How To Criminalize Being A Boy
Jonathan Rauch and others have written about how, if you take away a boy's toy weapons, he will make a gun out of a finger or a carrot.
This is because boys are wired to love transportation toys and toys of war. Put two PC-parent-raised toddlers in a room with a toy-chest and the girl will likely pull the doll out of the chest and the boy will pull out the truck. Not every time, but most times.
Well, in the latest in hysterical responses to Newtown and weapons in general, a first-grade boy has been suspended for pointing a finger at someone and saying "Pow!"
There's little information on this in news reports. From the MSNBC piece (a link Lisa Simeone just sent me):
"Generally, in an incident involving the behavior of our younger students, we will make sure that the student and his family are well-informed of any behavior that needs to change and understand the consequences if the behavior does not change," said Montgomery County Public Schools spokesman Dana Tofig in a statement.
The finger I want to raise to Dana is my middle one.
It's hard to imagine, or should be hard to imagine, any adult, and any adult in a school supervisory position, making such statements over a finger gun.
When these things happen, and yes, it's all too often, I wonder where are the lawyers of Montgomery County that supposedly have some pro bono time they need to fill, and some sort of ethical obligation to the public for not rising up about this crap and riding Dana Tofig out on a rail, tarred, and feathered. This would appear to be even more the case these days when I hear about all the young lawyers unable to find work.
Why aren't they filing pro bono lawsuits from their mother's basements?
(And I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but it's certainly what I would do were I a lawyer without a job.)
jerry at January 3, 2013 7:21 AM
No complaint with this topic or Amy's conclusion....
But people aren't actually "wired."
Crid [Cridcomment at Gmail] at January 3, 2013 8:31 AM
jerry said: "But people aren't actually 'wired.'"
It's called the central nervous system, and it's been around for some time now. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.
tom at January 3, 2013 9:04 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/01/03/how_to_criminal.html#comment-3540167">comment from Crid [Cridcomment at Gmail]I'll explain for the terminology-pickers: Boys and girls tend to show these preferences even when all effort is made to raise them in a (gag) "genderless" way. This suggests these preferences are biologically driven and not caused by Mattel.
Amy Alkon at January 3, 2013 9:04 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/01/03/how_to_criminal.html#comment-3540168">comment from tomThanks, Tom - your comment got in there slightly before mine it seems.
And it was actually Crid who said that, not Jerry.
Amy Alkon at January 3, 2013 9:05 AM
I had a very similar situation before Christmas. My ten year old, who has never been a discipline problem at school, was suspended for drawing a picture or men with guns. He had to be evaluated over two sessions by a psychiatrist before he could return (today). He also must continue counseling, until the psychiatrist believes he doesn't need it.
The psychiatrist, to his credit, saw my son as a normal boy within ten minutes of meeting him. He sees no long term counseling.
My son has a strong advocate (me).
Folks, this is real and it is growing. They are soon going to start classifying normal boy behavior as "abnormal." Oh, wait, I forgot about ADD/ADHD.
RTP at January 3, 2013 9:15 AM
It's not just the boys - although the consequences are less severe on the other end.
For girls with PC parents, I've heard of pushing/complaining/etc if the kid doesn't like sciencey toys but prefers dolls & kitchen sets.
Shannon M. Howell at January 3, 2013 9:31 AM
Fuckers. Every last one of 'em. The emasculating is now starting at age 6. What bullshit.
Ima teach my 5-year great-nephew and his sister how to shoot elastic bands using one hand. Ya hold the elastic band in the crook of your pinky finger, see, fold the pinky in, stretch the elastic band across the inside of the palm of your hand, over the thumb, stretch out your pointer finger (YEAH LIKE A GUN) and put the other end of the elastic band on the tip of it. To fire, you open up your pinky finger. POW!!
Feckin idjits.
Flynne at January 3, 2013 9:35 AM
My nephew was removed from school for having in his possession a copy of Death Notes, which is part of an anime series called N*a*ruto. They wouldn't allow him to return until he was cleared by a psych eval. As we left the building that day, we strolled past the school library display featuring anime, which included many books in the Naruto series, including a copy of Death Notes.
The psych who did the eval told me he sees this regularly. The schools are very anxious to make sure they protect themselves from any liability.
Most of my experience with the school during the time my nephew lived with me was frustrating. I have never seen so much estrogen-laden, ineffectual hand-wringing in my life.
Meloni at January 3, 2013 10:35 AM
RTP: "He had to be evaluated over two sessions by a psychiatrist before he could return (today). He also must continue counseling, until the psychiatrist believes he doesn't need it... The psychiatrist, to his credit, saw my son as a normal boy within ten minutes of meeting him."
Just curious: If the psychiatrist sees your son as a normal boy, why does he believe your son needs to continue counseling? What characteristics of your normal boy do they find undesirable and seek to change through counseling?
Ken R at January 3, 2013 10:57 AM
Ken R,
He wants him tested for ADD/ADHD. Seems my son can’t sit still or sit through a four hour block of instruction without losing attention. He sits in his desk at 8:30 and doesn’t have an early recess break. He sits until lunch, 12:30. At ten years old.
Must be something wrong with the kid. I mean, what ten year old can’t sit with rapt attention and listen to a teacher for four hours?
They only let two grades in the play yard at a time and fourth graders don’t get their time until lunch. Then, back into the seats for the remainder of the day.
I can’t pull him from the school because the ex insists the boys stay in the school and as long as one part stamps her foot, nothing changes (joint legal custody).
The kicker? It’s a private school and I’m forking over thousands a year to have my kids put through this mess.
RTP at January 3, 2013 11:25 AM
It's not just young boys and girls who are wired. I've found a lot of young men and women wired as well. I turn on the light of my basement, and there they are.
jerry at January 3, 2013 11:27 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/01/03/how_to_criminal.html#comment-3540285">comment from jerryIt's not just young boys and girls who are wired. I've found a lot of young men and women wired as well. I turn on the light of my basement, and there they are.
Man after my own sense of humor. My editorial assistant has to remind me that I always use jokes about people being locked in a basement. My mind just naturally goes there. And to jailhouse humor, etc.
Amy Alkon at January 3, 2013 12:21 PM
> I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.
Kitten, it ain't copper. There's enough neurological tragedy in my family for me to know that it ain't sheathed in rubber, and enough stubbornness to know that it ain't readily reconfigured with a soldering iron, an extension cord, or a dimmer switch. The underlying technology isn't merely 200 (±) years old, but closer to 700 million. A house will sit patiently with its connections exposed for as long as repairs might require, while an animal form will not; and the latter will require continuing nutritional support throughout the network until the unit is surrendered....
And on and on and on. But other than that, yeah, sure... Wiring is the perfect metaphor for the immortal soul.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 3, 2013 12:39 PM
See, I worry that Amy has greater attachment to tart metaphors than to the genuine biology. The WTH thing has been dragged out hundreds of times. And then there was the business with the "glowing technicolor splotches."
It's the theme of the post, right? Can't let ourselves get carried away....
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 3, 2013 1:12 PM
Crid, if YOU can come up with a better metaphor than "wiring", do it. If not, close your mouth and stop letting the stupid out.
Robert at January 3, 2013 2:28 PM
No metaphor required—
"Created."
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 3, 2013 3:14 PM
Jerry, if you don't think children are wired, you have never had children. I have two of each gender. Give a girl a truck, and she'll wrap it in a blanket. Give a boy a stick, and it becomes a gun.
Eric at January 3, 2013 6:27 PM
Sorry, Crid, not Jerry. Oops.
Eric Schulzke at January 3, 2013 6:29 PM
Back in the 80's, there was a horrible accident, in our county, where a Police Officer entered a darkened apartment. A young boy emerged from the shadows, and pointed his toy pistol - the cop shot the boy dead. The tragedy, being fresh in our minds, caused us to be sure a toy pistol was never given to Tim . I can't tell you how many times, on his own, he would chew his piece of toast into the shape of a .45, and take 'shots' at any stranger that came near. That's how boys roll . . . .
Burns at January 3, 2013 6:35 PM
re: people aren't actually wired.
Hmmm, seems last time someone tried to explain that to the LGBT crowd they were charged with a hate crime.
Ari Tai at January 3, 2013 6:40 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.
NorwegianBlue at January 3, 2013 6:42 PM
I played with trucks more than dolls when I was a kid. One of my good friends used to take apart the family clocks to see how they worked. She was unable to put them back together again, so her dad, an engineer, gave up in frustration and bought her a clear cased clock so she could see it work.
One of my best presents as an 11 year old was a chemistry set for Christmas.
Both of us are hetrosexual with children, so I am really not sure what a preference for technical mechanical toys says about girls, other than our brains may be organized differently. We were both good at math, and science.
Isab at January 3, 2013 6:47 PM
This is another daily WTF? story.
That a 6 year old has to see a shrink for this? I wonder what they would do about Hunter Spanjer when he signs his name?
Jim P. at January 3, 2013 6:49 PM
This is the point where everyone who ever spoke the word "Redneck" meaning "Dumb" can shut up and sit down in the back of the room. Grown ups are talking.
Borepatch at January 3, 2013 6:52 PM
"Both of us are hetrosexual with children, so I am really not sure what a preference for technical mechanical toys says about girls, other than our brains may be organized differently. "
There's plenty of room for individual variation in the bell curve. Let me run a question by you, though. I've known a lot of female engineers and programmers, and I've observed that many of them came from broken homes or otherwise grew up in difficult family circumstances. If I may: does this apply to you?
Cousin Dave at January 3, 2013 7:00 PM
What if he had been talking about being in a gun competition or talking about shooting his Dad's AR-15. Would that be grounds for suspension?
I was 7 or 8 when I was being taught how to fire a .22 in our backyard.
Do I need to see a psychiatrist or psychologist for that?
Jim P. at January 3, 2013 7:01 PM
Public schools should be abolished immediately. Vouchers and/or home schools should take their place.
You have NO way to move from school to school at the moment except to relinquish your tax dollars that you pay for that school.
They should be abolished.
dude at January 3, 2013 7:01 PM
The behaviors go deeper than people imagine. When scientists unloaded a bunch of toys in a chimpanzee compound the males played with male toys and the females with the female toys.
The left has feminized the society to the point where it is literally a crime to act like a boy. What happens next is we are invaded and overrun by a more masculine culture. Both sexes have their place and when you refuse to allow men to live up to their role as protectors you assure that something else will eventually come along and supplant your own culture or country.
Voluble at January 3, 2013 7:05 PM
Question: In non-flyover country, which loathes the U.S. Constitution, what do you say to an active shooter?
Answer: Nothing or anything, it doesn't matter, the Active Shooter will keep shooting. Much death will ensue.
Question: In Flyover Country, which loves the U.S. Constitution, what do you say to an active shooter?
Answer: Bang! If you are a good shot, the Active Shooter is down. Much life will ensue.
Robert Winkler Burke at January 3, 2013 7:05 PM
In the future, the barbarians who show up to conquer us will just have to bring caffeine, nicotine, and red meat.
I, for one, will welcome them.
Patrick Carroll at January 3, 2013 7:20 PM
It's time that the government school system diversify its teaching staff. While great strides have have made in reducing racial discrimination, school systems are islands of gender apartheid. We are celebrating the swearing in of 20 female senators. I doubt you'd find 20 male teachers in the school system of any county school system.
LWGII at January 3, 2013 7:37 PM
Homeschool, folks. It works. It ain't easy, but it works.
HillbillyGeek at January 3, 2013 7:49 PM
I couldn't sit still for a 4-hour block in school.
Not because I have ADD or whatever but because I have an A+ IQ. Every teacher I ever had before College bored me within 10 minutes.
The principal and I finally agreed that I could read quietly while "listening with 1 ear." It saved everyone face.
At least I didn't have to see a psychologist or be put on Ritalin (the magic cure for all that ails a 9 year-old boy).
Now a Professor at January 3, 2013 7:54 PM
Whenever I see stories like this it reminds me of a 5th grade writing assignment I turned in that involved a Marine wiping out an encampment of Japanese. Not only was I not suspended, but I got to read the story to the whole school over the intercom. My how times have changed.
Arnold at January 3, 2013 7:55 PM
I think half our drawings through middle school involved stick figures with guns. Heck, in high school people'd drive to school with guns in the racks in their pickups -- and I remember someone bringing a BB gun into school for some physics demonstration.
I also remember BB gun fights with friends in the hayloft of a barn. We all wore glasses, so we already had eye protection, and jeans and a sweatshirt could stop a BB with nothing but a sting. And I remember playing "cops and robbers" and "cowboys and Indians" and "WWII commandos" (I specifically remember my cousins, brother, and I being on a mission to kill Hitler -- he was in an outbuilding on our farm, apparently) and having BB guns that were replicas of real firearms.
Burns -- why didn't you teach your boy that he's to NEVER point a toy gun at anyone not involved in the game and NEVER to touch a real gun? Seems a better approach than forbidding him a harmless toy -- and would cover circumstances at other peoples' homes.
Rob Crawford at January 3, 2013 8:12 PM
I do not loan out my good tools or prized possessions to untrustworthy people. Why in hell would you let proven failures screw your kid's life up several hours each day???
It looks like my young grandson will be home schooled. I would support it with my last dime to keep the little guy away from public schools.
Tom Casey at January 3, 2013 8:21 PM
The solution is to starve the public schools to death. They are ruining our children. Pull the kids out. Home school them or send them to a private or parochial school. In the meantime, we should try to take the schools back but that will take a couple generations. Then persuade your right- or liberatarian-leaning children to become teachers. And not join the union, if that's possible. Or at least subvert it if you are forced to join.
Anna D at January 3, 2013 8:22 PM
My wife and I homeschool our three sons and one daughter. Our oldest is about to embark on college, and has been accepted to two nice schools so far. His younger brothers are great science students, his sister a gifted writer. All love books and words, all are gentle and kind, and volunteer in our church food-bank.
And yet, each boy has a firearm of his own. My daughter will have one as well. Each is safe around firearms and comfortable/competent with them. Two were once excellent BB gun team competitors.
I would trust my sons to defend their mother and siblings with a firearm if the situation arose (daughter not ready yet). Or they could use the assorted swords, axes, bows, etc. that they have accumulated.
They exemplify much of the Chivalric code. The way we teach, and raise, children is the issue. The weapon is a tool and nothing more.
My children are in no danger of expulsion from their homeschool! It is hard, but it is worth every bit of effort.
Edwin Leap, MD
Edwin Leap at January 3, 2013 8:23 PM
I have a son about to turn 13. When he was about 7 he and his 3 year old brother decided they were going to play "War" in the living room. The older one let the little one know that since he was bigger he was going to be the Americans. He then asked his little brother who he wanted to be "...The Nazis or the Mexicans?"
chuckie at January 3, 2013 8:42 PM
Generally speaking, I agree that boys will play with male oriented toys and girls will play with female oriented toys. The pronounced tendency for schools to try to neuter little boys and make them act like girls has ramifications that will spool out for decades.
I have a 15 year old son who loves shooting, spent over 6 months begging for a 12 gauge shotgun to go hunting with, and has displayed distinct heterosexual tendencies - yet is absolutely wonderful with little children.
My 9 year old daughter is a girly girl, complete with purple/pinkish bedroom walls and barbie dolls - yet she is intensely interested in learning how to field strip my model 1911 .45ACP.
Both sexes are capable of a range of behaviors and interests normally associated with the opposite sex - and it is completely healthy and generally 'normal' as people are not a product of a cookie cutter operation.
But at the same time it's important that they are allowed to develop those interests in their own time in a supportive environment - and with appropriate role models to imprint from.
Adults shouldn't try to 'mold' them to be a certain way as that ends up causing more problems than it ostensibly solves....which is exactly what this whole PC crap is trying to do.
Scottch at January 3, 2013 8:45 PM
@Cousin Dave.
No, I did not grow up in a broken home, but I was an only child with an older father. My father was 43 when I was born, and when I was young, he was often ill from injuries and diseases acquired in the South Pacific.
Both my mother and father had siblings who were Engineers.
I had to learn how to do many things for myself because my mother was too girly, and my father was not strong enough to do them for me.
My friend, who I referred to earlier, was the youngest of three children, strong Catholic family, and also not a broken home. She was in the first class of women to graduate from West Point.
Isab at January 3, 2013 8:57 PM
maybe you could send a note with little Joey telling his teacher in no uncertain terms that little Joey is in fact a boy, and that in the normal day to day activities if he is discriminated against on the basis of gender, then lawsuits will be forthcoming. Maybe have it counter signed by the family lawyer just as an added kicker.
I mean as long as the faculty is going to be a bunch of hand wringing, risk adverse, cowards, might as well work that angle.
papertiger at January 3, 2013 8:58 PM
Pete Townsend, Roger Daltry & Co. Saw this coming in the 60's www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_eSW6D6sc
jdkchem at January 3, 2013 9:00 PM
See, Amy? This is how is starts... People get so attached to their superfashionable, mullet-haircut metaphors that they lose track of the topic. (And the rhetors.)
> if you don't think children are wired
I only ever saw one man take a wire out of a child... He was an orthodontist, and he was the same guy who'd put it in. It was only for a couple years. He did it for money. Nowadays they probably do braces with Bluetooth or something.
> you have never had children.
I try not to gloat... But people, most often parents, make that difficult.
> Well, that escalated quickly.
Taking a principled position often does. But I like doing it for other reasons! I swear! Rilly!
Youse guys should be grateful that I come around to extinguish your silliness... There's something about my daring, throttle-to-Hell sweep towards the shoreline that you find intimidating and showy... So the words of gratitude never come. But I'm just trying to help in the fastest and most effective manner possible.
C'mon. Embrace me. One Cridmo per lifetime, and I won't be here forever.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at January 3, 2013 9:01 PM
Hey Amy— There's fresh news about those "glowing technicolor splotches."
The "glowing technicolor splotches of color," I mean.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at January 3, 2013 9:12 PM
The ancient Greeks knew better - http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=791
John Davies at January 3, 2013 9:15 PM
These types of things are happening everywhere and with more frequency. It should not be a surprise. What do we expect when our entire public school system nation wide is controlled almost entirely by women, liberal women. And Until the men, real men not emasculated liberal girly men, get back into the school system and get the power back these idiotic episodes will continue.
Rick at January 3, 2013 9:26 PM
In this vein, a friend's son had the the same thing almost happen when he wrote an essay wanting a gun for Christmas so he could go deer hunting with his dad.
His teacher, being new to Texas, tried to get the boy evaluated. The principal and the parents put an end to it.
Austin at January 3, 2013 9:52 PM
"Both of us are hetrosexual with children . . ."
I try to always be heterosexual with children, so as not to shock them too much. If I'm with adults, I can be whatever strikes my fancy at the time.
bobby b at January 3, 2013 10:13 PM
I don't want to say you're missing the point here, because I'm sympathetic to your opinion, but what do you suppose the consideration would have been, had a girl aimed her finger and said "bang"? Wouldn't she have gotten about the same, plus some empty-headed genderizing?
Girls get (largely peer-)discouraged from taking up shooting sports, but the ones who do are damned good at it. There may even be some natural advantage (although I'm unwilling to press the point). Take a look at the NCAA Rifle rosters.
Here's the thing: the kids' finger-pistol is a lifesaver. When I coach young shooters how to keep their finger off the trigger, the clearest way is to have them assume the finger-gun position as they put hand to firearm. The finger then naturally goes alongside the action, not inside the trigger guard. And they all know how to do it, because they have practiced it.
Take away this vital piece of childhood, and there will be many more negligent discharges. Dear colleague: I am a teacher, too. Get out of my field. You're teaching airy theory that you don't understand. I'm dealing with life and death.
comatus at January 3, 2013 11:14 PM
This can be solved by one word= Vouchers.
The Public School system is an indoctrination milieu for socialists. Put the power back in the hands of parents to pick their children's value systems.
don fulano at January 3, 2013 11:28 PM
As an attorney, I would sue the teacher for intentional infliction of emotional harm.
Dave at January 4, 2013 2:48 AM
I still remember one thing about my kindergarten. In the mid-1970s it must have been one of the early ones banning toy guns. We used short planks of wood from the building blocks instead, of course, leading to so many children getting hit with them that the teachers would tell us to use our fingers. Progress I suppose when the fingers are banned.
Doubting Rich at January 4, 2013 2:50 AM
When I was a kid I innocently turned in a horror-style essay about (imaging myself as an adult) murdering and burying my wife. The teacher was so impressed with how well-written it was she gave it something like 95% or so and read it to the class as an example of how to write well, citing several of the writing techniques I had used. Nobody thought anything odd of the topic. Times have indeed changed. If I wrote that today, I shudder to think what would happen. This whole business is sick, it's just another manifestation of a creeping attitude of fascism running amok in society.
Lobster at January 4, 2013 3:46 AM
The explanation for this disaster is simple. We have an education system that, from top to bottom, is dominated by unrestrained women who, for their own convenience, treat all boys as being defective girls.
If fixing that defective state known as "boyness" means medicating or stigmatizing the boy, then so be it; at least until the teachers' unions succeed in getting classroom sizes of zero.
Mark at January 4, 2013 3:48 AM
Jerry said - But people aren't actually "wired."
There is a growing body of research that shows boys and girls are really different.
http://www.whygendermatters.com/
Steve at January 4, 2013 5:20 AM
I am already training my five grandsons in the handling and use of guns. I started off with plastic toy guns, of course. They get to shoot the BB gun under close supervision from time to time. The older ones, 8 & 9 have shot the .22 rifle. I got one a bow for Christmas.
I guess my g'boys will be raised in the new counterculture. I hope it drives the guardians of the new norm right off their rocker.
Mike Mahoney at January 4, 2013 5:29 AM
There are plenty of women with engineering and science talents who come by it naturally, just as there are plenty of guys with artistic or verbal talents. We have this thing called genetics, and it means you need traits running through both sexes....
As Sr. Juana de la Cruz said, Aristotle would have understood more about how nature works if he'd spent any time in a kitchen. Most of the traditional "feminine" tasks require plenty of engineering skills. My mother's formidable spatial manipulation abilities allow her to pack enough food to fill the back of a station wagon into the freezer side of her refrigerator. You can't buy groceries wisely without math. Etc., etc., etc.
We now return to the sensible bits of the argument -- ie, boys really really love pretend guns, whereas girls usually just have "pow" as a lesser part of their play.
Maureen at January 4, 2013 6:27 AM
> Etc., etc., etc.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except that kitchen experience almost never counts for as much as advanced trig when they're hiring for aerospace.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 4, 2013 6:36 AM
Wow, Mike Mahoney. Take 30 bonus point for the Sor. Juana reference.
netmarcos at January 4, 2013 7:05 AM
Why are Catholics so proud of being mundane?
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 4, 2013 7:52 AM
Hmm ... now that the precedent's been established for that school district, never again shall a teacher or staff point their finger at a child, right? I mean, it might be a threat! (But to make this stick, the parents would have to train the kids to report such "incidents", wouldn't they?!) Could be done, and couldn't happen to a more-deserving bunch!
Alan at January 4, 2013 8:36 AM
"C'mon. Embrace me. One Cridmo per lifetime, and I won't be here forever."
I knew there was a silver lining here somewhere.
With your typically brilliant writing style (and I know you just stopped reading this), one short visit to a site on fallacies would actually make you invincible. Until then, your continued insistence on treating some statements as absolutes robs you of real merit.
To recap: no one has said that every boy favors weapons. Actual examination shows that the bulk do. Formerly, Amy did not insist that two gay parents are always better than heteros, but some are, and most beat the majority of single parents. In both these cases, your own position fails specifically because you've embraced fallacies. Go look.
Radwaste at January 4, 2013 9:01 AM
I am reminded of a scene from back in the '70's when I lived down the street from some sort of peace'n'granola commune where all the adults dressed in white with funky turbans. Their children could dress like normal kids, and the group made for perfectly decent neighbors. One day as I walked past their house the kids were playing in the front yard. Ignored were the plastic shopping carts and other benign toys lying around, and here were two boys crouching around a tree yelling "Pow! Pow!" They were holding toy guns -- made out of twisted coat hangers. In Canada, mind you. Heh. It was ever thus.
Winefred at January 4, 2013 9:40 AM
Scottch: "Both sexes are capable of a range of behaviors and interests normally associated with the opposite sex - and it is completely healthy and generally 'normal' as people are not a product of a cookie cutter operation."
A cookie cutter operation - that's just what the public school system is designed to be. They process children in age segregated batches according to a recipe.
Ken R at January 4, 2013 9:54 AM
> To recap: no one has said that every boy favors
> weapons.
Sugarbun: I never said they did, but we all admire the way your super-butch titty muscles ripple so tautly under your knit golf shirt as you say "fallacies" over and over and over again. It's convincing!
Seriously... Masculine.
(Shimmy & shake for us? Just a little? Hey c'mon, it's the weekend... If you're not going to offer links or quotes to sustain your bitchsqueals, you should entertain us in some fleshy way.)
Meanwhile, we hope you're keep up-to-date on the headlines and broader perspectives regarding the energy sector.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 4, 2013 10:19 AM
I hate to sound like a misogynist, but there simply aren't enough men in teaching. There are far too many women making decisions that resemble the response of junior officers I saw in the Navy.
The newly minted officers don't know much about how things work, but they are hyper-sensitive toward anything they perceive as a challenge to their authority. After they've moved up a couple grades over a few years, they they tend to chill out.
I was reading about my former junior high where discipline and achievement problems have resulted in the school department mulling closing down the school, after three female principals in three years failed to make a dent in the problems. There's only one male teacher on the staff, in his 60s. When I was at that school, the principal, vice principal and over half the teachers were male, and the place was stuffed with baby boomers, but there were few disciplinary problems, all handled in-house.
The feminization of education is, I believe, the direct result of excluding male teachers and promoting authoritarian female administrators who don't seem to mellow out over time. It's going to take a massive influx of male influence to reverse the process.
Lorenzo at January 4, 2013 12:14 PM
Nice try dodging, Crid, but this isn't about me.
Radwaste at January 4, 2013 12:36 PM
"The psych who did the eval told me he sees this regularly. The schools are very anxious to make sure they protect themselves from any liability."
So this is all a charming ritual to keep lawyers away, somewhat like sacrificing the occasional virgin to prevent volcanic eruptions?
Vader at January 4, 2013 12:51 PM
> Nice try dodging
MAKE A CASE. Don't say 'you said this' or 'that was a fallacy' without quotations and/or LINKS. Because no one knows, or cares, what words could (!) have struck you as so grievously wrong. I certainly don't. No one will do your reading for you. I certainly won't.
Linky-loodle. Hypertext markup. This is a series of interconnected data-processing resources, and it's right in the name: Internet! And disk space is crazy cheap nowadays, so you can say what you need say. There are four reasons I think you won't.
#1. You're flat wrong.
#2. You're weak at conveying abstraction, and probably at comprehending it.
#3. You seem to enjoy being the wounded puppy more than dashing greyhound.
#4. You're still wrong, just like in #1, and you probably know it.
Raddy, just saying your feelings are hurt isn't merely just kind of embarrassing for others, OK? It's DULL. We each have a heart full of drama, and yours is not remarkable.
'K now?
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at January 4, 2013 1:22 PM
Well, Isab, barring Cousin Daves theory, which I have noticed though not enough to consider it a major correlation, do you have more aggressive tendencies such as outspokenness and sex drive in comparision to most of the other women in your life?
Higher amounts of testosterone in women seems to correlate with job in hard science
lujlp at January 4, 2013 2:40 PM
It's hard to imagine, or should be hard to imagine, any adult, and any adult in a school supervisory position, making such statements over a finger gun.
Then you must not have much contact with adults in school supervisory positions. I'm a Boy Scout leader. We wear uniforms that include neckerchiefs whose ends are held together by slides. Once a young man made a slide out of an expended shotgun shell by cutting a hole in the side of the shell and passing the ends through it and then out the open end. He was accused of having brought a weapon into the school. When I questioned this, I was told (with a straight face, mind you) that if kids saw this they'd get confused and figure it was O.K. to bring guns and live ammunition into school.
RonF at January 4, 2013 2:40 PM
Seems my son can’t sit still or sit through a four hour block of instruction without losing attention. At 10 years old.
Neither can I, and I'm 60. In fact, when I take training classes in Cisco router and switch technology the instructor makes sure to give us a 10 minute break every 90 minutes max, if not sooner.
RonF at January 4, 2013 2:44 PM
One of my best presents as an 11 year old was a chemistry set for Christmas.
Me too. But when I went to buy my own kid one I found out that you can't - all the good stuff has been taken out of them.
Take away this vital piece of childhood, and there will be many more negligent discharges.
Take away negligent discharges and there would be far fewer children. I seem to recall that about 42% of all childbirths last year were to unmarried women?
RonF at January 4, 2013 2:47 PM
When I was about 5, we had neighborhood nuclear wars. We blew up the entire planet several times a day.
Cousin Dave at January 4, 2013 2:56 PM
And Issb, thanks for the info. I've never been sure if there was any significance to my observation or not. It was just something that I noticed.
Cousin Dave at January 4, 2013 3:01 PM
I've heard a Navy story that a newly minted J.G. arrived for his command and showed up in a compartment with a Senior Chief, a Chief and multiple other enlisted and started throwing his rank around. They duct taped him to the overhead. The skipper and several other officers showed up looking for him. None of them said anything. After the other officers left the skipper asked where to look for him. The SC pointed up. The skipper just said "Don't leave him up there too long." and left.
The J.G. became one of the best officers on the boat.
Lorenzo,
I don't know your history, age or background. The reason that there are so few male teachers, and few that will go into it is because there was a Childhood Sexual Abuse (CSA) "crisis" in the the 80's and slightly into the 90's. The most famous was the McMartin preschool case.
There were multiple men prosecuted on flimsy if not perjurious evidence and convicted. To this day I refuse to be the only person watching a single child or two children under 12.
There are a lot of men out there that have the same "history" or knowledge.
Jim P. at January 4, 2013 8:46 PM
To recap: no one has said that every boy favors weapons. Actual examination shows that the bulk do. Formerly, Amy did not insist that two gay parents are always better than heteros, but some are, and most beat the majority of single parents. In both these cases, your own position fails specifically because you've embraced fallacies. Go look.
Look right here in his thread for the difference between what you're arguing and what has been shown and asserted.
It's not about me.
It's you. In that, you should be delighted, at least for the opportunity to improve yourself.
I don't have to attempt minimization through the use of diminutives, countercharges or redirection for this.
As to the topic, I suppose there is an attention deficit problem here somewhere, too.
M'kay? {---- added to demonstrate lack of content in protest.
Radwaste at January 4, 2013 9:10 PM
Actually, Amy, that this happened in Montgomery County, Maryland, does not surprise me. Montgomery County is rather liberal in ALL their thinking.
I used to live there and am certainly glad that I do not any more (the taxes got to be way too high, so I left)
Charles at January 4, 2013 9:18 PM
No cites, no example, just 'trust me, you made a mistake back there.' But I don't trust you, and because you can't be specific, there are now three distinct parties who will never care enough to go back and figure out who put ants in your pants:
> To recap: no one has said that every> boy favors weapons.
I said nothing about the topic: My complaint was with an aging metaphor that serves no insight.
Thanks for stopping by. Next time, you needn't feign grievance, and I'll not pretend you might have good cause.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at January 4, 2013 9:50 PM
"maybe you could send a note with little Joey telling his teacher in no uncertain terms that little Joey is in fact a boy, and that in the normal day to day activities if he is discriminated against on the basis of gender, then lawsuits will be forthcoming. Maybe have it counter signed by the family lawyer just as an added kicker."
This is brilliant. Has anyone actually tried it?
Kev at January 5, 2013 1:09 AM
This is because boys are wired to love transportation toys and toys of war.
Mention of "Saving Private Ryan" reminded me that this is a difference as well.
My sister called me one day and asked if she could stop by my apartment. When she got there, she was obviously distressed.
Seems she'd just been to see SPR at the theater, and was having trouble. I lived nearby, and she needed to just sit for a while. She was almost in shock.
"Have you seen it?"
"No."
"The first five minutes... I, I, almost had to walk out, they were so.. so.. so.. That was just.. "
"Yeah, Omaha Beach was a bitch."
"I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU HADN'T SEEN IT??!!" (in a very accusing tone and stance.)
Unix-Jedi at January 5, 2013 6:18 AM
Now, per my above, I hadn't seen it. But I had certainly read a lot of D-Day. Watched a lot of other movies.
In fact, a major critisim I have of SPR is that on that day of _all days we have ever had_, we needed to make up a story?
Bullshit. There was no need to "fictionalize" or "based on real life" anything.
In the movie, the Omaha scene is shocking - but short. I explained to my sister that the first guys landed at about 6 AM. But people didn't really start moving off the beach until 11. 15 minutes of that are bad. Imagine 5 hours of it.
That, I understand, you can't really do, and you have to shorten the time. But I've met many whose understanding of WWII is basically SPR and Memphis Belle, and they have *no concept* of what those men did that day. (Like my sister.)
(I also saw "Apollo 13" in the theater. Leaving, I was behind some Teenyboppers. "Sheah, right, like that could EVAH have happened." "I know, like, had one of them died or something, it would have been more realistic". Honest, true, promise. I, and the rest of the older people just looked at them in shock. )
But the difference in culture and gender - I knew _a lot_ about D-Day. Granted, I was a WWII buff, but I bet that most males have SOME understanding of most major battles if you ask them - that's what they pay attention to in history. Not so much the girls.
It's in my experience a real difference - as with anything else - not universal.
But the overall difference is dropping dramatically as men flee/are pushed/excluded from teaching.
Still, my cousin visited unexpectedly once. Her 10 year old was bored, as 10 year old boys are wont to be, so I went into my spare bedroom and told him to follow me. I showed him my M1 Garand, K98 Mauser, M1 Carbine, and .303 Enfield, and he lit up like a christmas tree.
My cousin told me later that he now considers me his "favorite cousin" and wants to come shooting, since I have "All the guns of 'Call of Duty'"!
He's also diagnosed with ADD, because he "can't concentrate"....
Yeah, he didn't have any trouble telling his dad all about the ammo for each of those that he'd never seen before, or their actions or....
Unix-Jedi at January 5, 2013 6:34 AM
"Seems my son can’t sit still or sit through a four hour block of instruction without losing attention. At 10 years old."
Is it only boys who lose attention over 4 hours? I'm sure even girls would tend to lose attention. And even if they had attention, probably they would perform poorer in the tests than the boys especially if it is something involving heavy logic like maths or physics.
Redrajesh at January 5, 2013 7:18 AM
"Seems my son can’t sit still or sit through a four hour block of instruction without losing attention."
Hell, I don't know any adults that can, and that includes myself. Sitting and being a passive receiver of information is draining.
Cousin Dave at January 5, 2013 8:54 AM
Well when I was in the USAF the standard for tech schools was between 60 and 75 minutes and then a 10 minute break. Only rarely has my attention span been retained to the point I wouldn't be looking at my watch at the 55 minute mark.
Jim P. at January 5, 2013 8:56 AM
The comments about boys getting disciplined for just drawing a person with a gun is even more bizarre. I can already see it, what would happen if the kids parent was a cop or a soldier, or who went hunting with their dad. Instead of being able to proudly draw his own parent, he has to be ashamed. Somebody needs to take down these anti gun school fascists. A student bringing a gun to school is one thing, but getting busted for drawing a gun, or playing gun with your hand, that is insane.
richard40 at January 5, 2013 1:23 PM
I think the ultimate goal is to stigmatize guns and gun ownership. These are gun control fascists, as richard40 points out. If you can't ban it (2nd Amendment), the next best thing is to brainwash the next generation into treating guns like some kind of infectious disease or something, as if guns are shameful horrible things to have. Same mentality with that newspaper that published the names and addresses of gun owners - purely an attempt to stigmatize gun ownership. The best counter-response is not to shrink away as if guns are something shameful (they're not) but to buy more guns, and promote guns ever more openly as normal.
Lobster at January 5, 2013 5:06 PM
When I was in a small-town school in the 50s-60s, a significant number of the HS kids who drove/rode to school in private cars had fishing or hunting gear (including shotgun and/or rifle) in their trunks. They fished or hunted before and/or after school, and their families ate the results. This was well-known, fully-accepted and caused no problems. The practice wasn't considered any different than keeping some baskets in the trunk, so the car's occupants could pick wild berries or apples on the way home. Both practices extended to teachers, too.
momof4 at January 6, 2013 8:47 AM
Psychological and educational studies suggest that the average student can focus for no more than about 20 minutes at a time.
The best teachers that I ever had, knew this and planned their lessons, and classroom work accordingly.
Needless to say, very few classes are structured this way anymore, because it is a lot of work for the instructor. Instead, most high schools have gone to block scheduling, which wastes a lot of time, as students drift into hybernation for the last hour of a two hour class, but teachers unions "love" the block schedule.
My son found plenty to keep him busy in class other than school work. Aced the tests, but flunked the homework by not doing it. Top ten percent on the SAT, bottom 25 percent of the class.
Isab at January 6, 2013 9:12 PM
Some people seriously need to get a life. Kids play, that's what they do. Will the PC liberals not be happy until we turn all the boys into girls?
Matthew at April 18, 2013 6:07 PM
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