Heavy Meddle
Is it okay to keep your income a secret from someone you're dating? I recently started seeing a girl I work with (at an advertising company). She believes women at our company get paid less on average, and I suspect she's right. Yesterday she came right out and asked me how much I make. I'm pretty sure I'm the highest-paid person on our team, but her question made me really uncomfortable, and I told her I make a lot less than I actually do. I felt bad lying to a woman I could get serious with, but I don't want her or other co-workers knowing my salary.
--Johnny Paycheck Privacy
It's normal to keep some personal information secret from the person you're dating - like your exact income or the fact that you belt out Lynyrd Skynyrd in the car every day on your way to work.
Unfortunately, your girlfriend decided it was time to bridge the gap between conversation and colonoscopy. She snookered you into going along by asking you point-blank how much you make. This is really rude -- on the level of yelling across the office, "Hey, Steve, ya still got that weird rash on your balls?" Because of that, it catches a person off guard, leading to a reaction like yours -- stammering out an answer, but not the one the prying person actually deserves: some version of "Up your butt with a coconut."
Maybe she doesn't believe you're entitled to boundaries in a relationship, or maybe she decided she could erase yours for a good cause. And sure, you, like most people, probably want the person you're with to really know you. But really knowing the person you're dating means understanding their hopes and dreams, not having the same information you'd get if you duct-taped yourself to the awning of the ATM just before they deposited their paycheck.
Beyond one of the biggest problems with lying -- the tendency to get caught -- by not standing up for your right to keep select areas of your life private, you're paving the way for future info-hooverings. To dial back your privacy settings, tell her you only revealed your salary because you were so unprepared for her to ask about it. Request that she keep a lid on it, and let her know the boundaries that work for you -- like that the woman in your life has a right to know how much you make when you're sharing a checking account, not a cubicle.
You don't have to turn your pay stub drawer into a petting zoo to show her you care about her concerns. You could offer to help her come up with tactics for negotiating a raise. Keep in mind that research shows that women tend to take the salary, raises, and opportunities they're offered instead of trying to negotiate for more. A book you might get her is "Ask for It: How Women Can Use the Power of Negotiation to Get What They Really Want," by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever. Finally, prepare yourself for being put on the spot by her or anyone with what I call "The Power of Not Right Now" -- recognizing that you can decline to answer a person's question right then and there (perhaps with the exception of inquiries like "You gonna give me your wallet, or do I have to gut you with this rusty screwdriver?").
Totally agree with Amy, that is seriously rude. Unless you're freakin' married, she's got no damn business asking you that. That said, I'd look at that as a red flag. I'd give her only one more, and then I'd give her the boot. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
Flynne at October 21, 2014 7:11 PM
At this point I'm questioning what her motivation for engaging the LW in a relationship really is... is she only interested in mining the LW for information to support her office war?
Cousin Dave at October 21, 2014 7:34 PM
She could move to Norway where by law, all newspapers post your income, debts, and net worth that anyone can search for with just a name.
Kendra at October 21, 2014 9:53 PM
Like Flynne, I'm taking the girl's question as a red flag. Unlike Flynne, I wouldn't give her another one. For Pete's sake: Dating a nosy girl you work with? Can anyone imagine this relationship getting better? Am I alone in thinking this is kind of a bad idea?
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 22, 2014 4:49 AM
Geez, LW, you’re upset because you had to lie? That’s the least of your problems.
You’re dating where you’re working. You’re dating a lady who is already pissed off at the firm. So when she decides to cash in on your firm’s idiot pay-inequality issues, you may find yourself on the business end of a subpoena. While she’s at it, she might as well throw in an inappropriate-sexual-advances cause of action. Kinda supports the pay-inequality claim, no?
Amy’s right. Defend your privacy at your firm. Set boundaries - for everyone else and for yourself too. Don’t play where you work! Break it off.
minos at October 22, 2014 9:18 AM
I agree with minos, this can turn into a sexual harassment suit real quick if the reason you started dating was she was looking to pump you for info
lujlp at October 22, 2014 10:23 PM
Another for minos. While dating at work is common (after all you spend most of your time there) it is also dangerous. Especially with someone who has an axe to grind.
But on this general point if you are using a dating website and are a man you better list your income range. I was on OKCupid for years. Women will not talk with a man who doesn't list his income. Period. End of story. After listing my income it didn't take me long to find my wife.
And there is nothing wrong with lying down on income. Lying up can get you in trouble some times but down rarely will.
Ben at October 23, 2014 7:23 AM
Was thinking the same thing as Minos.
Also her asking/you answering could be against company rules, since it breeds discontentment.
As to an answer to how much you make. I tend to confuse people when I actually do answer, I answer net not gross pay. I believe that is the truer answer. It doesn't matter if one is grossing 80k or 70k if they are both bringing home 50k.
Joe j at October 23, 2014 10:02 AM
I'll do minos one better. You shouldn't date where you work, period. Even if she weren't already hostile toward the company, if the relationship goes bad, you're going to find yourself sharing office space with someone you're bitter towards.
When looking for a date, the workplace is not it. Ever.
That said, Amy's right. Your answer to a question about how much money you make is (with varying degrees of politeness, depending on how much you wish to piss off Miss Nosy Parker), "None of your business."
Patrick at October 23, 2014 3:31 PM
To counter Ben's comment above, I met my husband on Match.com, and I never asked him his income, nor did he list a range on his profile.
Peggy Y at October 24, 2014 9:07 AM
You are a scholar and a saint Peggy. But I have to tell you from the man's side it is almost impossible to meet someone on a dating website without providing income. Of course nothing says those numbers have to be accurate. But plausible does help.
Ben at October 24, 2014 1:58 PM
Is it okay to keep your income a secret from someone you're dating?
Yes.
Ben: But I have to tell you from the man's side it is almost impossible to meet someone on a dating website without providing income.
I'm sure that's true. Women like Peggy are probably a very rare exception.
It also wouldn't surprise me that the higher the income listed by a man on a dating site, the more women he attracts.
JD at October 25, 2014 1:08 PM
Not actually true JD. As I said it has to be plausible. If you claim to make $100k/year and show up for a date in a 1992 corolla wearing flipflops all you've done is advertised you are a liar. Most people stretch it a bit. $50k becomes $60k. The same with height. People tend to pad a few inches. Women tend to take a few years off.
Lying down isn't as much of an issue after a first date. But it can make it harder to get that first date.
And the worst thing is to list no income at all. Women are interested in high income men. It is just a fact of life. And not listing an income gives the impression of being a pajama boy living in your mothers basement at 30. Which is a fair concern.
Ben at October 25, 2014 1:22 PM
If you claim to make $100k/year and show up for a date in a 1992 corolla wearing flipflops all you've done is advertised you are a liar.
Yes, you likely are, but I wasn't talking about a man's ability to attract women once he shows up like that for a date. I was talking about his ad.
And, to further clarify my "the higher the income listed by a man on a dating site, the more women he attracts" comment, yes, even on the ad it has to be plausible. I doubt many women are going to believe a guy on, say, a Craigslist ad who says he makes $2 million a year.
We're not in disagreement here. I agree that women tend to be interested in high-income men.
Women tend to take a few years off.
And many pounds.
JD at October 25, 2014 7:55 PM
I have to disagree with those who are hating on dating when it comes to the workplace. My last job had 8-10 couples (out of an office of less than 200) who had met there. Not all of them lasted, but the proportion of those that did was higher than average. And yes, it was sometimes uncomfortable for people to work with their ex, but everyone handled it like adults. People spend a big chunk of their life at work and often it is where you can meet someone you really know something about.
jenga at October 28, 2014 1:14 AM
I worked at a company similar to Jenga's: as many as 7 couples at a time in a company of 200 to 500 people depending on the state of the economy. Some of them are no longer together, but not a single one split up while both were still working there--including the one where the husband was openly cheating with other women in the same company.
I met my wife there, and also my fiance before her. Another guy met both his wives there.
As Jenga says, you know a lot more about someone you meet at work than just about any other way. They can lie through their teeth on a Match.com profile and put up a false front on a first date, but they can't hide their flaws every weekday for months.
Rex Little at November 2, 2014 10:51 PM
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