Reading your letter made me really sad. So many people think that their only worth is as doormat.
"Is talking to some random woman on the Internet worth losing everything over?"
If only that were his flaw, that he was only trying to find all those rich Tijuana women to mooch off of. You should probably move after the next time you dump him.

There's a world of gainfully employed Nice Guys out there who'd love to be REAL Princes Charming, but women glom on to these losers, instead.
It sure devalues an honest working man.

Thank you for telling us about stickk.com and precommitment!!! Awesome

he even eats food I buy specially for my 9-year-old son

Anyone else concerned that's the only mention of her son? Cupcake, you need to worry less that you've "lost everything" with this guy and worry more about what you're modeling for your child. In fact, that seems to bear an all-caps: you have a CHILD!! (And I don't deploy exclamation marks lightly.)

You're showing your son that 1)anyone will do as long as he's someone, 2)it's okay to let that someone "use you for things he can't afford," 3)deadbeats can get away with anything as long as they don't cheat on you too badly, and especially that 4)you value that guy over him since you a)let said guy eat his specially-bought food, b)don't include him in discussions about who will fucking live with him*, and c)seem more resentful of what Deadbeat Danny's done to you rather than to him.

Please, please take Amy's advice and do something to increase your self-respect. For the sake of both you and your son, you need to not date anyone until you can get your head together. A string of men in your kid's life is worse than no men at all.

*I'm reading into it that the son lives with her. If that's not the case, she still needs to get her shit together and not expose the poor kid to any guy that'll have her.

What's with him? Is talking to some random woman on the Internet worth losing everything over?

***

No. What's with YOU? Is dating someone, anyone, worth losing everything over?

You can do better.

"I resolved to make it work with him and then caught him on FriendFinder exchanging numerous messages with some woman in Tijuana."

Really? LW, that sounds like a plot from a really bad sitcom, the kind that launches in the summer and is cancelled after three episodes. I realize that it's not easy to recognize what's going on from the inside of a relationship, with all the time and hope invested in it, but what you've described is pretty ridiculous.

Read what Miss Alkon said. Read what NumberSix, NicoleK, and the other commenters have said. There's way more to life than putting up with the kind of nonsense you're allowing.

"Humiliatingly" is not a word. Just like your relationship isn't a relationship.

Well, he's now my ex-boyfriend. As he's been many times before. What's with him? Is talking to some random woman on the Internet worth losing everything over?

Does she even read what she writes? Obviously, he doesn't lose anything at all by twittering the senoritas over the border. She takes him back. Over and over.

She's a doormat. He's a douchebag. She can't change him and doesn't appear to want to improve herself.

Nothing we can do about this one.

LW, you're assuming he sees your relationship as something worth protecting. He doesn't. You can't buy off his loyalty. A lot of women (and men) make this mistake: If I'm just so wonderful and give him everything and forgive him anything, he'll HAVE to love me, because I'm that awesome. Talking to some random woman on the Internet IS worth it to him, because he doesn't value your relationship as highly as you do.

Lots of women are willing to be doormats. He'll find another one if you won't be there. Or maybe he'll meet a woman who really means something to him, and he'll stop playing around. That'll hurt -- that everything you put into it wasn't enough because he just wasn't that into you.

I'm sorry. It really does suck.

I can't for the life of me see what you get out of this relationship. He doesn't love you, he simply uses you, and you apparently have an inkling that he's a douchebag. So what, exactly, is the appeal?

So long as you let this guy hang around, you're unlikely to find a guy who's actually worth having. You need to make a man-shaped vacuum in your life.

What NicoleK said. That was my first reaction--What's with him? What's with You?

I've read this sad story over and over, and the response has generally been the same over the decades, even if it is said in different ways.

He isn't going to change his behavior, because he has no reason to change his behavior. He is getting everything he wants.

If LW wants things to change, she's gotta be the one to make it happen.

I can't believe anyone could complete the acts of writing and rereading THAT letter, and still require advice from a third party.

You need to make a man-shaped vacuum in your life.
----------------
Exactly. What if a great guy shows up tomorrow, and you're embroiled with this character?

The front door has a lock, right?

@jefe
>There's a world of gainfully employed Nice Guys >out there who'd love to be REAL Princes Charming, >but women glom on to these losers, instead.
>It sure devalues an honest working man.

Maybe, for women who are sold on feminist ideals, it is not so easy to practice those ideals with "gainfully employed Nice Guys" ?

Gainfully employed nice guys don't make her vage tingle.

It is not feminism but low self-esteem that leads women to be with assholes.

Yes!

This kind of behavior is common in people who are raised to believe that they must suffer for their relationship, and that if you just keep giving him what he wants, it will all work out. Political ideology has nothing to do with it.

I hate coming to the party late. All the good stuff's been said. Pirate Jo's comment is most like what I was going to say..."Change the locks. Problem solved, as long as you don't answer the door."

I also like NumberSix's emphasis on the son, however, I think he's worrying about the wrong role model. I'm more worried that the son will get the idea that he can be a loser and do nothing, then find some working woman with no self-respect and sponge off her.

I'm more worried that the son will get the idea that he can be a loser and do nothing, then find some working woman with no self-respect and sponge off her.

Absolutely. I didn't even get that far because I got so pissed off. See, LW, the various ways you're screwing with your son?

For the record, though, although my handle comes from this Number Six, I am not of the same sex. Patrick McGoohan was a handsome man, but I hope I don't too closely resemble him. Hope I'm not killing any fantasies there, Patrick.

Maybe, for women who are sold on feminist ideals, it is not so easy to practice those ideals with "gainfully employed Nice Guys" ?

***
Don't know how feminism comes into play, but if we're gonna blame society I blame middle class liberal guilt, which makes women feel like if they want a gainfully employed guy they're a classist, gold-digging snob.

Also, note all the movies where she ditches the hard-working guy for the lovable loser. This is romance porn for guys, the lovable loser being the Ron Jeremy of the emotional life... see guys? You too can get the girl even tho you're an unemployed pothead, just cause you're so naturally lovable!!!!

@Amy

>>It is not feminism but low self-esteem that leads women to be with assholes.

What if one looks one steps further and see, may be mistakenly, that feminism makes women to have lower self-esteem? How? For example, by making them aspire to be "equal to men" but in addition to be women, which sounds overtaxing on any person of normal abilities.

Don't know how feminism comes into play, but if we're gonna blame society I blame middle class liberal guilt, which makes women feel like if they want a gainfully employed guy they're a classist, gold-digging snob.

Nah. My first husband was a loser, and I stayed a long time. I knew he was a loser when I was dating him. My family had very traditional, working-class conservative ideals. A lot of "stand by your man" stuff. If you commit to someone, you stay with them even if you both die miserable. But even people who are raised by upper middle class feminist liberals do this sort of thing, so I can't blame it on that.

Amy's right. It's a self-esteem thing.

oi...ack...ugh...my sisters....GROW A PAIR...

I see this type of questions every other month from women...oi oi oi. Get stronger. So true it is a self esteem thing. Ive been there. You just have to see the light and be stronger. Get help, talk to friends, talk to a counselor, do the homework of getting to a place where you dont need to lean on a terrible man. Stand strong on your own. You think you cant do it, but some where inside of you there is strength.

One day you will hit your bottom and the only way is up.

"What's with him? Is talking to some random woman on the Internet worth losing everything over?

You already know what his problem is. He’s a scumbag! The more important question is: What's with you? Why do you keep letting a loser use you? It would only be pathetic if you didn't have a 9 year old son depending on you, but; given your situation its borderline neglectful. Do you really want this guy to be the male role model in your son's life? The guy who he patterns his future behavior and relationships after?

None of Amy's advice is bad. But I think the major problem is your ex-boyfriends proximity to you. The fact that he’s your neighbor makes it easy for you to fall back into the same trap. Also all behavior, including self destructive behavior is learned. Familiar surroundings encourage behavior learned in those surroundings. People act differently when they’re at work, then when they’re hanging out with their friends. They do it consciously at first but after a while it becomes automatic and difficult to change.

I recently read about some psychological research that had to do with Vietnam vets that got hooked on heroin while serving in southeast asia. Researchers found that if they let them sober up over there; before they came back stateside the vets had a very low recidivism rate. A rate of about 5%-10% which is unheard of in the civilian treatment community. The rate was so low that at first officials thought that the studies had to be false. But the numbers turned out to be legit. It seems that the surroundings that a behavior takes place in has a lot to do with those patterns of behaviors. Change the surroundings and you change the behavior. It was a groundbreaking study for its time; modern addiction counselors now use that information to help civilian addicts.

I have seen this effect in action myself. My brother was somewhat of a thug when we were growing up. A lot of his friends ended up dead or in jail. Then we moved when he was 16; when we got to the new town he started hanging around people who were lot more calm and responsible. Of course my brother could have just carried on doing the crazy stuff that he’d always done; but the change in surroundings allowed him to easily [and perhaps unconsciously] change his behavior. He calmed down, went to college, got his degree, and now is a productive member of society.

If you really want to stop this cycle you should: delete your ex’s number, delete him from your facebook, and move. Even if you only move to a different part of town. I know it’s not the easiest solution; but change is rarely easy and your son is worth it.

"Is talking to some random woman on the Internet worth losing everything over?"
Yes-if by "everything" you mean this douchenozzle moocher who would take food out of your kid's mouth, takes money from his grandma instead of finding a job and is totally using you so he doesn't have to be responsible for his own life/food/shelter.
You are mistaking "losing" for "winning" because it's a win for you if you lose this guy.

I personally really hate the overused cop out, low self esteem. No not every case where a woman does something stupid is it low self esteem, sometimes it is being an idiot.
Nothing in the original letter says low self confidence. Stupidity yes, thinking with her crotch, probably, but low self confidence no. Especially with the signature "fuming".

So please stop using low self esteme as the one and only cop out for women. Women are more than one dimensional for doing bad things: there are smart women and stupid women, evil women and good women, women who are sane and some who are batshit crazy, and yes some who have high self esteme and some who have low self esteem.

>>What's with LW?

The right question.
My answer is this: it is easy to feel conforming to feminist ideal when a good-for-nothing loser is around to fit the feminist ideal of a man.

To LW: become a traditional woman.

To LW: become a traditional woman.

By acting like she can't possibly get along without a man, any man, to just be there so she can , with great relief, roll around naked in her coupledom? 'Cause, you know, mission accomplished.

How in the hell is a woman who "lets him use [her] for things he can't afford" conforming to the feminist ideal? Isn't letting a guy walk all over you seventeen times a day in ice cleats sort of the opposite of the feminist ideal?

By all means, LW, do work on becoming a traditional woman: one who does not feel the need to be attached to a guy just to have one and has the metaphorical balls to do better by her son.

Ok I'll bite: 'How in the hell is a woman who "lets him use [her] for things he can't afford" conforming to the feminist ideal? '
well according to many feminists the one with the paycheck has obvious dominance over the other person. According to the Duluth Model, hailed by many feminists HE is being Economically Abused. " making him ask for money, giving him an allowance" and possibly "preventing him from getting a job" Are the top 3 indicators of economic abuse.

Part of the ease of this is "what feminists say" is such a varied term some who claim to want equality set the bar for victimhood so low that if looked at honestly everyone would qualify as a victim.

well according to many feminists the one with the paycheck has obvious dominance over the other person

True. But not the case here. This LW comes off less as someone who likes holding things over her boyfriend's head and more like someone who needs a man, any man, to feel validated. The difference between the two is all in the attitude.

"True. But not the case here." The Duluth model does not recogize any distinction.

I however, do not see "needs a man, any man, to feel validated" in this. We do not know why she wants this loser, we just know she does. I am commenting on the assumption that the only possibilty being low self esteme, the LW being an idiot fits just as well, or her being a horrible catch herself.

It is a circular definition saying how you know she has low self esteme is that she is with him.

LW, please tell Mr. Sheen to take a hike.

It is a circular definition saying how you know she has low self esteme is that she is with him.

It's really not. Choice in partners is a classic measure of self esteem, since emotionally healthy people do not stay long with men like this one.

I am not saying her esteem issues are THE problem. That is just one facet. From my perspective, low self esteem is not a cause, it is a symptom. What her actual cause is, I can't tell from this letter.

And, yes, she is definitely not a good catch, which is another reason she's hopped on the Loser Express so many times. That's a symptom as well, though, not the root cause. The good thing is, per Amy's advice, it is possible to treat the symptoms and have the root of the problem shrivel up and die.

"in partners is a classic measure of self esteem, "
No it's not. it is a cop out a way to shift blame away from her onto someone else usually the bf, but alway the blame gets shifted to someone else causing her self esteme. Until they take the responsibilty for their own actions and not try to shift it on others through the self esteme cop out, there will be no progress.

How is saying that someone's choice in a partner is a measure of how she feels about herself shifting blame? There's no blame, at least not coming from me. It just is. And it can fit into many different contexts. The entire point of my earlier post is to say that self esteem is not the root cause of any of this LW's problems; it's a symptom. And punching her ticket on the Perpetually Bad Relationship Not-Such-a-Thrill Ride is evidence of that.

Your advice to take responsibility and not to bother with the "cop out" is specious. You can't fully take responsibility without knowing why you did the thing you're taking responsibility for. It's a package deal: action requires reasons to have meaning, and reasoning without action accomplishes nothing. Introspection is not always blame-shifting, and it's something this LW needs to learn but quick. And you seem to have overlooked the fact that Amy gave her some actual, practical strategies to help herself. Because she's not the "you have low self esteem, go get counseling, next letter, please" kind of columnist. Thank all the gods.

"You can't fully take responsibility without knowing why you did the thing you're taking responsibility for."

Sure you can men do it all the time. Women however shift the blame.
We never ask or care why a man shot someone. But with a woman, we allow her to blame it on her bf or fater treating he badly. This self confidence is a cop out a way of always shifting blame to someone else.
If a man is dating a train wreck. it is, he's an idiot. He is thinking with his crotch. He made bad decisions.
If a woman is dating a train wreck, the blame is shifted. I'm dating him, because I have low self confidence because:
my Father put me down. Shifting blame to her Father.
Because he tricked me, and he puts me down. Shifting blame to the bf.
Because all men lie, but he was honest enough to tell me, dating him was a stupid idea. Shifting blame to all men/society.
Because

And I agree Amy gave good advice. But her advice was all about self-control, which is acknoledging that it is your control and therefore your choices. Not about the cop out self confidence/self-esteem, which leads toward, it being someone elses fault, with you not being fully in control or responsible.

Sure you can men do it all the time. Women however shift the blame.

Aaaaand, that's the signal that it's time for me to stop. I don't know whose posts you're reading, Joe, but if you actually want to discuss mine, I'll welcome it.

NicoleK:

You can do better.

She doesn't have "low self-esteem", she's not "conforming to the feminist ideal".

She keeps hitting her thumb with the hammer hoping that one day it won't hurt.

She's stupid.

End of story.

NumberSix, you kick ass.
JoeJ, you're retarded.
Brian, I agree that she can't do better, but only because she doesn't want to go thru the extremely hard work of re-scrambling her brain and emotional makeup. At least not today. If she did, she'd probably have found at least an inkling of a solution to her situation by now, instead of writing this letter to Amy. It is possible for people to change; however, in my experience it's extremely unusual.

In the immortal words of Dan Savage, DTMFA.

BTW, Amy, you're awesome. Other advice columnists (with the sometimes exception of Dan, and occasionally Carolyn Hax) can't hold a candle to you. Boy do I miss Jeff Zaslow.

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