Over My Dead Bodypaint
I agreed to be in a friend's wedding, and unfortunately, she had to change the date to the day my boyfriend and I were going to Burning Man. When I told him I'd have to go to her wedding instead, he erupted in anger. He wants me to ask her to change the date, and says he'll "never forgive me" if I don't go with him. Now, we were only going to Burning Man together because he couldn't take the whole week off, so instead of going with his friends, he decided to accompany me midweek. I reminded him that we've been to Burning Man six times, and a wedding, presumably, happens once in a lifetime. He called me a hypocrite because I don't believe in marriage, but will "sacrifice my commitment" to him to celebrate her commitment. He argues with such vehemence, I'm beginning to doubt my own judgment and wonder if he's right. He's acted like this before, but it's become less frequent during our five years together. I don't want to believe my boyfriend's a selfish, manipulative ass, so...does he have a point? If not, how do I explain that you don't abandon your friend on her wedding day to run around naked in the desert?
--Upset Bridesmaid
If your boyfriend's ego were a pimple, it would burst and flood Vermont.
He's actually demanding that the bride rebook the church, the caterer, the florist, and the hall, and tell hundreds of her guests to change their plans. Because he needs you there when he accepts his Nobel? No, because he wants to bum a ride with you to go to stand around the desert and watch middle-aged men and women flitting about in fairy wings and clown noses, painting daisies around each other's nipples. It gets better. He's telling you he'll "never forgive" you. Because you slept with his brother, his best friend, or his brother and his best friend? Nope. Because he might have to pitch in for gas for a ride in some friend-of-a-friend's van that's been modified into a giant rubber ducky in a tutu.
What your boyfriend's doing to you is "gaslighting," which, unfortunately, only sounds like lighting farts on fire. It's actually insidious emotional abuse that gets its name from the 1944 Ingrid Bergman movie, Gaslight, about an heiress whose husband makes small changes around their home (like making their gas-powered lights flicker), then denies anything's different, making her believe her sanity's gone off its hinges. In a relationship, writes Dr. Robin Stern in The Gaslight Effect, you're being gaslighted when somebody relentlessly pressures you to believe the unbelievable and do what you know you shouldn't. Stern explains that the gaslighter "needs to be right in order to preserve his own sense of self and his sense of having power in the world," while the gaslightee allows him to bully away her sense of reality and self because she fears losing his love and approval. Of course, in your case, it could have something to do with not wanting to think you've wasted five years with "a selfish, manipulative ass." (Fart-play suddenly sounding inviting?)
Just as you don't have to believe in Santa to take your kid nephew to give his list of demands to some fat stranger in a fake beard, you don't have to believe in marriage to appreciate what a huge life event it is for your friend. Huge enough that it's reasonable to "sacrifice" your "commitment" to attend a giant acid-dropping fest in the desert. There are commitments, and then there are commitments, which is why there are bazillions of wedding photographers but few earning thousands of dollars shooting keepsake albums of people who carpool together.
Of course, you know all this. Or knew -- until Clarence Darrow, as played by a big, soggy-diapered baby, started in on you. Clearly, this is less about a wedding than winning. But, in a healthy relationship, winning sometimes means letting the person you care about get their way. A loving boyfriend might be underthrilled that you're attending the wedding, but he won't hammer you about it until you're not sure who you are or what you think. You either need to refuse to engage when he goes bully on you or refuse to stick around for more. If you do decide to leave, you shouldn't have to worry about finding a new boyfriend, just about hiring bouncers for the line of guys wanting to date you after hearing the reason behind your breakup: "Yeah, seems my ex just couldn't handle it when I said, 'Bummer that I have to get all dressed up and go to this wedding, but you live it up best you can at that paganistic, psychedelic orgy in the desert.'"
What a tool. The part that jumped out at me most:
we were only going to Burning Man together because he couldn't take the whole week off, so instead of going with his friends, he decided to accompany me midweek.
He really wanted to go without her, but now that she has acquired a previous engagement, he's getting all pissy. She's not even his first choice at a ride to something he's done six times before. Amy's right, a good boyfriend would be disappointed that she couldn't go with him (because a good boyfriend would actually want to go with her) to Burning Man, but he'd suck it up and make the decision about whether to go or accompany her to the wedding. Refusing to engage sounds like a great first step, Amy. At the very least it will throw him off his game so LW can maybe see what she wants out of this relationship. Make that "relationship."
P.S. Gaslight was a fantastic movie.
NumberSix at April 6, 2010 8:48 PM
Yet, the description is just barely in-depth enough to make me think this is more than just a random idea. She might not want to think it, but she does know it.
I was going to ask what "Burning Man" was, but I think Amy was sufficiently descriptive enough to give me an idea.
I didn't know what "gaslighting" was. Useful term to know. I would have simply said, "Control Freak." Certainly apropos, but not specific enough.
Spot on advice, Amy, as usual, and one of your more interesting and informative columns...at least from the perspective of someone who didn't know what "gaslighting" or "Burning Man" was.
Patrick at April 6, 2010 10:28 PM
Oh, and thanks for the mention of Vermont! It's where I was born and raised!
And I'm greatly relieved that the LW's boyfriend's ego isn't a pimple. I'd hate to see my beloved Green Mountain state immersed in a sea of pus.
Patrick at April 6, 2010 11:21 PM
LW: He's acted like this before, but it's become less frequent during our five years together.
Unfortunately people don't change. Your guy's default position appears to be selfishness. If you value the brides friendship you have to go to the wedding. I'm assuming you've shelled out for a dress etc already? If this guy can't understand what you and the bride would be giving up simply for his convenience he may be a lost cause.
I'd be going to the wedding. Maybe you'll meet someone nice there.
catspajamas at April 6, 2010 11:55 PM
My women friends and I have been there for each other through thick and thin in our 25 year friendship. We've seen a lot of men come and go in each of our lives during this time but we still have each other. LW...never give up your friends for a man.
Jan at April 7, 2010 1:29 AM
LW, Ms. Alkon's right. Put on your pretty dress and go to that wedding. You stated pretty plainly that you are your boyfriend's second choice for company on the Burning Man trip (and really, should grownups actually be doing that?), so I wouldn't feel too bad about letting him go by himself.
Oh, boyfriend seems like a real bringdown, too, so if he decides not to attend the wedding, make only a desultory show of disappointment, then go without him.
old rpm daddy at April 7, 2010 4:12 AM
Of course, to be completely and utterly paranoid, isn't this behavior irrevocable proof that he's cheating on her?
Think about it. Not only he is covering his tracks by pretending he really, really wants her to go (would a cheater want a girlfriend around) but gives him an excuse to stray. After all, he would've been faithful... if she'd bothered to go.
And how well he knew the bride-to-be? Well, I'm not going to go there. Just draw your own conclusions.
kevin_m at April 7, 2010 4:54 AM
Wow the guy is a fucking douche. Sorry but I'm really at a lose for better descriptive. I can see him being annoyed to some degree. No one likes plans changing but hey shit happens. He suggested that you tell your friend to move her wedding so he can go to burning man ?!? That should set off all sorts of warning bells all over the place.
Unless he has some really amazing qualities you are not sharing leave now or forever mourn your dignity.
vlad at April 7, 2010 5:55 AM
If not, how do I explain that you don't abandon your friend on her wedding day to run around naked in the desert?
You don't. You tell him to have a nice time at Burning Man, and you go to your friend's wedding. Because, seriously? You've been to Burning Man six times? Twice was enough for me. But I suppose if you're into that kinda thing, six times isn't enough just yet. Maybe seven or eight. Or twenty (yeah, I met someone there who's been to ALL of 'em so far! Must be nice - eh, I dunno.) Burning Man will happen next year, too. Your friend's wedding won't. If your BF can't compromise and go this year with his friends, and next year with you, maybe you could go next year with someone else.
Just sayin', is all.
Flynne at April 7, 2010 6:04 AM
Vlad wrote: Wow the guy is a fucking douche. Sorry but I'm really at a lose for better descriptive.
Actually, I think that sums it up quite nicely.
LW, WTF? Are you ACTUALLY asking Amy if you should skip your friends (presumably) once in a lifetime wedding because your ass of a boyfriend will "never forgive you" if you dont go as his second choice for this ohsoimportant event that he has already done six times? Really?
You already know the answer to this question LW...
If you really needed persmission to tell your boyfriend to fuck off and go to the wedding, then you have it. Moving on now...
Sabrina at April 7, 2010 7:14 AM
I'd like to think he'll be embarrassed when people ask him why she dumped him and he says, "Oh she decided to be in her best friends stupid wedding instead of coming to Burning Man with me." And I say that as someone who loves Burning Man (yes I'm a real grown-up adult who doesn't take drugs, and has a mortgage, and all that. What can I say? I love crazy installation art, and can ignore the annoying naked hippies.) But really. Burning Man happens every year. I missed the last 2 years due to ongoing health issues, and I'll probably miss this year due to the economy. Oh well, it'll be there next year. What a loser.
anathema at April 7, 2010 8:40 AM
Wow, I didn't know that LW was actually dating my old boyfriend. It looks as though he's not given up on any of his old ways either—which is exactly why we broke up.
Run, run, run.
Razor at April 7, 2010 8:46 AM
I think the question the LW should really be asking herself is "Why am I still wasting my time with this guy?"
Run girlie, run.
Ann at April 7, 2010 8:54 AM
"I don't want to believe my boyfriend's a selfish, manipulative ass ..."
Well I don't want to believe that it's raining outside. But it is. And he is.
I can't fathom anything that would kill my desire for someone quicker than to have them act like this. Why has she been with this guy for five years? She says he has been like this before, so I wonder why she stayed intereted in him after the first time it happened. The first time I saw my significant other "erupt in anger" over something so trivial and selfish, his ass would have been erupting out my front door. Douchey people are so unattractive.
Pirate Jo at April 7, 2010 10:51 AM
I lit my farts on fire and pointed them at this litle fattie I was boinking.
She changed her tune fast, understood the True Meaning of "Burning Man," and became very sub. Spanking followed.
You can learn a lot from Alkon's column.
BOTU at April 7, 2010 11:13 AM
I was going to write up a description of "Gaslight", which I've seen recently... but I decided not to be a spoiler. You really should watch it. It's an excellent depiction of the behavior of a malignant narcissist.
Cousin Dave at April 7, 2010 11:51 AM
In the tradition of Amy's blog and column describing miscreants of both sexes, do any of you have examples of women 'gaslighting'?
MIOnline at April 7, 2010 11:52 AM
BOTU must be on Spring Break from his high school.
Juliana at April 7, 2010 12:00 PM
Juliana is asking to be a sub. You rent "Gaslight" and make dinner, I'll come over. Shave first.
BOTU at April 7, 2010 2:08 PM
In the tradition of Amy's blog and column describing miscreants of both sexes, do any of you have examples of women 'gaslighting'?
Gaslighting is not an exclusively male activity, that's for sure. In fact, LW's boyfriend sounds kind of clumsy at it. In the movie, Charles Boyer's character is so smooth that Paula really thinks she is going mad. I think women do this (albeit to a lesser degree than in the movie) by subtle manipulation more than constant hammering, like BF in the letter. Like when a woman tells her man that they agreed to go to the horrifically boring office party a month ago, when she only just told him about it to avoid a fight. "Of course you agreed to go, honey, I told you about it weeks ago. I swear you'd lose your head if it wasn't bolted on!"
NumberSix at April 7, 2010 7:22 PM
They do that at Burning Man? I thought it was just some kind of music festival.
Rex Little at April 7, 2010 8:38 PM
Well, it ain't gaslighting, but Leave Her to Heaven is a pretty good example of evil psycho female manipulation on a man.
Pricklypear at April 7, 2010 8:48 PM
In the tradition of Amy's blog and column describing miscreants of both sexes, do any of you have examples of women 'gaslighting'?
My sister is masterful at this. Just last week, she told me that I'd promised to be at Dad's house at 10 am to watch Dad so she could go buy a car, when what I actually told her was that I had a hair appointment at 9 am, and she'd been telling me for a week that she was taking Dad with her. Screaming, abusive hissy about how she can never count on me ensued. I actually went through all my text messages to her because I was almost convinced that I HAD promised her that.
MonicaP at April 8, 2010 6:41 AM
There's rarely live music at Burning Man (lots of techno though), and I made it through the whole thing on two beers and no drugs. Lots of water and Gatorade though.
I think I met her husband there. Arrogant egotists running around demanding that everyone recognize them by their Playa name, acknowledge their uber-hipness, give them free food and drugs and sex.
You go to escape the greed and stupidity of the workaday world and people like that just bring a different version of it to the Playa.
I went expecting a fun, spiritual, expanding type of experience and oddly enough those are exactly the people I hung out with.
Six years of going to the Burn with this guy? She deserves a break. Go to the wedding alone and meet somebody who can skip a year without losing his identity, lady.
Besides, Burning Man was so much better last year. Again.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at April 8, 2010 8:56 AM
Burningman seems to bring out the worst in relationships. Usually it's one person who gets mad because his/her partner is having a better time, or one person thinks Burningman should be all about "togetherness" while the other wants to play and explore. Jeez, if you want togetherness, stay home. There's so much to do and see and experience at BM. One of the freedoms people have out there is the freedom to have their own shitty time, to experience disappointment (when their art blows down in the first 5 mins) and move on.
I've been to BM around 6 times and always had a MUCH better time when I wasn't "with" someone as a couple. I also had a better time being part of a larger camp like Illumination Village.
LW should just tell Boyfiend that she's going to her friend's wedding and she's sorry he's upset. Kind of like that "I'm sorry you feel that way" or "I'm sorry to hear that". I wouldn't be defiant, don't say "And you can't stop me nyah nyah" - just say nothing and let him figure that part out on his own. She shouldn't try to fix his feelings or even fix the relationship. Just let things take their course. He might just shut up and get over it.
He can't be manipulative if she refuses to be manipulated.
Of course, I wouldn't want to share an apartment with someone who was acting like this, but that's a separate problem. This is one area where I wholeheartedly agree with Amy - separate apartments makes for a better relationship.
vi at April 8, 2010 9:52 AM
Well, and Gaslight also has a 19 year old Angela Lansbury as the sly, cheeky maid; she's wonderful.
Between that performance, the mother in The Manchurian Candidate, and Mrs. Lovett in the original cast of Sweeney Todd, I'm convinced that Jessica Fletcher is killing people to give her something to write about.
Dana Carpender at April 8, 2010 11:41 AM
I'm convinced that Jessica Fletcher is killing people to give her something to write about.
That's really the only way to explain all the murders in that tiny town.
NumberSix at April 8, 2010 1:53 PM
TodtheGod at April 8, 2010 2:09 PM
"In the tradition of Amy's blog and column describing miscreants of both sexes, do any of you have examples of women 'gaslighting'?"
It's called slow poisoning. See Daphne du Maurier's thriller "My Cousin Rachel" if you can slog through it.
@TodtheGod: What your ex did was pure evil. See M Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" - a bit tainted by Christianity but the case studies are very informative. Basic premise is people who destroy others by subtle forms of denial.
vi at April 8, 2010 5:18 PM
Women gaslighting: try slow poisoning, as in Daphne du Maurier's thriller "My Cousin Rachel".
TodtheGod: Your ex was pure evil. See Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" - tainted by Christian theology but the case studies are very informative. It's about people who use subtle forms of denial to destroy the people around them.
(sorry if this is a repeat - last post didn't take)
vi at April 8, 2010 5:23 PM
Of course, they do a lot of "gaslighting" at the Burning Man. That's why they call it the "BM" festival.
BOTU at April 8, 2010 6:17 PM
You learn something new every day! I am also one who has been subjected to gaslighting, yet didn't know that there was a descriptive term for it.
My ex physically assaulted me 3x during our marriage, and subsequently, in marriage counselling, he consistently denied to the counsellor that he ever assaulted me, making it sound like i had lost my mind, to suggest such a thing! Eventually, he admitted to one assault. But i knew there was no further need for marriage counselling when he was trying to make the counsellor and me think i was crazy.
I also have a sister who has gaslighted me many times via email... it always caused me confusion and made me uncomfortably re-read her messages again and again, trying to figure out why she was being so weird to me. If i dared respond to her weirdness, then i was "to blame" for causing trouble. It's gaslighting, plain and simple.
Thank you, Amy, for naming the syndrome.
Bluejean Baby at April 8, 2010 7:50 PM
Took the first two sentences of the third paragraph of your reply, Amy, for my Facebook. Linked the rest.
Patrick at April 8, 2010 8:35 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/04/over-my-dead-bo.html#comment-1707219">comment from PatrickThanks so much, Patrick!
Amy Alkon at April 8, 2010 9:27 PM
The sad/scary thing about gaslighting, IMHO, is that often the gaslighter genuinely isn't aware that he/she is doing it. Yes, yes, there are people who perpetuate gaslighting in a deliberate and precise manner. But there are also many people who would pass a lie detector test in the midst of delivering high-intensity gaslighting. They're not consciously lying/manipulating -- they're so insecure and terrified that they convince themselves that certain things are true.
The tragic thing is...that doesn't make them easier to be around, in my experience. In fact, the times I have experienced would-be gaslighters, I've effectively had to cut off communication with them in its entirety. Their unconsciousness makes them even more destructive than they might be otherwise. Plus, I don't care to deal with people whose reality is not my own. I'm just grateful that my close family doesn't involve any gaslighters.
One of the best depictions of a gaslighter that I've read in fiction is a character in Lois McMaster Bujold's Komarr. Yeah, it's sci-fi, and you need the non-insignificant background in order to understand the book to the fullest...but the depiction is still precise and realistic. The quote that the gaslighting character is "one of those subtle feral parasites who leave their mates scratching their heads and asking, 'Am I crazy? Am I crazy?'" is one of the better descriptions of a gaslighter that I've heard.
marion at April 8, 2010 10:26 PM
Hey, Amy! A friend of mine from high school (I didn't know this) was in a similar situation in her marriage. In fact, she seems to think that the LW is dating her ex. She mentioned it on my Facebook. Several of my Facebook friends seem to be enjoying your columns, by the way.
Patrick at April 8, 2010 11:50 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/04/over-my-dead-bo.html#comment-1707244">comment from PatrickCool on the enjoying my columns! Sorry about the LW dating her ex!
Amy Alkon at April 9, 2010 12:06 AM
Well, if you ever have time, you can always see for yourself. My Facebook friends chat up your columns. It's actually among the more successful things I share. Wouldn't ask you to interject, unless you want to, but since you're a Facebook friend, you can see my "wall" for yourself.
Patrick at April 9, 2010 3:00 AM
What is "burning man" anyway??? Whatever it is, the jerky guy should go alone while LW should go to the wedding. This one is pretty easy...
Who knows, maybe she will find someone better at the reception...and the boyfriend could find a nice hookup at the flaming man thingy.
mike at April 9, 2010 11:18 AM
I want to thank you, marion, for describing gaslighting in greater detail. Also MonicaP's description helped. Believe it or not, even having a name put to the syndrome helps too.
I've had an awful time with some of my family members using gaslighting on me over the last several years. It helps to read that others have similar experiences. I never would have thought my own family would use this type of psychological warfare on me, but, hey, you can't choose your family, can you.
Bluejean Baby at April 9, 2010 9:00 PM
mike: What is "burning man" anyway??? Whatever it is, the jerky guy should go alone while LW should go to the wedding. This one is pretty easy...
Amy pretty much summed it up. It's an annual event in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada. It starts on the Monday before and ends on Labor Day. It's named for the large wooden effigy that was burned during the event. It was replaced by a neon effigy in 1991.
As for what goes on at the event, Amy describes a lot of the more outrageous antics rather well. Clothing is optional, although most people choose to remain clothed.
There is no single focus of the event. It's artwork, community, absurdity, etc.
They are also committed to "leave no trace." They're determined to leave the place in better condition than they found it. Most recently, the event was attended by nearly 50,000 people.
Patrick at April 10, 2010 4:34 AM
Personally I ranked Burning Man in the "did it once, time to move one" list. But that's me. I need showers, and eventually, a bed.
The dude is psycho, she needs to move on. I didn't know the term gaslighting either, but have heard it twice on TV since reading it here earlier in the week. Good to know what it is! My DH uses it on me:
me: I told you about this 3 times in the last 3 weeks
Him: No, you didn't! (repeated ad neaseum) when I KNOW I did! I swear I'm going to start taping my conversations with him.....
momof4 at April 10, 2010 5:29 PM
I think a key component of actual gaslighting is intent. I, personally, have also employed the "I don't remember so I'll deny it happened until I'm blue in the face" technique, which I am now aware of and trying to stop. I think I must get it from my mother, who will change her opinion and then swear she always held that opinion. It seems to happen with movies a lot. Most recently, she saw the trailer for a DVD release and said that she had always thought the movie looked stupid and unfunny. Whereas I remember being in the movie theater with her and hearing her laugh at the trailer. From all accounts, it was a stupid and unfunny movie, but parts of the trailer were humorous. I mentioned to her that she had laughed (masochistic on my part, because I knew what would happen) and she vehemently denied it. I don't know if she's aware she's doing it or if she really believes her own rewritten history. I don't know why it would be a problem to say that she thought it looked funny at first but then changed her mind.
This has been a roundabout way of saying that examples like momof4's above are not always gaslighting, because the intent isn't always to deliberately deceive the person into thinking she's going crazy. Sometimes it's just about salvaging some pride in the face of not remembering something. I've done it and have now come to the conclusion that it's not a bad thing to say I was wrong or I don't remember something correctly. I try to be aware of when I'm having that knee-jerk reaction now.
Also, I reread the letter and I can't believe I missed that LW is actually in the wedding. The bride is a close enough friend (presumably) to want her to be a bridesmaid and BF wants her to skip the wedding to drive him to Black Rock? Oh, wait, I forgot, the ideal solution for him would be for the bride and groom to change the date of the wedding. What a considerate fellow.
NumberSix at April 11, 2010 12:32 AM
Well, whatever, NumberSix, laughing or not at a movie trailer is not really gaslighting IMHO, but if it was enough to cause a squabble, maybe. But i wouldn't really call that gaslighting.
From what i learned here, gaslighting is when you are lead to believe that what you've held as the truth because you actually experienced it, then is diminished and changed/altered by the gaslighter, and you are told that your take on reality is odd, or worse, that you dreamt up your reality.
Gaslighting is something that is devious, cruel, inhumane, yet also somewhat subliminal. That's what makes it so surreal.
Bluejean Baby at April 11, 2010 7:56 PM
Well, whatever, NumberSix, laughing or not at a movie trailer is not really gaslighting IMHO, but if it was enough to cause a squabble, maybe. But i wouldn't really call that gaslighting.
That was my point. That it wasn't gaslighting. In fact, your post is essentially the same as my post (except yours has the "whatever" and the rather condescending "IMHO"). My point was that a key component of gaslighting is intent. I think the term is misused a lot, because little things like with my mom and momof4's husband don't really fit the bill. Just because her husband denies he was told about an event doesn't mean he's gaslighting her. The far more likely reason is that he wasn't really listening in the first place. Other times, it's just a knee-jerk reaction to save face ("You never told me about that" really means "I forgot and don't want to get blamed for it.") True gaslighting is exemplified in the letter at the top of the page, where the boyfriend is obviously intending to make LW feel like her grip on reality is tenuous. Or like in the movie, where the guy just wants the jewels.
Sort of on-topic: Did anyone here ever read any of the Sweet Valley series? There was one when they were in college where Lila Fowler was dating a guy who wanted a diamond that her aunt or someone had, so he seduced her into moving into the aunt's house so he could look for it, all the while making her think she was going crazy. He would pretend to go to work, but really he was prowling around the attic searching for the diamond. He'd move things on her and then swear she'd lost them. There was even a young, surly maid who hated her and liked the guy. It wasn't until years later when I finally saw Gaslight that I cried rip-off. Frankly, I'm surprised they were allowed to publish the book, it was so close to the movie.
NumberSix at April 12, 2010 12:26 AM
Brilliantly argued, Amy. As usual.
Ian at April 12, 2010 7:47 PM
My apologies, NumberSix, i did not mean to be condescending, not at all. I took your post literally, forgetting what you had said about yourself, and then what you said about your mother. Perhaps you got a little off-topic?
In any event, "IMHO" only means "in my honest opinion", and was not meant as a slight.
I totally agree re: intent. I am well aware of what gaslighting is; i have a sister who employs the tactic frequently, so i know how it feels to be gaslighted. I just didn't know that there was a name for it.
Bluejean Baby at April 15, 2010 5:40 AM
I know what IMHO opinion means (the H also means "humble," which is even more condescending). I'm not sure what you mean about taking my post literally. It was meant literally. I was explaining, using a situation with my mother, that not all examples are actual gaslighting.
I'm not calling you out for misunderstanding, because obviously, I know what I mean when I type, but others read things differently. It was the "Well, whatever" and the "IMHO" that ticked me off. They were unnecessary to what you were saying and changed the tone of your post. I realize that you didn't mean "IMHO" as a slight toward me, but it comes off as saying "Yes, of course you're probably right, but I always thought it meant this, but that's just my opinion." It comes off as condescending. So if you don't mean it that way when you use it, please refrain from using it in that context. If you had just written what you posted without the two phrases I mentioned, I would have assumed I wasn't clear in my post and explained what I meant. Maybe I'm too sensitive to netspeak because I take those acronyms literally, when others may not mean them that way. I think it's too easy to use those kinds of abbreviations without thinking about their actual meanings. But I still say there was no call for the "whatever" if you weren't meaning to be snarky or eye-rolling.
NumberSix at April 15, 2010 1:08 PM
Sorry - I agree with with boyfriend here. The bride changed the date of the wedding to a date where the LW already had plans.
donna at September 13, 2010 8:23 AM
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