I agree with Amy, just tell her the truth, that you have no interest in raising a family, and let her try her luck with someone else. How old is your wife? You are 40, is she in the same age bracket?(40yrs old, infertile, yah good luck with that.

Some women feel that raising a baby is the purpose of there life, if you beleive in God, you could just tell her its God's Will that you are barren, and God does not want you to procreate.

He's kind of a jackass for dragging it out. You don't want kids, that's something you let your spouse in on as SOON as you know. Preferably, before he/she is your spouse.

At this point, she's probably down to adoption or IVF (most likely adoption) as a single mother, and that might be hard with her age if she's right up there with you. But you have to give her all the cards and let her decide her play. There's no other way to be a decent person. Suck it up, talk with her, accept you may be childless alone.

For something that is usually a dealbreaker in a relationship, he is taking a rather "so what" attitude towards his wife's feelings in the matter. I can assure you if the reverse was true, and he wanted children and she didn't, the wailing of "She's so selfish! Why won't she even consider my needs! I have to carry on my family name and stuff!" would be deafening.

You've been stringing this woman along for 5 years. No wonder she's giving you dagger stares. You've kept her in the penalty box while her biological clock ran out, and you expect her to thank you? Puh-leeze! Time for the 'Come to Geebus' meeting, tell her straight out, no beating around the bush, and let her make up her mind on which is more important to her. Raising a child, or being your surrogate mommy. Because let's face it, you really don't want the competition, do you?

I think Amy might have hit the nail on the head. It looks like he thought it would go away, and she thought it would just "happen" and he'd have to deal with the fallout. Both of them are guilty for not being up front when they started their relationship.

It takes two yesses to make a baby. Since we only have one here, it's time for the LW to move on.

I can guarantee: hot (and not so hot) 40-y.o. women are in demand-- by 20- and 30-something men who'd have no trouble at all getting her knocked up.
Guar-an-teed!

So you went into a marriage with a woman who wants children not really wanting them? Then when fertility problems pop up YOU decide a childless marriage is what is best for both of you and there is no need to try fertility treatments. Well goody for you. It is time to be honest and it is time to ask her to go to counseling with you, if only to get her ready to divorce you.

It is good you have not had children because no-one should have children unless they want them. However to go into a marriage without completely discussing this issue is wrong. From the outside it looks as if you have gone along to avoid conflict at best you would have been a grudging father and you have already done the worst on this issue and that is wasting your wife's time with your dishonesty. Of course she is angry and hostile, she has been open and honest in her desire to have children while you played a passive aggressive wait and see game. ANY woman who wanted to have children would be angry and hostile to you now.

Go to counseling be honest about this, and let her find someone who wants children or who already has some little ones she can help raise.

Sheeee-it, I'd divorce you just based on the fact that you're an asshat, LW!

It upsets her to see me happy without kids while she pines for them.

You're an asshat of the highest order. And mean. Stony. Let her go, you don't deserve her.

My ex and I split over this issue. We'd agreed to no kids. Then it became obvious that he did want them, and had hoped all along that I would change my mind.

Women sometimes do "come around," but it's usually in the other direction--not wanting them and then wanting them.

If she wants to stay in this marriage, she might be able to get her kid fix by working with them. There are lots of ways to do that.

I wasn't happy until she was happy.

"Both of them are guilty for not being up front when they started their relationship."

Who says she wasn't upfront? He doesn't say they were both undecided, or that she knew he was. It reads more like this was all internal to him. Obviously, he's even tried babymaking with her, or they wouldn't know she has fertility issues. So it doens't sound at all like she thought she'd slide one past him. It sounds like he was wussily going along, and has now deidede that since going along is going to take a lot more effort through fertility and adoption, he's putting his foot down.

Even if she's 40 too, she's better off without him.

I'm in the "the LW is an asshole" column.

Another possibility is that HE has fertility issues and is trying to justify it by saying he doesn't care. Which still makes him an asshole.

"He's kind of a jackass for dragging it out. You don't want kids, that's something you let your spouse in on as SOON as you know."

If she knew he was 'on the fence' (you guys do know what that expression means, right? It means he didn't know), I'm guessing she knew he was on the fence. If she wanted kids she should have picked someone who - duh - wanted kids. She knew he was on the fence about it, married him anyway, but now it's his fault? It doesn't sound to me like he lied or pulled any kind of bait and switch. "Hey, he's unsure if he even wants kids, doesn't sound too interested in them - but hey, I'll marry him, and just blame him later for feeling that way!" I can't see what he did that makes him an asshole.

"So you went into a marriage with a woman who wants children not really wanting them? Then when fertility problems pop up YOU decide a childless marriage is what is best for both of you and there is no need to try fertility treatments"

Wow, what an entitled attitude. Yes yes, a man is just an object to hand over sperm.

What a selfish man, for not just handing over his sperm and cash!

Doesn't seem like he feels very strongly about much of anything, including the fact that she's "angry and outright hostile to me".

Personally, I wouldn't want to stay married to someone who was hostile to me, for whatever reason.

What advice does the guy want, anyway?
For Amy to wave her magic wand and make his wife content with the situation? Not gonna happen, dude. And if the wife is hoping her anger will change him--well, that's not gonna happen either.

Separate, you two. Or don't. Be just one more unhappy couple, circling the drain.

I'll disagree with the majority here. The LW is getting blasted for having a balanced and contented life while his obsessed, single-focus wife is getting sympathy.

I was in his shoes. I was ambivalent about kids, too. My hubby wanted to adopt and I sure didn't jump to it to make that happen. I just wasn't on board that train at all. If kids were meant for me, they'd happen. Eventually, they did. And it was fine.

There is nothing wrong with his attitude and and admitting his reluctance to jump through flaming fertility hoops. I'd suggest couples communication therapy. Not so much to swing him around to her way of thinking, but to help him deal with her obsession. They are not on the same page. Hell, they aren't even in the same book.

His attitude seems pretty common among men, to me. Hence the saying, "A man gets married so he won't lose his girlfriend. He has kids so he won't lose his wife."

He was open and honest about being "on the fence," which meant he was perfectly happy either way, and since she wanted kids he was happy to let her dictate the direction.

But nature had different ideas, I guess.

I think she has a screw or two loose if she "sees no purpose to life without children." (Granted, those are his words.) If she's 35 or 40 years old already, does that mean her life has had no purpose yet? That sounds nutty and obsessive.

Assuming she knew he was "on the fence" before she married him, SHE is responsible for her unhappiness.

I do agree with a lot of the posters that BOTH parties need to be in lock-step about the whole kids thing before marriage, though.

And I think the problem, as Amy put it, is that "on the fence" meant very different things to both of them. To him "on the fence" meant that not having kids wouldn't be the end of the world. To her, "on the fence" meant that he just needed a baby to come along and push him over to her side of the fence.

No matter what, this is very sad.

To him "on the fence" meant that not having kids wouldn't be the end of the world. To her, "on the fence" meant that he just needed a baby to come along and push him over to her side of the fence.

Thread win.

Before Icome down on a side, I have to wonder what those two talked about concerning kids before marriage. It sounds like they now have opposite opinions, "no life without them" vs "Eh I'm ok without them." So to me it's either they didn't have a talk about it, or at least one, probably both changed their minds about kids.

It sounds like the peanut gallery has decided that he has changed his mind, I don't think so. He still sounds on the fence to me.

If she got pregnant tomorrow I wonder how he'd feel.

Jeebus, most of you, haven't you ever had a change of heart/mind? Yeah yeah, I know it's a big fat deal because it's about kids. Yeah. Give this couple a break; so their feelings both changed over time. Call the cops, how dare they. This is a bummer of a sitch, but let's not get carried away. LW isn't such a wretched person, and neither is his wife. They're just at an impasse, which sucks for them.

It's hard to be in this situation. Really, really, really hard! My husband and I can't have more kids (we have one) and my response was to be close to devestated and his was "Eh, whatever". He sounds a lot like this guy. If it would have happened naturally, ok, he would have gone along with it but he's not going through fertility treatments. If we didn't already have a kid that would have been a complete deal breaker. I still feel cheated, it's really the only word that fits.
A woman who is dying to be a mother, having fertility issues, and probably almost 40 is a raving lunatic of emotion, to say the least. Now you add her husband, who should be one of the only other people who understands, tells her "Nah, I don't want to". I don't think many people here have any idea at all what that feels like.

My view of the LW being an asshole isn't about whether he changed his mind about kids, but that his letter makes his wife out to be some sort of bitch because she wants kids. His entire attitude toward her as displayed in the letter seems very self-centered.

(The fact that he writes a letter to an online column instead of trying to fix his marriage by going to counseling only reinforces this.)

I've accepted that a childless marriage is best for us, given my wife's fertility issues and my ambivalence about parenthood. My wife, however, sees no purpose to life without children.

Given that your wife sees no purpose in life without children, I think your first sentence should be revised to: "I've accepted that a childless marriage is best for me..."

Since there's really no compromise in a situation like this (I don't think having half a kid would work), if you continue to feel very strongly about not having kids and your wife continues to feel adamant about having them, it looks like you're either going to give birth to a divorce or a very contentious marriage.

It's not clear whether this guy was upfront about being on the fence, but I get the feeling he was wishy-washy and sort-of on board with the whole thing when he says, "I thought some parental gene might kick in, but it never did."

People can be very dramatic when their dreams die. Just because she feels like her life has no purpose without kids now doesn't mean she'll feel that way in 5 or 10 years. But if he wants to avoid a miserable marriage or divorce, he needs to be sensitive to the fact that while he's getting what he seems to have secretly wanted all along, she's mourning a serious loss, and she's doing it alone.

*****And I think the problem, as Amy put it, is that "on the fence" meant very different things to both of them. To him "on the fence" meant that not having kids wouldn't be the end of the world. To her, "on the fence" meant that he just needed a baby to come along and push him over to her side of the fence.*****

THIS.

God forbid a man has any control over his fertility or his destiny. I'm assuming that the guy didn't straight out lie to her, and his wife knew that he was ambivalent about having children. Or she at least knew as much as she took the effort to find out.

If this situation was turned on its head; that is his wife got pregnant and he didn't want a child many women here would be screaming: 'Her body her choice! He should have thought about that before he married her!' Or some variation thereof.

Well guess what? His body his choice!

He doesn't want to have to get his body up at 2 am to feed a screaming baby. He doesn't want to be forced to use his body to work longer hours to support another person whom he wasn't interested in taking responsibility for in the 1st place. Certainly he doesn't want his body to be locked up in jail if things don't work out with his wife, he falls on hard times, and is unable to stay current with his Child Support obligation.

Since he's been trying to get her pregnant for several years, the wife had reason to believe he wanted to be a parent. "On the fence" can have different interpretations, as Monica said, and actions often speak louder then words.

If the situation here were "turned on its head," it would be the woman refusing to have the baby he desperately wanted, with the man's fertility and/or marketability somehow declining. The subject at hand is not what to do with a fetus that only one parent wants. No one tried to "con" a baby out of anyone.

The wife is distraught because he finalized his unwillingness to be a father at a point in the game where she has few other options.

The LW gives no indication that he is scared of the American court system. You shoehorned that in yourself.

I don't think it's fair to say the LW has changed his mind as such, or that he wasn't honest with his wife (although I did wince at "I thought some parental gene might kick in", a mind-numbingly stupid statement). It sounds like he's given it the old college try at least, and was willing to be a father if they conceived. He's saying "we tried, we failed, I can live with that". She's saying "I can't".

Fertility treatments are expensive and there's no guarantee of success. Adoption isn't a simple process either in most places, and at the very least involves significant intrusion into your personal life. I can't blame him for not wanting to go down either path.

I can't blame him for not wanting to go down either path.

Agreed. A friend of mine wanted children very badly, and she still wasn't willing to put herself through fertility treatments or the adoption process. She made peace with her infertility and moved on. But that wasn't an easy thing to let go of.

I don't find it odd that he doesn't want to go through all that hassle. But it doesn't speak well for him that he doesn't seem to understand his wife's problem.

"I can't blame him for not wanting to go down either path"

+2

Big difference between willing to try to have a baby the ol' fashioned way (which LW did) and willing to invest lots of time, money, emotion, potential heartbreak in IVF or adoption.

Doesn't make LW an asshole at all. LW seems to love his wife and his life. LW's wife is the one who seems to have decided she's been defeated.

Fertility treatments don't start with IVF.

Sometimes, you start by changing your diet or other lifestyle changes.

Once you start the actual treatment:

First you take oral pills for about a week, followed by a shot. This happens for a few months.

Then you take daily shots for a week for several months.

THEN you move on to IVF, which is the famous expensive one. But you don't start with it!

I don't get the guys who don't want to "go through" fertility treatments. You jerk off in a cup once a month.

The very least you could do is whatever the insurance covers.

If it were just jerking off into a cup, no man would have a problem with it. What gives people pause is the financial and emotional toll fertility treatments can take.

Sometimes simple dietary changes or a few shots can solve the problem. But no one knows for sure going into it, because it can take a lot of time and effort just to figure out what the problem is. It could take years of trying and multiple miscarriages to get a baby, and those years aren't fun. Especially when he's coping with the emotional ups and downs of his wife, who might be pumped full of hormones and not the easiest person to deal with. And in the end, they could be broke and childless. And if she's around 40, the odds are stacked against her already.

I've seen fertility treatments completely consume a marriage, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting that to happen.

Again, I think this guy is a bit of a tool, but not because he doesn't want to do fertility treatments.

My ex and I split over this issue. We'd agreed to no kids. Then it became obvious that he did want them, and had hoped all along that I would change my mind.

Sounds a lot like my story, except my ex really did change her mind as she approached 30 and her biological clock kicked in. I still regret that we didn't divorce as soon as this happened, so she would have had time to find someone to have kids with before it was too late.

I believe that some of you are a little too harsh on the guy. Why is a woman who's determined to have kids even with a guy who's "on the fence" about them? Assuming their the same age, a woman 35 years of age determined to have kids has no business with anyone but a man who is similarly determined.

Some of you might suggest that at 35, she was probably didn't think she could find better than "on the fence." No disputing that her marriage pool got significantly smaller at her age and her determination to start a family. But "on the fence" means just that. He could have fallen either way and it was her decision to chance that.

I'm sorry for her, but I don't believe this was his fault … that is, if she knew he was "on the fence" going in.

While it doesn't happen often, I'm in agreement with the bottom-feeding crustacean.

By the way, some of you need to stop thinking with your emotions and use your brains. If he's correct, and she truly sees "no purpose in life without children," then he's not the one with the problem.

If that's really her attitude, the thought of her actually becoming a mother is mildly scary.

jefe- WHERE?