Miss Alkon...you have offered with this one...some of the BEST GODDAMN ADVICE I've heard in a long damn time. (Or would that be "best goddessdamn")

Kudos!

One of the best uses for alcohol. It gives both of you a face-saving out.

This is much better than saying, "That waitress thought we were a couple. Isn't that crazy? I can't believe her. Ha ha."

Amy,

Please invent a time machine and go back and tell the 20 year old me this.

It took me until age 35 or so to learn that talking is bullshit and actions win the day.

"...plausible drunkability"

I am SO going to use this!! As often as possible!

HAH! Love it. Simply love it.

Excellent advice, as usual, Amy!

And this: "...all over you like freezer burn on mysterious leftovers"! Been peekin' in my freezer lately, eh? (I just took pork chops out for dinner. I won't tell you the date on the package!)

Yo TJIC - You invent the time machine, I'll fund. I needed that same advice then as well.

Badly.

I was in a virtually identical position a couple of years ago. We'd met in a bar and been friends for months while supporting each other in very similar divorces. We got along famously, had common interests and always had a great time together. We'd both been dating lots of other people along the way, but neither of us had as much fun with them as we did with each other. It was a benign form of torture to be with her so much but not be romantic with her, but it always seemed like the time wasn't right (and yes, I was making excuses for my cowardliness).

Late one night, after a long fun day involving a road trip to Tucson, a charity run, and a "white trash prom party" at a local pub, we ended up back at her place. She made us some sandwiches and we were drinking strong beer. I'd finally had enough of the benign torture and just said something like, "Look, we need to talk. You've been my girlfriend in every way but physically for months. I want to change that last part." We ended up in bed that same night - and we got married last month.

MikeInRealLife - Great story! Love it when it works out. Mazel Tov to you both :)

I'll second that! MikeInRealLife: Congratulations to you and your bride, and here's to many happy years together!

I do like happy endings!

perfect and incredible advice. an inspiration to those of us risking potential new relationships.

If you are a man and find yourself in the 'friend zone' you are doing it wrong.

Go back and read what Robert Glover says about "Attachment to Outcome". That's the main hangup for men wanting to move forward with a woman. We get so bogged in the "what ifs?" that we're unable to keep it simple and say "Let's split a pizza", and not care if she says No.

The endless self-flagellation we see over the possibility of losing a "friend" is ridiculous.
What many women call a male "friend" is really someone who supplies endless free validation.
He's a "Nice Guy", aka Emotional Tampon, aka Girlfriend-with-a-dick.
It's sort of the converse (in a way) to when a man uses a woman purely for sex and offers nothing emotional in return.
If the "friendship" is that one-sided, it's generally better to lose it and move on to something more productive.

This move is described the same way in Ladder Theory [laddertheory.com]-- trying to get from her Friends Ladder to her Real Ladder is the dreaded "Ladder Jump". There is no safety net between her Ladders, there is only The Abyss below.
Getting kicked into The Abyss isn't so bad, since it generally provides the breakaway we need to leave and find someone better.
It IS possible to handle it better-- don't get on her Friends Ladder-- It leads nowhere!

Thanks very much, Lori M and Old RPM Daddy!

Like you say, life is risk.

I took the risk a few years back. Told a friend how I felt about her. She responded well. It went well for about 6 weeks, then *boom*.

I miss her as a friend. The rest? not so much. I got to learn a lot about myself. At a rather hefty price.

I've also come to learn that marriage is a really bad deal for men. So maybe it was rather inexpensive price to pay.

;-) Of course, it could be that I'm just all wet...

I'm in the minority here...maybe because I don't drink...but there is no such thing as "plausible drunkability." Ask Mel Gibson, who tried to blame his drunken antisemitic tirades on the booze. Alcohol does not assign feelings you don't have; it brings them to the fore. The law makes zero allowances for your conduct on the grounds that you might have had a few...and neither do I. Booze is not your condom against the potential faux pas. Take a chance, if you feel you have one, and stop being such a little pansy. She's more likely to turn you down because you're a craven, gutless wimp.

You do it, and you take the chances with the reaction, or you don't and content yourself with that. If there are no signs at all that she's interested, don't go for it.

Marriage is bad for men. Marriage typically profits a woman, and divorce profits her even more.

you want a friend...get a dog.You want a wife ,get some backbone,take the consequences and learn.

Patrick, the point isn't that anyone actually believes the bullshit that "it was the alcohol", just that it's a convenient lie to deny what you already know. (It's up there with "[s]he only beats me when [s]he's drunk, other while [s]he's a nice person." Uh, yeah.)

(Heck, you don't need alcohol. I spend years in a marriage lying to myself that she was really a genuinely nice person and the emotionally abusive monster was the exception. The ability to lie to ourselves about relationships in face of the blindingly obvious is one of the more bizarre aspects of being human.)

You do realize this is a woman talking about another woman ? And would your advice change if she isn't actually divorced or separated and actually has 2 kids and a partner who loves her ?

Umm, read the name in the header in the original e-mail Amy, definitely a female name. Now read your first question to my GF. Not a big deal, just wondered if you had advice for the actual situation and not the edited one, but if lies posing as snarky comebacks is more fun.....

Thank you. Read closely. I'm the male partner with whom my (now former)GF shared her original email. She didn't say anything about a reply.

"Umm, read the name in the header in the original e-mail Amy, definitely a female name. Now read your first question to my GF." GF = girlfriend