Selfish?

Yep.

A summation of the problem here, from my point of view:

When I said that was too much, he started

There's really no need to finish that sentence. Anything that fits there short of "to see things from my perspective, which led him to realize our current situation was unhealthy" is manipulative crap at best. You (seemingly) explained that his need to see you every day was too much for you and he came up with a reason why his needs trump yours. Not good. Your caring for your girls was likely a big part of why he wanted to be with you in the first place: he saw you as someone who would fall all over herself to take care of him. When you didn't, he laid out more reasons why you should.

I think it's great that you recognize the problem here (your line that he is "using his son's illness" means you didn't fall for his crap), but you need to end it and find yourself a healthy person if you want to date.

This has nothing to do with his health and everything to do with his attitude of wanting a partner to turn into a caretaker. She doesn't specifically need to find a healthy person, she just needs to find someone without a manipulative attitude.

I have chronic health problems and I date - but I'd never expect or demand anyone to turn into my caretaker. In fact, if they started I think that would be a reason to break up. Occasionally getting me tea or a hot water bottle refill is sweet - beyond that I'll take care of myself, thankyouverymuch.

Toss this one back, darlin'. You don't need the hassle and it's obvious that he wants you to take care of him. You can't. You don't have the resources to spare for someone else. You said it yourself.

Don't let him try to guilt you into staying. He's managed thus far. He'll continue to manage. And he'll find some poor sap to fill his needs soon enough. Is that cynical? Perhaps, but it's also realistic. He wouldn't trying this ploy in the first place if he didn't have reason to think it would work. Obviously, there's someone out there that it does work on.

You can go to a club and meet guys who try the most obnoxious and uncouth ploys to score that would prompt most women to tell them to FOAD. So, what? They'll move onto the next one with the same strategy. Why? Because there's enough takers to assure them that this strategy is worth it.

What I'm saying is, there is a sucker in this world who's willing to take the bait he's dangling. Don't let it be you.

Why is a single mother letting some guy come over, esp daily??? Sorry, but if you've got kids, they need to be kept away from your relationship until there's a ring. They come first.

Hmm, single mom, mood disordered kids, think there might be a connection?

Does having "several chronic diseases" mean that he, uh, won't be with us for very much longer?

If so, it's probably hard to work that whole "oh by the way... ha ha... I'm going to be dead by 2012" conversation into the first date.

When did he start borrowing money from you, letterwriter?

Oh, I know, you didn't say he did, but that is where these things head...

"Why is a single mother letting some guy come over, esp daily??? Sorry, but if you've got kids, they need to be kept away from your relationship until there's a ring."

What!? That's absurd, bizarre, extremely silly, and totally unworkable. You're not a single mom are you? If you're a single mom with kids, your life is so busy with the almost full-time job of taking care of them (and having a job to pay for that, unless you're living off a remote wallet somewhere) it would be truly literally impossible to keep making enough 'time away from the kids' to develop any kind of relationship, ever ... kids are a *highly* intertwined part of a single mom's life, you cannot compartmentalize them. A man must actually know very early on what he would be 'getting himself in for', and likewise the woman too, and the kids ... because those kids are going to be around, a lot, all the time ... you're truly stepping into an 'instant family', not just 'dating a woman who happens to have kids, somewhere at the sitters all the time'.

Secondly, if you're a single mom, the single-most important thing you need to know about a man (next to "will he help take care of me") is "how will he be with my kids, would he be a good father for them, would he be a positive influence in their lives and for this family". How the hell can you know that without actually taking a chance at some point and letting the kids get to know the man (and vice versa)? Sorry, but the idea of trying to rather wait until you marry a man before you truly know what he will be like with your kids seems ridiculous (though it's totally unworkable anyway, but hey, why not create totally impossible to live up to ideals, that way you can add unnecessary guilt to one's inevitable inability to live up to the unworkable ideal). You can try keep the man away for the first few dates, but if it goes past date 3, things have to get real.

Thirdly, I just fail to see any conceivable, rational *advantage* to keeping the man away. You think you can hide the fact from your kids that you're a single mom? There's nothing shameful about a single mom dating. That's life. You think a mom's kids are better off if she is lonely and unhappy? Or you think it's "dangerous" to let kids start developing a relationship with someone if you're not sure if they're permanent? That is silly -- you can't really ever "know" until possibly years have passed if it's going to be truly permanent, and kids are not so fragile that if they develop a relationship with a man and he then leaves because the parents broke up that they will forever be psychologically damaged. They'll just miss someone who was in their lives for a while, like people do, because kids are just people. Or maybe you think it sets a "trashy example"? But that's only if you've bought into the stereotypes of the trashy single moms who bring a parade of men home --- most single moms aren't like that, they're just normal people and there is nothing inherently "trashy" about a woman dating a man.

I recently dated a single mom (though we knew one another before already, years ago) who has two young kids, so I have at least a little contemplative insight into the issues involved here. I've seen how difficult it is for a single mom (though she was doing an amazing job, under her circumstances). A man going into such a relationship should first and foremost be someone who can really help contribute positively to the family, and is really willing and able to bring something to the table. I wanted to do nothing less for the single mom I dated (though sadly it didn't work out).

My advice to the LW is to just be honest (with yourself) that this is not the type of man you need in your life right now (in my view anyway, based on the letter). Like you said, you don't have the energy for that, and you really don't, it's nothing to feel guilty about, and if he can't even see that, something is *deeply* wrong with his worldview --- from my personal experience, as a man who has been in the man's side of the situation here, to me it was *plainly* obvious as one of the biggest factors in the relationship would be 'what am I bringing to the table, how can I help/support this family' ... taking on the role of parenthood *means* you have to be capable to a large degree of often putting your own needs on the backburner. Sure men can't be rock solid support *all the time* and will *sometimes* need taking care of --- but this doesn't sound like "sometimes", this guy really seems to be setting the tone early on for more of what would be to come. Maybe you want to keep him around for other reasons, e.g. you're afraid of being alone, but this sounds like it's going to drain you. The last thing a single mom needs is a man who doesn't have his sh-t together.

"... the idea of trying to rather wait until you marry a man before you truly know what he will be like with your kids"

It's not just weird, it's harmful to the kids and the relationship and the family. You think it's good for kids if a man they hardly know appears "suddenly" on the scene as their "new father"? "Hi, meet bob, I've just married him and he's your new stepdad". And behaving as though he is some 'dirty secret', like a freak of a creature to be kept hidden, like they've done something shameful they had to keep a secret? I don't want to think what awful messages that sends to kids. This worldview is so weird, but sadly it seems common, and it's no wonder so many stepparents end up so alienated from their kids ... as if people really believe the relationship with the single parent can be compartmentalized and that that makes sense in any universe.

There's a middle ground here indeed. It doesn't seem that mysterious. At the point where the two of you are wanting to make a go of things - where you see the relationship has lifepartner potential - then your children will slowly see him hanging out at the house more. Before that, a few meetups for outings to the park, ice-cream parlor and such like to see if boyfriend and kids play nice is the way to go.

Friends I have made to my mind a mistake. He has joint custody of his daughter, who was six when they started dating. They got married when daughter turned eight. They never had a sleepover and then friend moved into daddy's house. That was really difficult for daughter who was used to Dad's door being open and even getting into bed with him sometimes. The timing, on top of wedding etc was not wise and she felt really supplanted. It was not a good scene.

"There's a middle ground here indeed."

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply I was arguing against the opposite extreme, though in hindsight it looks straw-man-ish, that isn't how I meant it; I meant it in a 'using hyperbole for parodic effect' way.

My ex-boyfriend had a very similar mindset. He was looking for a woman who would mop his brow and bring him broth as he lay on his deathbed. Mind you, he was only 55 at the time and a bodybuilder, so he was in tip-top condition, but he obviously expected to be not long for this world. (He was the only guy I ever dated that was older than me, BTW, but he was good in the sack).

I dumped him for a number of reasons, all relating to his selfishness.

I also have a female friend who is involved and living with a divorced man and his son. She has for all intents and purposes fully stepped into and up to the role of mother, though they're not married, and she's doing a great job, she's visibly a fantastic influence in the son's life at some important stages in his development (he's 14 or 15). I am convinced that even if it falls apart, he will still ultimately be the better off for having had her in his life for some years.

Yeah, Lobster, if the non-parent in the relationship is willing to step into the role with both eyes open, I'm sure they could be a good influence. The difficulty comes with those who want to date the single parent without the kids being part of the equation. That's going to come to grief sooner rather than later. For me, the "opportunity" only occurred once, where the cute bridesmaid with whom I'd been dancing and flirting revealed that the ring bearer was her kid. I was 24 at the time, and couldn't have metaphorically backed away faster.

@ Lobster - your points are great! Love the male perspective too!

I never let my casual dates near my five year old daughter. I dated when she was at her dad's house, every other weekend and the occasional weekday night. Twice I got serious enough with guys to consider a longer term relationship (the second is still my husband 22 years later). In those relationships, the men came to the house, spent the night, and interacted with us as a family. I dumped number one, and it was explained to my little daughter in small words that he would not be coming around anymore. Number two worked out and he is the man who ended up raising her (even more so that her biological father, another story altogether). We even lived together for a couple of years before marrying.

Some people at the time would say I shouldn't have brought men into the house when we weren't married, but I did so for a lot of the reasons stated by Lobster, et al. Pick it apart if you like, but it seemed healthy to me.

I think that was Momof4's point. It's no fun explaining to your child that what'shisname isn't going to be coming around anymore. Meet the new what'shisname!

A friend went through this with her little boy, and these weren't her boyfriends coming and going, they were her roommates.

She had to move out because it was too confusing to her kid. She didn't date because she didn't want to put either her boy or herself through any more crap. Happy ending for her though. She actually met a man who turned out to be husband and father material.

"Your kids shouldn't see a revolving door of men through their lives. Think about how that must feel to kids."

Certainly not. But people seem to have this judgmental stereotype whereby they assume a single mom dating is bringing home a parade of men one after the other with no regard for the kids, and momof4 seemed to have leapt to that conclusion here ... she was judging based on the stereotype. Somehow that's the image we have, that single women are trashy. That image doesn't jibe with the single moms I know. People think of that image and then overreact in the opposite direction and think that the kids should be isolated entirely from mom's 'friends', which is simply nonsensical and can't be done. A kid isn't going to be damaged just because a man comes to visit, nor even if it happens relatively often, *unless* there are other issues and insecurities making that kid emotionally fragile in the first place. Sure there are trashy women who bring anything home with no regard of whether or not the man is good for the kids or not, and that is very harmful (in fact my female friend who has now stepped into the parenting role with a single dad and doing very well as a mom, is herself the daughter of someone like that, and I saw what havoc that wreaked so many years ago) --- but why automatically assume all single moms are like that, or that that's the case whenever a single mom brings home a date. You get lousy single moms and you get single moms who are very careful and are good parents. Kids aren't inherently messed up by people merely passing through their lives, that is part of life, it's the *quality* of the people coming through the door that makes all the difference.

"The difficulty comes with those who want to date the single parent without the kids being part of the equation."

Indeed; but keeping the kids and the relationship apart is precisely what perpetuates this fantasy.

"Somehow that's the image we have, that single women are trashy."

We-elll...as a former single woman, I definitely had my trashy moments. Fortunately I was young and trashy in the seventies, when it was practically the norm.

Also fortunately, I had enough self-preservation (and pure luck) not to become a single mom, or have to decide between adoption and abortion.

So having nothing first-hand to say about the tribulations of raising a kid by myself, I will gracefully segue back to the issue of manipulative, sickly boyfriends with which I also have no personal experience.

Just this anecdote: my very best friend wanted to become a mother, but had lousy luck with men. She
figured she could raise a baby alone and was starting to screen the men she knew to see who would make the best sperm donor.

I told her to forget the men she knew and please just make sure she took the healthiest, strongest guy she could find, because she had her own health problems, and it just wasn't fair to the kid to deliberately blend her genes with those of any of the men she was seeing. (She liked guys she could take in a fight. And she was sickly.)

She knew I was right, and ultimately settled for marrying (and mothering) a man who apparently meets her needs.

And Lobster, you are absolutely right in that last sentence

""Somehow that's the image we have, that single women are trashy."

We-elll...as a former single woman"

Sorry, didn't proofread properly, I meant to write "single moms" there!

Somehow that's the image we have, that single moms are trashy. That image doesn't jibe with the single moms I know.

Not for me either. But where's Crid to yell "Slavery!" over and over? Don't you know Lobster, that anyone who grows up without a daddy is emotionally fucked up for life? No exceptions apparently.

Having been on the kid side of a divorce years ago...

The parade of men through my mother's life had a significant effect on me.

I, as a dating adult, want to meet and get to know the lady in the relationship before meeting the kids. If I can't stand her, or it doesn't click, or whatever -- the kids never need to know I was there. I'm saying meeting the kids before we're engaged, but I'm not for meeting them just after the third date either.

Some of this thinking is the same thing that dooms marriages as well. "Well we were a married couple until she had kids; then we never had alone time. It was all about the kids."

But for the LW: dump him now.