You've Got Bail
I am not attracted to "nice guys." I'm in my early 30s, and I don't think I have low self-esteem. I don't like to be mistreated, either. In fact, I want somebody loving and faithful, but I find the guys I "should" be dating predictable and boring. (So cliche, I know.) I seem to end up dating guys who cheat on me and have problems with the law. Is there such a thing as a good man who's also a bad boy?
--Longing
When you date a "bad boy," there are always adjustments to be made, like getting adjusted to how he's sleeping with three of your friends.
It's easy to go unrealistic in looking for love. On the gooier side of romantic unrealism are the people determined to find their "soulmate." (No such perfect partner actually exists -- just somebody they're compatible with in essential ways.) You, on the other hand, seem to be drawn to a guy who's had a cellmate. Women very often go for bad boys out of low self-esteem, but you insist this isn't your problem. If not, maybe you aren't ready for a relationship and are going for guys who'll crash and burn what you have together before you get itchy to get out. But it seems more likely that you're an excitement junkie, turning to bad boys because they're reliable providers of it -- the obvious downside being that they steal not only your heart but also your wall clock, which they sell to buy cigarettes.
Most people will tell you they like excitement, but chances are you have a strong aversion to the dull and routine and a craving for excitement and variety -- to the point where your comfort zone is more the end of the bungee cord than the end of the couch. If you do feel this way, you're likely a high scorer in a personality trait that researcher Marvin Zuckerman deemed "sensation seeking," which involves a lust for novel, complex, and intense sensations and experiences and a willingness to take physical and social risks to get them.
Sensation seeking appears to have a strong biological basis. So if this is part of your makeup, it's not like you can just decide to take up with the nearest accountant (that is, one who isn't embezzling from the mob). What you can do is look for good guys who have some of the positive qualities bad boys do, like confidence, charisma, creativity, spontaneity, and a wicked sense of humor. They won't be easy to find, but consider that every bad boy you're with sets you back from getting together with a good guy who also meets your need for speed. To keep yourself from taking any further dips in the felon pool, figure out alternative ways to get your excitement needs met (skydiving, tsunami-surfing, regular shortcuts through dark alleys?). This should free you up to meet the sort of guy who figures he's justified in using the carpool lane because he's pulling you behind his car on Rollerblades, not because he's got a couple of bank tellers tied up in the trunk.
As Amy points out, there are guys located between "bad boy" and "boring." I call them the "Uncle Jesses".
sofar at February 3, 2015 5:07 PM
Great advice.
Lobster at February 4, 2015 1:53 AM
I really identified with this question and Amy's answer. I, too, had a history of picking the wrong guys until I met my husband and he talked me into dating him. He, too, has his wicked side... spent a night in jail for shooting off fireworks on a firework-related holiday... but he also holds down a responsible, well-paying job and owns a home. He loves to travel, loves fine food and wine, and will go out of his way to enjoy live music. I recently accompanied him on a sky-diving trip as the audience. It is possible to find a guy with confidence, charisma, creativity, spontaneity, and a wicked sense of humor who isn't a felon. Keep looking, OP!
cp_deb at February 4, 2015 8:34 AM
I hope you mean a really young Uncle Jesse? He was a moonshiner, I guess that qualifies one as a bad boy. But sexy?
Or did you seriously just admit to being a fan of full house?
smurfy at February 4, 2015 10:46 AM
maybe it's yourself you actually need to be working on... if you're bored, then you're boring.
Instead of looking for the next guy who sets your panties on fire, why don't you learn to look for yourself. What excitements do YOU actually like? Those badboys are actually just as dull and predictable as boring old Mr. Normal, just in a different way.
Perhaps you should identify what way that is, and see if it's a must have.
A lot of guys that are surprising, or bad, are really quite selfish... they surprise, because they ask for unexpected things, which no regular person would ask for.
Sometimes it's an amusing thing, and sometimes?
Remember that sometimes guys with law troubles also beat people up, and that could be you.
Without a doubt, this issue is within you. Figuring out what gets your motor running will get you ready for the guy that does that, even if he is "nice"...
Without knowing that, you will always be chasing something you can't really identify.
Doing that, you could wind up with trouble, or in the hospital. If you're lucky just broke with a new STD.
SwissArmyD at February 4, 2015 12:57 PM
Bad boys are the kind you have on the side when on solo trips away from the good guy at home.
zapf at February 4, 2015 3:41 PM
Duh. Of COURSE its Uncle Jesse from Full House. The ultimate bad boy with the soft side who loves kids and drives a motorcycle. And lives in the attic. That always did trip me up, right there.
gooseegg at February 4, 2015 9:22 PM
Maybe you should try dating a geologist. The bad boys of science.
La Burrita at February 4, 2015 10:45 PM
@Smurfy I should have specified: Uncle Jesse from Full House. I am a child of the 80s. John Stamos was (and still is) a stud, once he got rid of the mullet. Have mercy!
And lives in the attic. That always did trip me up, right there.
But before that, he lived in Stephanie's old room and KEPT THE PINK BUNNIES on the wall because her mom put them there. D'aaaaaw!
sofar at February 5, 2015 7:26 AM
Is there such a thing as a good man who's also a bad boy?
Yep, and they already got married years ago
lujlp at February 5, 2015 10:34 AM
"Or did you seriously just admit to being a fan of full house?"
Could be worse. Could be the Uncle Jesse from The Dukes of Hazzard!
Radwaste at February 5, 2015 7:37 PM
Well Swiss captured it perfectly. I have never ever liked "bad boys" maybe because the majority of young men in my mothers family were 6'3" bad boys who I was close to and they seemed exhausting to be in romantic relationships with. The military cleaned them up some, including my brother but it took until he was about 32 to be a consistent and not an ill tempered asshole.
The women on the other hand were gorgeous and cruel crazy and I sure as hell never understood the appeal in that either but I have had a few men on this blog explain the allure.
Both groups are predictable and they attract people who love that love/hate garbage and aren't that interesting in and of themselves or just have some martyr complex where they have no borders and find it exciting when people cross them.
Sure young women and young men go out with one or two and learn their lesson but really I side eye anyone who loves that shit as a grown adult, male or female alike.
And yes most of my male relatives cleaned their act up but why would you want to stick around until they might? They will be a fucking pain in the ass.
Ppen at February 6, 2015 7:30 AM
Okay am I the only one for whom the term "uncle jesse" generated images -- not of anything Full House related -- but of an aging Denver Pyle from "The Dukes of Hazzard"?
Not my idea of date material, but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Wallawallawanda at February 6, 2015 9:11 AM
Wallawalla, You're not the only one, I think I heard of a show full house but never watched it.
I see the nice vs bad boy as more of a mixed up spectrum that every woman has a different idea of where to draw the lines.
But even with that people are rarely one dimensional. Many have their work life and their non work life which don't seem to go together but do.
Joe J at February 6, 2015 10:52 AM
Ppen: The women on the other hand were gorgeous and cruel crazy and I sure as hell never understood the appeal in that either but I have had a few men on this blog explain the allure.
I can't speak for other guys but, for me, the allure is the sexy, not the crazy (or mean.) Most of the women I've been with have been good people, and that's what I'm attracted to. But I'm also attracted to women who are very sexy. I've been with three women like this. None of them were very nice people but I put up with their character deficits -- for a while -- because they were so hot in bed.
It's not that the good women I've been with were boring or bad in bed. Not at all. But they simply weren't as red-hot and uninhibited as these three women. I'm sure there are women who are good people and are scorchingly sexy. However, I have yet to meet one.
JD at February 6, 2015 1:49 PM
Robert Glover (see the links above) suggests that the opposite of a Nice Guy is NOT a "Bad Boy", because they both have serious issues-- he uses the term "Integrated Male"... not very catchy, perhaps, but it's the best I've seen.
I also totally agree with Swiss-- nobody should be looking for another person to bring happiness and fulfillment-- those are things you find within yourself. If it ain't there, you're not going to get it from your partner.
jefe at February 6, 2015 2:14 PM
I’d Rather Cry Over An Assh*le Than Date A Guy Who Bores Me To Tears:
http://elitedaily.com/dating/date-a-guy-who-bores-me-to-tears/918320/
"I’ll always take an assh*le over a square. I’ll take a sh*t in the pot over nothing. I’ll take a guy who’s going to bring me to tears over one who’s just going to bore me to them."
Snoopy at February 7, 2015 8:20 AM
Is there such a thing as a good man who's also a bad boy?
According to Tim McGraw, there is.
Rex Little at February 7, 2015 9:08 AM
@"I’d Rather Cry Over An Assh*le Than Date A Guy Who Bores Me To Tears"
That's nice and all, except to the extent that there are so many unhappy women (and men) out there who want their relationships to work but are incapable of making them work and divorce rates are sky-high and we have so many shattered homes .. because of all these sorts of immature self-indulgent post-hoc rationalizations for bad decisions and bad philosophies.
Of course a guy shouldn't "bore you to tears", but there's a huge amount of middle ground between "asshole" and so-boring-it-makes-you-cry .. the article frames its premise in a false dichotomy.
Lobster at February 9, 2015 3:41 AM
I don't think I'm a "bad boy," per se, but I am a lot more spontaneous and fun loving than my rather staid and unimaginative wife. She claims I keep things interesting.
However, if the LW thinks that she's going to find a genuine bad boy with that dangerous edge who's going exclude her from the screwing he gives everybody else in his life, she's going to be disappointed. And if she enjoys that part, well, I might question her claim "I don't think I have low self-esteem. I don't like to be mistreated, either." Sounds more like she wants to have her cake and steal it, too, and it doesn't work that way.
Grey Ghost at February 13, 2015 7:53 AM
LW sounds like my stepdaughter, who has dated, and sometimes married, many "bad boys" - and every one turned out to be a parasite. There are better ways to get some excitement.
markm at February 26, 2015 5:00 PM
As for Uncle Jesse, of course I thought of the Dukes of Hazzard. I don't think I ever could stand to watch even one episode of Full House.
markm at February 26, 2015 5:02 PM
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