I think the right phrasing is the key here. Amy's right, you don't want to tell them their home is disgusting and potentially dangerous, because then there's the potential to come off as the condescending friend who thinks she knows better than they do how to raise their kid. Tell them that you know they have their hands full with the baby, so a group of you want to do some things for them. Maybe you all could also bring over some frozen meals you've prepared, and tell them you know they won't have much time or energy to cook, so you thought you'd help out there. Make it about helping them with the change in their life rather than just about the cleaning.

I agree. Tactfulness is the best way to handle this. "Excuse me, but we need to clean this house before child protective services quarantines it and has your kid taken away."

Amy find the best possible opening. "As a gift, we'd like to baby-proof your home for you."

Oh No its the we don`t have kids but we know whats best group.See Grammer Nazi Spelling Nazi some folks when they get kids all projects stop and sometimes walking into the house looks like a bomb went off.Still recovering from a Chicago to South Dakota trip in which I picked up some buisness products that the guy had in his basement.
I am still coughing up cat fur balls and dust we are not all perfect the guys kids where normal and polite.
Then you have the case of a mother everytime the kids got dirty the mother was washing them and was told to stop and let them get dirty.
And kids with pets your never gonna keep them out of the Cat/Dog food once they eat Kibbles and like the crunch if its good for the Cat /Dog it can`t be all that bad for them .

How good of friends are they?

To my friends I could say "my friends, you need to start keeping a cleaner, more orderly house now that you have kids. Welcome to adulthood."

To my acquaintances? Nah, couldn't say that.

My great-gramma used to say "you'll eat a peck o' dirt before you die." But her house was clean! I mean, there's clean, and then there's clean. My house will never pass the "white glove" test, but my girls are healthy and fairly happy (besides the requisite teenage angst), and I vacuum at least once a week, whether I need to or not!

There was a comedienne (I forget who) who used to say "You can eat off the floor in my house. And we frequently do!" (I'm guessing her cleaning skills weren't her first priority.)

If her friends are anything like a couple I know, the baby-proof clean-up project would have to be a weekly thing.

*****See Grammer Nazi Spelling Nazi *****

Looks to me like you could use one.

I have friends like this (but fortunately, they have no kids). They're eventually going to turn into those people who have trails through their houses with stuff piled to the ceiling. It's scary.

Are these friends hoarders? That can be a serious issue.

Fortunately, Junior is still very young and unlikely to go traipsing through a field of thumbtacks within the next 4 to 6 months. Hopefully, before the child starts crawling, the parents will quickly understand that the terrified screams of an injured infant is far more blood-curdling than hoovering up the dead bugs in the corner.

I think RexRedbone is working his performance poetry groove. Howl, baby, howl!

Hi it's me I'm the LW

I have already cleaned parts of their house for them. They are decent about maintaining things once it gets cleaned. Which is to say, still a mess, but not piles of dead bugs.

I'll be home for a couple weeks, and I'll probably help them some more. Their family members are helping, too. The situation is improving. I think it would take at least a week of full-time work with several helpers to get it to "decent".

The kid has had several coughs. Could be a coincidence. Could be the dust. It's very dusty.

Yes, they are hoarders. But that's a whole different issue. Related. But different.

After my kid is born, I will not be bringing him or her over to visit. I don't think it is safe. I don't plan to be a helicopter mom... but... maybe when the child is 7 or 8.

For the record, I am not a neat freak. I am rather messy myself. As I type, there is a glass on the table, my purse and shoes on the floor, and 3 shopping bags on the couch, as well as a pile of mail on the coffee table and the tax stuff in a pile. And the couch pillows are unfluffed. There are probably bits of dust in the corners. So if I say something is a disaster... it is.

... and lest you think I am a doormat, these are awesome people. The type of people who help out their friends. I know that if I were in trouble they would totally get my back. They got our mutual friends' back when she needed help. They are amazingly warm and generous. So helping them clean isn't doormatty, because they will put back into the karmic pot, if not for me than someone else.

And the mess predates the kids.

I've stepped in catshit in their house on occasion. Not pleasant.

My ulterior motive is that I visit them a lot and don't want to step in catshit.

LW, you're a good friend and you're doing a good thing.

The kid would certainly survive ingesting the odd dead bug, and early exposure to garden-variety dirt will actually help him build up some resistance, but cat shit around the house just isn't acceptable. You're right to be concerned about the impact of dust on developing little lungs. And mould. If they're long-term hoarders I'd be really worried about mould.

LW,

You can't continue to play grown-up for them or be guardian angel to their child. It won't change them and ultimately you'll find yourself resenting the fact that they either won't keep clean, or that they will start to use you as a maid.

My advice would be to keep your distance and visit them in a neutral place where you don't have to worry about the surroundings for you or the children.

There is business that takes me there regularly, events that are at their house that I can't miss. I live in another state so it is unlikely they will depend on me as a regular maid. I'm also soon moving out of country. But I will still need to visit them.

Ultimately, I'll help 'em this summer before I move but then it is their business and falls into the category of not my problem.

The one great thing that comes out of this is that every time I come home from their place I am seized with a cleaning fit.

I think you sound like a good friend Nicole.

I'll admit, reading the letter the first time I was thinking "Meh, surely they'll relize they have to tidy up by the time the kid is mobile." I have a tendency to let things pile up in corners myself.

But cat poop where you can step in it? Oh no no no. That's beyond the pale.

"I'll be home for a couple weeks, and I'll probably help them some more."

Don't waste your time.

That dirt is there for a reason - to keep visitors away.

A poem, somewhat relevant to the discussion:

Mother, O Mother, come shake out your cloth,
Empty the dustpan, poison the moth,
Hang out the washing, make up the bed,
Sew on a button and butter the bread.

Where is the mother whose house is so shocking?
She's up in the nursery, blissfully rocking.

Oh, I've grown as shiftless as Little Boy Blue,
Lullabye, rockabye, lullabye loo.
Dishes are waiting and bills are past due
Pat-a-cake, darling, and peek, peekaboo

The shopping's not done and there's nothing for stew
And out in the yard there's a hullabaloo
But I'm playing Kanga and this is my Roo
Look! Aren't his eyes the most wonderful hue?
Lullabye, rockaby lullabye loo.

The cleaning and scrubbing can wait till tomorrow
But children grow up as I've learned to my sorrow.
So quiet down cobwebs; Dust go to sleep!
I'm rocking my baby and babies don't keep.

- Ruth Hulbert Hamilton

www.Flylady.com is an easy recommendation. (granted, the woman annoys the piss out of me, but what she says makes sense on keeping a house clean and it works for her followers.)

And how easy is it to tell your friends, "I found this great website, flylady.com, you should check it out, I think it would help you out"

While i applaud the LW for lending a hand in cleaning for her friends, i'm wondering if she's going to make it her full-time position.

What happens if the baby is allergic to dust and allergens? Then what? These people need to get in the good habit of cleaning their house, starting with getting the cat poop out of there! BTW: cat shit is dangerous, can cause trichanosis (sp?), and if it's on the floor, once the baby starts crawling, you know - everything goes into a baby's mouth, that's just natural. The thought is sickening. Ack!!!

If there is a cat (or any other animal) in the house, all the more need to dust, vacuum and keep the place clean.

Also, again to do with dust - my in-law's house is one of the dustiest country houses i've ever known, and it should be noted that almost every piece of electronic equipment left at that house has died an early death. Dust and electronics do not mix.

Razor is right, LW - you can't continue to play grown up to them. Maybe cleaning once for them will show them the way, but to continue? You're just being an enabler.

Amy, you are rarely, rarely wrong, but in this case I don't agree with your answer. Given the further information that the LW has supplied, the baby is at risk of becoming ill between the moldy dishes, cat feces and insects, which must have been alive at some point.

I wouldn't count on their "parent hard-wiring" to fire up. If it didn't while they were expecting, it won't now. If they don't shape up, they need a serious kick in the ass.

they need a serious kick in the ass.

This is the difference between my advice and other people's, and it's realism. If you tell people they're pigs, or otherwise read them the riot act, they're likely to get defensive. This will likely cause them to kick their accuser out of their lives altogether.

Likewise, if you tell a victim of domestic abuse to leave their abuser, they will likely get defensive. But, if you send them to a group therapy session, where they hear others' describe what they've gone through, they're much more likely to leave (per my friend Sergeant Heather, who says this method is the single most reliable way she's been able to separate domestic abuse victims from their abusers.)

The best advice in the world will not mean anything if the person gets angry and tells the advisor to fuck off.

The letter writer can choose to volunteer her and her friends' services or not. I gave what I thought would be a very passable guise for doing that. Again, so as to stave off the defensiveness.

Scott - While I love that poem and it could be painted on to my walls b/c my house is far from spotless, as a parent, it's my job to have a HEALTHY environment for my children to live in. Dishes sitting with food on them in the sink and on the counter, dead bugs everywhere, cat poo everywhere... not healthy. I could swear that this letter could have been written by me years ago. Unfortunately, the parents took NO advice to heart, appreciated the help with cleaning and then let it all fall apart as soon as my friend and I would leave. The problem is, the house was just a factor and usually leads to other forms of neglectful behavior. After babysitting for these people's kids and seeing the open sore diaper rash that wouldn't go away b/c the baby was allowed to sit in a wet diaper b/c "diapers are so expensive... why change them before they're dirty?", my friend and I were compelled to realize that this situation wasn't going to change. Well, that and the time I saw the baby pick up dog poo and try to put it in her mouth. After talking with the mother we realized that she felt there was nothing wrong with the situation and we had to call the authorities. After the fact, the mother broke off all contact with me b/c it was "obviously" me but continued to be friends with our other friend. Oddly enough, after the scare from CPS, she started keeping her house cleaner, her daughters weren't sick as often, she started to feel better about herself and lost weight. I'm not supposed to know this, but she admitted to the friend that the wake up call from CPS changed her life for the better. Which was all we had hoped for.
LW, sometimes you have to do the worst to help the children. And, before you feel guilty, CPS almost NEVER takes children away unless it's a crack house... they'll give them the chance to shape up.