerned and I would have no problem making my kid do it. It wasn't fun and cleaning them could be messy but it was a chore and I did it. I also got to milk a cow twice a day for most of several years. It did teach responsibility.

My son has more traditional suburban chores such as mowing,dishes, and taking the garbage out because of where we live. He complains but does it and will for at least seven more years.

Just as an aside: If you don't have them do chores, they grow into adults that can't do things for themselves. Case in point, from just yesterday. Wife went to the laundromat. Lady comes in with a load of laundry. Had no idea how to do it. Seriously, it was obvious to the wife the young woman had not done laundry once in her life, from the questions she was asking. Hey, even I do laundry! Been doing my own ever since I was 18. Had to, since my Navy Chief sure wasn't going to!

It did teach responsibility.

Can you explain how/why, causticf?

At the very least it teaches kids to respect the work others are doing. They may not pitch in due to being self-centered but they know they what they are doing wrong when they don't.

My niece was away for months taking care of her sick child in an out-of-town hospital. Her adult daughter & husband, and two other late teens lived at home. Niece came home to a "mess" (her words).

She raised 'em that way so I was not surprised. She's a strong woman/Mother and a loving parent but I do disagree w/her parenting skills and avoid their household.

My chores mainly consisted of dishwashing (during times when we lived in a place lacking a dishwasher) and floor chores (vacuuming, mopping). I was not trusted with the more delicate chores. Can't imagine why not... ahem. My other main job was being the house mechanic. I not only did laundry, I also fixed the machine when it broke. If a faucet was dripping, I put a new washer in it. If the heat broke down, I would at least take a look at it and try to figure out what was wrong, so that when we called for service, we wouldn't get conned.

I learned to work on cars. Back then, cars needed regular "tune-ups". I learned to change the parts of the ignition system that wore out -- points, condenser, rotor. I learned to take plugs out, read them, and gap them. I learned how to use a timing light and a dwellmeter. I learned to bleed brakes, change brake pads, and grease wheel bearings. I was working on cars before I was old enough to drive one. I probably saved the family a lot in garage charges.

Chores...hated them as a kid, and still hate them as an adult. My kids all had age appropriate chores growing up i.e., dishes, running the vacuum, cleaning their bathroom. Honestly though, my kids had it much easier than I did growing up. My mom tended to be a harsh task master, and critiqued everything we did, and wasn't always kind, not to mention she rolled us out of bed at 6 am on Saturdays to clean house and do laundry. The upside is, I know how to clean a house top to bottom, and so do my kids. The downside is, I went through a period as an adult when I did the bare minimum. I absolutely hated doing dishes, so they'd pile up, thankfully, I outgrew that nasty habit. My kids are all pissed off at me because now that they're all out of the house, I have a housekeeper that comes every Saturday morning and cleans the downstairs. They want to know why we didn't have a housekeeper when they were growing up. Sorry kids, housework and laundry are life skills that everyone needs to have.

My sister and I once complained "All our friends' families have dishwashers, why don't we?" Dad's reply, "Don't need one, already got two of 'em."

The lack of chores isn't the cause of irresponsible children, it is just an indicator that the family is living a chaotic undisciplined lifestyle, that is more than likely centered around the kids, rather than the family unit and the extended family. ( or centered around nothing at all)

Having regularly scheduled chores for the adults and children is something people with a disciplined financially responsible lifestyle do.

I have a young woman living with me now who was raised by financially and personally irresponsible people.

The only regularly scheduled event in her life, was the once a month trip in a friends car to do all the grocery shopping with the EBT card.

When I was in first grade, I drove the pickup in a snowstorm while my dad threw bales of hay off the back, Going to college was so wonderful--all I had to do was take care of myself--no more mucking out stalls, etc..
My kids didn't have the range of chores that I did, but they had plenty to do.

My dad used to invent work for his children to do. He hated nothing more in this world than to see one of his children idle.

We used to leave the house on weekends to avoid being sent out to pull weeds, scrape paint, or any of the myriad nonsense chores that he would invent to keep us busy.

Later, when my father and my uncle commiserated on their draft time in the US Army (my uncle recalling that sergeants hated to see idle troops and his unit was once ordered to cut the grass with bayonets to keep busy), I could relate.

Later, when my father and my uncle commiserated on their draft time in the US Army (my uncle recalling that sergeants hated to see idle troops and his unit was once ordered to cut the grass with bayonets to keep busy), I could relate.

Conan the Grammarian at June 10, 2016 8:23 AM

There is a reason the military does this. Idle young men, find many ways to get into trouble. Witness the gangs in Chicago and LA, and the Muslim youths in Europe and the Middle East.

There is a certain demographic that needs to be worked hard enough, and long enough so that their entire focus in life is on on eating, sleeping, and staying out of the line of sight of the drill sergeant. (That was your dad)

It's my observation (as a childless adult with a very high (R+M)/2 curmudgeon factor) that it's adults these days that have the chores, and they mostly involve doing things for their kids.

+1 Isab - Young, fit men need to be kept good and busy. As Kipling's copybook headings taught us, the Devil finds work for idle hands to do, was true then, is true now.

Sergeants don't hate to see idle troops because they hate idleness, they hate to see idle troops because idle troops = trouble. Train up a whole bunch of young men to be fit and healthy with loads of energy and physical strength, teach them to use their physical strengths, speed and skills, and if you don't give them something to use them on, they'll start on each other, and then on other people. Caesar's decanii knew this, nothing has changed.

llater,

llamas

My niece- who is the oldest of six children and, yes, did chores- just finished her freshman year of college. She was shocked at how incompetent at life her suite mates were. These people couldn't do their own laundry, threw tissues on the floor when the trash bin overflowed, left toothpaste and cosmetic goo all over the shared washbasin, and of course never replenished the toilet paper. (Toilet paper was "free," you just had to go get it.)

And then there's my experience helping out with some of the kindergarten events this year: Some of these kids can't dress themselves. Tying shoes is one thing, but some of those little boys couldn't even put their feet into their shoes. And one little girl needed help getting her dry clothes on after field day.

My cousin once confessed that her kid, at 9, couldn't unlock a door or tie his own shoes.

My kids probably don't do as many chores as they should, but they do some. And my six-year-old can certainly get herself dressed to leave in the morning.

You can call it "character building", but all that really means is "get to know real life". Dishes don't wash themselves, food doesn't magically appear on the table, your clothes aren't going to walk themselves to the washing machine.

It doesn't have to be painful, just part of normal life. We involved our kids in more and more aspects of things, as they got older. This included "hey, if you're going that way, would you toss a load of laundry in?". One day, sometime in high school, we realized that the kids had mostly taken over doing their own laundry.

That's how it should be. The older boy wanted something sweet last weekend, so he looked up a recipe and baked a pound cake. He shared, too - yummy!

Anyone who fails to teach their kids basic life skills, is doing their kids a serious disservice. The kids will not thank them for it, when they are grown. They will be embarrassed by their own incompetence, and in many cases they will have trouble finding partners. Who would want to go out with someone whose mother comes over to do their laundry and clean their apartment? Ewww...

I remember an issue of U.S. News and World Report, which compared U.S. education to Japanese education and pointed out that Japanese kids (teens?) didn't even do chores - they studied. That was in the 1980s (I assume little has changed.) Of course, they had little time for useless types of fun - and, IIRC, sports were not really an important part of the picture either.

Also, from this thread:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/12/05/generation_path.html

One problem, I think, is that

1) conservative parents often think that kids should take the initiative to learn EVERY boring life skill without asking for help and then they unfairly blame the kids for not knowing how to do anything, and

2) liberal parents think they shouldn't try to push ANY skill on kids that they show no interest in.

As one woman said elsewhere (not verbatim): "My parents made it a point to TEACH me things. I considered myself to be a pretty independent kid, but back then, I certainly didn't approach my mother and ask her for a lesson in laundry - she had to make me learn and then assign the chore to me."

(end)

BTW, does anyone know of a good layout of the child labor laws that explains to kids why their parents can make them do almost ANY amount of unpaid labor - and are there any limits on that labor? Not to mention why they can't work PART-time for other people's businesses when they're, say, ten? Obviously, kid actors in movies do just that - I have the impression they're something of an exception.

But in Japan, students are responsible for their own classroom cleaning.

"It did teach responsibility.

Can you explain how/why, causticf?"

For many of the same reasons already discussed. I had to take care of the chickens as they were raised. Feeding them every day and checking to see that they seemed healthy and weren't sick was something that was stressed as important by my parents. They would explain that not feeding the birds regularly would cause them suffering which it was my responsibility to prevent. Removing sick animals was a way to prevent other animals from getting sick and also kept the family from eating an animal that might make them sick. Understanding what you were doing and why as well as being made to do it taught a sense of responsibility and duty which has served me well throughout my life.

Preparing them for eating animal was an extension of this but had the addition of being unpleasant. This taught me that some things I would have to do wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable but had to be done to get the job done. I think that many many kids today are shocked to find this out when they enter the work force. There are times for fun but there are also times when you have to be prepared to fill a bucket with the entrails, skins, and heads of 50 recently deceased chickens.

Skins because my mother preferred them skinned to plucked for any that were wondering.

I don't see too much of a connection looking at the people I knew growing up.

Of the other kids I knew, I had pretty much the most chores. I really resented most of the chorus...vs my job (mowing lawns, etc) and have a poor work ethic around chorus... particularly at some points in the past. I was one of those whose dad made work for him... there was some wood I moved many times.

In high school I had little unstructured time, particularly social time. I was in school, doing homework, or some other academic type extra curricular and if all else fails work.

This is interesting. There are 7 girls in my family and the oldest 3 (I'm the 3rd
eldest) had many chores, while the younger "babies" had none.
Now, I see the youngest 3 flailing at life, doing anything to avoid work. The youngest just turned 51, got a divorce settlement a couple of years ago, and now keeps a roof over her head by house sitting and staying with one boyfriend after the other.
So unproductive, they weren't taught well.

Someone above asked about labor law relating to kids and parents.

Per the Dept of Labor website:
The Fair Labor Standards Act's (FLSA) minimum age requirements do not apply to minors employed by their parents, or by a person acting as their guardian. An exception to this occurs in mining, manufacturing and occupations where the minimum age requirement of 18 years old applies.

State laws often follow the same pattern as the Fair Labor Standards Act with regard to minors working for their parents. Consult your state department of labor for specific guidance.

(end)

Also, regarding children working in the Entertainment Industry: FLSA does not apply to that industry, even when it involves children. State Laws may have more stringent restrictions and requirements.

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/employmentparents

Cut back on activities if your kids can't help with even basic stuff like washing dishes, folding laundry etc.

I guess my question should have been:

Are parents allowed to make it practically impossible for kids to stay awake in school by loading them down with unpaid work? Do the authorities step in only when parents try to remove preteens from ANY type of schooling so they can work more? Or what?

Why they are doing poorly in school is irrelevant Lenona. We don't take kids away from their parents for being bad students. Bruises and cuts, yes. Poor grades, no.

I wasn't talking about "taking kids away." I was talking about forcing parents to stop ruining their kids' lives by making it impossible for them to study.

Of course, once kids are legally old enough to drop out on their own, they're in the gray area, since we don't know if they're choosing to do so or not. But I was talking about younger kids.