I have nothing to add. That answer was perfect.

I thought we had this one earlier or am I having deja vu?

Anyway, how does she "stumble upon the truth"? Is she stalking these guys? You can't really tell on Facebook unless you're reading every post and some other woman says, "Thanks for dinner last night". Even then, it could be his cousin or just a friend. There isn't a status for "dating around". It's just single, in a relationship, engaged, married, etc.

So, I just don't see how she knows they're lying, and it seems that she's putting an inordinate amount of effort into finding out. My guess is that one guy has done this to her, not multiples.

Yeah, this one seems familiar. A lot of women won't have a sex with a guy if she knows he's sleeping with other women, and men know this.

"I stumble on the truth by accident on Facebook and what-have-you"

Translation: Internet stalking.

Any chance she may have inferred (although I recognize that her email states otherwise) from their behavior that these men are "available"?
I know COUNTLESS males that behave in that fashion when out and about without their SOs. They strut around like peacocks and chat up every anxious lady they see... lay their wit and charm on until the ladies swoon, often even take their phone numbers... only to throw them away later, leave them on the bar, etc. It's all an ego stroke for them... they think it's nice to be found attractive by strangers. I suppose I've known a few of them to state that they are unattached, but more often I've seen them deflect questions about their relationship status, ignore such queries or simply "imply" that they are looking for Mrs. Right (nevermind that Mrs. Right-Now is at home cooking him dinner).
Of course...this is all IRL... never really had a dude do that to me online... that does seem odd...

LS and Insufficient Poison: Amy asked this question on her blog several weeks ago, I'm guessing to help her brainstorming process or what-not. I remember because it struck a chord with me, as I encountered similar behaviors during my brief stint in the online dating world.

There is also the possibility of "Hollywood culture". I don't mean real life Hollywood celebrities but rather movies and tv shows. When a woman dates two men, it's romantic. She's the heroine, and the two men must compete for her affection. She could choose one in the end, but it is equally likely she rejects both and becomes Independent Woman Hear Me Roar! However, when a man dates two women, he's a cad. He's the villain of the relationships. If he's the protagonist of the story, then he needs to learn his lesson. If he's the boyfriend of the protagonist woman, she finds out and dumps him. Ergo, men are not allowed to date more than one woman at a time.

Oh, ok. Thanks Meloni.

I think Insufficient Poison nailed it. Guys are saying that in hopes she'll feel more comfortable letting things get physical. They don't realize that LW expects them to be seeing other people because, apparently, many women don't. They believe if a guy is dating them, even for one date, he should only be dating them.

Still, I'm a bit bothered about how she "stumbles upon" this info, and why she automatically "loses trust" and stops dating these guys.

"I'm only seeing you" is a little white lie in the world of early dating. I wouldn't dump a guy I liked over it. I'd just let him know I realize he's dating others, as I am, and he doesn't need to pretend.

Googling someone or looking at their public Facebook profile is hardly internet stalking.

Googling someone or looking at their public Facebook profile is hardly internet stalking.

Agreed. If someone puts information about themselves in a public place, it's fair game.

@LS

There should be no little white lies in the early stages of dating. The purpose of dating is to get to know each other. Since neither party should be attached emotionally at this point, there is zero reason to lie. The first dates should be fact finding missions only...availability, baggage, kids, plans for the future, what level relationship one is looking for.

Lies at this stage are unforgivable to me, as they are false data, and they also indicate that you think you know what I want to hear--and that's rarely the case *because you don't know me yet.* The lie itself is always a dealbreaker--the thing you are lying about may or may not be.

I suppose, but I had guys fudge their height, and I'm sure women fudge their weight. If a guy said, "I'm not really seeing anybody else right now", the "really" part could be quite broad in meaning. Perhaps he's not seeing anyone else seriously. Or maybe he has a fuck buddy. He means they don't go out; they just stay in and screw ("I'm not going out with anyone else" lol)

My question is how is she confirming this? You can't find out by googling someone (unless he's married, but that's not what I'm understanding). Nobody keeps their dating history online. Even with Facebook it would be hard to know if these women in the photos are his dates, family, coworkers, or just friends.

I don't recall caring enough about a casual early date to try to find out who else he was seeing. There was one dating site that showed you if a guy logged on, and how long he stayed on, but even that wouldn't prove he was actually seeing other women (though I've heard of women getting irate when a guy logged back on after their date). Perhaps, he was writing goodbye messages or just checking his mail. You couldn't tell from that alone.

Unless LW has heard directly from other women who are dating these guys, I can't see how she knows for sure.

"Yeah, this one seems familiar. A lot of women won't have a sex with a guy if she knows he's sleeping with other women, and men know this."
-Insufficient Poison

Bingo.

"However, when a man dates two women, he's a cad."
-hadsil

No he's not. Unless he a) lies about it or b) is having sex with more than one gal at a time without being up-front with them that that's how he rolls.

Certainly, a man dating several women at once without having sex with them (or pretending he's dating only one person at a time) is not a cad. He's merely being old-fashioned.

It's a trade-off for most people: postpone sex and feel free to date more than one person at a time or get right to sex and feel constrained to date only one person at a time. The whole "dating = sex" paradigm tends to obscure the fact that this trade-off even exists.

Plus, you know, timing is also an issue. The week that I met my now husband I had a first date. I honestly told the guy I wasn't seriously seeing anyone, but a few days later, I met my husband and started seeing him too.

So, it's possible that a guy is completely honest when he tells her that, but then he meets someone else he'd also like to date. Unless they have an agreement not to date (which LW claims she doesn't even expect), it's really none of her business.

"No he's not. Unless he a) lies about it or b) is having sex with more than one gal at a time without being up-front with them that that's how he rolls."

I can't speak for other women here, but I didn't expect a guy must ONLY have sex with me. I would expect honesty about this if I asked, but often, it was way before I, myself, was ready to declare that things were serious so I didn't demand monogamy.

If you have "the talk" where you agree things are serious and you're going to stop seeing others, then he's a cad if he breaks the agreement, but, before that, it's just dating.

I'm not saying the man who dates more than one woman is a cad. I'm saying that is how men are portrayed in movies and television shows. They are always considered wrong for doing so while a woman who sees more than one man is having a romantic adventure. There is a new movie out now about two males spies who compete for the same woman and their antics using their spy skills against each other and stalking the woman. It's that culture that could make some men not want to admit they're seeing others upon first meeting a new woman.

I'm not saying the man who dates more than one woman is a cad. I'm saying that is how men are portrayed in movies and television shows. They are always considered wrong for doing so while a woman who sees more than one man is having a romantic adventure.

It's best if we don't draw too much from popular media. Hell, in the media, a man who doesn't want a wife or kids is broken and just waiting for a woman to show him the way, and women who love their careers just haven't discovered the magic of babies and diapers. It's insipid fantasy.

When I was doing the online dating thing, I was seeing several men at once. I assumed all my dates were, as well. The man who is now my husband told me upfront that he was seeing one other woman he met online. His integrity was a turn-on. There's nothing wrong with playing the field. Just don't be an ass about it.

I agree with you, hadsil. We just watched "The Changeup", about two guys who switch places, and, of course, the main theme is how the married guy has the best life, while the guy who dates multiple (hot) women has a sad, unfulfilling, and immature existence. I know of the Reese Witherspoon movie you're talking about, where she dates two men, and you're right, it's not an equal message.

"I can't speak for other women here, but I didn't expect a guy must ONLY have sex with me. I would expect honesty about this if I asked..."

Guess that's what I meant by "up-front". That he's honest when asked. And, I suppose, that he doesn't go to great lengths to act like a one-woman guy when he's not one. *Not* that you've gotta be cross-examining a guy about these things on the first few dates :-)

Once had, for lack of a better description, a chaste fling with an openly promiscuous guy. I knew he was inclined to schtupp lots of girls at once whenever he could. But I also knew that for him, pressuring a girl into doing anything she didn't already want to do was a real turn-off. So for a while, we took long walks together, kissed a lot... I never cared who he might be having sex with when I wasn't around. It was fun while it lasted. No jealousies and no regrets.

Contrast this with a guy who acted like he was interested in marrying me, but got himself an easier target on the side once it dawned on him that mere talk of marriage wasn't the magical key to my fly. (I found out later that this guy had been asked to leave several organizations because of his manipulative behavior towards women.) Ooh, I was angry at this guy for a good, long while. Not because there was another woman, but because he promised one thing, then did another. As if all that mattered in a promise was the fleeting impulse that inspired it, and not whether the promise was likely to be kept. (This guy still owes me a trip to the Edinburgh International Festival. Not that I would ever take him up on it.)

As with MonicaP, the man who is now my husband was honest about dating other gals while we were dating, and I loved that about him. We both played the field right up until our engagement, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I think that nobody is getting the point of the letter writer's message. That's a little strange because she even put it in capital letters.

She's baffled as to why a man would volunteer such a statement. You all are debating why a man would not be forthright while answering a question about it.

As a man, I'm a bit puzzled as well. I can't imagine why anyone would throw that out there unless pressed. But then, I'm not a very successful dater.

Whistledick, I have a hard time imagining that many guys said this, unpressed, to the LW. I take it as she's speaking about ONE particular guy she's annoyed about, the way people will sometimes lump all men or women together, and say "why do guys/girls do this?!" when what they're really asking is "why did he/she do this?"

I personally never had a guy tell me he was or wasn't seeing anybody unless I asked directly. Some might evade the question, but none announced this unpressed.

Either that or she's doing something that makes the guy feel she's asking without really asking. For instance, if she says she hasn't been dating much lately, the guy might feel that she's fishing.

Whistledick, I don't believe that it was unpressed. It was probably very pressed by the LW, but she would never see it as pressing. Just as she sees, what was probably an intensive search that most private eyes would be jealous of as, I stumbling on it.

Why does he tell you he's not seeing anyone when he is? Because he can change that in all of two minutes if he decides you're the better deal.

OK Patrick,

So it's OK for a smoker to tell you he's not a smoker because he thinks he can give up his habit at any time?

Or, lying isn't really lying if you believe you can change things later to suit your convenience?

That's crap.

I can't think of an honest reason to *volunteer* an untrue statement about yourself.

Meh, "seeing anybody" is kind of a general term.

A married guy is one thing. A guy with a fiance is one thing.

A guy who goes on lots of dates with different women...is something else entirely. He isn't really seeing anyone in that he has no serious relationship.

A guy with a girlfriend for two years is seeing somebody. A guy who has had 6 dates in 3 weeks with 4 different women is not.

I'd kind of have to know what the LW is using as her point of reference here.