no skool like the old one... the follow up text establishes that texting is a substitute for face time.

At the end of the date look him in the eye [wait a beat] say I had a really good time... then take your leave.

That was face time, and he will never forget your eyes.

Yeah, you could do this with texts, but they disturb the inner monolog in interesting guy's brain:
"Pro's: smells great. Pins you in place with the eyes. Con's: not seein' any. Verdict: Ask her out again!"

We are seeing an upsurge in the regularity of texting substituting for interaction... but the beauty of texting is that you don't have to answer right away...
On the date itself, you don't WANT that kind of interaction.

IFF he misses the hint, perhaps a break in the rule, but not all the time.

Or you'll be writing Amy to ask questions about why a guy broke up with you via texts...

I like the after date "thank you" text and couldn't see how it could be taken the wrong way.

Laying your schedule out there seems a little much, but it certainly wouldn't put me off and would just make things easier. In fact, it's a good idea all around.

These days, the absence of an after date text might even lead me to believe that a woman wasn't interested in seeing me again. It's just become that common.

wD: I like the after date "thank you" text and couldn't see how it could be taken the wrong way.

I do. The thank yous should have come at the end of the date. Can you imagine ending your date and she says, "I had a really great time with you today" (and perhaps showing she was engaged in the conversation by specifically mentioning some particular aspect that she enjoyed, like, "I loved the story you told me about your younger brother."), then arriving at home and discovering you have a text that is yet another communication of what she already said in person?

That would communicate neediness, and it's a huge turn-off.

At the end of my first date with my now husband I said, "Thank you for a wonderful time. Please feel free to call me any time." Simple and covers all bases without being needy or weird. Later, he told me that, that one statement made his day and confirmed his feeling that we had actually had a great time. Guys get nervous too and some encouragement is welcome. Women need to be gracious and welcoming, not needy and rabid.

Except for the fact that some women say they had a nice time out of habit, to be polite, or to fill an akward silence. Guys hear that phrase and then the lady never calls them back. Consequently guys stop putting stock in any conversational pleasantries and judge the date by subjective criteria which might be inaccurate. Its a good idea to reinforce the fact that the LW was in fact sincere. She need only wait a day to send the note to avoid the neediness factor.

First dates are easy to mis-read. A lot of potentially great relationships never begin due to simple misunderstandings, as indicated by the numerous 'why didn't we have a second date' submissions to this site. A follow up note is a common courtesy, not a grasp.

My feelings are irrelevant; as I noted above, we're talking about signaling, not a supposed fear of rejection.

I have been a fan of your columns for over a decade. But I must say you get weirdly personal with even slightly divergent comments. I'm thinking of the guy you went to town on last year for his suggestion that anyone has the right to be informed when our sexual partners contract herpes. You thought it was over hyped. You even questioned the credibility of the Mayo Clinic in that exchange. Odd. Always entertaining though.

Patrick: That would communicate neediness, and it's a huge turn-off.

Amy: Patrick is correct!

Patrick is "correct" in how he would perceive it, or how other men would perceive it. He is not "correct" in how all men would perceive it. As whistleDick noted, he likes an after-date "thank you" text. He does not, apparently, perceive that as communicating neediness. I've received post-date "thank you" emails and I haven't perceived those as communicating neediness.

We don't all judge people in the same way.

That being said, I agree with you, Amy, if a woman acts happy and engaged on a date, and thanks him for a great time at the end of the date, he is clearly going to get the message that she would like to see him again.

P.S. "Zero Thumb Game"...another good one.

"And if you wouldn't pick up the phone and call a man right after he brings you home from a first date to tell him -- again -- what a great time you had, you shouldn't be texting him."

That's a great point and I would've agreed with you whole-heartedly only a few years ago. A text is a different medium altogether and has it's place.

I've been dating quite a lot lately and the after date thank you text really has become the norm. I'm not arguing whether or not this is a good thing or a bad thing. It has become the norm so much so that the absence of it is unusual. This is a very recent development. I've encountered it only within the last two years.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't "have the balls" to ask someone on a second date were it not for the thank you text and I'm not arguing that it's a must. I am saying that it has become so commonplace that it doesn't communicate neediness and it can't hurt.

Plus, I "had the balls" to ask for the first date. Having already passed that evolutionary test, I'm a big fan of clear signals. Don't need them, but like them.

Don't forget, we men who are forty-something, single, fit, and reasonably successful have any number of trees we can bark up. It's a sellers market. It doesn't hurt to be clear and remind us that your tree will bear fruit.

Sorry about the several examples of bad grammar in my post above. I haven't been sleeping well lately.

>Except for the fact that some women say they had a
>nice time out of habit, to be polite, or to fill
>an akward silence.

Exactly. Virtually every woman I've gone on a first date with has said that, yet most don't want to go on second dates.

> Plus, I "had the balls" to ask for the first
> date.

I agree. Asking a woman on a second date is incomparably easier than asking her on the first date. I don't think that is an issue here.

Generalization alert:

I think age has to be taken into account. Millennials are notorious over-communicators. If a 20-something woman will publicly announce what she eats and how she feels at every turn, and constantly texts everyone about everything, but doesn't text a guy after a date, that guy is going to assume she's not interested, no matter what signals she puts out during the date.

Young women almost always put a digital leash on the men they're dating, and by dating I mean their boyfriends, because as far as I can tell, among millenials there are two kinds of romantic relationships: a casual hookup, or an exclusive relationship. 20-somethings don't really date around. If she's interested, not only will she text, she'll text constantly. This is the norm for the age group, and a young woman who deviates from that might intrigue the young man, but just as likely he'll assume her lack of communication as a HELL NO and move on to an easier target. The dating game is hard work, and dating is one thing that a guy's helicopter mom can't do for him.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to milk a telephone pole.

Don't worry so much about whether you're acting desperate, worry about whether you ARE desperate, and if you are, don't be.

After my last boyfriend dumped me I came to the conclusion that I might never meet someone, so instead of waiting for someone to build a life with, I went out and bought a condo and decided to build an adult life for myself.

I bought the condo in November and was married and moving to another state in August.

The point is, build your adult life, whether that means buying real estate, or having a great job, or getting to a place where you can responsibly own a dog, or whatever being a grown-up means to you.

Don't count on the guy before becoming a grown-up or you WILL be desperate. Get your life together.

And don't pine after taken guys.

"Don't worry so much about whether you're acting desperate, worry about whether you ARE desperate, and if you are, don't be"

But if you can't, then fake it ;)

I think the 'signals' you get after a date are so inconsistent as to almost be meaningless (e.g. some women respond positively because they're being polite while other because they're genuinely interested, some women go quiet because they're playing by some rule that you should wait for the guy to contact you, while others because they're not interested, still others might not even be sure ... frankly, unless a women is direct, it's just impossible to really tell) .. so way I see it as man, is simple - if *I* am not interested I don't call again, but if I *am* interested, I figure it's always worth a try asking to see her again. Either she'll decline, or say yes, and on the second date you both get a clearer idea if it's going anywhere or not. If she gets funny about you supposedly getting wrong whatever confused signal she thought she was sending, that usually means she's not a decent person anyway.

For the women, I agree it's best to play it very subtle, but there might be occasional exceptions.

Glad I'm out of the dating game.

My 19-year-old niece and were talking about "modern" dating and texting. (I'm 50 and happily coupled.) For a teen she's unusual in that she hates texting. She made the point that what if texting had been invented *after* the telephone. Everyone would be all like, "Wow! Cool! You can hear the voice and everything!" ;)

The right time to set up a second date is BEFORE you say Goodnight from the first date.

So, next week it will be 8 years since my now husband and I had our 1st date. HE texted me after me parted ways, to let me know that he had a great time and wanted to see me again...I responded back positively and warmly.

Still, a simple "Thanks again, had a great time!" or a smiley from the gal wouldn't be out of line, in my book.

But then, stop. No suggestions of second dates, no sharing of calendars. NO. The ball is clearly in his court.