Right Idea, Wrong Fucking Response
Ivana Trump got thrown off a plane after somebody's (or somebodies') brats were running up and down the aisles screaming and she called them "little fuckers" and told other passengers (probably those who told her off) "fuck you." Joe Kemp writes for the NY Daily News:
Trump, 60, became even more belligerent when flight attendants on the New York-bound plane tried to calm her from yelling at the children, officials said."She was so belligerent toward other passengers and crew that the plane returned to the terminal," said Teri Barbera, the PBSO spokeswoman.
Sheriff's deputies asked the socialite and designer to voluntarily exit the plane, but she refused and was escorted off.
Oh, and yes, according to the Sun-Sentinel, she was seated in first class at the time. Apparently, these underparented curs were given the run of the plane.
As I write in my book, I SEE RUDE PEOPLE, the moment you pull out out the "F" word in a public confrontation, you're, well, fucked. But, as I wrote in my recent LA Times op-ed on screaming children on planes, she wasn't wrong in concept -- to expect parents to, you know, actually parent their crotch fruit.
Cussing at kids is so declasse. You'd think money might possibly could have bought her exposure to people with a little class. Guess not.
The kids shouldn't've been running the aisles, true. But she's worse than them, with her response.
momof4 at December 27, 2009 6:17 AM
I wonder if dropping the F-bomb was her first response, or if it came after other attempts to get the kids to cool it. I also wonder whose kids they are that they were allowed to run up and down the aisles, and in first class no less, without the flight attendants putting an immediate stop to it. These are presumably the same flight attendants that scold seatbelt and tray table violators.
Beth at December 27, 2009 6:58 AM
I don't understand how if the plane had to return to the gate to eject her, any children were running around aisles. The seatbelt light is on and everyone should be seated. I don't think she should be calling kids fuckers or screaming at them, but I do wonder why these children and their parents are blameless in the press and according to the airline. As a mother, this is a serious safety issue and my kids would be seatbelted in!
Kristen at December 27, 2009 7:08 AM
Parent their "crotch fruit". LOL I love it Amy, I'll have to use that one in the future! You always come up with some good stuff.
Mike Hunter at December 27, 2009 7:24 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/12/27/right_idea_wron.html#comment-1684836">comment from KristenAgree, Kristen!
Amy Alkon at December 27, 2009 7:24 AM
Ivana Trump flys commercial? Even first class commercial?
Didn't see that coming.
Steve Daniels at December 27, 2009 8:18 AM
Kristen, that was my question...why weren't the kids belted in their seats? I also wonder if the F bomb was dropped after a considerable amount of time had passed with no resolution to the problem. She was probably thinking, as I was, if the underparented "crotch fruit" were like this prior to take-off, what would the rest of the flight be like!
Sara at December 27, 2009 8:22 AM
Let's see. Along with "crotch fruit" we have "fuck trophy", "cunt nugget", "spawn", "recombinant DNA", "crib lizards", "sprog", and "Chyuldrunn!"
I think that will do for now.
Steve Daniels at December 27, 2009 8:32 AM
"Ivana Trump flys commercial? Even first class commercial? Didn't see that coming."
If so, it's only because you believed what you saw in the media, determined to show you how "the rich" think they're so much better than you.
Newsflash: the rich are better than the non-rich - at handling money. They don't stay rich by spending either their own $$ or by wasting any. I'm sure there are still people mad at GM and Chrysler execs for flying company jets to DC, in total compliance with the charter of their corporation, but that's just a combination of class envy and ignorance. That has burned real people as witches in slightly different form.
Radwaste at December 27, 2009 8:42 AM
Amy, I think I'm in love with you! Well, no, not really but "crotch fruit"? I love it! I received your book "I See Rude People" for Christmas and have read it cover-to-cover already. And I usually take weeks to read a book. I received it because anyone who knows me knows how frustrated I am with how rude people have become. Thanks for having the cahones (no, I do NOT think you're a tranny! ;-) ) to say what I've been thinking for years.
Brenda Thomas at December 27, 2009 8:50 AM
"Newsflash: the rich are better than the non-rich - at handling money."
The Donald has his own plane, with his name plastered all along the side. It's like a 737 or something. He was bragging that it actually cost less than a Lear or a . . . ok, I'm not in the market and don't know all the names, but one of those really expensive biz jets, and can carry a lot more people.
So, unless he sold it to buy a deli or something, Mrs. The Donald probably had options.
Steve Daniels at December 27, 2009 9:04 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/12/27/right_idea_wron.html#comment-1684859">comment from Steve DanielsMrs. Donald hasn't been named Ivana for years. One of the articles said she's divorcing her current husband, some guy with a frothy Italian name.
Amy Alkon at December 27, 2009 9:32 AM
Not to pour cold water on this, but we're a family of five, and thanks to stupidity on the part of airlines, we can almost never get seats together. It's a little tough to police kids when your seats are separated by 10 rows. And thanks very much to the fuckers who are sitting in the seats nearby who don't feel like swapping seats - don't put on your pissy face if the kids start talking.
Personally, I'm much more offended by the overweight, smelly slobs who feel that my seat belongs to them, by the twits who bring a steamer trunk as carry-on luggage and expect me to give up my space in the overhead bin, by the yapping boor on his/her cell phone, by the garrulous bore who wants to know my life story, and so on.
I might also add that those kids for whom you express such disdain will be paying for your retirement, so have a little fucking gratitude.
orthodoc at December 27, 2009 9:40 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/12/27/right_idea_wron.html#comment-1684862">comment from Brenda ThomasThank you so much, Brenda. I hope you'll consider posting a review on Amazon. Strangely, almost nobody has reviewed my book yet (professional reviewers, I mean), although I truly appreciate all the reviews people have posted on Amazon (save for some Santa Monica-based nutbag named Tracy Frank [Bookworm222], who met me and must've had me tell her to stop yammering into her cell phone or something. She made it clear in her initial "review" that she hadn't read my book -- simply dislikes me -- and posted and kept reposting some grudge review, after Amazon kept removing it, and even tracked down and wrote to my agent. She's a former cancer patient and did the same to another author, named Jani Frank, whose blog comment she didn't quite like. Nasty stuff. A few people posted disputing comments on her "review," but the one-star brings down my total ranking.)
Amy Alkon at December 27, 2009 9:41 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/12/27/right_idea_wron.html#comment-1684863">comment from orthodocI might also add that those kids for whom you express such disdain will be paying for your retirement, so have a little fucking gratitude.
Oh, please. You had children because you were either careless with birth control five times or because you felt children benefited you and your husband or wife.
I have been paying for rich old people's health care throughout my working life, and there's a good chance the system will be entirely broken by the time I am of "retirement" age. (I plan to keep writing until I become incoherent, at which point, if I have dementia approaching, I will probaby take an overdose of pills.)
If your children are in the feral stage, keep them home or travel in the minivan. If they cannot behave like little ladies and gentlemen unless you are seated next to them, same advice.
People who take up more than one seat should buy more than one seat, rather than spilling into others' seats. I have never been seated next to a person who was "smelly." Does this happen often to you? Has it EVER happened?
I'm also offended by people who bring body bag-sized carryons on board and expect me to give up my tiny space in the overhead to accomodate their overuse of the plane's shared space. Shared space. Meaning you don't get to take it over with your flab, your children who aren't ready to be appropriately quiet, seated and well-behaved, etc.
My gratitude, by the way, is reserved by people who don't tell me I should be grateful for their children, but who care enough to raise children who are polite and considerate in public, and who take steps to not bring those children places they aren't ready to be.
Amy Alkon at December 27, 2009 9:57 AM
"Mrs. Donald hasn't been named Ivana for years. One of the articles said she's divorcing her current husband, some guy with a frothy Italian name."
Ah, well.
I get all my celebrity news whilst waiting in the checkout line at Safeway. Did you know that Jen Jen isn't happy? Poor Jen Jen.
Steve Daniels at December 27, 2009 10:16 AM
Perhaps you missed the part about the airlines not being able or willing to put seats together for families. And a family of five means two adult, three kids. So I'll overlook your rejoinder about birth control. In any case, my children are well past the feral stage.
My point, which you seemed to miss, is that there are any number of ways in which people packed together can offend. And if you have never been seated next to someone who offends by encroachment either physically, accoustically, or olfactorally, may I say you lead a charmed life.
orthodoc at December 27, 2009 10:19 AM
Depending on the details, a private plane can be more economical than flying commercial, especially when you have to make multiple stops on a tight schedule, as is frequently the case for a group of corporate executives. The one time I've flown private, though, it was not even close to as nice as when I've flown first class. So it doesn't surprise me that Ivana Trump might fly commercial from time to time; they really do treat you like royalty if you're willing to pay for it.
Pseudonym at December 27, 2009 10:30 AM
>> I might also add that those kids for
>> whom you express such disdain will be
>> paying for your retirement, so have
>> a little fucking gratitude.
> Oh, please.
Everybody, let's do the Cabbage Patch!
Go A-my! (beat) Go A-my! (beat) Go A-my! (beat)
> there are any number of ways in
> which people packed together
> can offend.
And the offenses given by travelling children are completely unnecessary. They indicate nothing so much as a failed execution of parental responsibility.
Or maybe even backhanded aggression: What else could with think of a parent who offer's as an excuse: 'Hey, they'll be taxpayers someday, so you oughta put up with it?'
You actually used the expression 'a little fucking gratitude'.
Seriously, wtf are you thinking? Gratitude? For children who're already being taught the the feelings and needs of others aren't important?
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 11:43 AM
What's this about the airlines' not seating families together? Whenever we've flown with our kids, we made sure to book early enough to get seats together. It was never a problem. Orthodoc, did you book late, when the choice seats were already taken? And if yes, how's that the airline's fault?
kishke at December 27, 2009 11:45 AM
So what. I'm paying for their grandparents' retirement. So, unless the parents of these unruly urchins want to make room for grandma and grandpa in the guest room, they owe me a little consideration.
Conan the Grammarian at December 27, 2009 12:03 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/12/27/right_idea_wron.html#comment-1684886">comment from Conan the GrammarianWhat Conan said.
Amy Alkon at December 27, 2009 12:10 PM
Some of you talk about kids the way klansmen talk about blacks and jews.
It is not attractive, or witty.
Spartee at December 27, 2009 12:34 PM
When flying back home to visit our families for the holidays, we had two kids sitting behind us, in the 4-6 year range. During the last half of the 5-hour flight back East, the kids were giving us involuntary lumbar massages kicking the our seat backs. I turned around and noted that the kids were on one side of the aisle, their parents on the other, headphones on, ignoring the kids.
I spoke to the father - politely - and asked if he could keep his daughters from kicking the backs of our seats. His response, was a bit of a shrug, like "what can I do?" and telling me that their legs were a bit short for the seats, and they needed to use our seats to avoid sliding down in their seats. "What can I do?" – You're the parent, figure it out! Still polite, I told him that I didn't want to be difficult, but that it was disruptive, and asked him to try to solve the problem. His solution: sit behind me (a start!) and then let the kids run up and down the aisle vaulting off the armrests of the everyone's seats along the way.
Epic parenting fail.
Whatever at December 27, 2009 1:25 PM
> It is not attractive, or witty.
You know why I like blog comments, a rhetorical environment which Seipp's friends used to call a "sewer"?
Because there exists in the human heart, or at least in the coddled American heart, the presumption that all those unspeaking, nameless people we pass every day aspire to be "attractive" to us. And after several decades of somnambulance induced by television's pandering, the internet is waking people up to the truth.
In the dark candy silence of our mutual stranger-hood, we all like to think that everyone is having the same experience of the world that we have. But that's just surrounding chocolate! Within the nougaty center of our thoughts, we like to think that we individually are the only truly human souls, or at least the only regal ones. Or like Hollywood: All these other 'bots who scurry around us are just grips on the movie set, and they need to be nice to me, because it's my film. Of course they all want to get into my pants, or at least my good graces.
If you actually knew what was going on in the minds of the people standing next to you in line at the bank, you'd never leave the house. Hell, you'd never leave the bed. So you convince yourself that everyone means well... And maybe means even well-er than YOU do... That they're (righteously) more concerned about you than you are about them.
So then you shut down your orthopedic (or orthodontic) practice for the weekend and haul your five snot-blowing brats through airports and public transport and all the rest to Granny's for Christmas... Touching, perhaps inconveniencing, and maybe even darkening thousands of lives along the way. But you don't care, because you're so pissed off about losing thousands of dollars of income every day your practice is closed. After all, you're not just a dentist, your an "ortho DOC "... It says so right there in your name! You're a DOCTOR! You deserve a little extra space, man! And some random redhead on an airplane wants to screech about your ill-mannered children? Well, she can... She...
Well, you don't actually have much of an argument here, because kids aren't really what it's all about for you. So, Hell, let's just pretend that without your children, old people wouldn't be able to eat. Your kids are that special! It's your movie, right? None of the other six billion people on the planet would be able to keep the machine running if it weren't for your kids.
Because the problem is the redhead. She's not doing enough to be "attractive".
Paul was more "attractive", but John was everybody's favorite Beatle. He wore glasses, and that made him smart like a doctor, and he had all the best jokes, and he liked to do funny drawings. He wasn't afraid of sarcasm, and while he wasn't educated, he was consciously aware of the stupid ironies of teenage stardom. So when Dylan gave them all marijuana for the first time, he drew a cartoon of four smiling Beatle faces with the caption: "We all agree with you!"
But we're not your Beatles, we're just passengers on the airplane, and we got our own problems. Sometimes when we complain about your ill-mannered children, we do it with humor, but that's just because it's more entertaining for the others.
Spartee, don't be confused that people who disagree with you on a blog have merely failed to be "witty". We are not kidding.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 2:10 PM
"Some of you talk about kids the way klansmen talk about blacks and jews.
It is not attractive, or witty."
Dude, so I wasn't the only one flashing back to the "Inside the Klan" rally on TruTV last week? Grow up people, adults can offend and be just as obnoxious as kids, and don't have the excuse of being kids and knowing no better. In fact, all the horrendously irritating situations I've had to face in life were other adults. Kids are minor irritations.
If she-bitch had called the parents fuckers, I might have a little sympathy. But no.
I had an airline try to tell me my 3 year old had to sit a few rows down from me. I rolled my eyes at the stewardess, walked back to the row our other 2 seats were on, and asked someone to move. Like it would have killed the stewardess to do that? Southwest-who doesn't reserve seats. It's a pain, when you get there super early for seats together, and find out you're the second leg of a flight, and the plane's already nearly full.
momof4 at December 27, 2009 2:11 PM
"So then you shut down your orthopedic (or orthodontic) practice for the weekend and haul your five snot-blowing brats through airports and public transport and all the rest to Granny's for Christmas"
What fucking part of family of five is so hard for you all? parents are part of the family. 3 kids. It's easy enough-learn the lingo or don't comment on family size.
momof4 at December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
> Cussing at kids is so declasse
It's nowhere near as ghetto or downmarket or slutty as raising your own bad children.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
> or don't comment on family size
If you're doing a bad job, the actual numbers don't count for much.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 2:15 PM
"It's nowhere near as ghetto or downmarket or slutty as raising your own bad children."
Almost right up there with assuming you know how the world should be run, when you do your best to have no familial connections that last, eh, cridders? No one to visit for Christmas, and you're grumpy? No New Year's sex to look forward to, perhaps?
momof4 at December 27, 2009 2:15 PM
The holidays have actually been good to me, but I'll remember your concern next time.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 2:17 PM
kishke is right on. I suspect that either your travel agent is not very skilled or you are booking late enough such that there are not seats together. I have been asked a couple of times if I minded changing seats when I checked in and so long as it is not a degrade in seat (that is to a middle seat from an aisle or window seat) I have always agreed.
Or are you talking about the lay-out of seats?
Seating definatley needs to be wider. I can easily sit between the arm rests (not at alot of room) but my shoulders are well in the nieghbor seats.
The Former Banker at December 27, 2009 2:42 PM
"I might also add that those kids for whom you express such disdain will be paying for your retirement, so have a little fucking gratitude."
perhaps you missed the memo, but SS is broke. oh, and since anyone with half a brain has been able to see this coming for years, i've planned for, saved for, and am funding my own retirement. which means that your children aren't going to be paying for a damn thing for me in my old age. so no fucking gratitude for your 3 crumb crunchers. sorry.
still here at December 27, 2009 2:59 PM
"No one to visit for Christmas, and you're grumpy? No New Year's sex to look forward to, perhaps?"
I wish. I felt like crud the past two days. It was nice seeing various family members who I see roughly every 1-2 years, it was also rather boring sitting at a x-mas eve party as the designated driver with no one I really knew or could relate to. At least a fight almost broke out. Family and some friends are vastly overrated often. Last Christmas was a bit lonely being snowed in but involved lots of rest and relaxation.
Momof4, while the anti kid rhetoric can get strong here, do you ever stop to walk a mile in the high heels/shoes/boots of non parents? "Little fuckers" offends you? Cry me a fuckin river sweet heart. A few airlines won't let a single man sit next to a kid flying alone...
Sio at December 27, 2009 3:17 PM
"...they really do treat you like royalty if you're willing to pay for it."
Sure. You can get a seat like this.
Radwaste at December 27, 2009 4:56 PM
And look at this one.
Radwaste at December 27, 2009 5:29 PM
> do you ever stop to walk a mile in the
> high heels/shoes/boots of non parents?
Why should she? This thread has shown that anyone impatient with unruly children (in the captivity of an airliner fuselage, where one monster is as bad as five) is either [A.] not sufficiently impressed with postgraduate credentials or [B.] Not getting enough yule sex.
Airtight argument, no?
No?
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 5:33 PM
Somebody remind me, what's the term for attacking the person rather than refuting their argument? Ad hominem? Loco parentsis?
In any case, I think Ivana could've curbed her tongue a bit when dealing with the younger set.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at December 27, 2009 6:23 PM
Little fuckers doesn't offend me per say. If it were pointed at my kids, my marine-raised self would have trouble following the laws of this nation. At me, I don't care. Cuss away, I do too. And it's funny how it's A-Ok to call kids any number of pretty awful things here, but mention something unnice to a poster here, and Oh dear God! It's the ad-hominim police! Aaack! You want to dish it out, take it without complaint in return.
I'm not saying parents don't need to teach their kids proper behavior and manners-of course they do. I'm saying attacking the LITTLE kid for it is fucking stupid at best, and sociopathic at worst. Only bullies pick on those smaller than them, and bullies are fucking pathetic.
And some of you need reminding that NOT breeding is no more special than breeding-it takes no skill to pop a pill, any more than it apparently does to pop a crotch-fruit out of your vagina. You aren't owed anything for your decision, either.
momof4 at December 27, 2009 6:34 PM
> Only bullies pick on those smaller than them
Ivana Trump: Bully. She was looking for someone to torment, someone to punish with her anger and her rage. And it just so happened that it came to be this child at 30,000 feet.
(What would she have said to an adult in such a conduct? Does any adult reading this doubt that she'd have responded the same way? Isn't she to be admired for responding first to the child's shared humanity rather than its precious, imaginary-protected status?)
> You aren't owed anything
Yes we are. We are owed an adult measure of peace and quiet. And we are going to insist. And if you can't hang with that, keep your kids at home.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2009 7:49 PM
I can't decide if I wanna marry Amy or Crid? Decisions, decisions!
Rosemary at December 27, 2009 8:27 PM
Oh, and I think Ivana was just wearing her crabby-pants that day because the world knows she has lost her boy-toy. Maybe he decided he needs to bear some "crotch-fruit" of his own and well, she can't deliver.
In any event, I would have gently pulled one of those children aside, enticed them with some candy and engaged them, excessively so. You'd be surprised how fast the parents would reel in the kids when the "weird stranger" is taking a bit TOO much of an interest in them.
Either that, or get out my sharpie and ask them if they want a very special hand tattoo? After they got super-special permission from their likely liquored up parents, (assure them you are an artist), then proceed to write STFU all over their hands and arms in permanent Sharpie pen. Send them back to Mom and Dad to show off their special tattoos!
Rosemary at December 27, 2009 8:35 PM
Spartee: Some of you talk about kids the way klansmen talk about blacks and jews.
I have no objections to kids. I have objections to unruly kids.
Patrick at December 28, 2009 12:44 AM
Crid writes: Everybody, let's do the Cabbage Patch
Thanks, Crid. I've always wondered what the dance move was called.
Patrick at December 28, 2009 12:55 AM
"maybe even darkening thousands of lives along the way. "
Hahaha, love it. How true it is....
crella at December 28, 2009 1:07 AM
Personally, I'm much more offended by the overweight, smelly slobs who feel that my seat belongs to them, by the twits who bring a steamer trunk as carry-on luggage and expect me to give up my space in the overhead bin, by the yapping boor on his/her cell phone, by the garrulous bore who wants to know my life story, and so on.
Ditto
I don't mind kids at all unless they're rude and obnoxious which does happen. They should have a semblance of control. HOWEVER, the above statement expresses my major peeve toward plane travel.
saiorse at December 28, 2009 7:29 AM
Ditto to the comment quoted at the bottom of my post.
I have no problem with kids, as long as they're not rude or obnoxious, and their parents are aware if they ARE annoying people. The oblivious parents are the ones I blame. I wouldn't want a 5 hour kidney punch when I'm confined to a seat, and served by an irritable attendant.
"Personally, I'm much more offended by the overweight, smelly slobs who feel that my seat belongs to them, by the twits who bring a steamer trunk as carry-on luggage and expect me to give up my space in the overhead bin, by the yapping boor on his/her cell phone, by the garrulous bore who wants to know my life story, and so on."
saiorse at December 28, 2009 7:40 AM
"I might also add that those kids for whom you express such disdain will be paying for your retirement, so have a little fucking gratitude."
Seeing that I'm paying for their education with my property taxes, how about a little gratitude for me?
JoJo at December 28, 2009 11:25 AM
Seeing that I'm paying for their education with my property taxes, how about a little gratitude for me?
Yes. And when I'm in a nursing home paying today's children to wipe my ass, I will also be providing them with a salary on which to buy their own homes and raise their own children. So a little quiet for the future old lady, please.
MonicaP at December 28, 2009 11:54 AM
"Yes we are. We are owed an adult measure of peace and quiet. And we are going to insist. And if you can't hang with that, keep your kids at home."
Bullshit. And if you really think so, head out to any public place in the planet, and find a nice big strapping man instead of a little preschooler, and call him a little fucker for disturbing your adult measure of peace and quiet. Or, like with the gay activists who didn't protest Prop 9 in Watts, are you all only bravely obscene to noisemakers when they're kids?
"Seeing that I'm paying for their education with my property taxes, how about a little gratitude for me?"
And THEIR parents and grandparents paid for yours. Thanked them lately?
momof4 at December 28, 2009 1:19 PM
Their parents didn't pay for my education. They're my age. I'm paying for their kids' education.
And, as a matter of fact, I have thanked their grandparents. I paid for their retirement.
Conan the Grammarian at December 28, 2009 2:29 PM
> call him a little fucker for disturbing
> your adult measure of peace
You're not doing this "role reversal" thing correctly. Big Strapping whatevers are usually old enough not to be pests. I don't pester them either. It's a courtesy thing.
You think other people WANT to be bothered by the children of irresponsible parents. We don't.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 28, 2009 5:08 PM
I have no problem with a 1-4 year old having ear problems on takeoff. It is expected. Having kids running in the aisle is a hazard.
She should have insisted that the kids be charged with disturbing the peace, verbal assault, and violation of FAA regulations about movement in the cabin.
Jim P. at December 28, 2009 5:52 PM
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