Is Being A Moron A Requirement For A Government Job?
Thom Patterson writes on CNN.com about intelligence issues in the TSA rail and subway spot-checks (as in, the only meaningful thing anybody's uncovered is a serious lack of intelligence):
A high-profile example of VIPR's growing pains, transit officials say, is a VIPR-assisted passenger screening a year ago at Amtrak's station in Savannah, Georgia.Instead of screening passengers as they boarded trains -- which is standard security procedure -- officers were screening passengers as they were getting off trains.
Security experts know that makes no sense, because potential terrorists probably would be interested in bringing explosives onto trains, not taking them off.
Can anybody help them spell...DUHHHHH!?
Annnd, this.
Depressing.
Somebody probably got distracted patting down a "hot" pre-teen.
Radwaste at January 31, 2012 2:32 AM
Over the decade or so since the TSA's founding, is anyone convinced that these guys have:
- Doctrine,
- Proper training,
- A clear mission?
Me either.
Old RPM Daddy at January 31, 2012 4:35 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/01/31/is_being_a_moro.html#comment-2946778">comment from Old RPM DaddyIt's a way to keep many people employed -- and on the taxpayer dime (don't have to grow the economy if you just grow government) -- and to get us docile about our civil liberties being yanked for us. It's all good!
Amy Alkon at January 31, 2012 5:04 AM
What happens if you don't submit to the search? They put you back on the train?
V-Man at January 31, 2012 6:01 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/01/31/is_being_a_moro.html#comment-2946827">comment from V-ManWhat happens if you don't submit to the search? They put you back on the train?
If only.
Amy Alkon at January 31, 2012 6:04 AM
Remember how everyone said that trains would be better because there wouldn't be any security issues?
YEAH.
densityduck at January 31, 2012 6:07 AM
"Is Being A Moron A Requirement For A Government Job?" I assume that was rhetorical?
buzz at January 31, 2012 6:11 AM
Is Being A Moron A Requirement For A Government Job?
Two words: Joe Biden
Old Guy at January 31, 2012 6:57 AM
Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that this and similar actions aren't intended to be actual 'security' screenings: they're to get people used to the idea that TSA can stop you and question you and search you, anytime, anywhere.
Firehand at January 31, 2012 7:04 AM
"Is Being A Moron A Requirement For A Government Job?"
No, but it probably is a quota based hiring preference same as race and gender.
bigfingo at January 31, 2012 7:30 AM
What is the real point here?
Is it just a jobs program?
Imagine... all the hassle of a TSA search, only the passenger doesn't even get the (extremely limited) extra security. They also have no idea what their schedule will be like, as they can't just show up early and have the security delay taken care of... they are completely at the mercy of the TSA.
In every way, this screws the passenger.
Dustin at January 31, 2012 7:36 AM
Maybe they were looking for shoplifters. (That's the standard reason for searching customers on the way out.) Did the train in question report anything missing?
"No, Mr. TSA Person, that's not a caboose in my pocket, and I'm not happy to see you."
Daniel in Brookline at January 31, 2012 7:50 AM
This is a funny story about a past director of the TSA. Clearly, it is a political position. If our betters thought the TSA was valuable, they would head it with a technical person.
The Brains of the TSA 12/21/08 - Econlog.Econlib.org by David Henderson
== ==
When Charley and I tell a story of poor thinking, we almost never name the person, but here I'll make an exception. This high-level manager was Kip Hawley, head of the Transportation Security Administration. [To see why, search for "I volunteered" at the link]
== ==
Andrew_M_Garland at January 31, 2012 8:27 AM
And these idiots are being unionized so we can't even harbor hope of ever straightening them out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/business/24labor.html
Knucklehead at January 31, 2012 8:55 AM
It's actually not stupid at all, but very shrewd. Interstate travel exposes you to RICO charges for any large amounts of cash you just happen to be carrying. If the trained dog alerts to the $10,000 in cash in your luggage, the police take it, and under RICO, you are required to prove it is income from a legitimate source. If you can't, sorry Charlie, that money goes straight into the department's coffers.
It's not a giant coincidence that the jurisdiction searching the out-of-state residents for cash as they step off the train just happens to be hemorrhaging money and facing bankruptcy.
But it's the price we have to pay to stop terrorism...
Some Guy at January 31, 2012 11:17 AM
Has anyone noticed the similarities of what we're being put through with the unlawful searches in order to move about our own country, you know the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, and the similarities to what Jews were put through in Nazi occupied Germany? I'm not saying it's that bad...yet. But how long before it is?
And please don't jump on me for drawing the correlation between the USA and Nazi occupied Germany...because what we're living with now doesn't compare to what the Nazis did to the Jews. But how long before enough people are willing to give up their civil liberties for a false sense of security, one generation, maybe two?
sara at January 31, 2012 12:31 PM
"And please don't jump on me for drawing the correlation between the USA and Nazi occupied Germany" they were far more circumspect at first. Any regime that slams the iron fist closed really fast misses. The only real difference is that the US is NOT selecting a specific group. Which is probably the only reason this won't devolve into what happened there. Commy Russia is a far more likely scenario. The huge government dependent entitled class, the hatred of success and the feeling that those who can owe those who don't want to.
Just to point out my favorite hobby horse: Both regimes banned private gun ownership before they started to squeeze civil liberties for real.
vlad at January 31, 2012 12:59 PM
sara: "nazi" stands for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Literally, National Socialist German Worker's Party.
"Large segments of the Party staunchly supported its official socialist, revolutionary, and anti-capitalist positions and expected both a social and economic revolution upon the Party gaining power in Germany in 1933." - Wiki cite of Joseph W. Bendersky's "A concise history of Nazi Germany".
Seen any socialism lately? We're on the way.
And every generation thinks it cannot happen to them.
Radwaste at January 31, 2012 2:20 PM
"Airplane travel is a privilege, not a right. If you don't like being molested, then just travel another way!"
Well, except that we have to exclude trains, subways and buses as well.
"TSA officials like to point out that the acronym stands for Transportation Security Administration, not the Airport Security Administration."
Sue at January 31, 2012 3:31 PM
There has been federal court cases all of the way to the US supreme court on the searches at airports. The courts found that the only way that air travel could work is to give access to every passenger to very security sensitive areas like the inside of an airplane.
The courts have never rules it allowable to use those types of screens on court houses, trains, subways, buses or any other public place.
It is illegal for the TSA or any other government agent to require anything more than paying the fare to enter a train or bus.
Art at January 31, 2012 5:38 PM
"If the trained dog alerts to the $10,000 in cash in your luggage, the police take it, and under RICO, you are required to prove it is income from a legitimate source. "
It's the post-modern version of the Kingston Trio's "MTA".
Cousin Dave at January 31, 2012 7:10 PM
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of the TSA. But I repeat myself.
- Mark Twain, a Biography - paraphrased for today
Assholio at January 31, 2012 8:56 PM
You just realized that, didja? It's on page 2 of the SF-171: Are you a moron? Then it says on the next line, if you answered no, don't bother turning the form in.
mpetrie98 at January 31, 2012 9:11 PM
Searching people when they exit the train only sounds stupid if you start with the premise that the TSA's purpose is to stop terrorism - it is not.
The appropriate analogy for the TSA's relationship with the rest of America is that of prison guard and prisoner. Prisoners may be searched at all times, their movements may be restricted at the choosing of the guards and the inmates may not question authority - to do so brings at the minimum the interruption of transit at the cost of hours. Naturally, the extra-judicial punishment may be scaled from there, personal effects searched, cavities inspected, etc.
Of course, this same analysis fits the relationship between student and administration - students are searched without cause, punished for trivial infractions, locked-down in facilities as needed for security reasons, and so on.
I'd argue that in fact most of modern Official America is guided by two models: the prison system, and the military; patterns of administration from the former, the morals and ethics of the latter. A perfect medium for fascistic corruption everywhere...
JSinAZ at February 1, 2012 2:56 AM
What?
"the morals and ethics of the latter"?
Wow. You sit in comfort because of the price others pay and you say this about them.
If you haven't mis-stated your position, and I haven't read it wrong, you're an entitled scumbag who has only learned about service in the dark with popcorn in your lap.
Just like the Commander-in-Chief.
Radwaste at February 1, 2012 3:13 AM
"morals and the ethics of the latter"
The military is made for killing people and breaking things. It excels at bringing force on target, and applying high-speed explosive leverage upon request.
It executes policy that others create (which is a very good thing).
It is absolutely terrible about admitting mistakes.
Team cohesion is primary - teammates absolutely need to act on order and depend on one another for absolute support.
It has no need to listen to their enemy beyond what is necessary to get the mission accomplished - the enemy is not their "constituency".
I don't like my police to act like military. Regular use of no-knock raids, explosive devices and automatic weapons - and the regular exusing of collateral damage by the officials in charge, do not promote the image of Peace Officer as part of the community.
I am their constiuency, and bad police abetted by fellow officers because of their team dynamics is a very familiar story.
I don't want the TSA to think they are the prison guards of America, and the citizens are the inmates. In particular I don't want them to feel that because they have a set of work rules (rules of engagement) that they have carte blanche once that low bar has been passed to treat citizens like prisoners.
Lastly, for the comparison to BHO - f*** you, pal. Also, f*** you for the allusion to armchair chickenhawking, douchebag.
JSinAZ at February 1, 2012 4:14 AM
As I put in comments over on FB:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g206/dburkhead/blueshirts.jpg
"T^H S A"
"This time the shirts are blue."
David L. Burkhead at February 1, 2012 7:57 AM
The military is actually one of the more honest and ethical agencies in gov, when they stick to their military mission. But your second comment clarified things a bit. What you are worried is the military have a totally different mission and ethics than the police, and if you mix the 2, either by having the military acting like police, or the police acting like military, then you have big trouble. If that is your point, then I agree.
richard40 at February 1, 2012 3:08 PM
"Lastly, for the comparison to BHO - f*** you, pal. Also, f*** you for the allusion to armchair chickenhawking, douchebag."
I hope you feel better, because coming from you that means nothing at all.
Others know what duty means, and that's enough.
Radwaste at February 1, 2012 7:08 PM
"Others know what duty means, and that's enough."
Trite, and crap. I have a duty to my family, my country and my acquired obligations.
As you know precisely squat about me, your feeble criticism has precisely zero bite.
Others my may or may not be full of crap, but you certainly are, pecksniff.
JSinAZ at February 1, 2012 7:59 PM
Ooooh. I am SO hurt.
But you have impugned people you clearly know nothing about other than what you have read in the papers or seen in movies, and your idea of "duty" won't mean burying a friend or stepping in front of bullets for them.
Duty means that you run toward the problem, not away from it, without even thinking about whether you should. Instead, you're repeating "my". It's all about you, not the others you have promised to serve and serve with. Thus, the only reaction you could have to my presentation: "trite, and crap". Yeah, you know what duty is - not in the least.
I bet you don't even go to church if the A/C isn't working.
Radwaste at February 4, 2012 4:55 PM
By the way, "pecksniff" is apparently of your own definition. Pecksniffian means "hypocritically and unctuously affecting benevolence or high moral principles".
No hypocrite here. I'm former USN, on SSBN627 and SSN681.
You're welcome. Well, I'd say that if your thanks was important. It's just nice, not mandatory, as I consider service of some kind to be the payment I owe the country. Those who can't or don't serve need at least to be alert citizens, or what they have will be taken from them by others who vote but carry no burden.
There's a moral burden for you. If you don't want atom bombs to fly from a submarine like mine, you probably need to put the right people in office, too.
Radwaste at February 4, 2012 5:04 PM
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