The Public's Right To Know Vs. The Government's Desire To Stick To Their Narrative
Islam is a religion of peace, we are told -- over and over, every time there is a slaughter by someone following the Quran's commands to slay the infidels (and especially the homosexual ones).
I don't care what you believe -- it's really none of my business -- unless your belief system commands its followers to hurt or murder other people, and at least some of them take this seriously.
The government released a version of the 911 transcript -- with the bits removed where mass murderer for Allah, Omar Mateen references ISIS and swears allegiance to the Islamic State's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
(Related.)
Then, after public protest, pressure from media and Republican lawmakers, they released the whole thing.
About the redacted version, via Heavy.com, the FBI feeds us a bunch of bullshit:
"The purpose of releasing the partial transcript of the shooter's interaction with 911 operators was to provide transparency, while remaining sensitive to the interests of the surviving victims, their families, and the integrity of the ongoing investigation," the FBI and Justice Department said in a joint statement. "We also did not want to provide the killer or terrorist organizations with a publicity platform for hateful propaganda."
What this provides is a narrative very different from the notion that Islam is a "religion of peace," that we keep hearing from our Presidents and other leaders.
Here's a transcript of his first call -- with the redactions unredacted, let's just say:
Orlando Police Dispatcher: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.Omar Mateen: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficent [said in Arabic]
OD: What?
OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [said in Arabic]. I wanna let you know, I'm in Orlando and I did the shootings.
OD: What's your name?
OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State.
OD: Ok, What's your name?
OM: I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may God protect him [said in Arabic], on behalf of the Islamic State.
OD: Alright, where are you at?
OM: In Orlando.
OD: Where in Orlando?
[End of call.]
Islam means "submission," and this is what the religion calls for.
Here's Islamic leader Anjem Choudary, who openly praises violent jihad:
"You can't say that Islam is a religion of peace," Choudary told CBN News. "Because Islam does not mean peace. Islam means submission. So the Muslim is one who submits. There is a place for violence in Islam. There is a place for jihad in Islam.""The Koran is full of, you know, jihad is the most talked about duty in the Koran other than tawhid -- belief," he said. "Nothing else is mentioned more than the topic of fighting."
What we need to understand is the truth -- because without that we can't have any reasonable idea of a course of action.
Stunts like this are what fuel Trump. I mean seriously, how poorly can you lie? The official line was this was a lone wolf american killer. They claimed they couldn't tell what his motivations were. Are you effin serious? He called the cops and told them what his motivations were. The redacted transcript took a ten year old's intelligence to guess the missing words. And then they lie about why they lied.
At least Bill Clinton looked good when he lied.
Ben at June 21, 2016 5:41 AM
It's difficult to believe that the country is divided along party lines on this "terrorist" thingy. It's comical except for the deaths.
I mean they are yelling it out, speaking clearly over the phone, openly answering honestly in polls, and openly assuring other Muslims "that there is nothing to be embarrassed about killing gays". I'm sure they are confused about how we have not gotten the message yet.
Christians have to either accept the New Testament is "new" or be defined as not Christian. (Duh)
Mormons had to either stop practicing polygamy or be labeled a "fundamentalist" group.
Islamic Muslims have to decide how to handle the violent practices called for in the Koran.
Despite the example of Yaser Arafat as a Nobel Peace Prize winner the violent actions of Islamic countries against its peoples show a violent backdrop not a "peaceful" one. (Can't remember the last beheading at the Vatican but I"m sure there was one at some point in history.)
Yet a large population of the country is worried about what gun was use during a 3 HOUR killing opportunity.
3 hours is a LONG time but you know IT'S A GUN. So let's not mention "RADICAL" 'cause you know that's a microaggression.
Bob in Texas at June 21, 2016 6:05 AM
I thought it was hilarious. The official government line has descended into laughable pathetic-ness: "There are no Americans at the airport! Ignore those tanks in the camera shot behind me!" And you can prove that the world is flat, if you are willing to disregard all of the evidence that it isn't. Wish fulfillment.
The more dangerous part of all of this is the mantra, "This shows that we have to take away your rights. Because Christian-white-male-Middle-American gun owners." A lot of people support that because they are OK with other people's rights being taken away. They assume their own rights won't be touched. It's like what I said yesterday regarding gay marriage being legalized by judicial fiat: Once you approve of the government acting in that manner, you can't assume that it will continue to act in your favor.
Cousin Dave at June 21, 2016 6:43 AM
True. This provides validation to Trump supporters' arguments that Obama's government won't say "radical Islam."
Our government elites think we, the populace, are idiots. If the government would simply acknowledge that Mateen paid homage to Baghdadi and ISIS and move on, movements like this, fueled by conspiracy theories, would lose steam.
Instead, the government thinks acknowledging this will provide fuel to anti-Muslim groups, not realizing that covering up things like this provides even more fuel to these groups, who tend to be anti-government as well.
Conan the Grammarian at June 21, 2016 7:32 AM
In general I think we should give terrorists and other serial killers as little publicity as possible.
Unfortunately in a free country, with a free press, that is usually impossible.
Releasing a redacted transcript is worse than not releasing a transcript at all.
Isab at June 21, 2016 9:03 AM
I agree that we shouldn't - especially at this point so far out. However, it was very very helpful to the investigation. Without his face out there people would not be able to recognize him at the gay clubs, the jewelry store, etc. I'm still waiting to hear what on earth he was doing buying all that jewelry, who for, and if it was on store credit or if he had that cash to pay.
I think the objective is to paint OM as not an actual Muslim, because he was a pretty terrible Muslim, truth be told. But in his mind he went out in a blaze of glory paying homage to his religion, and that still counts as being an extremist.
gooseegg at June 21, 2016 9:09 AM
Stunts like this are what fuel Trump. I mean seriously, how poorly can you lie? The official line was this was a lone wolf american killer. They claimed they couldn't tell what his motivations were. Are you effin serious? He called the cops and told them what his motivations were. The redacted transcript took a ten year old's intelligence to guess the missing words. And then they lie about why they lied.
Agree 1000%.
And the government's take seemed to be, "Well, he wasn't ISIS ISIS, if you know what we mean."
Kevin at June 21, 2016 9:42 AM
"I think the objective is to paint OM as not an actual Muslim, because he was a pretty terrible Muslim, truth be told. "
Not the first time, that's for sure.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at June 21, 2016 10:20 AM
"I think the objective is to paint OM as not an actual Muslim, because he was a pretty terrible Muslim, truth be told. "
Not the first time, that's for sure.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at June 21, 2016 10:20 AM
I'd be quite happy to let the government call him anything they want, but the weaseling in this case is a disingenuous attempt to put the blame on gun owners.
Isab at June 21, 2016 11:56 AM
Isab: "...the weaseling in this case is a disingenuous attempt to put the blame on gun owners."
Yes it is, and when they redact from the transcript of the terrorist's words references to Islam and ISIS, and change other occurrences of the word "Allah" to "God", who else does it sound like they're trying to put the blame on?
Ken R at June 21, 2016 1:05 PM
Christians have to either accept the New Testament is "new" or be defined as not Christian. (Duh)
_______________________________
"The New Testament isn't new any more. It's thousands of years old. It's time to start calling it the Less-Old Testament."
- George Carlin.
lenona at June 21, 2016 1:07 PM
> he was a pretty terrible Muslim,
> truth be told. But in his mind he
> went out in a blaze of glory paying
> homage to his religion
Yes.
And Amy's incessant, unread, shrieking spazzatosis about this illiterate & violent subset of the faith, a minuscule fraction of the belief system as a whole, is much of what encourages these doorknobs. As Hitchens put it, "Power is what you allow it to be"... And as Gozer put it, Amy has "chosen the form of the destructor.
Great.Crid at June 21, 2016 2:25 PM
lenona,
It might be "thousands" of years old but the government (Catholic Church) killed those reading/writing it for the common man for 1500 years. (Google is your friend.)
Blood was spilled to bring it out from under a corrupt governments/church and being used in a corrupt manner. (A lot of this was started due to a King's fight w/the church over a woman.)
Islam can get started with its own transformation any time now. The world has become involved now so time is running out.
Bob in Texas at June 21, 2016 4:18 PM
its own transformation any time now
This is the reformed/transformed version, from around the 14th century.
Stinky the Clown at June 21, 2016 5:01 PM
"Blood was spilled to bring it out from under a corrupt governments/church and being used in a corrupt manner. (A lot of this was started due to a King's fight w/the church over a woman.)"
A gross oversimplification.
The Catholic Church was so intertwined with the governments, and the political that they were mostly the same thing. The rulers of the European states gained power as the Church lost it.
The reformation was the beginning of building a wall between somewhat more secular government and the Church.
Now days, the reason people can't understand the complex motives of Islamic terrorists, is that they believe wrongly, that Islam is just a primitive violent version of Christianity.
It is not. It is so intertwined with the Persian and Arab states and culture that it cannot be separated out as a motivator for all practical and philosophical purposes.
When the secular despots in the Middle East fall like Iraq, Libya, Egypt etc. , the various religious sects and Mullahs rush in to fill the power vacuum, much like they did in Iran.
But since none of the sects are necessarily in agreement with the other sects, it leads to a constant state of civil war.
When the US left Iraq we deliberately created a power vacuum. Isis arose to fill it.
Isab at June 21, 2016 5:44 PM
Okay, it was an interior monologue. And there are typos... But still, it was a good comment!
I think Isab understands how this works.
Crid at June 21, 2016 9:02 PM
Nicely explained.
Even more so since none of the sects accepts having a functioning nation-state as a higher goal than tribal dominance.
Virginia, South Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts put aside their many bitterly-disputed differences in favor of creating nation-state, the United States of America. In creating a Constitution and government, they sought to protect their individual interests and accepted the other doing the same, carving out a working democratic republic in the process.
The Middle East has yet to accept that creating a functioning nation-state is a desirable goal. The overriding interest is in achieving dominance over the other tribes and sects, nursing centuries-old grudges and refighting centuries-old disputes in the process.
Conan the Grammarian at June 22, 2016 8:02 AM
47 of 52 Islamic countries criminalize homosexuality.
In 10 of them, it is a capital crime.
Jeff Guinn at June 22, 2016 10:21 AM
Jeff, that these darling little factoids countermand nothing that's been said. They're not poutingly, tersely poignant... They're merely inane.
Garfinkle:
Isab, above:> It is so intertwined with the Persian
> and Arab states and culture that
> it cannot be separated out as a
> motivator for all practical and
> philosophical purposes.
I don't know why Amy (and perhaps others) want to be so simplemindedly monomaniacal about such enormous and complicated forces in world affairs.
Why she'd want to be so despicably rude about them is unfathomable indeed.
Crid at June 22, 2016 11:17 AM
"Why she'd want to be so despicably rude about them is unfathomable indeed."
Hey, I know you're not Patrick, but
"47 of 52 Islamic countries criminalize homosexuality. In 10 of them, it is a capital crime."
argues that no, this sickness is NOT just a splinter group.
Your Lyft driver could be lashed and imprisoned or killed by her family for driving you unaccompanied.
Nothing to see here. Move along, huh?
Radwaste at June 22, 2016 11:42 AM
"Why she'd want to be so despicably rude about them is unfathomable indeed."
Hey, I know you're not Patrick, but
"47 of 52 Islamic countries criminalize homosexuality. In 10 of them, it is a capital crime."
argues that no, this sickness is NOT just a splinter group."
Small technical point here. What is criminalized is homosexual sex along with adultry etc.
I guess, given enough time, everyone's cultural values can be considered a sickness when the societal standards change.
Remind me again when the Supreme Court decided that US states could no longer criminalize homosexual acts?
Not that it really matters. We readily concede that the Middle East mores and culture is primitive and brutal. It just isn't germane to the point. Radical Islam isn't the cause, it is the result of those values.
Isab at June 22, 2016 1:33 PM
> argues that no, this sickness
> is NOT just a splinter group.
WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT "SPLINTER GROUPS"?
Who, Raddy?
> Your Lyft driver could be
> lashed and imprisoned or
> killed by her family for
> driving you unaccompanied.
SAYS WHO, RADDY? IN WHAT CULTURE COULD THIS HAPPEN?
IT'S JUST A WEIRD THING TO SAY, COMPLETELY WITHOUT CONTEXT. LET'S MAKE THINGS UP! Your favorite little nephew could get bone cancer and the surgeon could botch the procedure....
> Nothing to see here.
> Move along, huh?
WHO SAID ANY SUCH THING?
I'M BEGINNING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. ALL YOU GUYS ARE HYPERDRAMATIC SCHOOLGIRLS. YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THE ACTUAL THINGS THAT PEOPLE SAY AND RESPOND TO THEM. YOU JUST WANT TO LUXURIATE IN YOUR OWN EMOTIONAL TWITCHINESS, WITHOUT REGARD TO WHAT'S BEEN SAID TO YOU IN CONTEXT. IT'S LIKE ILLITERACY, IN THAT IT'S ISOLATING AND IRRITATING TO OTHERS, BUT BECAUSE IT'S SELF-SELECTED BEHAVIOR ON YOUR PART, YOU'RE NOT LIKELY TO GROW OUT OF IT WITH TYPICAL EDUCATION.
YOU WANT TO HAVE A FIGHT WITH YOUR OWN WORST CHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT YOU READ... THE LEAST ACCURATE, MOST INFLAMMATORY, MOST COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT DAYDREAM OF ARGUMENTS WHICH YOU IMAGINE BEING OFFERED TO YOU.
THIS IS YOUR AUTOEROTICISM, NOT CONVERSATION.
Tressider used to do that, too... Piss herself off and then put my name on the end. It was weird.
Crid at June 22, 2016 5:08 PM
Is this thing on? Can you hear me in the back?
Would hate not to be heard.
Crid at June 22, 2016 10:08 PM
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