Being from Montana and hearing a lot of the news of last year, I wouldn't take her on a hike to discuss ANYTHING important. Just saying...

Anyway, you'll lose the ring. It'll get dropped in the dirt or fall into a creek or something. Read about some of the clever proposals of months and years gone by, you'll see what I mean.

If you can't afford both the ring and the plane ticket, propose over Skype. Put some soft music on, light a few candles, and tell her how much she means to you, and how you couldn't wait for her to come home, and that the ring will be waiting for her.

Well if speed and convenience are all that matters to her. Just drag her down to a courthouse right then and marry her with whatever she is wearing.
If she is the type who cares what she is wearing to the wedding, than he is probably the kind who cares how the proposal goes, and he should wait to propose. And maybe change his mind by seeing how she acts between now and then.

Just cut the shit and ask her. Stop trying to be cute.

I can't think of many things dumber than arguing about "when (and if) [you're] going to propose." If you plan to, and she knows you're going to and you're sure the answer is yes, get a clue - it's not a "surprise." The message she's sending you is that she doesn't need to see it on the Jumbotron; she needs to see it. All you're proving to her now is that making a big show to impress your friends with the YouTube video is more important to you than making the commitment to a life with her.

LW,

Tell her "if you want me to propose, come to town tomorrow." This will set your relationship straight.

"I'm ready to propose to my girlfriend."

Translation : she's been anxiously waiting for it for months.

"The thing is, we've been arguing about when (and if) I'm going to propose."

Oh my god. Don't do it. Please don't.

> This runs exactly contrary to our evolved
> psychology -- women looking for men to show they
> are providers, dads and not cads, and will be
> there for them even when the going gets tough.

So why are the inner cities so full of single moms? Why in your other column is a woman in a relationship with her uncle?

All around me I see plenty of women attracted to cads not dads (not all women obviously).

Just Googling around I found this:

http://www.livescience.com/20294-women-choose-bad-boys.html

Women choose bad boys because their hormones make them, new research suggests. When ovulating a woman's hormones influence who she sees as good potential fathers, and they specifically pick sexier men over obviously more dependable men.

"Previous research has shown in the week near ovulation women become attracted to sexy, rebellious and handsome men like George Clooney or James Bond,"....

@Advice Goddess: This would be humiliating to a woman.

"Feeling humiliating" is the last resort of a bitch:
she IS arguing when and if he will be proposing.

BTW, Amy, the veneer of your civility is even thinner than that of a relationship expertise.

To LW:

Oh man!
Tell her to come to town netx day if she wants you to propose at all.
A girl should also show a commitment to you --- commitment should be here on both sides.

If she comes (it means she want to marry you) then there might be a future for your married life together.
If she does not come, ditch the idea of marrying her: she does not want you as a husband but envisions you as a servant. Run!

If you don't take Amy's advice,
maybe consider telling her that you're saving for her ring. That would at least let her know the proposal is coming, if you insist on waiting another few months. If you're telling her that you'll propose "if and when" you're damn good and ready, you're signaling that she's wasting her time with you if she actually wants to get married. If my now-husband hadn't told me that he wanted to marry me eventually (before the actual proposal), I would have moved on after a couple of years. We were engaged in less than two years, though.

The thing is, we've been arguing about when (and if) I'm going to propose. It's starting to get awkward and maybe even hurting our relationship, but I'd hate to ruin the surprise by telling her I'll be proposing in a few months and not to worry.

As Miss Alkon and others have pointed out, the element of surprise is pretty much gone, and what's worse, I suspect your girlfriend might be wondering if you're getting cold feet, or if she's pressuring you into proposing even if you don't want to. Assuming you're as committed as she is, I suggest acting to dispel her potential doubts. If you can afford the ring and a plane ticket, fly out to her right now and take care of business. That ought to put her mind at rest! You can hike together any time.

As I read the comments, I formulated the question "I wonder if Amy gets tired of these commenters posting comments as though they're answering the LW's question, and answer the question so badly, and so thoroughly opposite of her answer? Do they think it's their column?" But you answered my question with:

"I love the cadre of miserable guys who comes here determined to see others join them."

Some of these goofballs need to write their own column and see if they can make a living at it. I would advise them not to quit their day jobs.

I think your advice was very good. The guy simply needed to see that there are many ways to surprise his girlfriend. The hike was a great idea but one that wasn't working in to his time frame.

so, I am not seeing an easy answer here, LW.

If she is across the country, why are you proposing now? Is there are date when she is palnning on moving back? Are you planning on moving there? What does the future look like, from here?

What is she getting upset about? Is it something you've done, or has she demanded it?

This is NOT a moment to rush, without being sure [as sure as you can].

OTOH? IF you HAVE decided you are sure... catch a red-eye and make magic happen. If you've kinda been stalling, be decisive NOW.
Tell her you want to come see her this weekend, find a discout ticket or whatever, take a train, but move mountains to get there.

If she is keen, she and her friend will have something to be giddy about for a few days, and if she reacts oddly?... perhaps you should wait till after she has graduated and moved back.

All the shows and stuff that you've seen about making this whole thing a big deal are BULLS**T.

This is YOU asking a woman to be wedded to you, not some freakin' disney ride. It should be the essence of you that shows, not how cleverly trite you can make yourself be.

All the shows and stuff that you've seen about making this whole thing a big deal are BULLS**T.

This is YOU asking a woman to be wedded to you, not some freakin' disney ride. It should be the essence of you that shows, not how cleverly trite you can make yourself be.

Preach on, Swiss!

I'm confused. The LW plans to propose in late February, and then talks about proposing "in a few months"--but late February is only one month away. How long has this letter been sitting in your files?

If you're in college, you're kind of on the young side to get married. If there are a lot of fights... I dunno. I'm wondering about the maturity level here.

My husband and I are both avid readers of your column, Amy, and your philosophy rings true with us. We think that men and women are equal but different, and we find it makes us both feel necessary and strong in our relationship.

I knew he loved me early on (like within months of meeting him), but I can absolutely relate to getting antsy about a proposal that's taking a little long to show up, and now I'm the sounding board for all my female friends for how they wish THEIR guys would propose (we are all in our 20s or early 30s). What it comes down to absolutely is knowing a guy is serious about commitment and won't back out; I wasted a lot of time with multiple "wrong guys" in my teens and early twenties, but when I found the one I wanted to stay with, it was important to me to make sure we had the same plan for our lives. I never brought it up or argued about it with him, because I had read that pressuring a man to propose is potentially a kiss of death, but I found myself feeling stressed out as the months crept by. I just did my job, found a way to subtly let him know my ring size, and made sure he knew what kind of future I had in mind for the family we both know we want.

It was worth the wait; he proposed almost exactly on the two-year mark by taking me to the location of one of our early dates and proposing with an heirloom ring he'd had modified to better fit my personality. I saw the event itself coming from a mile away, but that was far from the point. I wanted it to happen, I wanted it to be him, and therefore it was perfect and beautiful. If I'd had to wait longer, though, I probably would have exploded or started questioning my options. Once a guy knows a girl will say yes, as any girl who even HINTS at a proposal will, making her wait and wait is just mean.

If the guy loves this girl, he needs to propose. A proposal is not some weird power play where she needs to come crawling to him like some of these knuckleheads seem to believe, and your advice is, as usual, completely spot-on.

"If she is keen, she and her friend will have something to be giddy about for a few days, and if she reacts oddly?... perhaps you should wait till after she has graduated and moved back."

Swiss has a great point. If she really wants you, then any reasonable effort will thrill her. And if she freaks out because you didn't do it "right", then you've learned something about her that should make you reconsider the relationship.

So why do guys stay with women for like years upon years and never propose?

(And I'm talking about women that want to be married)

"So why do guys stay with women for like years upon years and never propose?

(And I'm talking about women that want to be married)
"

Why throughout this discussion do so many consider what the guy wants as completely irrelevant.

If he doesn't want to get married or is undecided and doesn't make it a secret, or if she did make her want secret, why not?

Some people enjoy dating, many of those people don't want to be married.

My husband pretty much blew the proposal. I cried--tears of frustration, not joy--because it was 100% opposite of what I asked him to do--make it emotionally meaningful and express his love for me.

What guys don't get is that every one of our friends asks us, "How did he propose?" I wanted to have something sweet and sentimental, and now every time someone asks me, I get a rush of unpleasant emotion, remembering that day and how little effort he put into it. Ugh.

I'm with Amy on this. The last thing you want is a surprise. You want a nice moment. But a shock or a high stakes proposal like on TV is usually a mistake. Fly out to see her and propose after a nice dinner. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

Ppen

So why do guys stay with women for like years upon years and never propose?

(And I'm talking about women that want to be married)

This depends on age. Over 40, I read this as a fear of commitment. A little pressure and he may propose. Under 30, he doesn't think you are marriageable material. Same pressure and he is out the door. As marriage has become more of a raw deal for men they have started to avoid it. When contracts become lopsided it gets harder to get someone else to sign.

Excellent advice, Amy! I have not been married too long to have forgotten this awkward stage in the relationship: together a long time, happy together, both wanted marriage and kids----and yet waiting what felt like an eternity for the proposal. I was starting to wonder if I was wasting my time, and worried I'd be one of those women who turns 30 with the boyfriend of five years still dragging his feet. It is a wierd dynamic--I couln't bring it up without him feelining presssured and upset, and yet every time he bent down to pick up something my heart lept into my throat pounding "THIS IS IT!!!" and then I'd have to try to hide my dissapointment because I didn't want to be bringing it up again. If he had done something like a suprise visit, I would've been so thrilled. We lived in the same town, but still, anything even remotely thoughtful would've elicited a tearful "yes!"

Peggy, that is so sad. Not that you didn't get the fantasy proposal that you dreamed of, but that you can't see that his asking you to marry him *is* sweet and sentimental.
This man loved you so much (I'm wondering why at the moment) that he asked you to be his wife till the end of his days. That is a HUGE statement and sentiment. And yet you are so hung up on a moment that you are still moping about how much after the fact? Non-appreciative much? Wow.

My fiance asked me to marry him in a freezing cold house after he'd returned from work and I'd been sitting with his dying cat all day. Sure, he could have hired a banner to be flown in the sky. But when and how he asked me told me that he values who I am and the contribution I'll make to his life. That's a pretty big statement and one that'll I'll remember for the rest of my life. I feel very loved. I'm sorry that, for lack of a "moment" you don't.

I think kjm has the sort of attitude helps make relationships work.

The fact that somebody wants to commit to be with you for the rest of their life is a big fucking deal. Whether they rent elephants or not.

That you're arguing about 'if' you might propose sounds a bit odd ... if she's not even sure 'if' you are going to propose, let alone when, she's in a sense forced to already mentally 'imagine' alternative futures without you in them. The more time she spends imagining such scenarios, the easier it becomes for her to let you go, as in effect that process of considering you maybe not being around, is like a form of 'pre-grieving the loss of you'. And once a woman mentally 'grieves your loss', then it's truly over.

@Peggy: On one hand I see your point, I think you felt disappointed because you imagined one thing then got another. But I also agree with kjm and Amy - look at what you DID get, someone who wants to commit to you for life.

Life is full of 'disappointments' like that, relationships especially so (and even more so once you have kids) ... if you're perpetually disappointed that reality fails to match what you imagined/hoped (I'm prone to do the same thing), you might fail to appreciate or enjoy what you DO have. Do you regularly feel disappointed by things he does, or was it mainly that? I've found in my case my disappointment is usually an internal thing to 'me', i.e. I'll be initially angry at my wife, but then when I think about it, I realize I'm really mainly disappointed because things didn't go like I'd hoped, and that usually it wasn't reaally her fault.