I'd say that many women misunderstand men's use of porn. They feel threatened by it and see it as a case of "if he's horny, it should be only for me," like the man is directing attention to the porn that would otherwise be spent on her. Like if he's watching a dirty movie, then he won't be interested in her. Or that it's bad if he gets worked up over watching the dirty movie and then has sex with her.

I think it's a lot about women not getting men's sexuality and that it's different from women's. I have heard more than one female acquaintance say something like "Why does he want to look at porn when he has me?" I've also heard secure women, many of them on this site, say "I (mostly) don't care what gets him in the mood as long as he's bringing that mood to me." That seems to be a much healthier attitude than trying to impose supposed rules of what men should be attracted to.

There is a great difference between liking porn and liking it to the extent that you withdraw from real-world sex. The latter does not necessarily follow the former, and I think many women don't get that.

Some are threatened, some merely find it distasteful and trashy. Some reasons to be threatened I imagine would be that you feel you can't compare to the girls on the screen (not that they tend to be that attractive, unless it's really high-quality stuff). That he might want you to do the things on the screen-many of which are unappealing to women because of course porn is built around men's visual tastes, not what feels pleasant to women. As one porn star said in an interview "I am not going home and doing the reverse cowgirl. It's straight missionary when I'm off the clock" yet the rest of us feel we have to , to be "sexy" and wild for our man.

I care about where he gets his appetite. He's a man, I'm sure he watches, but we have agreed that porn does not belong in a house with kids, so he's very discreet. I imagine it's during his alone computer time after I've gone to bed. But if he were to wake me with a raging boner in the middle of the night? I think I'd probably be peeved that he expected me to turn on and take care of what someone else gave him. The whole "I'm not good enough to give it to you, just to finish it off" way of thinking. Incorrect, perhaps, but human.

I have heard more than one female acquaintance say something like "Why does he want to look at porn when he has me?"

To which I always tell them "becuase you wont say yes every time he wants to do it"

Because for many women it is their form of control on their man.

"To which I always tell them "becuase you wont say yes every time he wants to do it"

That seems insightful, but it's not. Even if she'll say yes, we might rather just take care of it ourselves.

My ex-wife used to get upset if she had discovered that I'd pulled one off in the shower. She was thinking that same sort of thing, "I'm here, why is he interested in anything else?"

Here's why we do it without our loved one: Sometimes you just want to practice "good prostate health" without the need to perform. We're very goal oriented and can get the job done pretty efficiently on our own and without all the fanfare. Porn can be a good tool for making a deposit in the old "spank bank". As has been said, we're very visual and like to have a lot of images to draw on while we're shucking oysters. Hence the term, "spank bank".

Okay, I think I've done a pretty good job of assailing you all with vulgar guy terms. I'll be here Tuesdays and Thursdays...if you drink, don't drive. Good night ... you've been great.

There is a great difference between liking porn and liking it to the extent that you withdraw from real-world sex. The latter does not necessarily follow the former, and I think many women don't get that.

Very true. Although I like checking out Playboy once in a while just to see what BF's looking at and maybe read some of the articles.

But if he were to wake me with a raging boner in the middle of the night? I think I'd probably be peeved that he expected me to turn on and take care of what someone else gave him. The whole "I'm not good enough to give it to you, just to finish it off" way of thinking. Incorrect, perhaps, but human.

True also. Because really, when I'm sleeping and BF wakes me up wanting to get some, maybe I will want to and maybe I won't - it depends on how long I've been asleep and how he wakes me. And if gets pissy with me because I don't want to, it's my fault somehow. And I hate that.

To which I always tell them "becuase you wont say yes every time he wants to do it"

How come it's always on us? When the timing is off, it's off, and it's not really anyones' fault, that's just the way it is. It's just not possible to always say "yes" just because he wants it when he wants it. How about a little consideration here? That seems to be a big issue, that he wants what he wants when she doesn't. There's got to be compromise. Implusiveness has its place, but not everyone can be in the mood at the drop of a hat, luj. If we could, there'd be a lot less misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

Forgive me, in advance, for wasting your time with a joke. However, I think you'll find it's apropos to the discussion.

It seems ... a man visited his doctor with a problem.

"I have this problem, Doc.

My wife is a nymphomaniac. Every morning when I wake, she needs me to have sex with her for at least an half an hour. Then when I get to work, I have a secretary that likes nothing more in the world than to suck my dick. So she sucks my dick and then I settle into my office for the day's affairs. Lunchtime arrives and my wife insists that I come home for a nooner. First, though, my secretary demands that she sucks my dick on my way out.

After my secretary sucks my dick, I go home for lunch and barely have enough time for a sandwich after giving my wife a proper seeing to.

When I arrive back at the office, the secretary is at it again and gives me a good dick sucking.

On my way home, I get the business from the secretary once more and then have sex with my insatiable wife for many hours until, finally, exhausted, I succumb to sleep.

The next day, the whole thing starts again."

"I'm sorry sir," The doctor says, "I don't really see the problem."

"Well, you see Doc, every time I masturbate I get these terrible dizzy spells."

Men like porn because there is no emotional connection required to get off; with a woman there is always an emotional connection and sometimes the guy just doesn't want to mess with emotion.

Women have brains that are hard-wired to associate an emotional connection with sex, and can't imagine having sex without it.

So on the one hand we have Flynne(a woman) asking why they always have to be willing to put out - hardly a notion only she holds.

So on one hand you have women demanding a guy never ever do anything sexual except with his partner, and on the other side you have women who get exasperated with their partners libido and what to know why they are always expected to care for every erection.

What the hell is wrong with you people? Is it so hard(pun intended) to find a middle ground between the two positions?

Becase I'b be willing to bet a majority of the women in camp number two used to be in camp number one until a guy took her up on her offer

"How come it's always on us?"

Haven't you been reading this column? Amy has already explained this.

Flynne,

Because if women want to hold onto a sexual monopoly in a relationship, the franchise better damn well be open 24/7 or the black market is going to take over, and it might not stop at porn.

But that is just an extension of another little foible of women: wanting to control a guy's friends.

If a woman holds the standard that she is supposed the 'end all' of her man's needs (Why does he need porn/friends/etc when he has me?) it behooves her to actually step up to the plate and BE all for the guy, not just when she feels like. Not just to stuff she wants to do.

It isn't the guy setting that kind of stupid standard. And it seems too common.

"Men like porn because there is no emotional connection required to get off; with a woman there is always an emotional connection and sometimes the guy just doesn't want to mess with emotion."

Bingo!

In another context, why is it that someone will pet their cat, when their partner is sitting right next to them? Because there is no complexity involved: will she, won't she, will she expect more, is this ok, etc, etc. Pet a cat, get a purr, sometimes one just wants to keep it simple...

I think there's varying degrees of porn use, so you can't just lump all porn together and say women don't like porn.

My ex liked rape fetish type porn, which made him crazy to experience that kind of domination using my body. I didn't care for that, and personally preferred for him just to jerk off in the other room if that's the mood he was in, but that often wasn't good enough.

I have no problem with regular porn as a warm up, though, as momof4 said, I'd like to be there a bit earlier than the finish. Nobody, male or female, wants to feel that their lover is really somewhere else in their head (even when that's true).

My fiance was the first guy who ever "saved it up" for me, meaning he wouldn't masturbate. He'd rather have real sex, than waste it on porn.

I know that's not typical male behavior, but it sure is nice. I'm sure he occasionally jerks off when I'm not around, but I never have the sense that porn is more important to him than sex with me.

He has the latest "Playboy" in the bathroom, and exactly two (I counted) porn videos in his cabinet.

It's not that I would hate him or be angry if he had a whole collection and jerked off more regularly, but I'm especially happy that he doesn't.

So, I think it's often not so much that women are "threatened" by porn, as we're disappointed that it's so important and seemingly necessary to most guys.

Kinda like the way you feel about our clothes or makeup or inability to appreciate sports. It's not that you wouldn't be with us for that...but, deep down, you wish we were the kinda girl who swigged beer, knew all the sports teams, and yet still loved to pole dance.

Idealistic? Yes, but you know you sometimes wish we were that way, and, by the same token, we wish you didn't like porn so much.

Look, guys, 8 times out of 10, when BF comes to bed with a raging hard on and wakes me up, I'm game. But those 2 times that I'm not, why is that a big deal?

He just came home with an 8 point buck (nice! almost 200 lbs!). I helped him butcher it and put it in the freezer (except the steaks we're having for dinner tonight). I always help him when he brings one home. I always watch football with him because I like football too. I don't drink beer with him, because I like wine. I go to the range with him because I like to shoot too. I always try to be there for him as often as possible, and I come through most of the time. It's those couple of times when I'm not ready or in the mood that I get chastised for. I don't ask him to come shopping with me (well, yeah okay I do once in a while, but he hates shopping and I don't make him go), I don't ask him to watch figure skating or cooking shows with me, and I don't get pissy with him for not doing those things. So why can't I get a pass those times when I'm not in the mood? Most of the time, I am.

> I'll be here Tuesdays and Thursdays...if you
> drink, don't drive. Good night ... you've
> been great.

You killed out there tonight, dude!... You killed 'em. Seriously: Power set. You in the Catskills for Turkey Day? Lotta busy rooms up there for the Christian holidays.
________________________

Flynne: When you say this:

> How come it's always on us?

and you say this:

> So why can't I get a pass those times
> when I'm not in the mood?

What exactly do you mean? People negotiate stuff, and sometimes there are disagreements about transactions, emotional and otherwise. What exactly is your complaint?

No one wants to be a sperm cup and have their zzz's interrupted and that really isn't the issue here. That's a matter of basic politeness. Of course, the fix for that is when the guy has been asleep for 45 minutes to sexually assault him. Turn about is fair play.

What most of the men (and some of the women) are discussing is opposition to porn as an insult, competition, or social pressure to do things that you don't want to do.

As lovelysoul said: If your guy is into X, and you don't want to scratch that itch, then it behooves you to either walk or accept that there are some itches you don't want to scratch and let him scratch them himself. Most guys probably don't want to share their latex fetish with you anyway, so give the guy some space.

Her complaint is that the FEW times she says no the response is to chastise her or make her feel guilty.

I know that all too well. I could've had sex twice a day and hung (quite literally) from the ceiling for the ex, but the few times I said no, he sulked like a baby. "I guess you don't really love me" kind of sulking.

It's really the difference between maturity and immaturity. A guy who has a loving partner who has sex with him MOST of the time knows better than to make her feel guilty on the few occasions that she just isn't in the mood or is dead tired. A little understanding and self-restraint in those moments goes a long way, guys. She'll remember that and repay you many times over, but if you make an issue, or push for sex when she doesn't feel like it, this breeds resentment.

To be clear, I'm not talking about women who rarely have sex. Too many women make the mistake of using sex as control or shutting the sex life entirely down. It's stupid and a relationship killer, as any self-respecting man will eventually leave or seek sex elsewhere.

But if a guy is lucky enough to have a lady like Flynne, who'll butcher a buck and is usually up for a f--k, he's a fool to make her feel bad.

Before my husband and I married, we sat down and discussed all things sex to make sure we were on the same page. We agreed or negotiated frequency, porn, and certain fetishes. When I see something I think he'd like, I send it his way. My problem is that he'll regularly oogle certain things that fall outside our original realm and when I ask him if he'd like to try it, he insists that it's "interesting, but doesn't turn [him] on." Something tells me there's more there, but I don't know what it is. But I do feel threatened when it appears he's being dishonest (even if it's to himself), as in, "who are you and where is the man I married?"

I can see dishonesty and betrayal being a part of women's distaste for porn. A woman who enters a relationship thinking she will be enough for her man-however foolish the thought is- will probably be upset when she's hit with the reality her man likes to look around. Personally, I'm cool with most things, but I don't want to be left in the dark with a stranger for a husband.

It is because most women take everything personally and feel threatened by their provider/possession finding other women attractive, even if they are only two dimensional. All women, even the secure ones look at every woman they see and rate themselves in terms of how attractive they feel they are compared to the other woman. When she sees her man sexually attracted to even two dimensional women, an insecure woman has two reactions. The first reaction is "OMG, she is more attractive them I am, I can't possibly compete." The second reaction, is "OMG, she isn't even hot" which is actually even MORE threatening because it calls into question everything she believes about what men in general, and her man in particular are sexually attracted to. Secure women still compare themselves to other women in their age group, but most of them as they mature, realize that there is a lot more to sexual attraction than mere looks, and most men over the age of 40 will find a woman who keeps themselves up, makes an effort to be attractive, and treats them well, is more than hot enough to have sex with enthusiastically. I was considered quite attractive when I was in my 20's and had no problem attracting good looking, intelligent men. Now, at 54 I have even less of a problem within a 15 year window either side of my age because I have aged better than most of my peers, and treat men well.

Yes, Crid, exactly what lovelysoul said.

But if a guy is lucky enough to have a lady like Flynne, who'll butcher a buck and is usually up for a f--k, he's a fool to make her feel bad.

YES!! LOL, lovelysoul, you rock! Thanks so much for that!

And he usually doesn't make me feel really bad, and he gets over it soon enough, but I do feel bad when he takes it personally, because it's nothing personal, I'm just tired. (Isabel1130, a lot of guys take things personally too, you know.)

I think there are two reasons for women disliking porn. The first has been done to death already - why does he want that when he has me? So I won't go there. But I've got a quite a few friends who are morally against it and can't understand how their guy can suspend reality to enjoy it. They sort of have a point - the industry does chew people up and spit them out, and especially if you're just searching round on the internet you're bound to come across things where the participants are drugged up, coerced, etc. Not all porn involves wonderful, secure, empowered people using their sexuality for money. When it's really obvious, I'm disgusted and look away - but I'm pretty sure that some of the stuff I like was probably made in a way that would cause me to commit murder if it happened to a friend of mine.

Oh, and Flynne - remind me not to piss you off. You sound like someone who can take of herself :)

Magical principle: People want what they want.

Important codicil: They almost always want it when they want it.

Prager talks about this: 1, 2. When the woman wants the man to clean out the gutters or go see the six-year-old's Halloween pageant, she doesn't want him saying "Maybe later, I'm not so into it right now." People do stuff whether or not they're in the mood all the time.

> or make her feel guilty.

For a man to have to deal with pouting about emotional responses (a topic of feminine fascination which often threatens to roar on without surcease) without even getting laid for the trouble is double taxation.

"People do stuff whether or not they're in the mood all the time."

Yeah, and that's basically the motto of women like me and Flynne. We rarely say no, even when we're not particularly in the mood, which is why when we do say no, it's usually because we're sick, dead tired, or just had a baby.

We'll give guys a pass on cleaning gutters for any of those reasons too.

'Why are so many women threatened by men's use of porn?"

Because, because it's just a gateway drug! Oh, it might just start with Playboy centerfolds, but next it's Japanese tentacle sex, wait and see!

Geez, be happy if looking at women he'll never have doing things he'll never get to do is enough for him. If he wants you to become that woman and do those things, then you might have a whole 'nuther problem.

"we're disappointed that it's so important and seemingly necessary to most guys.

Kinda like the way you feel about our clothes or makeup or inability to appreciate sports." lovelysoul.

how nice of you to distill my sexuality down into a nuget of feminine wisdom. would you condescend so that we could service you?

It is precisely NOT LIKE CLOTHES OR MAKEUP, and it's entirely stupid of you to throw that old stereotype about sports.

You are disappointed because you somehow expect things to be different when reality says they're not.

The only reason to get wrapped around the axle about this topic is for control. If the timing is off, then what is the problem with him taking care of it himself? But you can't control that, can you? Are you worried that he will decide it's easier not to deal with all the stuff you want, all the conditions you make? Maybe you should ask yourself if all of that is actually worth anything to him.

All in all, I think this is an offshoot of barrier contraception. Because semen is an astonishing mixture of chemistry to make both people feel good, but if you don't get any, I can imagine why women would think of this as a chore.

What's the answer here? Why do we even bother with each other if it's so ficken' distasteful and disappointing. It's a lot more fun with a person, until there are subtle conditions one every move, and so forth, like somehow she is doing it for your sake.

i think pr0n isn't what you should worry about... I think robots ARE. Because they will fulfill the part of male design that creates millions of sperm every day, and a need to get rid of them. Without bickering about every little thing. Men seek acceptance from women. It's really simple that way. If you won't do it, and you won't let him do it himself, then he will find someone else.

Hey, it's not just women - some men are threatened by women liking porn. My last boyfriend thought it was fine for him to look at porn, including girl-on-girl, and I had no problem with it. That's how men are. But a lot of women are visually oriented, too, and the fact that I like gay male porn freaked him out. Some women get off on seeing guys together - and men get uncomfortable when they realize their girlfriends love seeing a man take it up the ass.

I have an ex-gf that some nights sleeping together she would roll around like a nut. I eventually figured out that it was 3-5 days before her period. And she was looking to get some. I would do her at 4:00 AM and then go back to sleep.

Granted I enjoyed it -- but I was tired the next day. She enjoyed it and didn't really remember that it had occurred. But the moans said she enjoyed it.

That proved to me that women can be as horny as a guy.

At the same time -- I wouldn't wake her up to tke care of me as a common thing.

As I stated in another thread, both my husb and I watch porn - usually not together. My husbands sex drive is lower than mine and the lure of porn is actually more tempting for me rather than him.

In answer to the original question, I don't think I am threatened by his use of porn and he by mine. I see watching porn as a fantasy and an exploration of self, while sex together is a reality and focus on eachother.

"If the timing is off, then what is the problem with him taking care of it himself? But you can't control that, can you? Are you worried that he will decide it's easier not to deal with all the stuff you want, all the conditions you make? Maybe you should ask yourself if all of that is actually worth anything to him"

Gee, Swiss, I think you really mischaracterized what I said and did a lot of projecting.

No, I don't have a problem with it. I've always been accepting (perhaps way too accepting) of porn.

And like other women are saying here, I enjoyed watching porn myself. I'm a lot more visual than what women supposedly are. It was actually kind of funny because my ex always needed a plot, and I was like, "can't we fast forward to the action?" I HATED when they tried to act! Just get to the sex and nudity already.

Like Sandy said, guys do have a problem with that too, so many women don't indulge in porn at all out of fear that they'll seem too horny and their guy will suspect they want to cheat on him.

I had a gf who susbcribed to the Playboy channel once, as a surprise for her husband. She bought sexy lingerie and waited for him in the bedroom, thinking he'd be thrilled and excited. He called her a whore, and walked out! Told her "decent" women - much less mothers - don't watch that stuff.

So, a lot of guys have the view that ONLY guys can watch porn. Consider that the next time you think how unfair women are on this issue. I suspect we are the ones who rarely get to explore our full sexuality - in bed and otherwise.

"But if he were to wake me with a raging boner in the middle of the night? I think I'd probably be peeved that he expected me to turn on and take care of what someone else gave him."

Hmmm. Someone else gave him? Sorry but men are a little more complicated than that. You are living in the delusion of men as a kind of combination robot-Neanderthal.

" Ooog see woman in short leopard skin. Ooog need sex now!"

There is an odor around this statement of "Sex is a misery to be endured. Close your eyes and think of England."

And just because one porn actress says she does nothing but missionary position when she is "off the clock" tells no one anything about sex, or women in general. At least no one who thinks.

I had posted in the previous thread indicating that I didn't think women wanted to see to guys getting it on. I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. But I think Sandy is in the minority.

I wouldn't wake a woman up to have sex with her. If I wanted some, I would see if she was in the mood/willing to be gotten in the mood before she went to sleep. Seems like common courtesy to me. And I think women need to either put out or not complain if a man takes care of himself. One or the other - you can't have it both ways.

Men aren't the only ones who complain about their partner's not being in the mood when they are.

"Look, guys, 8 times out of 10, when BF comes to bed with a raging hard on and wakes me up, I'm game. But those 2 times that I'm not, why is that a big deal? "

Next time you reach out to your guy for a hug and a talk, if he shrugs at you and says he wants to attend to other things, let me know how that makes you feel about him and your relationship.

If he does that even 20% of the time you seek that connection, you will notice it, and likely resent it.

A similar thing is going on with guys and sex.

"I had posted in the previous thread indicating that I didn't think women wanted to see to guys getting it on. I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. But I think Sandy is in the minority."

You'd be surprised.

> So, a lot of guys have the view that
> ONLY guys can watch porn.

The pat-ness, the simplicity, the emotional cowardice, the blinding naïveté of your presumptive reasoning is an endless source of amusement and irritation.

Amuse-ritation: The snicker that happens while you are SLAPPING an idiot upside dey ha-yed.

Sulllllllll-LAAPPPPP!

Are you kidding, Crid? You're really going to say that's untrue? Why, just to spite me?

Some men are threatened by their women watching porn, especially without them. Male porn stars are almost always buff and well-hung. I suspect not many guys would really be happy about their woman sneaking off to the other room to masturbate at 2 am either.

The problem with porn is when it interferes with a couple's sex life. Relationship problems are almost never solved by turning outward. If a guy is unhappy with his partner and/or their sex life, porn is just going to make things worse.

We have a saying - those of us who go to Hedonism - that it's not the place to go if your relationship isn't healthy. When you're feeling close to each other, it can be a magical, intimate, sexy place, but it's the total opposite when things aren't going well, when the connection between the couple is broken or there are resentments.

I think the same is true with porn. When things are good between a couple, porn isn't that big a deal to most women because they feel secure. A lot of the "threat" women feel about porn is more about other unfulfillments in the relationship, and, deep down, may even be jealousy over the guy getting his sexual needs met when hers aren't.

No. Not because it's untrue, but because it's so shortsighted, because it's so proudly naive, because so joyously unaware of the erotic capacities of other people, male and female. You just can't believe anyone's ever felt something that you haven't felt.

Sixth decade of life, and of all the men I've ever met, not one has said women (specifically) can't watch porn.

MANY OF THEM, however, especially the sad-sacks, have wished they'd made marriages to women with greater sexual sophistication generally, to women who didn't think their own erotic bearing –no matter how anemic and self-centered– was somehow supposed to be the sole source of light to another sentient being. There's nothing less boner-nourishing on the surface of our ugly planet than a woman who thinks that answering her most cowardly character is what this planet was built for. GRANITE ROCKS inspire firmer wood.

Notwithstanding the foregoing text of this blog comment, if there is a way to "spite" you, I'll do it. Just let me know.

"Sixth decade of life, and of all the men I've ever met, not one has said women (specifically) can't watch porn."

Well, they're not going to SAY that, Crid. Even the most neanderthal-type men are reluctant to appear that way (unless they're ignorant hicks, which I doubt you hang out with). But you have several women in this thread sharing personal stories about men being threatened by their porn viewing, so it's not just about my "feeling" it.

Actually, you're the one who always fails to believe in anything you haven't personally experienced. Doesn't matter what people are sharing, if it conflicts with your world view, it didn't happen.

"There's nothing less boner-nourishing on the surface of our ugly planet than a woman who thinks that answering her most cowardly character is what this planet was built for."

Again, I could address your insults if I knew what the f--k they meant.

However, putting me in the same category as Jeffrey Dahmer really seems off the wall. As much as you loathe me, you know I'm not actually a psychopath. We occasionally even agree, not that you'd ever admit it.

"I had posted in the previous thread indicating that I didn't think women wanted to see to guys getting it on. I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. But I think Sandy is in the minority."

It's true that a lot of women prefer words to images - thus, an overwhelming amount of m/m slash fanfiction is written by het women (Google it if you're unfamiliar with the term). But there's still a big interest in guy-on-guy action in one form or another.

Skeptics can also check out the blog described as "the girl's guide to gay porn":

http://gpcrush.com/guiltilypleasured/

I may not be in the majority, but I'm not alone. :)

> Well, they're not going to SAY that

Riiiiiiiiiiiight, the fact that there's no evidence for your beliefs isn't a factor. Like I was saying, you've got everyone else's immortal spirit perfectly measured, just by being you. These men aren't threatened by anything except narcissism: If he doesn't by nature take comfort only in ways which flatter you, something's wrong. "Alittlesense" gets this:

> Someone else gave him?

I know plenty of marriages where women are a bit more courageous and sophisticated about how masculinity works. Without having acquired a seven-page survey from each of these unions, they sure seem happier... And it seems to ripple throughout their lives. These aren't the women who get upset when men spend a couple hours a night fixing up old cars in the garage or mastering woodcraft. Letting men care about what they care about seems to work well for everyone. (And they have nicer cars and better furnishings.)

> you know I'm not actually a psychopath

There's a fundamental break in your appreciation of other human beings. Too many rambling comments ennobling weakness can't be explained any other way.

> We occasionally even agree

Broken clocks are right twice a day, but never to be trusted.

This passage from the Hitch interview Amy linked tonight hits the spot squarely, from a completely different topic:

Hitchens mentions a "narrow but quite deep difference" between himself and Dawkins. Unlike the evangelical biologist, he has no wish to convert everyone in the world to his point of view, even if it were possible. In other words, he savours the counterargument. Like John Stuart Mill, he is aware of the empty end of achieved objectives. The true satisfaction lies in the means. Although Hitchens is often seen as a provocateur or a contrarian, and both are indeed aspects of his character, at heart he's incurably in love with the dialectic.

The best loves in my life were always plainly aware that my feelings about sex weren't like their feelings about sex. They'd say so out loud, whether with amusement or just a kiss of intimidation... But it was cool.

I have often asked that question myself, and wonder what's the difference between men watching porn and women reading about heaving bosoms and torn corsets in romance novels (She says romance, he says porn)

Unless it's a porn addiction, what's the deal? And if it is an addiction, the problem is the addiction, not the porn.

"There's a fundamental break in your appreciation of other human beings. Too many rambling comments ennobling weakness can't be explained any other way."

I'm not enobling weaknesses. There's a fundamental difference between enobling and acknowledging.

It seems to me that your appreciation or concern for people is flawed. You don't really even come here to converse. You read through, grab snippets of comments and either bash or applaud them. You're not having a conversation with anyone but yourself.

There's no give and take with you, whereas I'm often responding to the deep, troubling things people share here. I care enough not to leave them hanging with, "maybe my partner is bisexual?" or "do you think I should leave?"

You may hate the advice I give, and the personal ways I try to assure them they're not alone, but you sure offer nothing better.

I sometimes forget whether psychopath is one word or two, like "psycho-path". And then I have to look it up.

I think that the first thing one can glean from these comments is that generalizations have a limit.

Porn has a habit of revealing uncomfortable truths about our SO that we'd rather stay ignorant on. Like that flaming fucking idiot who tossed his wife over his virgin whore complex. The porn does not make anyone anything they are not.

LS: Crid has always been a shining ray of happiness and hope here. If Crid is being Crid why are you surprised? Also I think he gets a charge out of taking a giant prune fortified shit on ones general assumptions.

Because if women want to hold onto a sexual monopoly in a relationship, the franchise better damn well be open 24/7 or the black market is going to take over, and it might not stop at porn.

My husband isn't a sex machine, and he doesn't expect me to be one. I can count on one hand the number of times I've said no, and it's not a big deal. If he was terribly upset by it, I saw no evidence of that. Not all of this stuff is make or break.

Next time you reach out to your guy for a hug and a talk, if he shrugs at you and says he wants to attend to other things, let me know how that makes you feel about him and your relationship.

True story: I once served my husband homemade ice cream completely naked while he was playing WoW. He ate the ice cream, told me it was good, then went back to his instance. It didn't even occur to me to be annoyed with it. He was just preoccupied. It happens.

As for porn: The only reason I was threatened by it with my ex was because I didn't get laid for two years while he was jacking off to lesbian co-eds.

> Not all of this stuff is make or break.

See, that's what I was getting at with Flynne, who's doesn't seem to be all that sturmy-drangy in her personal relationships... She's not a drama queen. Happy couples are often mildy disappointed with each other, or sharply disappointed for a few seconds in a row. I don't see how this turns into "always on us".

Oh come on. If my girlfriend or wife had a disk drive filled to the brim with pictures of naked men, which she insisted on masturbating to every single day that she breathed, I'd be a little upset too.

You might be upset, but I'd watch

Lou!

The intersting thing about humans, and I might be wrong on this point, but it seems to me that sex has a psychological component in humans that you dont see in other animals.

I love my own physical reaction, but the way the muscles in a womans back twist and shudder, the look of exquisite agony/elation at the moment it happens adds a whole extra dimention to the experiance.

So yea, watching is just enough fun as doing it myself - at least for me

It is a much more substantial amount of time to 'fake' a hug then it is to engage in sex. There is the waking up, the heavy breathing, the faking the orgasm, the wet spot.

So a hug refusal is just plain mean. Turning down sex is a bit more understandable.

If you don't get fed at home you eat out.

No one wants to be a sperm cup and have their zzz's interrupted

Careful with those absolutes.

I don't have a great sex drive now that I am in my early 50's, but I use porn surreptiously to "get in the mood" because he is in the mood quite a lot. I can view porn on my smart phone for 5 minutes and get hot. It keeps us both happy. When it comes to watching porn, I think women are just as stimulated by it as men. Works for me every time.