Western Civ Got You Down? Well, Move.
A mosque has issues with a nearby restaurant serving alcohol, writes Jessie Pounds in the Knoxville News:
Building owner Trevor Hill wants to offer alcoholic drinks along with home-cooking-style dinner and lunch menus, and he hopes to launch the eatery in about a week. He'll keep the restaurant open as late at night as is still profitable in hope of appealing to the young residents of Fort Sanders, where the building is located.The possibility that the restaurant could serve as a local drinking hangout bothers mosque attendees like board member Nadeem Sidiqqi.
Islam prohibits the consumption of alcohol, but Sidiqqi said the protest isn't an attack on drinking in general, just a call for buffer zones for religious establishments.
"People may say 'we may not want to go to this mosque' if it's not a good environment," Sidiqqi said. "You want an area where you can bring your kids or your family."
Hill counters that mosque-goers are unlikely to be disturbed by noise or patrons from his restaurant. The entrances are on opposites sides of the two buildings, and Hill said that he has offered to work with mosque board members during the holy period of Ramadan, when Knoxville-area Muslims often pray at the mosque late into the night.
Hill feels he is being unjustly targeted.
"I've taken a building that's been a total eyesore ... really gone out on a limb and taken a risk for the benefit of the Fort Sanders community," he said, explaining that he has a mortgage and roughly a $1 million investment in the building. "It's not fair for me to be discriminated against any more than it is for them to be discriminated against."
The two buildings are 191 feet apart, though the distance between their front doors is longer.
Here's a solution for you: Relocate the mosque to Saudi Arabia, or someplace else where they already have Sharia law in place (instead of waiting until Muslims can take over America and convert or kill the rest of us, per the Quran's command). Sadly, your wife will have to walk around in a pup tent and your gay son will probably be shot, hung, or stoned. Them's the breaks, I guess!
Here's Robert Spencer, blogging the Quran, on the convert or kill stuff (and do note that Quran is supposed to be taken literally):
Then comes the notorious Verse of the Sword, containing the injunction to "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them (v. 5). This is, understandably, a verse much beloved by present-day jihadists. In a 2003 sermon, Osama bin Laden rejoiced over this verse: "Praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the Sword to his servant and messenger [the Prophet Muhammad], in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood."Ibn Juzayy notes that v. 5 abrogates "every peace treaty in the Qur'an," and specifically abrogates 47:4's directive to "set free or ransom" captive unbelievers. According to As-Suyuti, "This is an Ayat of the Sword which abrogates pardon, truce and overlooking" - that is, perhaps the overlooking of the pagans' offenses. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that the Muslims must "slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam."
...Thus even Muslims who do not fulfill Islamic obligations fall into the category of those who must be fought. This is a principle that latter-day Salafist movements apply broadly and use frequently in branding governments that do not rule according to strict Islamic law as unbelievers who must be fought by those who regard themselves as true Muslims. This is playing out now in the Salafist revolt against Musharraf's Pakistan, and to a lesser degree in Egypt against Mubarak and even in Saudi Arabia against the House of Saud.
via Insty
IIRC, lots of Midwestern (USA) cities have rules about bars within, say 500 feet of churches and schools.
(Never bothered to walk directly to a bar from church or from school, so can't vouch for the enforcement.)
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at April 6, 2009 2:20 AM
@Crid "IIRC, lots of Midwestern (USA) cities have rules about bars within, say 500 feet of churches and schools.
Good point. And if Knoxville has similar rules, apply them as written. From what the news story says, it looks like that's what the city government is doing now; the Knoxville ABC office is recommending state approval of Hill's liquor license application. It will be interesting to see what happens in Nashville within the coming weeks.
old rpm daddy at April 6, 2009 5:05 AM
Poor guy doesn't have a big enough lobbying budget to make the zoning issues obligingly go away. We have a Walmart here in town that is 200 feet from a daycare, which is granted the same buffer zone as churches. The WalMart sells both alcohol and ammunition. No guns, just ammo. There was a fatal shooting in the Walmart 8 years ago, ironically by a woman to whom they refused to sell ammo, for lack of a valid FOID card.
I think someone on the zoning board realized that particular Walmart made more money selling alcohol and ammo in a week than the little daycare did all year.
Juliana at April 6, 2009 5:36 AM
To be perfectly honest, I may have once (or twice) walked directly from a church or school to a bar, but the important thing is that i didn't count the paces.
One of the cultures that's having the roughest times assimilating is Muslim immigrants is also one that's having a rough time dealing with public drunkeness.
Maybe there isn't a connection, but maybe there is....
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at April 6, 2009 5:38 AM
Oops. Clarification; comparing WalMart's taxable revenues from alcohol and ammo sales to the daycare's taxable revenues from childcare, not also selling alcohol and ammo. (blush)
Juliana at April 6, 2009 5:38 AM
We shouldn't pretend these behaviors have no downside, just because we down want Islam to shut down access to them.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at April 6, 2009 5:42 AM
Actually, Juliana, a daycare center that sells alcohol is kind of an intriguing business model, and would probably fill a market niche. Assuming the sales were to the parents, I mean.
old rpm daddy at April 6, 2009 5:52 AM
Margaritas and Old Fashions for mummy, but benadryl cocktail for the kiddies....really, officer it's for his seasonal allergies, I swear!
juliana at April 6, 2009 6:51 AM
Well the one I always wanted to open is a Bar, Laundromat and Tune-up shop.
Start your laundry and have a drink while doing it. I bet you would have a lot of guys willing to go out and do laundry on a Sunday. ;-)
Jim P. at April 6, 2009 7:38 AM
The next thing they'll be asking for is that all women who walk near the mosque be made to wear the pup tent because they will tempt the pure men who are inside.
If Muslim men have such a problem with temptations of any kind (alcohol, women), they shouldn't be allowed to leave the house without supervision-oh wait, that's what they do to women. Kind of mixed up aren't they?
I personally find it offensive when I see a Muslim family on public transit, and the man is dressed Western, the woman is in a complete pup tent, and the 3 year old girls are wearing head scarves, to avoid tempting men, I guess. Either they both should comply with religious dress codes (he should be covered up too), or they should all dress Western.
Chrissy at April 6, 2009 9:01 AM
Actually, Jim P., where I went to college there was an outfit called "Suds 'n' Duds" that pretty much did just that- they served beer and nachos in half the place, had a laundromat in the other half.
It was really popular, too.
They should have put in a JiffyLube, too.
Lynne at April 6, 2009 9:11 AM
They should have put in a Jiffy Lube, too.
Figure that even with a long line -- your oil change will be less than forty minutes. If someone gets that schnockered, they should know better anyway.
And as always -- location, location, location. ;-)
Jim P. at April 6, 2009 9:42 AM
Lots of municipalities have ordinances restricting alcohol sales within a certain distance from a house of worship. I can't see any reason why a mosque should be treated differently from a synagogue, say, or a Methodist church.
Larry McKenna at April 6, 2009 9:53 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/04/06/western_civ_got.html#comment-1641822">comment from Larry McKennaIf you want to separate your religious house from a bar, buy a big enough lot or a remote enough lot that they won't put in a bar near you.
Amy Alkon
at April 6, 2009 9:57 AM
@Ms Alkon: "If you want to separate your religious house from a bar, buy a big enough lot or a remote enough lot that they won't put in a bar near you."
Which changes the nature of the question from "Should we worry about offending Muslims?" to "Should the ordinances concerning alcohol sales in proximity to a house of worship be changed or eliminated?" Either way, city zoning ordinances seem central to the question.
I do wonder, though, would the whole event have been newsworthy if it had been a Christian congregation that had been offended?
old rpm daddy at April 6, 2009 10:22 AM
Maybe I'm just a backwards hillbilly in a big city blog, but a church should welcome a bar next door. It's a great ministry opportunity, and they can probably share a parking lot too. It would also be convenient for wedding receptions.
Pseudonym at April 6, 2009 11:37 AM
Millbrook Baptist Church is the reason that Hooters can't open in southern Aiken, SC.
Face it. Churches can't stand any competition. Girls are just as evil to Baptists as they are to Islam. Check the history of witch burnings.
Radwaste at April 6, 2009 11:39 AM
Municipalities all have their own laws on buffer zones. If this city has one, the bar owner should've researched better before investing. If they don't, the muslims need to shut up.
'Well the one I always wanted to open is a Bar, Laundromat and Tune-up shop."
We have that here :) also the Alamo Drafthouse, best movie theatre ever! Dinner, drinks, and a movie all at the same time. Very time efficient for those of us with babysitters on the clock.
momof3 at April 6, 2009 11:54 AM
Those Baptists sure are trouble, Rad! Why, didn't you read that story in the Times just last week about how they stoned those fornicatin' harlots down in South Carolina?
old rpm daddy at April 6, 2009 1:04 PM
This one's for you Crid~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNTEtI6iToM
Eric at April 6, 2009 2:22 PM
blecccccchhhhhhhhhhhhh
This page has been going downhill ever since there was a big picture o' poopoo on the front.
Wouldn't you rather look at pics of something curvaceous but slender-waisted, with gently varying swells across the front, presented in an endlessly charming array of colors and ages? Something that could really sing to your soul?
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at April 6, 2009 6:52 PM
Aren't these the same guys who have hash bars, but execute you if you drive drunk? Maybe that's only certain Islamic countries, the same ones who chop your dick off if you rape someone. Hell hath to fury like a religious zealot scorned.
Norman L. at April 6, 2009 7:49 PM
"Maybe that's only certain Islamic countries, the same ones who chop your dick off if you rape someone."
No, you've got that backwards. If you rape someone, she gets stoned for having sex with someone to whom she is not married.
Steamer at April 7, 2009 9:16 AM
Steamer,
I don't think so.
Norman L. at April 7, 2009 4:34 PM
Norman L, Steamer is not being ironic.
See this, via A&LD.
(I didn't follow the links to the video, have no stomach for such things. The text is horrific enough.)
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at April 7, 2009 7:14 PM
It's pretty obvious that all the men involved are very sexually aroused by the beating of this teenage girl. Sex is a strong drive, and if it is repressed completely, it will come out in very disturbing ways. It's like people on a starvation diet who think about food constantly, and if they're actually starving to death, they'd eat dirt, dead people, garbage.
Lovely topic.
Chrissy at April 8, 2009 12:32 PM
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