It's 4 hours, and I assume her family is paying. I don't see the problem. Not many people want to marry on a farm.

Honestly, all this stuff with weddings makes me want to vomit all over someone's perfect pond with swan wrapped in the perfect colors. People lose all sense and restraint when it comes to a wedding and begin to think of it as accomplishing some grand goal instead of what's just getting started: A MARRIAGE. Now, with my wedding, I held the ultimate trump card: I nearly died. In fact the first six months of my engagement making plans from a hospital bed. But planning our wedding was our greatest joy even when we were celebrated with our own private funk band, provided by my. Husband's dad and all his procfessional buddies, we were all a little sad that there was nothing left to do. Between the six of us (SIX!), we designed a wedding that completely my husband and my's personality. Everyone got something they really wanted, and we cried over the things we couldn't afford. It was quite simple, really: set a budget and STICK TO IT. This will lead to a LOT of compromises and if you can stil do all that and still have people saying almost a year later that it was the best wedding ever, you've really achieved something : a solid foundation for how to run your marriage and future. And oh, FYI, in 5 years, the only person who is going to remember the "perfect" lakeside spot for your wedding is your wife. And what will every guest think "I can barely afford my rent , but this is important to them, so I'll buy a gift, and...WAIT! Now I have to buy a ticket to nowheresville just to rent a car to godforsaken lake just because THEY they think it's pretty?!" that sounds like a lot of wasted time. So just decide : happy guests at another lovely place, or grumpy monkeys trying to throw lake water on the bride? Yup. I know which one I go to.

Meet your real wife!

LOL Snoopy! There's probably a lot of truth to that.

It's really sad how people (mostly women) obsess over ONE DAY and don't get the point - the MARRIAGE is what's important here.

Sheesh.

Have you explained to your fiancee that this location would be a hardship for your family and friends? Are you sure she really got the message, and wasn't sitting there with her eyes glazed over, distracted by some idiotic wedding detail?

If she really does understand, the only excuse I can think of for her is temporary insanity caused by the stress of planning this wedding. Naturally you should be very kind to her. For example, if the wedding is too much for her to handle while still treating all the prospective guests decently, call it off.

Imagine how she is going to be when you have kids.

Good luck...

Great response, Amy, to the sadly, too-common problem of reasonable, loving women suddenly morphing into adult two-year-olds when "their special day" looms. Me. Me. Me.

And priceless -

"or is it that her true colors are graduating shades of bossy selfishness (one part Kim Kardashian and two parts Kim Jong Il)?"

Oh, go easy on the bride already! If she's an otherwise reasonable woman, she'll probably come around on the wedding.

The thing LW needs to remember is, the whole wedding ceremony really is built around the bride, maybe more so these days than ever before. This is one day, more than any other in her life, that she gets to be the star of the show.

But that's the thing the bride needs to remember. Five years from now, nobody's going to remember that much about the venue. They're going to remember how beautiful the bride was, and how happy the couple looked, and how much fun everybody had dancing at the reception. She was the star all along anyway. Overdoing it on the venue might actually detract a little from her.

I was going to start ranting about the wedding industry here, but I'll save that for later.

If your fiancee insists on the lake venue, DO NOT marry her. It will be a sign of things to come.

I get the bride fever to a point (I was a bride a few years ago), but this has gone from bride frenzy to a complete lack of regard for your friends and family, and therefore for YOU on YOUR wedding day. Your happiness will be diminished when friends/family can't join you, or join you but can't buy groceries the next week.

"Magical" scenery far away from home is what a honeymoon is for.

My wife's mother and sister couldn't attend ours, because her niece was busy being born... I had zero family members attending, since the wedding was in Japan and the timing was ASAP (no, not that, we were rushing to complete immigration paperwork.) She had her dad, brother, and a few close friends. I'm still not sure if we should celebrate the day we were legally married, or when the wedding was actually held. There was no big reception.

I'd do it over in a heartbeat.

My daughter had the big, traditional wedding reception and two things stand out, still. My daughter's friend's father's band played and they were great. My son-in-law had half a dozen of his best friends attend all the way from Hawaii. One of his buddies had said he'd sing at his wedding - the band was skeptical, but even their singer had to admit that the guy was really good.

It's the small things. It's the marriage.

Put me down as a curmudgeon regarding destination weddings. It is absurdly presumptuous to assume that your friends and family will be willing to pay for an expensive trip to a place not of their choosing so that you can have your "dream wedding." If the place means more to you than the people, fine. But this bride is apparently making ponying up the money to stay at Lake Bridezilla Resort a test of how much family and friends care about her. That's ugly.

I have, from time to time, warned male friends to be wary of marrying any woman who wouldn't be willing to marry them at the county courthouse (or the minister's office), in blue jeans. Not that I think all weddings should be that way -- nothing wrong with a celebration, a party. But I've been to weddings that were clearly more about the bride playing a life-sized game of Barbies with her girlfriends than they were about joining two lives. Indeed, I've been to one or two where I was morally certain that the bride would have been fine with any generically handsome man who showed up labeled "GROOM." It was all about the wedding.

I think the LW needs to ask his fiancee, regarding "If they caaaaare about us..." "Do you realize how you sound? Are you really making our friends and family spending a whole lot of money they can't afford a test of their devotion?" It would be very interesting to hear her response to the question put that baldly.

And remember, ladies: If the wedding is the happiest day of your life, that speaks very ill of the ensuing marriage.

I would suggest a compromise. Tell her: Sure we can have that lakeside wedding. As long as you and your family pay for it; including the accommodations for the guests.

"The question is, is this just a case of bride fever -- temporary blindness to all forms of sense and reason related to wedding planning -- or is it that her true colors are graduating shades of bossy selfishness (one part Kim Kardashian and two parts Kim Jong Il)?"

This is the million dollar question. How long have you know this woman? Beware! If you've been with her for a couple of years and have explicitly stated that you don't expect the nature of your relationship to change after you get married you have less to worry about.

If you've known her for less than two years, and haven't had "the talk" should alarm bells should be going off.

Hmmm, wondering if the sanity/insanity presented at the wedding is a good indicator of the sanity/insanity level of the divorce.

Oh, and for the person who said "Who wants to get married on a farm?" -- one of the nicest weddings I've been to, and clearly one of the most heart-felt, was held at a farm near the bride and groom's home. The place had an orchard and grew corn, and also had a big, nice picnic shelter, clean restrooms, stuff like that. Everyone had a wonderful time.

A cousin of mine got married on her folks' 50 acres in the mountains of Vermont, very simple but lovely -- followed by a pig roast (a hired company came in), a bonfire, and dancing -- to music provided by an iPod with a wicked speaker system. Again, one of the most enjoyable weddings I've ever been to.

I have also been to lovely "blow-out-the-stops" white weddings; some dear friends married at the bride's church, then had a reception for something like 300-400 people at the Westin, complete with sit down dinner and open bar. It was obviously very expensive -- but it was also near the bride's home, family and friends; very few people needed to pay for a room at that Westin. We only needed to drink and dance and toast the bride and groom, which we did lustily.

I just bridle at the suggestion that a wedding on a farm (or in a park, or in the back yard, or whatever) is somehow an inferior, tacky choice. What's tacky is making spending a few grand one can ill-spare to take a mandated vacation a test of friendship.

"My dress must have a 50-foot train, trimmed with the skins of puppies!"

Dalmatian puppies, of course. Before they get those horrible spots!

I totally agree with rm! If it's asking too much of her to be considerate of those that make up their support system, then he should just call it off.

I've been married only a month, but my primary concern was (and remains) the marriage, NOT the wedding. I wanted to be sure the whole thing was low to no pressure for the guests. I threw a "surprise" Smokey & The Bandit wedding (the theme was the surprise part to the groom... he knew we were getting married!) and told all the guests to wear whatever they pleased, casual, dressy, costumes... I didn't care, we just wanted them THERE and having FUN! :)

Weddings in backyards can end up being more expensive, because most people don't have enough room in their house in case it rains, so they order a tent, rent tables, chairs, china, DJ, get food... usually at a hotel or other venue this is all a package deal.

The issue here doesn't seem to be the cost of the venue, but the cost of the travel and accommodations.

Usually the wedding is in or near the bride's hometown, so a bunch of guests don't need to travel.

If the bride and groom live in very different locations then it is acceptable to have a small reception for the groom's side in his hometown.

But in this case they all live in the same town!

"My relatives can't afford the trip out to the lake. They just can't. It is too much of a hardship for them. It's easy for you to say they'll find a way, but my relatives don't have the same finances that yours do.

I want my wedding to feel like a real wedding, like a merging of two families. If my relatives can't come it won't feel like that, it will feel like a party your parents threw for their relatives, not like a marriage.

It's really important for me to be able to have my relatives at my wedding, without putting a huge burden on them.

How can we make this work?"

This could be my cousin except her family isn't really well off. She wanted to do it at the North Shore (in MN) and we live in the cities. It's about 3-3.5 hours. She also wants a smaller wedding though and people are "bunking up" together to save money. My husband is on the side of "why is she making it so hard for people and we need to spend all this money and make a weekend out of it. and I'm on the side of "It's her (and her soon to be husband's) wedding and she should do what makes her happy". If it would really break the bank I would say so and say I'm sorry I can't come. I get that it's only one day and I also get that it's a really important day in a woman's life. I say, within reason, do what you want to do and whoever can come will come. I say this as a person who had a $5000 wedding that included free beer and wine, in town, for 110 guests. I'm also 8 years past that day and now realize it was just one day but it was the one day that I got MARRIED to the man I love and, hopefully, the only wedding I'll ever have!

This can be done even tackier. One of my younger relatives had a destination wedding. I think the hotel room ran $100 per night per person (not per room!). The tacky part was that for a wedding with a large enough number of guests, the hotel would throw in the wedding part for free.

There was a divorce within half a decade, so I'm rather pleased that my close relatives and I did not go in hock for that particular fiasco.

17 years ago next month, we had a $2000 wedding in a stone shelter in a local park. Substantial finger-food, champagne punch and non-alcoholic punch, a keg of beer, iced tea, and coffee. The folks who were in our wedding dressed as they pleased -- one girlfriend wore a black-and-white cocktail dress, another a tie-dyed pants suit. :-D

We had substantial wedding disasters, including discovering two days beforehand that the electricity was out in the shelter we'd reserved, necessitating renting a generator! Also pouring rain, a baker who spaced out my wedding day and didn't make the cake (a friend ran to the grocery store and had them ice a sheet cake, with a few roses and our names on it), and some family blowing a tire on the way to the park.

And through it all, as my mother would freak, I'd say, "Mom, I'm marrying the right man. The rest is just a party." And I was right, I did marry the right man. And the party was a ton of fun, regardless.

My husband and I got married in our backyard, and it was wonderful. The added bonus is that now everytime we sit out there and watch the birds, have a beer, or whatever, we are reminded of the joy of that day.

To me, the Lake location would be justifiable IF there were affordable accommodations nearby. Like if there were, say, a Ramada or a Howard Johnson within a half-hour drive.

But that doesn't sound like that's the case. If it's an evening wedding, she's giving guests the choice of coughing up a few hundred to stay at the resort (which is what nice resorts generally cost) -- or driving home between midnight and 4 a.m.

My boyfriend's close family friend did the middle-of-nowhere resort thing, and we didn't go. When the mother of the bride expressed her disappointment and kept trying to convince us to go, he reminded her that we'd have to fly to the nearest major city, rent a car, drive 4+ hours, and pay more than $200 a night at the resort and eat their expensive food (because there was NOTHING motel- or fast food-wise within an hour of the place). We would have gladly bought the plane tickets if actually GETTING to the wedding from the airport didn't cost us so much.

There are a couple of things here:

1) People don't need to concern themselves with whether their guests can afford to attend their party, from an etiquette perspective. Your guests can make their own decisions. If the price is too high, they can politely decline. No one is required to limit their budget to what their guests can afford.
2) That said, if you want certain people to attend, you need to make it possible for them to do so. If her family is that well off, maybe they can subsidize some of the cost.
3) If guests don't somehow find the money to come, it doesn't mean they don't care about you, and it's pretty crappy to make that assumption. All it means is that they couldn't afford to do so, or they had other financial commitments. Don't equate how much people care with how much they are willing/able to spend.
4) The groom clearly wants his side there, and if she loves him, she will bend. Maybe make it clear that it won't be truly special for him if the people he loves can't attend.
5) Your wedding will be truly special no matter where you have it. You are getting married to the person you intend to spend the rest of your life with.
6) The bride should consider that if people have to spend a small fortune to attend the wedding, they will not be as generous in gift-giving, if that matters to her.

LW, you need to make it clear that you're not happy with this arrangement. Really clear, not wishy-washy clear. If she still won't budge, then consider postponing the wedding until you can come to an agreement. This is your wedding, too.

I think my cousin, who's kind of like my big sister, planned her wedding really well. She and her now-husband wanted a fun, low-key but still romantic wedding that wouldn't break their friends' budgets. She picked a beautiful little B&B in the middle of the country about two hours from the Northern VA suburbs / airports, where most guests were either from or could fly into. She helped connect guests with and without cars so they could carpool there. The suites and cabins at the B&B were somewhat pricey, but she told everyone about the cheaper options like Days Inn, etc. 10 minutes from the place and helped arrange rides for guests who chose them for the dinner and ceremony / party. She had it on New Year's and played up the fact that it would be both a romantic getaway for coupled guests AND a super fun party for everyone. She also paid for my suite as a thank you for flying out and singing at the ceremony (and crashed there with me her last night as a single woman :). The arrival dinner was delicious and elegant, the ceremony short and completely unrehearsed but gorgeous, and the party an utter blast.

She and her husband got what they wanted AND gave their guests a unforgettable time, with no one having to spend a fortune or be majorly inconvenienced. It's the best wedding I've ever been to, and I'm pretty sure the same went for all who attended.

Got married at a church and had the party at the VFW hall!! It was great. Friends we cared about, whatever relatives could make it and lots of dancing. What more do you need? I love the idea of a farm wedding. If that had been an option, I would have pounced on it! You can do so much that is fun, pretty and rustic without spending a ton of money.

The advice has been spot on so far. Have the THE TALK now. Not the one about sex, but the one about money bc this is what destroys most marriages. If she can't budge on this out of consideration for LW's feelings than he should seriously reconsider his desire to marry her. What if her next dream is to live in a half million dollar house and he can't make that happen. Get it all on the table now BEFORE you make a mistake that is not easy to fix. Good luck LW, acting like an adult is not always easy and this may be one of the hardest things you will ever do.

One person's expensive is another person's average expense.

LW if you have been direct about this and not just mentioning it and hoping she will hear with her dreams of lakes, swans, doves flying and her in the perfect dress with a shaft of sunlight from the heavens beaming down on her and she still says NO! I am going to have it there and I do not care about your feelings or your family!

It is now time to tell her you want to have pre-marital counseling and money and the monster wedding needs to be the first subject discussed. Premarital counseling especially about money is always a good idea but in this case it is essential.

One thing I forgot. There is no lower cost lodging around? That means people are not only driving 4 hours to get there but then are at the wedding and reception and then driving 4 hours to get back? So we are talking about a 10 hour day? That truly is selfish.

Beware of the Mother of the Bride. She may be urging this for many reasons but many MOB's see their daughter's wedding as a social triumph for them.

I agree with those who urge getting all this in the open and if she still insists on that location either postponing the date or calling the wedding off.

Snoopy is right; this is the real woman showing her true colors. LW needs to put his foot down and say "absolutely not" and see the reaction. If she goes batshit crazy, he's dealing with a cluster "B" and needs to run away as fast as he can.

I can't count the number of people I know who had relatively inexpensive weddings but now admit that in hindsight, they should have gotten married in town hall or a church, had a small reception, and pocketed the extra. It's not just the money, but the stress.

My big regrets, besides marrying my now ex at all, was that we wanted a wedding pie and gave into her damn mother and had an absolutely grotesque cake instead.

My oldest had a wedding cake, but also had a cupcake tree and a fruit and salad bar. The venue was an old farm converted into a wedding site and was wonderful. The only part that made me livid was when her future in-laws talked her into getting a much more expensive wedding dress, though my daughter guilted them into paying for most the food and the entertainment in exchange.

I'm glad you posed the question about whether this is the bride's true nature (selfish, inconsiderate and unyielding) or if this an isolated case of Bridezillaism.

I'm inclined to think, in light of her callous response -- "...people who care about us will find a way to come" -- that it's the former.

I simply can't believe that anyone would say such a thing and it's merely an isolated blind spot, rather than a clear indicator of her real character.

Quite frankly, anyone who demands the fairy tale wedding complete with the pumpkin-coach and horses should already be knocked off the list as a suitable mate. This stunning display of extravagance for the ritual would eclipse what's truly important: the commitment.

Yes, I think marriage is about as dumb an idea as any that was ever invented, but this woman has truly lost track of what's truly important. Why anyone would even want to make a lifetime commitment to such a person is beyond me.

Hello, that suggestion about a pre-event photo shoot at the lake is THE BEST!!! BRILLIANT, Amy! I may remember my wedding day as a big fuzzy happy feeling but the photos are forever and maybe he can convince the bride of that. I do find it hard to believe there are no budget accommodations near the lake though.

I simply can't believe that anyone would say such a thing and it's merely an isolated blind spot, rather than a clear indicator of her real character.

This could very well be an isolated case of the batshit crazies. People (mostly women) can get very intense about weddings, assuming other people feel as passionately about their wedding as they do. Never mind that maybe someone doesn't want to spend $500 to attend your wedding because they'd rather spend it on rent or a new computer. All that emotional intensity can make people a little nuts (especially when family gets involved), and when they get married, they come back to their senses.

This isn't necessarily a sign that she has some underlying personality disorder, but he should keep his eyes open.

@MonicaP
1) People don't need to concern themselves with whether their guests can afford to attend their party, from an etiquette perspective. Your guests can make their own decisions. If the price is too high, they can politely decline. No one is required to limit their budget to what their guests can afford.

Most people have guests they definitely want to be there, so while this is sort-of true, be careful because it will give the wrong impression. Unless you only care about yourself, you do need to take into consideration what at least some of the guests can afford. I think what Miss Manners generally counsels is that when thinking of whom to please, look to the people of priority. To mee this is the key point here. We don't want to give people like the bride license.

My husband and I were going for a simple morning ceremony at the courthouse with his best friend and a classmate of mine for witnesses, and a couple of friends who we thought might like to be there. We had told his family of course, and knew his mom and a couple of local relatives would show up.

As it happened, his mom had made us a big wedding cake, his sisters decorated our car and two of our friends hosted a reception at their home. Our friends love a party, and they just kind of took it out of our hands and we let them. It was my second marriage and his first, and we were in our thirties, and we really didn't need to make a huge deal of it, but it was really cool how many people got involved in making it a big old party.

Dinner, cake, presents, the whole deal, and we didn't do a damned thing but show up.

My wedding cost $100. That's right. $100. And we could barely afford that. We could have paid to be married in front of the beautiful Santa Barbara Courthouse, but we chose not to pay and take our chances instead. Since no one had paid for the spot that day, we got it for free. We paid for a picnic area in a beach park because we couldn't guarantee to get it that day. That cost $25. We made a bunch of food, my hubby made and decorated a two tier cake, and my dress cost $30. I have such happy memories of that day.

Next year we celebrate our 25th anniversary. Now THAT's something to have a big party about!

Nicely done, Laurie.

My daughter claimed she was going to be married in Hawaii. I said, "Have a good time. None of your friends can afford to go."

A lot of fiction is written in the dark.

Most people have guests they definitely want to be there, so while this is sort-of true, be careful because it will give the wrong impression.

Of course. If you want certain people there, you're going to have to make it affordable enough for them to go or pay their way. But it's not strictly rude to have a destination wedding that some people can't afford to attend. You just have to decide what your priorities are.

It's not a sin to have an over-the-top expensive wedding, nor is it particularly virtuous to have an inexpensive one. People like to celebrate big occasions, and some have the money to do it big. As long as they don't expect me to give a bigger gift because they chose to spend more, I don't care.

My husband and I got married in Hawaii, alone, and that's the way we wanted it. We had two small parties in each of our hometowns afterward. That worked well.

Ms. Alkon has it right. If you think this is an uncharacteristic "bridezilla moment", then you'll probably be able to reason with her. If you can't reason with her, then it isn't an uncharacteristic moment; it's just her character. And, if her character is such that she cannot understand the needs of people who get paid by the hour or who are elderly, then you need to decide today if she is the woman for you. You're lucky that you get to make this decision now instead of after the wedding or, worse, after children.

The bridezilla stories always kill me.

We got married 2 years ago. I think the fact that I was 48-a grown up- helped me not to get any crazy ideas.

While I did want to be a pretty pretty princess marrying my prince charming, I was very reasonable about all my planning.

We discussed everything together and came to agreements.(crazy idea, right?)

I started out with a list of 66 people and then realized what that would cost and cut it in half.
I wanted it to be in a fine restaurant. I grew up in a nice restaurant and good food/booze is very important to me as is good service. I wanted my guests to feel pampered while sharing our big night.

It was at the oldest inn in NY state built in 1686.

All in all, our wedding cost $6350 and that includes our clothing and EVERYTHING.

I negotiated a discounted rate at a nearby hotel as we had people coming from out of state and out of the country. That also got us a free night there in the bridal suite.

We paid for car service to pick people up from the airport because we felt they were already paying for flights and hotels and we didn't have enough space in our cars for all of them.
I even had to buy 2 wedding dresses because I lost weight before the wedding and my original dress got too big to alter.

It was a fabulous wedding! Everyone had so much fun.

We sell vintage stuff on ebay and etsy and we paid for everything out of our paypal account.

If her family is so "well off" as he stated, why could they not come up with a place for everyone to spend the night? I doubt the cost would be more than a rounding error for this kind of wedding.

My husband and I were in Alaska when we got engaged. We decided to get married in Ohio where all of my family is. Our wedding cost under $2000 and was very special. We are now married 21 years. All of our family were able to attend without any hardship whereas Alaska would have been too hard.

It's hard to believe that there are only two options - beautiful resort or uncle's pasture. The groom could simply refuse to do the resort wedding, and she would have to keep looking close to home.

Another option is to have the wedding and reception at the resort and have a second reception in their hometown a week or two later. The bride's family could certainly afford to do the second reception. I had some cousins that got married in Colorado, then had additional receptions in Chicago and Atlanta, so that all of their (very) extended family could share in the event. People were relieved that they didn't have to travel across the country to be at the celebration. Bring a video and/or photos of the Ceremony to start the hometown Reception, and you can have your cake and eat it too - literally.

If you read the bridal mgazines, the theme being shoved down everyone's throat is "This is the Brides day, everyone else is an accessory, including the Groom." it is not about joining two lives into one, it's about Princess getting her dream Barbie wedding day.
It is very sad, really, how these children are taught to value the appearance rather than the substance of what the marriage means.

I bet if LW had said "this beautiful space on my uncle's estate" instead of "my uncle's farm" there wouldn't have been these snarky comments about goats, pastures, and who-wants-to-get-married-on-a-farm. There are farms (as in pastures with cow pies) and then there are farms (where the term "estate" might really be appropriate). If LW says the space is beautiful, then maybe he knows what he's talking about.

I talked to my Uncle this weekend - his family is invited to three weddings this summer. One in Hawaii, one in Taiwan and Thailand (?) - and they feel obligated to go to all of them. He says they are thinking about skipping the Hawaii one. The other two are only a week apart so he is thinking they will fly to the first on Thursday, attend the ceremonies on the weekend, then on Wednesday fly to the other one since it is only a couple hour flight, attend the next wedding on that weekend and then fly home.

I am reminded of my sister in law - she had a nice simple dress picked out when she went to the store but somehow came home having purchased a dress at 10x the cost.

Your girlfriend is experiencing the same misdirected obsession that girls who have been dating for a long time experience. Women also freak out over whether or not they're going to get an engagement ring and then they spend time obsessing over whether the wedding day is perfect (this woman in another advice column was putting strain on her relationship by doing just that: http://www.constructionlitmag.com/additions/those-pushy-neurotic-girls). We spend a lot of our childhood being told that that is going to be the most important day of our life (not, I don't know, graduating college or our kid's fifth birthday or the day we win the Pulitzer). I agree with the finding a compromise location suggestion. Surely there are beautiful spots in the world that are a)not your uncle's farm, which seems unacceptable or b)the most expensive place on Earth (also unacceptable).